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https://ddnet.org/testmaps/?map=Grell

Map :lady_beetle: :

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

time cps

check early areas of the map and close off the walls

missing icon for non-entities view

• maybe something like this would be more understandable

why time checkpoint so close to finish ?

why not

:/

deleted

xewoiy can we go through your map on the test server?

fixed??

yeah

i dont know if others agree but i feel like these are too hard compared to other parts

corner on only one side

maybe shorten the time of freeze or make it possible to bounce into unfreeze ?

these are unused? i suggest to use them to improve your design, i can help you to improve the design if you want (just dm me)

uh yea

for those wondering: we went on a test server and discussed the entire map with mapper, too many things to list but i assume they will all be fixed in the next version

I'll try to fix all tomorrow

stoppers for beginners and more ways for many players done

theyre never gonna fly that high

theyre gonna start holding d or a when theyve passed freeze

then hookable wall maybe?

or smth like that

no

hookable roof

ok

maybe a little lower so its visible

yup thats good

fixes

and im thinking about it

i tried to make anti skip but idkdk

uh yeah, and i fixed this

and now roof its lower

fixes

and i'll add playground after finish

an also tysm Welf for bg

could make it say just <JETPACK> instead of <JETPACK GUN>

changes in the messages above

still not closed off

missing freeze

still missing corner on one side

ok, fixed

imo would be prettier if the background changed between filled and non-filled, right now it feels like you gave up and switched styles in the middle of the map

rough, but you could have it like this

nobody is really gonna want to block in the playground if the respawn time is the length of the entire map, add a playground teleport to spawn aswell ?

• finish line icons are uneven

here too

will have to see what other testers say, map looks good to me

yeah

not fixed but i think its better

yeah, fixed

fixed

now bg is changing here

bg fix and other small fixes

ohh the 2nd one is an old pattern i tried before i did the "wall" i forgot that it was there 😅 edit: i created the background as quickly as possible, to show how to easily improve the design, didn't plan the background change when i created it just fyi

Soo what i need to do now?

wait for others to test and point stuff out

i think i found better anti fail tile for this moment

guys, im thinking about

this can be use only by one tee

thats bad right?

soooo now fixed and nerfed

nerfs and fixes

oops, forgot to fix textures

fly like this was on countless amount of maps, it's very generic and not really creative, you might want to change it

so many special tiles made for playground, why you need them? this reminds me of kobras a lot but those maps are very old

background cuts off quite weirdly on top of the map

i think you should add freeze inside those stoppers

there's no need in so many tiles to mark dummy drag, 1 arrow should be more than enough, also might want to add "Turn off entities" tile here because you have design mark here

why add a "turn off entities" if its marked in entities already ?

that's the oddest entity mark for dummy drag i saw

it's not that intuitive

i think that's the only part where you used speed ups at, you can setup this without speed ups to make it clearer

this sun is offset

i would remove this 3 tiles for novice players

ctrl c +ctrl v parts

in some places you mark background for signs (screenshot 1), in some you leave them without background (screenshot 2, 3 and etc.)

I don't see any ways to change that part for novice players

there's a lot of possibilities how to make way up for novice players

but flies like this are outdated and not interesting

freeze bug

and some other fixes (no file bc remaking hammerfly part)

Hammerfly part deleted...

they still all have to learn hammerfly??

agree

They can learn it on another map, there is so many novice maps with the same setup, the way this fly was executed there wasn't great and why we have to put same thing on every novice map

it's one of the most important mechanics in the game 😮 i don't see why you would draw the line at this map 😅 it's random imo

Imo it’s fine if it stays but at least give it a good speedfly set-up by making the „set-up walls“ longer so advanced players can quickly move on

Current setup wasn't great and would create clusters of new players, i didn't meant to delete fly but make it better for novice players and constanting that flies like this are generic and there are countless of maps with flies like this, which is true

