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https://ddnet.tw/testmaps/?map=NinjaHack

play through video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ym4y1S74z

nice map

thanks

WTF

i do not uderstand anything

with new gameplay mehanics ... is there some new bugs you know ?

or should i upload demo?

you probably didnt see it

good video

if you have max speed with ninja

you go trough everything

exept blocks

the 2nd part i dont understand either

probably going trough switch tiles

i knowed that with other way , that no one know , but still :/

i think u means use ninja go up to touch the cp?

yes, go in the stopper

i gotta see the map ingame

and probably could understand it more

played trough the map

i couldnt do the 1st part

and all the other parts were easy af compared to the 1st

idk what i did wrong but switch 3 would be turned on if i got switch 2 to activate

from what i saw, this map is playing around the tick skip mechanism (yea its a feature not a bug like what people do in "to the moon") it contain a lot of luck element compare with other skills type of map

i doesnt mean that it need a lot of luck to pass the map what i trying to say is, in this map player have chance to fail the part for no reason, the worst thing is they didnt know why and how to pass the map after wasting a lot of time to figure what skill is needed to pass the map

switch2 in the 1st part comes from ninja's implementation. ninja is 9 times teleport, and only hit 9 points. i tested many position. if u stand on .44/.50, u can skip all switch 3, switch 1 and active switch 2. if u stand on .53/.56, u can skip all switch3, switch 2 and active switch 1. so, it is not tick skip, it just about position. nothing with luck, i maked a puzzle. player must think y close switch 2, and know stopper is bigger than 1 block. and then he finds he can move to right a bit.

and this feature is used in many other maps to skip freeze. i wonder y so that read the code and debug it. and found this.

and ninja get max speed in speeder is ezer than other speeder bug like: the last part of broken brain, upper right corner of rocketIsKey, which use dj to get max speed.

so i think i need to remove the unfreeze.

2th part is ez in low ping, i test it with 50/60ping and hard to do it.

at first, i want if player keeps moving right, he will die. but i failed.

the 1th part is puzzle, all the puzzle have the same situation.

.44 comes from touching left wall. .53 comes from touching right wall.

this map has nothing luck, all the part is about position.

sorry if i have misunderstanding on this

it's ok. 😄

start filter is also about position. if u are not at spawn position, u need to find other position to do it. i think i should make it more obvious, as a tip about position.

this image is more obvious. because position is float, it cant work everywhere. 😄

replace kill with stopper

that will become too easy

or this happens to every player

do you want them to solve the puzzle? or do you want them to quit the map at 1st part

this is player's choise, all the puzzle is.

well, maybe the tip about position will make it more obvious

we can see what the others think

i will upload map with tip later.

in fact, RocketIsKey and BrokenBrain have nothing tip. i don't know whether should i give it.

maybe release the first version.

i decide to release the new version.

i dont think u should give tip

in map

if they wanna cheat they can go on youtube there ll probably be a video

i choose to give tip. if player still cant solve the puzzle, they also can go to find video or ask some one passed.

its a puzzle map, so i'm not sure why u included the precise jump at the beginning

it does take like 5 seconds to go thru as well which is a little annoying

what are ur opinions on releasing a ninja/switch puzzle map like this? idk what to call it

the precise jump at the beginning is a tip for the key of solution. i don't want it become too ez to ignore or become too obvious

any advice?

i think the problem is u can get it fairly easy with some other random spots and hold d + jump (at least in my experience)

u could try making it 2 jumps somehow, or move the spot closer to the freeze

doesn't look like something fun to play, just ninja physics abuse, messy entities and 1 tile tubes

can i ask how do u define "abuse"?

no one make a part with ninja's feature before. i make it, so i abuse it?

the things i want to show is the feature of ninja and physics of tiles collision.

newer player can learn something from this map.

for most of the player, they will learn a "useless" feature of ninja, "speedrun useful" tiles collision.

fun is subjective feelings. for myself, the fun is do something with precise operation. it like speedrun. although i am not a speedruner.

that's all. and i dont want to modify my map any more because it may not pass.

to me cutting tiles counts as physics abuse, other than that this map looks like having to do a random sequence of moves to pass rather than puzzles with clear mechanics that make you think

cutting tiles can be found in brainduck and some other solo map which need ninja to skip freeze. and ninja skip freeze in other maps is more radom than my parts.

