this is your map's testing channel! Post map updates here and remember to follow our mapper rules: https://ddnet.tw/rules

https://ddnet.tw/testmaps/?map=Multihardmap

next map by silex back in multi just to get the hype bcs of the name

https://tenor.com/view/drachenlord-drache-schanze-seriously-serious-gif-21734207

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/211301957023956992/750041254774964254/pig-eating-medium.gif

the copyright guy

i think it will be good if there is a space to afk after pass the nf (easy block after many people afk at ceiling)

ok

full test server. If someone leaves it gets full again pretty soon so full whole time We really want this map. if anyone say something else he dont know what the community want.

I understood multeasymap because multimap was kinda blocky for new steam players, although the guys who mapped it didnt almost played multimap to repect the moves of the original map, design is similar, movement is way different. But what's the excuse to do multihardmap? Community want it? Next will be kobrahardmap? Or when silex or pipou leave this community u will de stronghold and bit reworks? I dont like at all using names of old popular map to make new maps, that's all. It's disrespectful and even more when u see a lot of coments of coke giving himself most of the credit of the popularity of multeasymap xD

here we go again 😄

disrespectful? To keep this map more alive? And of course if the Community wants it? i would enjoy kobrahard? This map no THE WHOLE GAME is from the community to the community? I mean every of your statements explain itself?

Yeah i saw testers asking to change some mapres and tiles cuz were stolen from other map but steal a whole map concept is allowed

why steal? The original mapper was fine to map Multeasymap? Why should anything be stolen here?

so when can we map full-drag map again xd

ik its a stupid question but i like that type of drag map

im pretty sure tpaul had nothing to do with multieasy other than the main "layout"

i wouldnt mind this map getting released

way better than the 1st version of this

i mean if things got stolen to made multeasymap? Then remove the most popular map of all time

its only the "most popular map of all time" cuz the original was so impactful

it got big cuz people already loved it

and 24/7 30players minimum made nobos find it very quickly

i think it's the type of map. for noobs, but long and faily -> challenge. the new multeasymap people don't even know the old multimap. when i show them multimap, they find it crap.

multeasymap is the first map of this kind. other novice maps are not released so hard and faily

so why not a harder version of the most popular map of all time? why should anyone hate this idea? if people are just looking for a place to de-stress then they should go to the gym instead of wasting a chance at something good

map is cool but name should get changed because it has nothing to do with multimap, these are my 2 cents, bye

"if people are just looking for a place to de-stress then they should go to the gym instead of wasting a chance at something good" what

Might be because its much to modern standards of design and spacious. (and much easier ofc)

yes that too

i would agree but this map contains too many parts from multeasymap. if we change the name we would have to change too many parts. this parts/map only exists with this name.

of course it is a different map, but still we have very very many parts of the structure built like in multeasymap. example :

so far there has only been good feedback, i think lagar said the same thing about the old map, but that's ok if he feels that way. still everyone liked the map and recognized multeasymap

if desired, a text like 'inspired by Multimap' could be added to the map. we didn't add it because the parts are mostly different in terms of gameplay and only the structure of multeasymap was taken over

++++

In my eyes resemblance to Multimap is more of a reason to decline than release, even though this one is more like MultiFAT than Multimap if you know what I'm saying. But if we ignore that and look at the map from an objective perspective, parts like these are simply unacceptable in a modern map, and they make up more than half of this map. Some other parts also seem dubious but I'm not gonna write those off without playing all of them first.

Maybe give it a run

Don't need to play pointless tunnels to tell that they're no good. Anything that looks remotely like an actual part I'm not saying anything about yet.

You mean that more than 50% are only hh hf freeze tunnels, can you please mark all in the map that you think are bad?

Of course there are a few, but they don't make up much of the whole map, the end is long and has a few more hh hf things, but there are also many other things there so it becomes a healthy mix 😁

Please see image above for more information, thank you

Only the 7 spots?

There are like 50+ parts in this map

they are pseudo fly parts

what made the hh hf parts in dalbychsipivo special for you? or the hh hf parts in other new t0 maps?

i think a map can have 'boring' hh and hf parts if it contains mostly good parts. and in this map its like 10-15% hh hf sections

short hh transitions are alright but here at least half of the map is 0 effort mapping

What? Did u even played it

And how would u know it lol

And again, 7 out of 50+ not 50%

well I don't, but if you put effort into stuff like this then I feel bad for you

It's about the whole map

Not only the hh hf sections

It's just a little part of the map

just a little half of the map yes

As I said

just keep the good parts and make something better with the good parts and don't force yourself to map 0 effort crap just to loosely fit the shape of multimap

We can, and we put already nice part ideas into this map. But we know also that a little bit chill hh hf is always good

you can make way better "chill hh parts" than whatever this is

Why u are stuck at the little part of the map

why do we want "special" parts? most of the time maps are played without "special" parts. so i think most people want those boring hh hf parts.

I didn't say anything has to be special, those are just really bad

define bad

We can put some random freeze lines like in Dalby haha, maybe u will like it

low standard. so u mean not special enough

In the first version we left out a lot because it seemed too boring, people then said it is a completely different map and you do not recognize multimap more. Now we have the boring parts partly taken over and now we should change them again to something better?

We have made so many parts into something much better and still kept the structure, you just pick out the few parts that we have only slightly changed. Take a look at the whole map first, play the parts until you have found the right ways and then tell us your opinion... Because without having played the map it seems pointless to me

If you are still of the opinion after that, we can talk about what you would change

You reduce the whole map to just these few parts which is sad because there are so many cool parts in this map

I said there are some good parts in there, but sadly just as many really bad ones. Why don't you just drop the whole Multicrap idea and make a good t0 map instead? I don't care if the parts look like Multimap or not, only if they are well mapped, but you chose to give yourself a handicap and it makes the results way worse.

