#NinjaHack
"NinjaHack" by rhino [Solo]
DDNet 01/02/2022 11:49 AM
@rhino

this is your map's testing channel! Post map updates here and remember to follow our mapper rules: https://ddnet.tw/rules

rhino 01/02/2022 1:58 PM
I.K.U 01/02/2022 2:05 PM

nice map

rhino 01/02/2022 2:06 PM

thanks

texnonik 01/02/2022 4:54 PM

WTF

simdilik nekorul 01/02/2022 4:55 PM

i do not uderstand anything

texnonik 01/02/2022 4:55 PM

with new gameplay mehanics ... is there some new bugs you know ?

rhino 01/02/2022 4:55 PM

or should i upload demo?

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:55 PM

you probably didnt see it

texnonik 01/02/2022 4:55 PM

good video

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:56 PM

if you have max speed with ninja

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:56 PM

you go trough everything

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:56 PM

exept blocks

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:56 PM

the 2nd part i dont understand either

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:56 PM

probably going trough switch tiles

texnonik 01/02/2022 4:57 PM

i knowed that with other way , that no one know , but still :/

rhino 01/02/2022 4:57 PM

i think u means use ninja go up to touch the cp?

rhino 01/02/2022 4:57 PM

yes, go in the stopper

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:58 PM

i gotta see the map ingame

I.K.U 01/02/2022 4:58 PM

and probably could understand it more

rhino 01/02/2022 4:59 PM
I.K.U 01/03/2022 6:17 PM

played trough the map

I.K.U 01/03/2022 6:17 PM

i couldnt do the 1st part

I.K.U 01/03/2022 6:17 PM

and all the other parts were easy af compared to the 1st

I.K.U 01/03/2022 6:18 PM

idk what i did wrong but switch 3 would be turned on if i got switch 2 to activate

cheeser0613 01/03/2022 6:41 PM

from what i saw, this map is playing around the tick skip mechanism (yea its a feature not a bug like what people do in "to the moon") it contain a lot of luck element compare with other skills type of map

cheeser0613 01/03/2022 6:45 PM

i doesnt mean that it need a lot of luck to pass the map what i trying to say is, in this map player have chance to fail the part for no reason, the worst thing is they didnt know why and how to pass the map after wasting a lot of time to figure what skill is needed to pass the map

rhino 01/03/2022 11:28 PM

switch2 in the 1st part comes from ninja's implementation. ninja is 9 times teleport, and only hit 9 points. i tested many position. if u stand on .44/.50, u can skip all switch 3, switch 1 and active switch 2. if u stand on .53/.56, u can skip all switch3, switch 2 and active switch 1. so, it is not tick skip, it just about position. nothing with luck, i maked a puzzle. player must think y close switch 2, and know stopper is bigger than 1 block. and then he finds he can move to right a bit.

rhino 01/03/2022 11:32 PM

and this feature is used in many other maps to skip freeze. i wonder y so that read the code and debug it. and found this.

rhino 01/03/2022 11:36 PM

and ninja get max speed in speeder is ezer than other speeder bug like: the last part of broken brain, upper right corner of rocketIsKey, which use dj to get max speed.

rhino 01/03/2022 11:37 PM

so i think i need to remove the unfreeze.

rhino 01/03/2022 11:39 PM

2th part is ez in low ping, i test it with 50/60ping and hard to do it.

rhino 01/04/2022 12:03 AM

at first, i want if player keeps moving right, he will die. but i failed.

rhino 01/04/2022 12:09 AM

the 1th part is puzzle, all the puzzle have the same situation.

rhino 01/04/2022 2:38 AM

.44 comes from touching left wall. .53 comes from touching right wall.

rhino 01/04/2022 2:38 AM

this map has nothing luck, all the part is about position.

cheeser0613 01/04/2022 2:42 AM

sorry if i have misunderstanding on this

rhino 01/04/2022 2:43 AM

it's ok. 😄

rhino 01/04/2022 2:59 AM

start filter is also about position. if u are not at spawn position, u need to find other position to do it. i think i should make it more obvious, as a tip about position.

rhino 01/04/2022 3:06 AM

this image is more obvious. because position is float, it cant work everywhere. 😄

yāccreフレシュマイボイ 01/04/2022 3:16 AM

replace kill with stopper

rhino 01/04/2022 3:18 AM

that will become too easy

yāccreフレシュマイボイ 01/04/2022 3:19 AM

or this happens to every player

yāccreフレシュマイボイ 01/04/2022 3:19 AM

do you want them to solve the puzzle? or do you want them to quit the map at 1st part

rhino 01/04/2022 3:20 AM

this is player's choise, all the puzzle is.