they even cant tell u y

i dont think my map have random sequence of move but the move where 2 pixel between freeze and shield

or u means my map "looks like"? it's a misunderstanding of the puzzle. so i give tip.

player can learn y ninja cuting tiles from thinking it is random or not. if u think player cant play in this way, i can only let the map go. and, seems new map "tlqkf" also use cut tiles. i dont think it can let player know y also.

most player(including some tester) misunderstand ninja's cutting tile. thinking it is too fast to skip, so that they are impossible to do cut in a stable way.

i think other maps have much more random sequence of move.

so i don't agree with u

if u say my puzzle is not so much good, i don't refute you. because i am a new mapper.

I didn't mean random as in random to perform, just that you're expected to know what to do and it's not a good puzzle if you have to use mechanics that you don't know

for me, if the map maker making a puzzle with new feature to make player suck and dont give any tip, it can be thought as a bad puzzle. i try my best to let player find the feature out themselves, but not to suck them.

the puzzle is made with new feature just because the feature can only be set in a puzzle.

When it comes to trying to work out the map it feels like you need a full understanding of exactly how ninja works and all weird bugs that go with it.
Tried for an hour without the video and couldn't do part one. Are the switches really all things someone needs to know about to solve it or do you expect people to just get lucky?

Even with the video it's still quite confusing to me. Personally I don't think it's good for a release, sorry but it is a very impressive map for different reasons.

Perhaps if you taught the player the feature slowly, one trick at a time I'd change my mind but part 1 seems to require 5 precise tricks in a row which I don't think is something good for a puzzle map.

This part was frustrating to try.

Can ninja over this shield and die, part would be better with tp in that one spot.

This part is unreliable, sometimes you go through the stopper and sometimes you don't.
Why is the stopper there? Are you supposed to aim at the perfect angle?

Even if those parts were fixed though I don't think part 1 is a good puzzle. It's more of a "Try something and hope you find the same bug we did" part.

$decline

yp, i show the perfect angle. the stopper there is to give other map maker a sample part. and hope they can create some fun part which better than mine.

it's ok.

i think i will reuse some part to release in "fun". can i?

Wait, before it's finalized, I have sth to argue for soapy's judgments since the map comes from my clan :). Part 1 could be confusing but you could definitely understand what you should do after understanding four physical features: 1. you could go through kill tiles with help of speeder "1, limits 1" with ninja dash. 2. you could go through kill tiles with help of speeder "255, no limits" with ninja dash. 3. you could go through a switch without triggering it with ninja dash. 4. you could keep your speed in a weird way holding left/right once a speeder gives you a large speed, and ninja dash could help you alter the position without losing it.

1,2 are a little strange but nothing new. For example, the last stage of broken brain uses it. rocket is key uses as well. It is quite common.

3, quite commonly known, as you are suppose to go through freeze/deep in the very released map tlqkf. the same mechanics

4, this one is a bit odd but still reasonable. Many maps have this weird speed-keeping feature like brainduck2, insane 1234, but none of them tries to use ninja to alter the position.

The whole part is a bit condensed, but fxxk, rocketIsKey is way more condensed and confusing without any proper tips. That's a disaster, NinjaHack isn't. Part 1 only requires 30secs of gameplay once you understand what the part is doing.

This part needs some predictions but won't die. It was more frustrating before. This one is already fixed. 10 min's trying 100% gets you passed.

Going to fix this.

This part is carefully tested. Angle -3 to -6 are guaranteed to get you passed. None of any other angle works. It's not perfect at all, quite fun mechanics. The stopper is to avoid running into tele if you fail to stop inside speeder255

Not very important and can be removed. It's just for a better gameplay experience.

The stopper at the finish line is the one I meant, not the one by the speeders.

It is carefully tested. There are some angles that will not get you pass the armor like angle -2. It is very interesting, isn't it? You could go up to the final as well, but you can't keep ninja. So the stopper is to force the player to keep ninja

angles -1, 0 1 are all the same like this. But -3 to -6 will keep your ninja without triggering the armor

Doing all 4 techniques in one part makes it a nightmare to anyone who doesn't already know how to do it. I think a better way to do it is to break it up into 4 different parts. It feels like a lot of just trying things and being killed if you don't get it right. It is an interesting, creative part but I just don't think it's a good puzzle.