Can u show me the bad parts

We like the idea of making a hard version out of it

Ppl already like the easy version, so we made a hard version

I like the idea of just making good maps

Maybe u think some of the parts bad bcs u don't know the right way or what

There are coming other good t0 maps but we also like this idea

how would I not know the right way of some wonky tunnel with freeze in it?

?

I mean the other 90% of the map

Ik u know how to hh hf

When the test server was full today, no one said anything, everyone just played. After that we have received only positive feedback

Some things were difficult, but when I explained the right way, everything was ok.

you seem to be confusing 10% for 10²/2%

I can also pick the Gores part of behe and say you use the same move 20 times in such boring parts, but I don't do it because people don't care.

U used in most of ur t0 maps boring hh and fly parts but it's ok xd

You must realize that you are complaining about things that you are doing as well.

the difference is in how it's mapped, but I doubt you'll see what I mean

No it's who mapped this

In bit3 there were very very many filler and hh hf parts, you didn't say anything about that either

Knuski and I was thinking it's too much boring stuff and we were wondering that u said nothing 😁

There you seem to act as if you know what people like to play, then on other maps the opinion is completely different

With the map of zweitleben the same, we had to get pipou to decide because you were unable to 😄

but on bit3 it's way better mapped as well, way cleaner mapped and more variety

Some ppl said its too much the same but whatever

I had no problem deciding, it's you who had some problem

But if u think it's mapped well with some freeze lines ok

You can talk about everything normally, and we fix the map too. But you have to learn to express yourself properly, for me it's very rude and disrespectful when someone tells you 50% of your map sucks and they didn't put any effort into it, we put effort into every map we make.

but that is how it looks in this particular map

If you had played the map you would know that it is not like that, and these few hh hf parts take very little part of the whole map

are you trying to convince me that there's some incredible hidden gameplay in these low effort tunnels?

U still stuck at the hh hf parts

It's no fun when you say the same thing over and over again and don't read what I write

how about you read what I write first

You should have understood by now that we can change boring parts, but the map has also really good parts for the most of the time. And I just find it rude to directly say that over half of the map are only such parts, which is clearly not true

$Ready 5

corners

hard versions of classics are completely fine

but since they are classics they also need way more care and efforts, we won't do them twice for a map

and I can agree with Ravie even if he says it in a harsh way

what is there to agree? That there are bad parts? Then he should show them. He does not say anything at all to make it better. That is the whole purpose of a tester.

He did show examples of bad parts

I liked your first version of the map alot more

except the ending

most scandal map

How would u know that we put no effort into it, just bcs we leave some boring parts? Funny that other people think they know. We want to know what you think is low effort, so show us the parts you think are low effort, except for the boring parts we left original

As I said last time ppl cried bcs it was too much new stuff and u can't see multimap structure

I personally know many t0 map attempts and must honestly say that this map is much better than many other t0 maps, from the mapping and from the parts. You almost can't get much more out of the map, I can imagine that some would just take multeasy and change it to a heavy one.... That was way too easy for us, we want a t0 map with cool parts where you still see the multimap structure. This is what we have achieved imo, If someone thinks he could do it better he can send me his version, but I don't think anyone would be able to do it.

ye sry I'll do that once I have time

Then why are you telling me the same thing as ravie? He can't show me any parts that are low effort except for the few things I already know and have already said something about

I think many people don't know how much work it is to turn a bad part into a t0 suitable good part xd

i have a problem with these "bad" parts. what is bad? what means bad? what can we change? or is the problem just the name? it's not about the map, but i've been observing for a long time that "boring" parts don't get a chance. idk why. we made this map just for the community and we've been observing for a long time to find out what most people really like. i know that for many people here some parts are boring. not for me. i like to relax and chill. if the problem is "boring" or "not special" enough, i don't understand why we give "special" maps a chance (30 finishes after a year) and we decline"boring" maps. which are played every day. its the problem "badly mapped parts". then i will gladly accept suggestions for improvement. is the part too tight? too risky? not enough flow? so tell us and we can just change the parts 🙂

U can't create better t0 map than grandma

Already done xd

But u don't know maps little boy

teach me

No thx 😁

im crying

Can you guys stop judging like u are some sort of political ppl that knows everything? and start helping each other by showing what you think is not good and how to improve map towards a release? who tf cares if it has similar name as "multimap" you really care about 2 words? multieasymap has been a banger and ppl liked it more now than old one because its modern and better mapped. I also agree that some hh or hf are long and borring (already told Cøke), but there are also alot of movements and tricks on the map. So instead of just saying stupid "%" that map is bad and cant be release and bla bla, start sending screenshot of your likes or dislikes and what "you think" should be done to improve it.

multieasymap is only popular cause it was pushed so hard onto the new players since steam release that they only know that map exists,all the servers were literally just multieasymap for around a month and when they finally got the choice to change maps the amount of people on those servers make it impossible to change to something else

nobody is forced to play it xD

u can still play multimap if u like it more

maybe u forgot that we made another novice map, its place 3. in the list of most finished maps

I also agree with murpi here,if the name was changed on that version of the map I think it couldve been released already

thats not the point of the map, we know how to map 😄

when multisolomap

I love multimap

Was declined xd

this is what happens when 2 huge ego mappers start to argue

we gladly accept criticism, and we did before the submit, but only if it is factual and normally written

opinions are very different and i have asked ravie to show me everything he thinks is bad, unfortunately he has not done so far. since it's all contradictory, it's hard to figure out what he means.

Can we stop here now about this whole "multimap" nonsense? This channel is for testing purpose not for infinite discussions. There was enough people that made it clearly enough that this name maybe is not the way to go.