yāccreフレシュマイボイ 01/04/2022 3:21 AM

well, maybe the tip about position will make it more obvious

yāccreフレシュマイボイ 01/04/2022 3:21 AM

we can see what the others think

rhino 01/04/2022 3:22 AM

i will upload map with tip later.

rhino 01/04/2022 5:00 AM
rhino 01/04/2022 5:02 AM

in fact, RocketIsKey and BrokenBrain have nothing tip. i don't know whether should i give it.

rhino 01/04/2022 5:03 AM

maybe release the first version.

rhino 01/04/2022 11:04 AM

i decide to release the new version.

snail 01/05/2022 9:38 AM

i dont think u should give tip

snail 01/05/2022 9:38 AM

in map

snail 01/05/2022 9:38 AM

if they wanna cheat they can go on youtube there ll probably be a video

rhino 01/05/2022 9:54 AM

i choose to give tip. if player still cant solve the puzzle, they also can go to find video or ask some one passed.

louis 01/12/2022 5:51 AM

its a puzzle map, so i'm not sure why u included the precise jump at the beginning

louis 01/12/2022 5:52 AM

it does take like 5 seconds to go thru as well which is a little annoying

louis 01/12/2022 5:54 AM

what are ur opinions on releasing a ninja/switch puzzle map like this? idk what to call it

rhino 01/12/2022 6:37 AM

the precise jump at the beginning is a tip for the key of solution. i don't want it become too ez to ignore or become too obvious

rhino 01/12/2022 6:37 AM

any advice?

louis 01/12/2022 6:40 AM

i think the problem is u can get it fairly easy with some other random spots and hold d + jump (at least in my experience)

louis 01/12/2022 6:40 AM

u could try making it 2 jumps somehow, or move the spot closer to the freeze

Ravie 01/12/2022 12:09 PM
@louis

doesn't look like something fun to play, just ninja physics abuse, messy entities and 1 tile tubes

rhino 01/12/2022 5:32 PM

can i ask how do u define "abuse"?

rhino 01/12/2022 5:34 PM

no one make a part with ninja's feature before. i make it, so i abuse it?

@Ravie
rhino 01/12/2022 5:35 PM

the things i want to show is the feature of ninja and physics of tiles collision.

rhino 01/12/2022 5:36 PM

newer player can learn something from this map.

rhino 01/12/2022 5:41 PM

for most of the player, they will learn a "useless" feature of ninja, "speedrun useful" tiles collision.

rhino 01/12/2022 5:48 PM

fun is subjective feelings. for myself, the fun is do something with precise operation. it like speedrun. although i am not a speedruner.

rhino 01/12/2022 5:49 PM

that's all. and i dont want to modify my map any more because it may not pass.

Ravie 01/12/2022 5:53 PM

to me cutting tiles counts as physics abuse, other than that this map looks like having to do a random sequence of moves to pass rather than puzzles with clear mechanics that make you think

rhino 01/12/2022 6:01 PM

cutting tiles can be found in brainduck and some other solo map which need ninja to skip freeze. and ninja skip freeze in other maps is more radom than my parts.

rhino 01/12/2022 6:01 PM

they even cant tell u y

rhino 01/12/2022 6:04 PM

i dont think my map have random sequence of move but the move where 2 pixel between freeze and shield

rhino 01/12/2022 6:06 PM

or u means my map "looks like"? it's a misunderstanding of the puzzle. so i give tip.

rhino 01/12/2022 6:16 PM

player can learn y ninja cuting tiles from thinking it is random or not. if u think player cant play in this way, i can only let the map go. and, seems new map "tlqkf" also use cut tiles. i dont think it can let player know y also.

rhino 01/12/2022 6:19 PM

most player(including some tester) misunderstand ninja's cutting tile. thinking it is too fast to skip, so that they are impossible to do cut in a stable way.

rhino 01/12/2022 6:20 PM

i think other maps have much more random sequence of move.

rhino 01/12/2022 6:20 PM

so i don't agree with u

rhino 01/12/2022 6:23 PM

if u say my puzzle is not so much good, i don't refute you. because i am a new mapper.

Ravie 01/12/2022 6:59 PM

I didn't mean random as in random to perform, just that you're expected to know what to do and it's not a good puzzle if you have to use mechanics that you don't know

rhino 01/13/2022 12:20 AM

for me, if the map maker making a puzzle with new feature to make player suck and dont give any tip, it can be thought as a bad puzzle. i try my best to let player find the feature out themselves, but not to suck them.

rhino 01/13/2022 12:22 AM

the puzzle is made with new feature just because the feature can only be set in a puzzle.

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 9:55 PM

When it comes to trying to work out the map it feels like you need a full understanding of exactly how ninja works and all weird bugs that go with it.
Tried for an hour without the video and couldn't do part one. Are the switches really all things someone needs to know about to solve it or do you expect people to just get lucky?