In the end mapper doesn't have to make every single thing i said, i test and tell everything i think of map to help improving it

i guess i misunderstood you, it seems like the mapper also misunderstood you

so i guess you mean this setup would be alot better, because it prevents blocking? i agree

theres also the option of making the new part where the hammerfly was unhookable and adding a tiny platform for noobs to line up, pros can simply throw or fly diagonally

f3 + arent those hookables? speedrunners would prefer those anyway if the hf is that short

Oh but if so, it could be misleading towards noobs thinking they are expected to do something crazy so I‘d rather have it unhookable

yea i mean restructuring the whole hf is better at this point

I guess the way how it was done in the screenshot i sent is better then, since it's less confusing

all the freeze is weird

since there are some testers now here i want to discuss something else: antiping is not activated on default and the map has quite a few high speed catches, is that okay for novice?

i guess it's better when the tee is right next to the HT wall, so you can do easier hooks

What? xD

I am playing without antiping all the time

there are players who have a 60+ ping (because they cant get a better one on any server) and in those cases you have to predict the tee you catch quite alot

I don’t think we have to teach people on how to join the right server or which settings to take if that’s an issue then that should be handled by client design or whatever

missing corners

you can also combine the freeze with the corner missing and the teleport corner (instead of full freeze + teleport corner) to add corners inside parts

My opinion only refers to the gameplay. Really nice flow in the parts. The timings are right for the players' switches. You can also speedrun the map really well. My feeling is the map is really far I don't know what I would changeö. +rep

maybe avoid this 😅

you should move the whole map to the top left and reduce the layer size

it is possible to do without this stuff. it could be made in other way for prevent fail

this is hard one for novice

it's supposed to prevent a fail, you mean another HT tile would fit better?

y i know about prevent.

smth like this will better

yeah, its better because it doesnt use special tiles, but its at the cost of not being able to D+hook

Fixed freeze and tele corners

Fixed

Fixed

Fixed??? (Hook for to reduce speed)

I can do smth like that? (big way for speedrunners and small for novice players i think)

the speedrunner way will confuse novice

then maybe

Soooo, changelog in my last messages

i think it would be better if u put these on the ground like the other ones

signs not done correctly

2 unused images

the stoppers here are kinda useless, because it's easy to get speed with jetpack and pass through 😅

pls keep it consistent

skip right side

skip might be possible here by bounce (move unfreeze 1 to the right)

entity off sign here. + shouldnt the upper arrows point downwards and the bottom arrows point upwards not to the right?

can skip drag with the person under having speed and hooking me

hammer here or swing the other person and a skip is possible

solo is possible

entity off sign

looks kinda weird imo

skippable

this hook skip is also possible

only 1 up from the ground

a logo would be nice here.

pls keep it consistent

easy skip with throw or swing here

not quite sure how to fix this, but the part breaks if your dummy goes like this (you will drop too low)

can you put more hookthrough tiles? i guess it feels better if you don't have to stop here

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

how its works..

its moved to this section because we are waiting for you to change the map

other fixes tomorrow

I think they indicate the position of the tees (hook on top, hammer on bottom)

Not for novice players

I've been told it's good for speedrunners

Same

So what should I do, fix it or leave it?

ur decision

I can also fully change 16tele part, but It will probably be worse than what we have now (but w/o bugs)

suggestion: move design tiles from game group, it will be both easier to map and test it (can click eye button on group instead of clicking 5 times to disable visibility of each layer)

you can achieve same background color with white quad, without having to export almost 0.5mb image

but im selecting all layers for mapping

i think it will impossible after this

i'd suggest to move logo to start of the map and make it more appealing, but it's up to you

i don't understand what you mean, if you mean you select all layers then you can shift + click each of those groups and all layers of clicked group will be chosen

add turn off entities tile since there are text signs in design

oh then ok

"use the pistol" sounds a little better i think

map doesn't mark freeze outside of the border anywhere else

this sign needs turn off entities tile

this too

i'd do something about this 4th tele to (make another platform for it or make more space or add block that stops you) because newbie can hold A key for too long while in freeze and end up in position i show

you can completely skip this section by throwing tee up

i think it's easy to fall in freeze here for newbie when getting teammate up

corners

actually there's plenty of missed corners so i'd suggest to go look for them

no need in 3 rows of finish tiles + if you make it 1 row it will look like start line

