Mentions:

Hi, I tested your map and I want to say that I found

1. Make the noob filter easier by moving the blocks to the left by 1 block or place the spike 1 block lower
2. Design bug
3. Speed-up not specified in the design and also add ht on the right.
4. missing ht
5. missing ht
6. remove 2 blocks and add 2 blocks on the right
7. All the skips are on this part
8. an uncomfortable part and difficult
9. Add a block on the wall. You can also skip unfreeze . And u can put a tee on an edge kill, and skip a part using a speed fly.
10. On this part, both can go to the top
11. Make more space here
12. Here you can jump with a dj and do a freeze jump and do it solo.
13. Add a platform and redo the last part

Huge thanks to your feedback. I agree with all of your statements except 10. For me the normal way is easier and you save more time to do the normal than this one.

Fixed everything that mentioned above, except 10. Thanks to Flaundie's feedback . Also optimized mapres

ohh forgot to update 11

made more space here

It looks like unfreeze has freeze on it

Happened with almost every unfreeze which is close to freeze corners

Missing mark probably

Feels buggy to me

Missing corners

Missing unfreeze tile in design

Corner missing

Cool simple design

Thanks for your time to test map in design bugs. I fixed everything that was mentioned above

Nitpicking probably, hookthrough has freeze corners on it

Not sure about, probably missing freeze here xD

Looks like missing freeze here because of autorule, easy to fix just by filling 64x64 freeze tile

Double checked map just in case and didn't found anything

Cool map

Corner final boss🗣️🗣️🗣️

FIxed

delete some tiles

add ./spec

Fixed this design bug

1. more unfreeze
2. its very high :c. you could lower it by 2-5 tiles down.
3. idk if stacking on the head like this is the strat but its kinda lame =(.
4. weird having freeze at the roof when performing a throw.
5. weird throw
6. you can just skip whole part with a tower. the swing is also kinda bait
7. part itself is confusing and we didnt figure out what to do.
8. very tight but cool idea
9. skip here 2. just spec and unspec
10. bad setup for the corner guy.

11. very tight
12. repetitive

In general, this map needs a lot of improvements. Some parts were unfun and very repetitive (and many parts came up again). Like the swing and the other hammer for more speed, which was used for 3 of the parts. The filler parts were nice, and you are really good at connecting parts. IMO, this map should be reworked a lot. It has potential, but it is nowhere near finished. The map was very hard. I think this would fit more with an unfaily parts and faily fillers concept.

Design: the entity design is peak, I love it. But the design itself needs improving. "IMO" I can not deside how you want the map to look. It's very hard to see the freeze, and the blocks behind the player look odd with the sky background.

It could be nicer to have black around the map so it feels more like a cave.

About the design: there are different types of heavy contrast on tiles that don't matter for the gameplay while the contrast for tiles that actually matter is quite low so it's hard to focus on the actual gameplay when playing without entities, it doesn't feel like you have considered this while making the design. also the para x and y values of the clouds and stars are wild (usually para x and y should be the same + stars should have lower values than clouds since they are much further away), there are also too many clouds far too outside of the map,

I agree with pro gaming on the gameplay itself

i forgot to say, this map is somewhat not made for t0 but some parts look like they are made so that you can push through them in t0, so the basic concept doesn't make sense to me. i like some ideas in this map, it still feels like a fresh map, not sure what to do with it.

yeah I agree. this map is very cramped for t0 and to hard to be funny for 2-4p

For me it's pretty close to a decline. I think you should either make the map more t0 friendly or rework it to be more enjoyable in 2p. I didn't really like the use of the speedups on the two parts. To me they didn't improve them but rather made them confusing. Also swinging into a hammerboost felt a bit overused. 🫠 They were still fun mostly but I think some more diversity would make it much more enjoyable.

Also trying to see all freeze in design hurts your eyes.

Thank you all for your feedback. I would try to do more t0 friendly

Hello. What you mean by t0 friendly? I look at parts and in for me it's good for t0. If it's possible can you please show or explain what exactly you think should be reworked. Actually, almost every part already has a t0 path where a player can just shorten the distance with the help of people who have already passed ( maybe it's bad?

)

1. more unfreeze [✅ ]
2. its very high :c. you could lower it by 2-5 tiles down. [✅ ]
3. idk if stacking on the head like this is the strat but its kinda lame =(. [❌ ]
4. weird having freeze at the roof when performing a throw. [✅ ]
5. weird throw [✅ ]
6. you can just skip whole part with a tower. the swing is also kinda bait [✅ ] 7.part itself is confusing and we didnt figure out what to do. [❌ ]
7. very tight but cool idea [🙏 ]
8. skip here 2. just spec and unspec [✅ ]
9. bad setup for the corner guy. [❌ ]
10. very tight [✅ ]
11. repetitive [✅ ]

Fixed [✅ ] Probably fixed [🙏 ] I disagree or I don't get your point [❌ ]

3.I think it funny trying to get on head, it's also unfaily filler, you can easily go back, save and try again also is not that hard. 7.I get what you mean, but my intention for some parts was actually to make players spend a bit of time understanding the trick 10.Sorry I don't understand your point. Can you explain please?