If you see something bad tell it. If you have a opinion to tell sure say it and then tell how to make it better. Don't throw out stuff without saying more.

im pretty sure he literally means theese parts

indeed, its (ab)using the popularity of its name , im sure a random mapper doing the same would be denied

i understand the problem with the name. but our intention was never to exploit the popularity. i played a lot of multimap back in the days and observed that this map is not for noobs. multeasymap was supposed to be a easier version of it and multihardmap the heavy one. we are not using the name or the structure to make it "famous". we want to provide the multimap lovers with other difficulties. we thought that since multeasymap was so well received, a hard one would be as well. we will gladly change things, but changing the name completely doesn't make sense. it is a "hard" version for this map. pipou showed the right way to make a hard multimap with exatly same structur, so we agree with a namechange to mult0map or multihhmap.

when multihardmapFAT

well honestly i think you should just take the good parts here and make a normal map instead of basing everything on multimap. cool idea and all, but having the map be a cast of multimap really limits how fun it can be especially since some parts feel forced to the layout of multimap (which isnt even a good map in the first place)

for example, at the start we already have some problems:

noobfilter is kinda long, long noobfilters aren't very good to have in t0 maps. additionally, the speeders in the noobfilter seem out of place

in my opinion, the start here is very blocky for t0

the flow here doesn't feel correct, you have a long stretch of hh/hf into a sudden easy stopper part

it just doesnt feel correct and i think its cuz the map is based on the multimap layout

not saying the map is necessarily bad, but that it could just be a lot better if its not based on multimap

imagine if some random mapper uploaded this, i feel like it would get a decline quite quickly

anyways thats my 2 cents, from a mapping perspective this isn't a good t0 map, but from a player perspective i can see people enjoying playing a "hard version" of multimap

thx for feedback

, we went already with pipou through the map and fixed some parts

its for the solo way (about the speedups)

u mean the freezelines there?

idk we were thinking (and saw it already) little bit brainy is much better then just freeze with hookable at the ground

at the first time ppl dont know how to go easy and fast up there

yeah i mean the part is good i think the placement is just weird

also that part is in Freezeless lol

idk which version is first tho'

oh yes u right

i don't know, we looked at the original part for a while and thought about what to do, then just mapped a few things and this was the coolest one

changed the start a bit, we dont know about the stopper part, if its a big problem we can just remove it

beginning hh hf part already changed too

$change name Mult0map

added less blocky start section

reworked the stopper part

reworked the 'boring' hf a bit

thanks to

for the new amazing kills

are there 2 tiles space? thats incredibly hard with the kill tile under there and going back looks even harder. this isnt an insane map xd

hm idk, was trying it couple times and it feels not that hard to hit the hole

looks like a pseudo part from the pic but ima go check it out ingame

cant force everyone to pseudo

same situation in a 2h+ run xd?

i would definitely make way more space

ok will try

hmmm

wait xd

didnt see the hookable

xD

xd

thought everyone needs to fly through

wtf no xD

ok then im fine with it xd

nice u found the easy slow way 😄

what is that cursor 😭 this aint osu

that aint even an osu cursor bozo

idk it be looking like one

im not an osu player

some little changes

changed the stopper part again

maybe the name Multikillmap fits better now

Holy moly

aka pipa aka baguette on fire 🔥

0_0

Mult😮map

Or mult🥱map?

mult:omegalul:map

Mult😈map

when Mult

map ?

Hi, i tested gameplay it with Mikro, map could be nice t0 hh map, some parts are very interesting, i enjoyed playing it and im pretty sure would fit perfect as new hh map! wish release +

wheres the corner of this unfreeze

and also this corners are weird

nOOO

noob

, no1 can win me finding corners

ill like if u put in the map something like u did whit pipou like thanks to PapotaV for the corners

Thx

there is no problem

use the newest ddnet version and disable modern OpenGL, because I see on your screens that the tiles are not in the right position

wdym

as i said

i have that opengl cause some crashes my pc

some maps

*

reworked rocket solo

reworked stopper part, its now a solo way and a 2p way

reworked this part

• some more little changes thx to

changed this part a bit

made it a solo part now

Really cool map cannot wait to play it! I'd like the name to be multihardmap, dosnt really make sense why thats not possible

agreed

same

multiveryveryhardmap bcs multimap 1 star oldschool

https://tenor.com/view/sad-pablo-lonely-alone-gif-12928789

$ready 4

$released

sry

didnt work 😦

should be ready now !

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-waiting-still-waiting-gif-13052487

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-jakethedog-adventuretime-idunno-idk-gif-7391243

$ready 1

xd later people complain about maps, but they don’t test them to give a properly feedback

True story

This is normal and unfortunately happens very often because people do not know what a test server is

I don't know exactly why I am kept waiting so long, actually the map is already ready for release

But progress is being made in the tester team, 3 maps are ready by a person other than me, I haven't checked them yet but still 😅

when release

https://tenor.com/view/coffee-ok-but-first-coffee-hot-gif-15847992

$optimize

$ready 4

$ready 4

$ready 4

$ready 4

$rеѕеt 4

$1MoreAnnoyingGif 4

hi

https://tenor.com/view/anime-girl-hi-hello-wave-gif-17416714

Hi souly

https://tenor.com/view/mario-smg4-supermarioglitchy4-gif-24311015

how is this map released? 😂

What’s wrong with it?