Even with the video it's still quite confusing to me. Personally I don't think it's good for a release, sorry but it is a very impressive map for different reasons.

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 9:56 PM

Perhaps if you taught the player the feature slowly, one trick at a time I'd change my mind but part 1 seems to require 5 precise tricks in a row which I don't think is something good for a puzzle map.

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 10:03 PM

This part was frustrating to try.

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 10:05 PM

Can ninja over this shield and die, part would be better with tp in that one spot.

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 10:07 PM

This part is unreliable, sometimes you go through the stopper and sometimes you don't.
Why is the stopper there? Are you supposed to aim at the perfect angle?

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 10:09 PM

Even if those parts were fixed though I don't think part 1 is a good puzzle. It's more of a "Try something and hope you find the same bug we did" part.

Soapy Sandwich 01/14/2022 11:03 PM

$decline

rhino 01/15/2022 12:56 AM

yp, i show the perfect angle. the stopper there is to give other map maker a sample part. and hope they can create some fun part which better than mine.

rhino 01/15/2022 12:57 AM

it's ok.

rhino 01/15/2022 12:58 AM

i think i will reuse some part to release in "fun". can i?

Night_L 01/15/2022 5:55 AM

Wait, before it's finalized, I have sth to argue for soapy's judgments since the map comes from my clan :). Part 1 could be confusing but you could definitely understand what you should do after understanding four physical features: 1. you could go through kill tiles with help of speeder "1, limits 1" with ninja dash. 2. you could go through kill tiles with help of speeder "255, no limits" with ninja dash. 3. you could go through a switch without triggering it with ninja dash. 4. you could keep your speed in a weird way holding left/right once a speeder gives you a large speed, and ninja dash could help you alter the position without losing it.

Night_L 01/15/2022 5:57 AM

1,2 are a little strange but nothing new. For example, the last stage of broken brain uses it. rocket is key uses as well. It is quite common.

Night_L 01/15/2022 5:57 AM

3, quite commonly known, as you are suppose to go through freeze/deep in the very released map tlqkf. the same mechanics

Night_L 01/15/2022 5:59 AM

4, this one is a bit odd but still reasonable. Many maps have this weird speed-keeping feature like brainduck2, insane 1234, but none of them tries to use ninja to alter the position.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:03 AM

The whole part is a bit condensed, but fxxk, rocketIsKey is way more condensed and confusing without any proper tips. That's a disaster, NinjaHack isn't. Part 1 only requires 30secs of gameplay once you understand what the part is doing.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:05 AM

This part needs some predictions but won't die. It was more frustrating before. This one is already fixed. 10 min's trying 100% gets you passed.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:16 AM

Going to fix this.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:22 AM

This part is carefully tested. Angle -3 to -6 are guaranteed to get you passed. None of any other angle works. It's not perfect at all, quite fun mechanics. The stopper is to avoid running into tele if you fail to stop inside speeder255

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:23 AM

Not very important and can be removed. It's just for a better gameplay experience.

Soapy Sandwich 01/15/2022 6:24 AM

The stopper at the finish line is the one I meant, not the one by the speeders.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:26 AM

It is carefully tested. There are some angles that will not get you pass the armor like angle -2. It is very interesting, isn't it? You could go up to the final as well, but you can't keep ninja. So the stopper is to force the player to keep ninja

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:27 AM

angles -1, 0 1 are all the same like this. But -3 to -6 will keep your ninja without triggering the armor

Soapy Sandwich 01/15/2022 6:41 AM

Doing all 4 techniques in one part makes it a nightmare to anyone who doesn't already know how to do it. I think a better way to do it is to break it up into 4 different parts. It feels like a lot of just trying things and being killed if you don't get it right. It is an interesting, creative part but I just don't think it's a good puzzle.

Maybe I am just bad at solving this kinda thing but I do know about all the 4 techniques you've mentioned and I still was lost here.

Soapy Sandwich 01/15/2022 6:42 AM

I just don't think it's a fun or good part, even if it was more frustrating/worse before. It's simple to work out and annoying to execute imo.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:44 AM

I don’t think I could pass RocketIsKey without tutorial but I am confident to solve this one with patience. It’s a bit condensed but considering the length (only 30secs even if you play like a old man), it’s still acceptable.

Soapy Sandwich 01/15/2022 6:45 AM

I'm not a big fan of expecting people to enter debug mode to do a part. There is no turn off entities sign and "-4" doesn't really make me think "open debug mode and set aim to -4". Killing me for not realising that seems rather annoying.

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:46 AM

Thats a mistake. Rhino forgot to add “turn off sign”

Night_L 01/15/2022 6:52 AM

Debug mode is used only once throughout the map. You could not avoid using it sometimes though. I use it many times in puzzle partners to help pass some annoying stages. It’s just a technique like aiming bind.