Maybe I am just bad at solving this kinda thing but I do know about all the 4 techniques you've mentioned and I still was lost here.

I just don't think it's a fun or good part, even if it was more frustrating/worse before. It's simple to work out and annoying to execute imo.

I don’t think I could pass RocketIsKey without tutorial but I am confident to solve this one with patience. It’s a bit condensed but considering the length (only 30secs even if you play like a old man), it’s still acceptable.

I'm not a big fan of expecting people to enter debug mode to do a part. There is no turn off entities sign and "-4" doesn't really make me think "open debug mode and set aim to -4". Killing me for not realising that seems rather annoying.

Thats a mistake. Rhino forgot to add “turn off sign”

Debug mode is used only once throughout the map. You could not avoid using it sometimes though. I use it many times in puzzle partners to help pass some annoying stages. It’s just a technique like aiming bind.

I'll ask another tester to take a look for you guys, maybe they will enjoy the map more than I did.

I see nothing wrong with releasing parts that include these techniques on the fun server. Although I think separating the parts a bit might make players have more fun discovering the techniques.

the main thing imo is that this map is very hard to get started in if u dont know ninja tech

id be for an easier ninja puzzle map that isnt too mind boggling

because a player new to ninja bugs will join this and see all the switches, and it will be way too confusing imo

Well, most players just don't play puzzle maps. Considering how many fins are there in brainduck2, puzzle partner. I can not solve those two solo puzzle maps(RocketIsKey, Puzzle box) all by myself. It's just the same confusing without any ninja bugs :<

It's even more straight forward without looping several stages

It's not that complex considering there is only 5 switches though

Soapy tested for an hour. Couldnt make it half way in the first part. NovaShock tested for 40 minutes, got halfway through first part.

The map requires some oddly specific mechanics. And just seems a bit over the top. Atleast with the solo maps mentioned above, the map doesnt kill you for simply changing the angle of your aim or all these little precise movements the map requires. That's usually what makes a puzzle fun. Is the fact there is usually time to solve what you need to do. Same with brainducks.

And well yea, its very complicated considering some of the best puzzle racers can't even solve the part without a video/ or with the video.

So yeah. Not sure how people will feel about this type of map.

1:15 minutes later

Good point. Well, the map was initially made to prove kinda physical bugs are possible in ddnet. Combining all ninja bugs in one map would ofcuz make it too odd but that's why it's named NinjaHack. The opinions like "it's too confusing/odd" make sense but the map itself is playable and the mechanics are very interesting

The death tiles could be replaced but it doesn't matter since the map is super short once you find out how it works

only 1min will get you back to the place you die, so it won't upset too much even if you die

Just because something is interesting doesnt make it fun sadly. And of course there is no right or wrong way to have fun in this game. But just because you can do it and you find it interesting doesnt make it fun.

Well, they tried for 1:15 minutes cant do the first part. So i dont know what to say .

Indeed. I think you probably didn't notice standing left/right will affect how the switches are triggered with ninja dash.

NovaShock did yes

So 70mins' trying can not get you pass. It was odd though..

Standing left was the right way

There is another standing right

if you notice

Ok, give this map to people and i want to see their first try run

teleto 99

And if they can do under 1 hour ill be impressed

I think they can do it like 30mins with a tutorial of how switches are triggered with ninja dash. Hmm maybe rhino should make a tutorial stage before 1st stage

You need to stand right here to trigger the correct switches

Looks specific 😄

it's very precise, but it doesn't require you play precisely. You just need to get aware of this mechanic

Well. Not sure how you will make a tutorial for the map. Good luck. I am no tester. This was my feedback watching others play.

this is the version with tutorial and no death

and there will be a new version with more part later

chinese?

what did u mean, add chinese tip?

ok, i will add

fix tutorial tele. add more tips. add more parts.

$reset

$reset

gonna take a look on it later, i see potential while looking at it

add a missing tip, add some decorations to show moving direction

remove a useless unfreeze, distinguish red tele and blue tele, change decorations.

Actually the map isn't that bad, but it isn't fun aswell. xd I would suggest here a rework.

In my opinion you can keep the part with totele 2, also the parts from totele 6 till finish - maybe explore more the function of ninja and create some more parts. If u did that you can bring back that map, but rn I have to decline it again.

$decline