🤔

Didn't even see it

shouldn't have release it under that name, that's for sure

that's basically like mapping a map with completly different gameplay but same design and chaning only 1 letter of the name - because the mapname gets the hype

Adr0naline

Adr6naline

this map should be reworked or deleted, its really not enjoyable to play with those random killtiles scouted around whole map. it doesnt make it harder or anything its just makes the map more unenjoyable and just feels like the killtiles only placed down to make the boring parts more annoying and to put some "action" in them. theres 0 balance between the parts some parts are so easy other parts meanwhile you can completely fail a bigger t0 team too. no wonder why noone has finished this map so far

also it got nothing to do with multimap and its definitely not 4*

^

when exanimus was released and we finally realised that its fucking hard af and unenjoyable we also didnt rework it or delete it

if people are so outraged by the things that are released then they should state their opinions before the map is made ready. there was enough time for it, but changing the map after its already released is kinda weird

i know that many people didnt like the name and all at the beginning of the channel. but that discussion was overshadowed by people saying that they genuinely like the map which made the impression that its worth to release in this state

• admins are generally against changing any map after release (if its not necessary cause of a bug or smth)

but you noticed the layout kinda matches multimap?

There were 2 testers and even other people who criticized the map, and as far as i can tell their feedback was ignored, and the map was made even tighter in some spaces with even more killtiles to create artificial "hard" game play Then map was ignored in testing for few weeks and suddenly its ready? xD Wheres the patience in map testing everyone speaks off? Theres people waiting several months to get their maps looked at but this was rushed to get released

multiple testers and players said this map sucks but it still went thru

its cus coke and pipou formed a coup, murdered all the admins, and have the testing team under hostage pls send help

It seems like if one tester has bad opinion about the map, just private message another and beg them to release it for you!

:D

If different mappers made this map and it had a different name, this would have been declined and theres nothing you can say that would prove otherwise XD

yea as i said xd the discussions were overshadowed and everything else before was ignored

i dont think u can blame anyone for this since the people who criticised it could have said something again

or when it was made ready

but only after the release (more) people want to talk

i assumed it got fixed with all the new uploads as well as when pipou readied

and yeah it's common, lots of ppl trash talk testing when they don't test themselves

or when they have the power to test themselves*

there's always a few controversial maps every few months so i wouldn't worry about it too much

normalise testing maps without super and kill over and over to get an actual feel for how the map will be when it releases👀

Thats when most people experience the map in real racing environment Yeah the map might seem ok while you have super and can try a part 10 times over until you get it right But this feels so uncomfortable to play in big t0 and even in 2p

XD

well (this is sounding like an excuse and it is one) i didnt test exanimus. otherwise i would have declined it

lmao

multiple testers multiple impressions of maps

There was actually almost only good feedback, of course also bad and hate, but it was again the same people who do not like us or the map for whatever reason

We are very open to feedback, of course not if someone just wants to badmouth everything and doesn't even know the map

I agree with Knuski that people should have been more vocal before release. Had I known how many people agree that this map is terrible, I wouldn't have allowed it to be released. I decided to just let things run their course after I gave up on testing this when I noticed dealing with the mapper wasn't going anywhere and not that many people seemed to mind how bad this map is.

Back in time was also only 90% filler, knuski and I was thinking it's rly bad. But we also know ppl like simple nobrain hh

For us it is just one of many maps for the community, not for us

Idk why ppl cry so hard about a map

u make it sound like that i think the map was utter garbage lol. ofc there was insane amount of filler but it had really nice parts too

5years ago testing and todays testing standards are way different is it not

Yes there were good parts but the the main parts only filler hh

If we follow today's standard in hh maps, we have to decline all

Or most of the maps

doesnt that mean that all those maps are bad then or am I missing something? why relax the rules for one type of map but keep strict rules for the other maps

U followed the testing?

I tested with so much ppl, all gave me feedback and I edited so much

In the end it's a very cool map imo, maybe a bit too much kill but whatever

https://tenor.com/view/ok-okay-gokuok-goku-danielrds-gif-20976699

I predicted it

Yeah arrow was thinking about that

its hard to follow testing when 90% is done on the servers where no one sees the chats or in the private testing channel where only the testers can see

Insert testing excuse of "i test what i want when i want to test it because i dont have time to test every single map"

There will be many more maps to come, but since multeasymap was very well received we now have the series complete. I still think that most of the hate comes because of the name (although we have already changed it as requested).

Even people I have helped a lot are now trying to make me look bad, although we have often explained why we have made this map.

Everything said right now was directed at the map, not you, where are we trying to make you look bad? xD

I have been waiting for feedback for a long time, even outside of the test server. But none came. I figured that the few people who don't like the map will take action, including former friends and children I've given a lot to. I am just too nice to people. I should better let it be

I dont really think this map is as bad as everyone makes it out to be or the testers fault,the whole testing structure is whats bothering me

It's the same with all, the bad feedback is always loud

The good feedback very quiet

How is two weeks a long time compared to the time some other mappers have to wait on feedback in their maps??????????

XDDD

Everyone always says such a map would be rejected by "random mappers", but this is not the case. I would have found it very very good and tried to make it as good as possible, whether someone would be able to is the other question.

Why not be more patient and wait for proper feedback instead of rushing testers to ready a map when you dont feel like waiting

As I said, I tested with a lot of ppl

Other ppl maybe just don't ask

I'm always askin for testing my maps

Idk what u mean, I tested with pros and normal player xd

Why should I wait so long when I had long time testing with knuski alone running

when people ask to have their map tested they just get told they shouldnt beg for testing and wait till a tester is ready to test it?

ye testers maps or known mapper maps usually get priority

because they are good and enjoyable to play xd

the ones i see that are in the longest are long maps with some intricate parts or maps that are just short of being good enough for rls

ye

Idc if it's a mapper or known ppl, we stopped testing to see if other tester wake up man xD

well u literally waited like less than a month

maps are in here for half of a year

idk

We have made more maps ready than all together, I think that says it all and that also said why I do not have to wait as long as others who do not do anything

XD

As you can see the others are now becoming more active since we are holding back, which is good but can still be better

I dont think making more maps ready is a positive thing if this is gonna be the outcome each time

We really only want the best for everyone, but if you get cheeky or simply can't behave, you get nothing, because everything is voluntary.