"Some parts were unfun and very repetitive (and many parts came up again) . Like the swing and the other hammer for more speed, which was used for 3 of the parts. " [The swing and hammer boost is the main mechanic of this map. I tried to make it fun and spread these parts out across the whole map so it doesn't get boring and gives the player some variety]

"The map was very hard. I think this would fit more with an unfaily parts and faily fillers concept." [Maybe, but I tried to make this map for t0, and I want to go in this direction. Many parts aren't actually faily. I might be wrong, but I tried to make every fail feel fair]

"But the design itself needs improving. "IMO" I can not deside how you want the map to look. It's very hard to see the freeze..." [Fair point, I added some contrast, If it's still not enough, I'll rework it or come up with something else]

I fully understand it's not enough yet. I haven't fixed some of the t0 stuff that bananebulous mentioned. I will wait for the answer and fix it again. Thanks again for your testing and for your time

tested a few days ago and for 3 we thought the tower on edge was rng also, but then we tried throw with late hook and hes edge everytime

so its just skissue

this part super jank tho should def raise this wall 1 tile

this looks like that part u posted before except easier, which imo isnt as cool now and too easy for the map making the whole save space on bottom useless

the balance in these two paths kinda awild, on the top theres somewhat interesting fly and below it most basic stronghold aled which skips too much in comparison, aled should be buffed or removed

Agree, I will make it as I made it before , a bit harder with save platforms in the bottom

and for design ideally bg blocks would have no border, but its good enough if u reduce opacity and put some opaque filler

^ feedback above

Basically, many parts is very tight for more people. No where to wait. Try to make your whole map bigger and more space if you want it to be t0. You need to remake some of your parts. Many use the same tech for example 3-4(I don't remember) swing and hammer parts. And some setups where bad. I can say wich if you want :D.You need to go through your map very closely and give alot more space for more people.

Okay, but I think parts like in image should have less space. Also, yes it would be great if you show which parts should be reworked

Yes the kog parts could stay the same tbh. Maybe some little changes in the difficulty

But the parts itself is very tight yk

Could you point out which specific sections feel too tight?

I can join game later today and show you :D. Its a Swedish tradition(midsommar) and got guests atm :D

Oh Happy Midsommar 🇸🇪, we can check it out later. Have fun!

Design bug, I fixed it but send with major update later

I think it would be great if this part could be slightly buffed, compared to the second gores part, this one seems noticeably easier to handle

These parts felt somewhat repetitive to me, as they seem to rely mostly on throw - hook - hammer and throw - hammer mechanics

Right part felt just a touch easier than the left one to me

I think it would be cool if right part could be a little buffed^^

I am ready now if you join me :D

Sorry I have some plans now

Idk how well I'll be able to explain it but I'll try.

So in my opinion not great for t0:

1. Confusing layout, looks like a small maze. Why is the top path which you have to follow blocked off with freeze initially? If there are more than two players inside the part they'll be blocking each other since there is no good space to wait.
2. Again a bit confusing with the part going back and forth. Some people won't understand what's going on while the first ones are already rushing through the part. Inside the part there is basically only space for one player on either side.
3. Similar to 1 & 2, part looks pretty cramped. T0 won't give you a lot of advantage since there are kill tiles and if you fall on the bottom right you are dead anyways.

In my opinion more suitable for t0:

4. Clear direction for the part. Lots of space for multiple people below.
5. This is a mini part but same principle still applies.
6. Clear direction. A lot of open, usable space. No going back and forth so the next pair of tees can follow right after.

I hope this makes sense. Of course there is some leeway with the layout or direction while building the part but this should make it more clear. (Screenshots from the older version but from what I saw that still applies.)

And as always if you have more questions feel free to ask them. ^^

now cat said all my points hehe

. but the thing I want to add is

for example this throw is very tight for the one ontop. you easily throw to the roof.

if you can extend this up

this is just 1 example for the whole map

you can give alot more space on the hh parts. you can ofc have sections where its more tight but overall the map will flow much better and the map will improve alot ^^

getting this guy here is also a bit annoying. you want the both to swing at the same time but one needs to wait. very annoying to fly up again just to redo the part

and the mechanic aswell is repeated alot under the whole map. would be fun to get something diffrent and refreshing ^^

and for example this swing

is pointless and just confusing imo cus you need to stop down anyways when you think you need to keep the speed

but overall I find this map to have alot of potential and I really like the fillers and the entity design ^^

One player should stop another one should have a lot of speed to get boost

I think the swing hammer boost would be great idea

I dont get my part mb hehe

yes the swing itself is very cool. its just meh to set it up and to go back and repeat it if you fail yk