Soapy Sandwich 01/15/2022 6:55 AM

I'll ask another tester to take a look for you guys, maybe they will enjoy the map more than I did.

Soapy Sandwich 01/15/2022 6:57 AM

I see nothing wrong with releasing parts that include these techniques on the fun server. Although I think separating the parts a bit might make players have more fun discovering the techniques.

louis 01/15/2022 7:09 AM

the main thing imo is that this map is very hard to get started in if u dont know ninja tech

louis 01/15/2022 7:09 AM

id be for an easier ninja puzzle map that isnt too mind boggling

louis 01/15/2022 7:10 AM

because a player new to ninja bugs will join this and see all the switches, and it will be way too confusing imo

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:33 AM

Well, most players just don't play puzzle maps. Considering how many fins are there in brainduck2, puzzle partner. I can not solve those two solo puzzle maps(RocketIsKey, Puzzle box) all by myself. It's just the same confusing without any ninja bugs :<

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:34 AM

It's even more straight forward without looping several stages

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:35 AM

It's not that complex considering there is only 5 switches though

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:45 AM

Soapy tested for an hour. Couldnt make it half way in the first part. NovaShock tested for 40 minutes, got halfway through first part.

The map requires some oddly specific mechanics. And just seems a bit over the top. Atleast with the solo maps mentioned above, the map doesnt kill you for simply changing the angle of your aim or all these little precise movements the map requires. That's usually what makes a puzzle fun. Is the fact there is usually time to solve what you need to do. Same with brainducks.

And well yea, its very complicated considering some of the best puzzle racers can't even solve the part without a video/ or with the video.

So yeah. Not sure how people will feel about this type of map.

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:50 AM
JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:50 AM

1:15 minutes later

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:51 AM

Good point. Well, the map was initially made to prove kinda physical bugs are possible in ddnet. Combining all ninja bugs in one map would ofcuz make it too odd but that's why it's named NinjaHack. The opinions like "it's too confusing/odd" make sense but the map itself is playable and the mechanics are very interesting

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:51 AM

The death tiles could be replaced but it doesn't matter since the map is super short once you find out how it works

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:51 AM

only 1min will get you back to the place you die, so it won't upset too much even if you die

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:53 AM

Just because something is interesting doesnt make it fun sadly. And of course there is no right or wrong way to have fun in this game. But just because you can do it and you find it interesting doesnt make it fun.

Well, they tried for 1:15 minutes cant do the first part. So i dont know what to say .

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

Indeed. I think you probably didn't notice standing left/right will affect how the switches are triggered with ninja dash.

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

NovaShock did yes

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

So 70mins' trying can not get you pass. It was odd though..

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

Standing left was the right way

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

There is another standing right

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

if you notice

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

Ok, give this map to people and i want to see their first try run

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:56 AM

teleto 99

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:57 AM

And if they can do under 1 hour ill be impressed

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:57 AM

I think they can do it like 30mins with a tutorial of how switches are triggered with ninja dash. Hmm maybe rhino should make a tutorial stage before 1st stage

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:58 AM

You need to stand right here to trigger the correct switches

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 7:59 AM

Looks specific 😄

Night_L 01/15/2022 7:59 AM

it's very precise, but it doesn't require you play precisely. You just need to get aware of this mechanic

JimmyJazzThe1st 01/15/2022 8:00 AM

Well. Not sure how you will make a tutorial for the map. Good luck. I am no tester. This was my feedback watching others play.

rhino 01/15/2022 5:52 PM

this is the version with tutorial and no death

rhino 01/15/2022 5:53 PM

and there will be a new version with more part later

Wartoz 01/16/2022 4:44 AM
@rhino

chinese?

rhino 01/16/2022 5:02 AM

what did u mean, add chinese tip?

rhino 01/16/2022 5:03 AM

ok, i will add

rhino 01/17/2022 9:33 AM

fix tutorial tele. add more tips. add more parts.

texnonik 01/17/2022 10:26 AM

$reset

justFlippo 01/19/2022 12:13 AM

$reset

justFlippo 01/19/2022 12:13 AM

gonna take a look on it later, i see potential while looking at it

rhino 01/20/2022 1:09 PM

add a missing tip, add some decorations to show moving direction

rhino 01/21/2022 3:08 PM

remove a useless unfreeze, distinguish red tele and blue tele, change decorations.

justFlippo 01/22/2022 6:53 AM

Actually the map isn't that bad, but it isn't fun aswell. xd I would suggest here a rework.

In my opinion you can keep the part with totele 2, also the parts from totele 6 till finish - maybe explore more the function of ninja and create some more parts. If u did that you can bring back that map, but rn I have to decline it again.

justFlippo 01/22/2022 6:54 AM

$decline