It's just bcs some ppl don't like us for whatever reason

https://tenor.com/view/attention-victim-victim-mindset-victim-mode-irene-choi-gif-15596456

u are a nar

I explained that negative feedback is much louder than positive feedback, so you assume that everything is bad just because some people don't like the map, we had the same experience with the multeasymap playground.

After we removed the rocket bcs some ppl don't like it, ppl who like it came out xd

I dont really know about what we are still discussing about lol. The map is released and we wont/cant change it. The testing system and the testers + leaders have always been hated. So what are we discussing? Or is the discussion over xd?

i feel EXACTLY this way. the entire map is artificially difficult because of the killtiles. it feels like it was originally just mapped to be multeasymap with tons of boring hh parts, and when coke realized it was too easy, just filled it will killtiles

the parts themselves are not hard, imo it's better to just rework to make the parts interesting/nuanced/more difficult gameplay instead of just adding killtiles

Have u ever played it

There is like 10% hh

where can I go complain more about the testing system

and of course coke would rather poke at me instead

We made a simple easy one b4 little dude

if the map truely set out to be "multeasymap but brutal" it would not be released, because ofc the format is not 100% outlined for the kind of map that it is

you could go to forum, discuss in

or write a proposal to the admins. I dont think it will change anything tho

tbh

I think that you do not like me because I ignored you often

have tried to propose a better system but like with map rerating it always gets swept aside and gets worse with more maps getting released

im not sure whether i like you or not influences my criticism

seems a few people agree with me

well the system overall sucks yea cause people could put more effort into it but they arent forced to do so

gotta live with it

You are a beginner and don't understand many parts, play every part and give me proper feedback pls

???????????????

It's just a little group, most of the ppl liked the map lol

third time you would rather poke at me than say anything constructive

im looking at the map now

Ik that u have not played the map

ive played a bit of it, speced the rest

Otherwise u will not say it

We got the best out of the multimap structure and parts imo, of course we can make much better parts. But this is mult0map

do u think that the map is like really bad overall or do u think there are also some nice parts in it?

If you want to know if something is bad or good you should play all parts and try to understand. Just looking is not enough because we test our parts a lot and try to make them as good as possible.

maps is cool just killtiles + name are cringe

Fun fact, we were a bit forced to add more kill

But actually I like it, map looks easy but is hard

inheritly lots of kill tiles + a long map dont go together well. multeasymap, multimap thrive of having tees and ppl work together figure the parts out learn the fundamentals of the game, that spirit got completely lost in this map with the usage of all the kill tiles/faily solos, you cant work together, get punished way hard and too easily for small mistakes.

90%

ok looked again, some of the parts are neatly adapted to a brutal version, other parts are not as easily recognizable and hh between. around half of the parts that are well adapted as brutal parts don't stand out to me, but i understand the limitations of multeasymap layout cause this (keep in mind, i dont think this is against Coke but rather an objective point against the map as a whole. with this kind of map, you can still judge it based on its playability regardless of the mapper's decision making, and we shouldn't view this as a bad thing)

around 33% to 66% of the way through is where the map shines the most. parts are creatively spaced using the skeleton of parts from multeasymap and they dont just feel like hard versions of the original, but instead they're those parts reimagined.

i think the first third of the map is weak in terms of creativity, but again, not a knock against Coke's mapping job, but a limitation of the multeasymap design. the last third of the map is okay but strays too far away from the original for me. the order in which the map presents the parts is a bit strange too, though i understand there was no indication that they were intended to be in order, despite the start of the map being this way.

in the future dude can you just not resort to name calling and accept criticism if you believe it to be incorrect or bad? just let the criticism stand for itself, you are a tester and you should be more mindful of other people

Stop lying just bcs i said i don't like that mapname

Ok we played 90% of the map and failed in a shit part but i can say that i like the map. Except the kill tiles are placed exactly that u cant not fall in it. Thats a pretty difference to Silex Map style where u normally only fail for being dumb. But here u places them where u know people would fall there xD. Or avoiding tower skips by placing kill instead of more freeze is uncool somehow. Good map but should be 5 or 1 insane xd. Cant complain about release cuz i didnt realize testing

we didn't want the many killtiles. it was required of us and we did it.

on an unrelated point but similar to other ppl's point, i agree that it should be rerated. this map is not comparable to other 4 star maps in terms of difficulty, though i could see this being the case if killtiles were removed

that's what i said too. maybe even insane1

exactly who required it? where is the transparency 😅

what you all say. we said it too. no one believed us.

trolls xd

It's ok ppl like it, but other ppl cry hard about of little bit hh hf parts

Failed after 3h at end, would play again

the map would be more fun and in the spirit of multeasymap if there was less faily hh hf though coke. it's not bad that you did it, it's just a departure from why people play multimap in the first place

😅

if people just wanted a harder multimap, they wouldnt want any hh at all, just parts

but you can do anything you like, it's an original map

Kill tiles are only good when starkiller is near them

I mean i literally didnt play any t0 map out of weekend for straight a year so this map seems to have something

I remember how u failed

I think 41% of players die by those killtiles

it's not a bad map, but i think a few areas take too much away from the title for me, i would have personally preferred a map that was equally faily for noobs on multeasymap as it is for experienced players on this map. maybe this is already the case, but it's hard to determine something like this

i died bcs starkiller fell next to me and i was like wtf is he doing now, didnt look at my tee and dead.