It would be better if I add some hook tile to go back to try again? One can stand in his place while another one would take this swing and than boost

maybe :D. imo many of the parts itself would flow much better if it where some teles on map

but its your choise :D

To be honest, I thought it would be much dirtier than the map looks now. But I really appreciate that you spent so much time on my map. I will also try to make all parts as 'easy to start over' as possible

yeah its your choise :D. just happy to help

Big thanks for this guide, I will try to optimize and delete some ways . To keep filler and parts clear

Some small gameplay feedback from me as well:

1. I don't think anyone would enjoy doing this, maybe with some hookthrough on the right it would be ok.
2. Why play in t0 if there are places where you just drop to the void anyways? Add a platform. :)
3. Just a bad spot for a killtile. It just slows down the progress without offering anything. I marked two other spots where you could place some kill without it getting in the way.

I'd also appreciate if you only upload changes once you are fully done with everything to prevent people from giving you the same feedback twice. ^^

Okay, thank you guys again

2.I added a platform on the right. Inside, there is only enough space for one player on each side, that's true. However, anyone who doesn't want to do this part can just go up and wait. Alternatively, once someone finishes on the left, they can save the others from that side too. For me, this part is flexible, and to be honest, I don't see what needs to be fixed here. It's a Kog part, so everyone should understand that they need to slow down a bit to give each player enough space to move.[Images 4 to 6] (I only made 3 scenarios because you can add as many colors(players) as you want to each of them).

I can also add more space for waiting if it's really necessary. But in my view, even if there are 20+ tees, they can do this part easily: those who want to do the part can just wait on the platform beforehand, and those who want to skip it can go up. Sorry, but I really don't see a problem here.

3. I added platfom for save tees and delete kill tile in the upper path to have space for players . I think it is fine with open space and new platform below, because if we imagine a scenario with 4 players, it works like this:[Image 1]: The perfect run. [Image 2]: When one player fails, another one can help him. Even if that player also fails, you can repeat this as many times as you have players.

I agree this part is much tighter than the others, but that's by design. I wanted to create a tight space section [Image 3] just to mix up the GP a bit.You can also save everyone if just one player takes the upper path while everyone else goes below. And the other way around

Thanks for the feedback. This is really good explanation, I want to find something usefull for T0 maps, and this one is a really great. Also thank you, I will try to do my parts in this way

The right one is filler , and it's pretty faily so I don't want to buff this one

Agree

Fixed

did you change something about the design? as i said the contrasts are quite confusing. maybe also check the guidelines about the design: https://ddnet.org/guidelines/

yes, if I understand you right Now freeze has much more contrast

in screenshot you can see every tile( probably) in design

oh i get that, and it improved, but you didnt fully understand what i meant. the midground tiles look very much like the unhookable tiles and they have a high contrast in itself (they are switching between bright and dark), also the midground tiles have a heavy contrast with the background, so it's still hard to focus on the contrasts that do matter. i suggest to remove the midground tiles, or to make them look more like the background with opacity or/and a different color (might ruin the effect on the logo tho so take care of that)

you could also use a different set of tiles like generic unhookables

didnt experiment for long, but i would suggest something like this + maybe add some para to make it move a little

also you can remove some clouds and maybe add shadows the the top right of your map aswell

I tried a few different ways to implement your ideas in game. In the end I decided to just add a bit more contrast specifically to the unhook tiles, and I think it looks much better now. I also tested the map with my screen brightness turned way down, and it seems perfectly readable to me

there are still so many contrasts

I made the whole map wider. I also reworked some sections to improve the flow and make the setup more comfortable to play. Tried to make design better for everyone. I fixed almost everything that was mentioned above

i agree with welf imho, i think the mg layer should just give a subtle impression of brick texture, so the alpha could be reduced all the way to somewhere between 30-60, down from 160. could also pick a blue color from bg for the filler and reduce saturation/lightness if u think the grey looked boring

also smaller detail but if the gears in center or corner of tile are meant to be snapped, u should enable grid ctrl+g

Okay I definitely should fix it because not only Welf said about it but you too. I fix it later. Thank you guys

fixed mid ground walls🙏

Small design changes

https://klipy.com/gifs/tyler1-yep

I think for now while this rule is not written anywhere ( I haven't found it ). I think it would only be fair if you bring this map again to the testing process

an admin said it exists, i agree that it should be written down somewhere

put it in https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1531775956765638850

Not like this map is gone

Upload it once one is out of testing

What a ridiculous rule.

i think it's more about a discord limitation. 500 channels per server.

we arent even close

there are actually a lot of open tickets in the moderation section 😅 you don't know how close we actually are (idk the numbers either) i know that the 2 maps per mapper rule can be frustrating but i like that it's an incentive for mappers to test their maps on their own. any at least halfway decent map in testing takes a lot of time to test usually, so i like to have some limitation. also for the record i did not decline this map 😅

oh didnt think about tickets

maybe they could work in DM with the bot somehow but yeah