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

i mean

textures and entities

what would you need to select them all at the time

shift+click on group

idk how

no, what purpose to select each and every layer at the time

copy/move parts

or parts of parts

like walls

i think the 1st one is intentional

it's different from other corners

yeah, but.. fixed

fixed

Add quad layer, add quad (it will be white square by default) resize it, right click green dot and select square. Shift + click upper red dots and make color (right click) (i suppose it's gray - dark gray), select bottom red dot (no shift) and then second bottom dot (with shift) add color to it (right click) (i suppose its black or very dark gray)

you don't have to report every fix individually btw

and make sure the quad layer has 0 parallax on both x and y

he can use same group from previous bg

still, make sure

(you select paras on groups btw)

pretty much looks like a bug to me

yea

fine, its works

stoppers then

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

I think I've been told it's okay, and it'll be good for speedrunners, since novice players can't do it.

somewhere here unfreeze please (for the tee on the left)

unfreeze pls

unfreeze pls

i think you can nerf this catch by making it look like on screenshot (makes it possible to hook upwards without needing to time perfectly catch), on screenshot hook thing was replaced with ht but that mght ruin swing so don't change that

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

I think left player cant hook right player

move thing where left player stands a little right

I don't quite see how it makes gameplay easier

in first video timing for hook is less difficult than in second video

imo the mess at the end would look better if you added corners to everything

could even make it simpler

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

Yeah, fixed and fixed

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1259478574398705665/1261629922066174036 this needs a fix since this map is 1-2* and players here can hold button for too long

i would suggest to put the spawn like this, it's a bit nicer for speedrunners ( i guess you want them more at the center, thats fine too, but please dont put them to the left wall xd)

spawning at the very left feels annoying to me, not a big thing tho

this part still might be cheatable, so you should put more HT (green) and maybe add a wall to jump against (yellow) for qol

i forgot to mention there should also be 1 tile to the left of player that hooks, sorry. Would be good if you did it like on screenshot

this isn't fixed

add speeders no ?

we are working on a fix that doesnt include speeders

ah okay

after discussing this part with Welf we think this part would be more consistent this way, wall will allign tee to same hooking spot and more walking space below

unfreeze on to tele pls

you can make this unfreeze either 3 or 5 tiles long and put 1 sun in the middle

or create another group and use the pos x function for a sun in the middle

here too

or do what Welf said

here ht and hook doesn't have random tiles, you might've forgotten to use automapper after fixes

you can remove this box and put hookables/unhookables at the green line

Ok, i also try to make another version of this part (Separately) for test

you can post screenshot of fixed part here or in

and we'll say if it's better

I think right player can use hammer

ohh the pattern is broken here

that bug is all over the map XD

you gotta find them by yourself, there are too many

😭

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

there are too many at that point just remake the entire background then xd

ahh not needed its not that many

and its the same structure, so they are easy to find

isn't there not small space?

I think i fixed bg patterns

i dont understand the question

tiny gaps

sometimes that is better than having cheats 😅

other version of this part

looks way better

https://ptb.discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/746534464984973323/1262275051906924675

I need to use this in map?

imo go for it, but idk what the others will think

just put your map here, we can tell you if it needs further fixing

remaked tele 22 part

what are these stoppers for?