Starkillers fail is the reason why we didnt finish

remove starkiller

Killed both of himselfs in the same kill

dont spam map-testing

nice XD

valid statistic

i am not a fan of discussion, so i will not comment further here. we did what we were told. there is a lot wrong in testing. before we all criticise maps in this way, maybe we should do better in testing.✌️

mult2map when

Strange, full server into the week

At night

Xd

careful, you'll alert the corneum

Maybe many more people like the map than are people who don't like it

Im asleep now

no finish until tomorrow evening pls

consider that it's called "Mult0map" and everyone and their brother wants a finish like that, ofc they will play it

What is this statement

It's just pointless at all xd

The bad player have already realised that the map is not easy and many of them can't finish

your point was about a full server, my point is that finishing Mult0map is different than finishing a map like Simple Down. there may be people that don't enjoy playing bit3 but they do it anyway for the finish

its not really a metric of how many people like the map imo

People play what they like, not because they are forced to or want to farm points (most at least)

people play what they like (new maps)

teeworlds players are masochists, i refuse to believe there is not a significant population of players who play difficult maps and don't enjoy them. we have people who beat all ddmax maps as it is

??

Beat ddmax is not hard xd

agree with lynn here, finishing the map first/fast and farming points adds a significant value

oh i didnt say it was hard, just the enjoyment part

Still, I think if everyone hated the map then no one would play it, not even because of the finish.

we don't need to agree

its not as black and white as u make it seem it is, ppl "hate" the amout and placement of kill tiles. doesnt mean they "hate" every aspect of the map

people are going to want to beat "Mult0map" even if it's bad

that's just the reputation of multimap

anyways ill stop clogging the channel, i think i said everything i wanted

Does not matter now, you can not please everyone, otherwise nothing would be released

I think many players at first do this, that’s one of the engagement of the game later, you meet friends and it’s for fun, I’m aware of that bcs I used to be like that

im not saying it should be changed, just saying thats what most ppl critizise

Maybe many people now see that you should take the testing section to heart, feedback before the release is better than after, as I said I tested with a lot of ppl and they gave me feedback.. And we changed/edited parts

We were waiting for more feedback but nobody was here 😅

maybe because they have been conditioned to think that feedback can be pointless when a tester already planned to decline lol

we could take this conversation to

, i guess that's a good channel for it

Feedback is only pointless if you can't tell me what you don't like, many just say crap map.... This helps no one and so I do not pay attention to these people

as long as u understand it, its fine.

map is done now

ppl are less declined to testing, since its such a big map and quite the commitment to test this

i would assume

I enjoyed watching the run of konsti, murpi, starkiller, cireme etc. Overall a thrilling insane t0 map. But the ending seems to be way harder and not t0 compatible, two just failed the tight hook and got deleted by the kill tile. and therefore the team died. That's the only real "problematic" thing I'd say. And also insane 1 rating or so

People who have "something to say" have told us the last part was too boring when it was easier, maybe just take some of the first edits and look how it was in the beginning

it is very sad for me to read this criticism. everything you say we have also said. we have done what was said to us. it is too late for this map now. take care of your testing problem if you want better results.

As I said, we are open to feedback.... But it doesn't help anyone if ppl just say crap map or give your feedback after the release

no one has finished the map, why is it too late? are we this strict about map releases? (genuine question, i dont know the answer)

It's not fair to ppl who made it already through the whole map and failed the last part

Only Re rate

are these people going to be upset if the map has less killtiles? can we just directly ask them?

im not sure how many people have made it that far

In some parts it will change the gameplay, it's not cool to do it after rls

weird question but do you think the amount that can be changed can still reduce the difficulty?

Ofc

Who should be allowed to decide which kill should be removed and which not, it will end the same way.... Everyone has a different opinion

we can at least chat about it, get more input, i think it's barely not too late imo

i took a 1 hr nap and this is still going on nice

it's not too late, perfectly fine to still edit the map if it's gonna mean a better experience for anyone who plays it later, don't think being "unfair" to 4 people who got far is a big deal

in any case, could we make a thread or something to not clog the main channel here? im still pushing for some cleanliness, even if i have a history of not caring about this

But what we do now

get on a discord vc and yell at each other

(im jk)

Ask in

what ppl think of the rating or just rework some of the kills

ye possible for the rating

maybe not about the killtiles, i think that happens here

The voting will come when tester voted only

i think though, deen has expressed wanting to minimize use of

so this may not be possible, even if we decide it's a good idea

just rework the kills, they are nasty and I don't think anyone sane would want to keep them

I didn't notice this until I actually saw people play this map, but the spikes are placed very deliberately to fuck people up, that's just awful

Some like kill others not, parts that were boring in your opinion were changed and now you have nothing to do with anything? Please send screenshots of kills you don't like, I'll look at it

The map was first with a little bit kill and overall easier, we were told it was too boring

but you weren't told to make it unreasonably punishing

As I said, u don't like kill others like kill.. Pipou wanted more and more kill, I'm ok with both but send screens

We just wanted the release and did all what ppl said

there are ways to make more kill without being straight up evil, like in bit maps

Fun fact, most of the kills just decoration xd

have fun figuring out which aren't

Thx for the help again great leader

I was talking from a player's perspective, ofc you know which ones to avoid

From my point of view yes, but I don't know your view and it is often confusing

you know damn well which ones are calculated to mess people up

so remove those

there was a better way to handle this though, as i and others have stated

The opinions of you and pipou were very different, so I would also like to know what pipou said about it. Or whether he does not care

if you are being honest, and they only said it was "too boring" i dont see how we got to "more killtiles"

what's an easy first batch to remove? imo the ones at the walls that punish you from hooking too far, when you cant even spec because it's farther down

It was too boring and too much simple hh hf (imo max. 20% of the map) and its very big

that... all seems reasonable though? like that is what we said and it wasn't fixed, so what is this "testing" problem exactly

We have seen other maps with much more hh hf content

or do you mean after release

probably ones that are in spots where people are very likely to go or throw, also ones that are outside your view distance like under big falls

The problem was that the opinions of people who had something to say were very different and you didn't even know what was good for the map.

agree mostly with the last part, first part would be case-by-case i think

if it's easy to see and easily avoided with an alternative measure, i think it's fine

yeah but for example the first part kinda forces you to throw ridiculously close to one, stuff like that

i think it's good this map was released. it shows us growing pains we're experiencing in the community with testing efforts. we can use this experience to try to do better next time

if we assume what Coke is saying is true

i think the first whole stretch until solo is ridiculous with kt, but maybe only a handful of them are annoying

it's also close to the start, but the filter is larger than most maps like this

so we have to consider that type of balance as well

⬆️

Look at old map files

just wait for konsti to unzooz, he knows and cares

We can Re rate and change some kills, but I think if ppl finished it b4.. It's unfair and not doable

i'll finish b4 rerate

That's no problem 😁

But I won't edit the map after finishs xd

I told you to add something to boring repetitive parts and that kill tiles could be a solution at 1 part especially, nowhere else. I also told you to remove punitive kill tiles

Hard ddmax maps are fun especially when shit

We were more. Also im strictly against changing gameplay after release. It is what it is

Agree with konsti on this one

dang

Are mappers and testers becoming sentient?

Most sensible choice also regarding Konstis concern

I was told the map is loved by everyone during the testing phase and now it isn't 🤔

People just mad cuz they died

Ez map when u play with some decent players and sheep

fakenews, everyone would hate adrenaline

They do

Only masochists like me love adre

was more hyped than any other map of mine

everyone loves adrenaline lol

only the 4 was disliked at first coz too long

+1

I tryharded Adre 4.1 one week straight until i finished, then on the next day 4.2 first try

And then i released it again

and then adre 5 came and pipou made it to a real banger

The problem is also that many novice players believe it's a small increase in difficulty then they join their beloved map series and get deceived by the name of the map as they can't go further than the 1st part

its true that the name is deceiving compared to the difficulty xd

.

08.03.22

just saying

I also offered Coke a solution at what multihard (or whatever the name) could be and what people would believe it to be

stop posting about multmap ☠️ name of map the last thing that matter

Quite the contrary

Especially if it's misleading

Of course you're right and that's why we should change the name, but I still think that such a map would not be normal releasable and we wanted a t0 map with today's standard, it would have to be like Multeasy, just release without anyone knowing 😁

I already tried to change the fun area (I just made the freeze thicker in some places) it was not liked, but many of them were only multeasymap players

We have already changed the name as requested. There were a few choices and this was the best one

It's not a good one

Who cares about name

It's important when the map is popular

And when it's meant to be a sequel

(in a way)

I couldnt care less xd

No one said something about Pulsar releasing a map named Apex While theres already Apex2 on DDNet

I said it's weird

And we talked about it in the tester channel

But if you can not see mistakes and u are only stubborn then it is difficult... + a little power.. you can not do much 😂.

Multimap_rework_but_hard would be better ik

Did I reject your rework which is why you are so mad at me? I mean I helped you a lot which was not long ago and now you're trying again where it goes to troll or annoy me

i just don't like the mapname and i have the same opinion as pipou, what's wrong about saying the truth

Without mult and map there is no map like this

How we already explained

nonsense

Here we are limited to multi

In normal maps not

Simple

😄

I liked the map the way it was at the beginning. A few changes and the name made sense. I knew this map would never have a chance as it was. The criterion that a map must not be boring is too strong. It is always demanded that a map must be special. I will never understand this criterion. I have seen what you have written with Coke. I laughed in the background and said don't do that. It will make the map too hard and faily. I know most players want a boring hh map. Because i am one of those hh stronghold noobs. I like you guys. I trust in your skills. I am not a hateful person. But your testing sucks. You don't know what most people want. The criterion that a map must not be boring has made this map what it is now. Just because a handful of pros want more interesting maps.

i just want a different name

There is no map like this without the name dude

As I said it is not difficult for us to make a much better map, but here we just wanted to make multimap in very heavy because our light one was also so well received, don't tell me it's just blockers.... New finishes are added every day. Meanwhile over 500k. No one is forced to play this map and we never wanted to replace multimap. It is still there and can be played

trolls

600k finishes on multeasy

Also Multeasymap is only so popular because multimap hype is timeless

Nobody is forced

Multimap is still there an can be played

I don't doubt that our map became so popular because of multimap, but if the original one would rather be played then it would be online or not? Again we never wanted to replace multimap but just make a light version of it as it was requested.

If there had been a good rework beforehand we would not have had to do it

We had seen at some point that there were a few attempts to create a rework, but none made it to a release

there was a big internal discussion about it fyi

if this was told why was the map released in its current state, noone checked through the map after the "fixes"?

Of course the map was checked, it was the mapper's choice in the end as "everyone likes the map and can't wait to play it as it is"

ano is doing this bcs he hates me now

bcs i stopped releasing oldschool for a clear reason

no its not the case here

dont talk about the past

i have checked the map so often

with so much ppl

waited for feedback nobody was here

xd

i went through the map and collected the troll, unnecesarely annoying , way too punishing killtiles

second last not xd

u can only reach it if u rly wanna die

He said it was fine despite our opinion. If it was only about me, there would barely be any map released

i already asked in tester channel what to do now, only re rate or re rate and edit a bit

idc acutally

if ppl are happy when we remove some kills its ok for us

1. that killtile is actually way too easy to hit someone in its just so annoying
2. This repetative part ends with that 1 killtile at end way to troll. just killtiles spammed everywhere not really creative or making it hard
3. This whole part requires good movement and troll killtiles placed everywhere, the avarage t0 enjoyer player dont really have a good keyboard or atleast good movement, its way too annoying
4. Its so easy to swing into that killtile
5. This whole part would be better but also would remain hard if killtiles would be removed
6. This is just nonsense killtile part is already hard in 2p, it really shouldnt be there
7. if its a full fail anyways if someone falls, why punish them with kill

8. same here also as 7th pic, its fail anyways its just way too punishing
9. again a swing troll killtile
10. and this is just very wrong the part is annoying anyways

have u seen the old versions?