Anti skip

You need to jump with hooking tee on freeze, you dont need to jump from left

this is a bad way to anti skip, you might've made unhookables on the left and more space between parts so tee can't speed up or something like that, or just do it without anti skip because it's slower than hooking tee

green: move this 1 to the right/add a block on bottom yellow: remove 1 line of freeze

right not the part at the bottom is very hard without mechanical knowledge and the punish is rough (playing the other part again) (adding more checkpoints would be a solution too)

like that?

ok

changes in my last messages

a checkpoint here somewhere would be nice

as i can tell you don't use neither speedup or switch layer so you can delete them

right now it's kinda hard to tell apart where hookables end and unhookables start, might want to add a little more contrast to them

i'd cut this 2x3 part for qol

this teleporter placement will cause some weird fails (they will hold a while doing the part on the bottom and walk into from 3 after they enter to 4)

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

should be ready after proper fixes

And other minor fixes

put the entities off sign where the text actually is

Fixed

we weren't that precise last time the problem with the current to teleporter placement is, that its much easier to do the swing with falling speed, but because the to teleporter is on the ground, you have to climb up to get the falling speed, which takes some time, it would be much more convenient to have the to teleporters at this spot

i'd suggest to remove this freeze it only adds a way to fail for novice players

Fixed

Minor adjustments

put those 2 to teles on ground since it's solo

Fixed

gameplay is ready, i took a look for design errors and couldn't find any, might need a look from someone else though

First ready set by Trial Tester. Map needs to be tested again by an official tester before fully evaluated.

alr alr, ill do it

• corners

• skips

3rd one was intentionally kept for speedrunning, 2nd one is pretty fun to do imo and should also be kept, unless others disagree

then more opinions are needed

uhh sooo i fixed 1st

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

i realised that i didnt work properly when i worked on the bg, there are no stars in the bottom left corner, i fixed that on my own

if you don't like this fix just tell me 😅

The map is now ready to be released! Difficulty Rating: ★★☆☆☆Optimized version attached. Unoptimized version: https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1259478574398705665/1265751464186347602

I think it's a bug, so ty for fix

wowo map ready huge pog im fan

am i blind or is the optimized version 33.86kb heavier than the unoptimized version

It's not 2*

then?

Between 3 and 4 ig

can you edit this to 3*? idk if there is a cmd..

done!

your map has just been released, and you now have a 2-week grace period to identify and resolve any unnoticed bugs or skips. After these two weeks, only design and quality of life (QoL) fixes will be allowed, provided they don't impact the leaderboard rankings. Be aware that significant gameplay changes may impact and lead to the removal of ranks. Good luck with your map!

Grell has been set to RELEASED.

for 2 weeks i can change anything?

2-week grace period to identify and resolve any unnoticed bugs or skips

i can change this version, or i need to use "Load Current Map" in editor?

both are the same

Fixed some inconsistent stuff Added 9 time checkpoint Moved some teles after finish More space in some part

Post-release updates need to be manually uploaded. Please reach out to an administrator.

Optimized version:

next time take the optimized version instead of your editor version 😮

but im used optimized version

i think

Why optimized is 60kb+ more than the original xD

the optimized version is much bigger than ur version, so it seems like u used the wrong version, i might be wrong here

can you explain why the optimizing can increase the file size?

bruh

right now i copied optimizied ver and moved 1 tile, how its works..

ohh interesting

to me it looks like the bot took the second to last version

it happened multiple times recently

are the maps saved with the standard editor?

i think das lasted ver

im very sure

i'm home in like 2 hours, ill investigate then

when I change smth in the "optimized" version, file size gets smaller

to me this makes only sense if the optimizing touches the embedded images

but i don't know what it does 😅

Soooo?

i checked this version for issues/differences and couldn't find anything suspicious, so it can be uploaded to the servers

thanks, uploaded the fixed version then

Optimized version:

can you upload it again?

(the /optimize cmd was fixed)

i just realised that this can be done to all the released maps 😅

its a tradeoff between smaller map files, and everyone having to redownload the map ^^

okay i don't want to make that decision, but it would be weird to not apply the fix on this map, because we reported it in this channel 😅

done

yea ^^

I'm actually impressed by how much smaller the files are

here its like 15%-20% smaller

so here its definitely worth it, in particular because not many players have downloaded it so far