1.-3. way too much punishing killtiles

i can remove some as i said but i dont like lame tower

elevate the freeze

to 3 or 4 blocks

and you dont need to use killtiles then

and the gores part filled with killtiles is the most punishing part on map

especially the kill on the left wall

it could be a good and enjoyable map

just with less killtiles

but will it end the same like in the past

if we change other ppl come and cry

nobody knows

im really sure more people would be happy and actually play this map more with less killtiles

in this current state this map could be even a very high 5 brutal or even insane 1

and i dont think you would want this map to be insane 1* or idk

idc for rating as i said

we rated it brutal 5 or insane 1

if the killtile nerfs would be done it can stay as 4*

i think 5 stars better. even without killtiles it is still very long and faily

also i want to mention the rocket solo is so out of place from the map it feels odd to do another solo, and most of the t0 players dont know how to use rocket well its a big graveyard for them. but this is just my review on the part

I said they shouldn't do faily solos or solos at all

Ye it kinda sucks but atleast the first solo you can get players above who are scared of doing the solo. the rocket swing release is also a bit hard for beginners to understand and to carry out doing

So u think we should delete the part or make it an option to do it solo

?

i dont have a problem with the solo itself, maybe a passage way to get remaining players would be a good idea too

so only 1 or 2 people need to do solo

So add just a noob way in a brutal 5 map

no i didnt say this

its like on the first solo part

I can try it like the first solo

Solo and duo

Alternative ways could be bad, just removing the solos or leaving them but without the solo tiles

We can do this too

We just want that everyone is happy xd

Its a team 0 brutal 5 map. Imo FAILY solo parts shouldnt be allowed at all in t0 maps. There always some bobs who enjoying t0 maps but their personal skill is really bad, their fun ends when they reach solo part and die

So the solution is re rate to insane without changing anything in the map

Or leave it 4 or 5 and make it easier

Yeah it's ok when admins agree

if you want less players to play on your map with this much killtiles and have only like max 50 finishes after a year it can stay same state

They dont like to change maps after release

Whatever nobody even finished it and we are a small game, it's fine to me

i dont think its should be problem to change map in better way especially when there still no finishes

Agreed

Move it to internal then

ye thats fine when theres no finish

Ok

we will take a look at ur screens

btw nobody did the upper way so far

first screen

ye i dont even talk about doing part from up

its from down

idk its the beginning

me myself only hit somebody in that kill 3 times

The solo is totally fine...

Stop that shit

i now just removed solo tiles

Dont change map

but if ppl wish

very suprised nobody finished yet, i havent been able to play it yet. i think maybe the 2'nd solo could be changed to non solo and that would help with getting big teams through the beginning. imo you shouldnt remove alot of kill tiles to make it easier, it seemed really easy when i tested it

People That wish to change the map didnt even play it!

i removed just a hand full

Its easy if u dont play like idiot or try to rush with dummy

pls check the map guys

Dont do it

Damn

ik u like the map as it is konsti, sorry

but i changed not much

I didnt see any voice that wants to have the map changed under any circumstances who actually played it

i played it and actually tested whole map with iku

if you are against changing maps why did you want tough way fixed

why do you want to change it anyways

? you want more people to finish and nerf it? its fun to have maps not being finished right away 🙂

ik and i explaind often that the negative feedback is much louder

its always the same

if u change something in the game or rls a new map there are ppl who hate it or trashtalk it

we just want everyone happy

thats not possible, you really dont need to change it. just need people with brain to play it and it will be finished

look at the new version

as i said aoe

just removed a hand full

you did great job with this

i agree it ruins the "toughness" of the map.

guys pls check the map first

i dont remember all the kill tiles

you should maybe screenshot your changes?

okay

one moment

dont make opinion about the map if you didnt played it on real server, ofc its other feeling on test maps retrying after retrying parts

removed solo

Worst change ever

Did that part first try without watching

honestly removing solo makes that part novice, you should maybe rework that part?

Or just keep solo

Its at start and its ez

That are not the killtiles people die at all

Useless change

testing lead said there shouldnt be any solos what so ever afaik

this one is good change, i dont think the others should be changed

Nonsense

A lot of hard maps have solos in it

unfaily mostly yes

6 years ago i tried last part of Something for 3h at night time

i like the solo but i dont like how close to the start it is, usually faily solos is deep in the map

if you didnt do this swing yet its so easy to swing into it

i never died there

i did it maybe 10 times

Keep map as it is

The only way to get rid of a Shitstorm is to ignore it

Map is released and wont be unreleased

dont do all these changes lol, the map is already released. the only change i like is this https://i.gyazo.com/2fbeaf47ec612448bebd8b70eae8f239.png

So who cares the trashtalk

where are liker when i need it

?

why did you want to fix tough way then

No chots

move the right one little bit up

and more freeze

konsti you probably didnt even do any of these parts just let others do it then they got you

you removed all the adrenaline from playing the map now

now anyone can just play without thinking

:/

you dont need to think , the situation was you fall and you die

theres no thinking to it

thats all

these changes doesnt really affect general gameplay at all its just makes the map more fun and enjoyable for most of the players

Team would have failed without me already lmfao

i like this change too, no need to be punished for having a good swing