Mentions:

reupload since it got archived for some reason

also its back in testing :3

tiles have some weird gaps between them

why is half of the map filled with freeze and the other one is not, this freeze is also not marked in design, imo filling the entire non playable area with freeze and marking it could help with design as it visually separates the important and non important areas

and it filling it with freeze would also prevent skips like this

these kill tiles here arent marked in design

there are aa bunch of weird chains on the map

half the map is freeze to signal the halfway mark and stop a skip back then

i neglected design cus it was declined

ive been waiting for feedback on gameplay

and said ill make desgin once its back into testing

so i guess ill do it later today

this map again crazy

whats bad about it

nothing

but it looks like you didn't change anything

?

i havent gotten feedback

so why should i change

look throught mapping rules and check your map?

the saturations of the chains and hookthrough tiles is way too big

ok, gl releasing

there are quite a lot of spots with missing corners like in here

,

are you talking about remaking the whole design?

no fixing it

You shouldn't fill killtiles with freeze at all, or fill it all, cuz it just looks bad

skip(not duo tho, at least i couldn't do it)

imo this is bad tight spots for such a big spaced map

why ht

skip is definitely possible

skip

timecp

kinda bad tight too, but it's better

why unfreeze is even needed if u can go straight down

couldn't find a setup, so looks just like a bad - kinda random and hard part

freeze lines that prevents towers looks horrible imo and i still can stuck tees a bit left

tight again for such map imo

why deep

why killtiles if you are gonna die anyway

also a tight and strange structured part

just noticed might be a bit hard, cuz there wasn't kogs like that, but not sure

a bunch of design bugs, like, a lot(already mentioned by souly, but still gonna give screenshots)

map ain't really changed from the declined version as i see

design bucgs are gone the only hh are tight except that one kog

its ez

so they cant just drop right

But compared to the rest From a map, no

and after?

That's a very bad point, cuz u should test your maps by yourself before upload. And, also, when u was uploading updated versions it was already declined

wut you just jump left

and after u just take your temmate and u go

i have i copletely reworked the map after first test then i got 0 test for 2 months

I didn't see the wall on the side

There is no way to save there

But now u wasn't testing it before uploading?

yeah

hes frozen

i dunno why this happens there is no deep

it also deosnt deep you

fixed most things, and did design

Ok, so it happened because u have 2 overlapping layers of freeze, so you should delete it and prevent things like this by using the "Game" layer for the all hookable, unhookable, kills, unfreeze and freeze so nothing will overlap

oh i see ty

Ohh

I like this map

I think it's all right because he doesn't know what he needs to change and he didn't see where it was mapped incorrectly.

I'm sure that if he saw something that was wrong, he would fix it, but he just doesn't see it because of his lack of experience.

So, changing things just for the sake of it without feedback is a bad idea, because replacing one bad part with another is not good.

Unfortunately you are wrong here, there was very concrete feedback on this map by catseye before it got archived (https://ddnet.org/testlogs/show/Aquatic_Journey), the point that they brought up still stands

If he received feedback and didn't fix it, then my mistake — I didn't check the archive. Update: I checked the archive and it seems like the last feedback was outdated because the mapper uploaded 6-7 maps after this. Update 2: I checked more closely and it seems like the mapper didn't fix anything in these 6-7 uploads. idk if im right i spend on this inspection 10 min, but seem like ur and wee right, sorry.

I checked a few start parts here. These are my thoughts: Ur main parts feels like fillers, cus lack of idea. ITs just waste of time for players. for example first circle: u need put yourself/mate on edge its on every second map, its boring. You need to rework it, or you could do it faster by removing that. However, I'm not sure if the length of the map will be sufficient for release in this case. The rest of the map contains many of the same mistakes.

i have fixed all the things that were mentioned by him, in archive it just shows one ss of the many things i changed

yeah that seems to be the case at the start it gets less rare the further you go ill change the first few parts

But what about unoriginal and plain parts throughout the map?

i have changed most parts that i felt like were unoriginal since ive seen them and if some parts are in other maps i most likely havent played them

1.i cant save here with weak hook 2.i failed here without dj 3.having to fall down after the throw is annoying 4.tf u want me to do here

5. thats not how timecps work

top half of the map feels like a t0 hh map but the parts are so t0 unfriendly that it might aswell be a 2p map

i kinda went for a style thats similar to simple down its the same with it

this is how 4. works

if you want t0 make it so that the parts work in t0

they do no?

theres no spot for t0 to sit here

even if the large group somehow gets trough people are going to fall here from failed hh or fat

bottom of the part is really tight, 3 tile freeze floor makes it hard to save multiple people, theres essentially nowhere for people to stand before the part

im blind as shit

xdd

the two floors in the part itself dont count as you cant b

well sure but the big hookable is able to accomodate large groups

at least 20

30 if you squeeze a bit

unmarked kill tiles

i think placing small cubes like that here is a bad idea since it doesnt really match the entities

while structures like this can be nice for some decorative elements outside the map or in non playable areas, this one is a part of gameplay and can cause confusion

is it better like this? now you can see more clearly where the blocks beginn

i dont think thats any better

ideally just use regular tiles

both layers here have a bit of transparency so overlaying them like that creates some weird color differences

and as i mentioned earlier, both the chains and hookthrough tiles are way too saturated in color compared to the rest of the map

my friends said that aswell but its decor so it doesnt really matter and its not like its looks horrible

some of the cubes also have buggy entities

this spot to be exact

and you shouldnt use them in gameplay

also buggy here

1. you are now able to pull him under even with weak
2. made this part a big swnig where you then continue (for less edges)
3. removed the killtile
4. bigger gap and 2 block high freeze now
5. added hookables
6. smalller hole
7. added a plattform
8. on thses falling down blocks i made it more clear where the wall is

this 2 parts look alot like back in the days 2

skip

also u could call this a skip u can unfreeze the bottom tee by just timig the hooks

i agree w camo

map feels like t0ish but also 2p in alot of parts

also in this part u prevent stacks but u dont doit in hole map

rest of the map theres alot of spots where u can just skip the part by stacking 4-6 tees

the first part i did but its different you throw him in the scnd i didnt know

i left that in since its way harder than the part anyway

most maps you can do that theres not much you can do to prevent it except building high freezes but any hiher than its now would just look weird in some places

different person man

ddnet. org bencie

so much wisdom in this 1 second

1. lowered freeze and flipped one of the freeze pillars
2. fixed the skip mentioned by matatas lowered freeze aded these unhokkables so you will definetly see the hookables and be able to wait there and lowered more freeze also increased the space down there
3. lowered freeze, fixed skip mentioned by wee :0
4. lowered freeze
5. lowered freeze
6. lowered freeze and changed the part a bit
7. added hookables

Most of my old feedback still stands true. Especially:

The Parts are missing the polish and excitement that makes a map fun to play. Unfortunately there is no simple fix to that. You just have to gain more experience and keep creating, testing and evolving your own parts.

Mention:

fun is a personal thing all my friends had fun playing it, just because its not fun to you its not fun for everyone else

and what makes the parts unpolished in your opinione the timgs are right you dont have randmo blocks you get stuck on

and thats what testing is for you cant just excpect a map to be completely ready when its uploaded here

Yep, but if it's too far from being ready then it will be declined. Otherwise we wouldn't decline maps at all.

how is it far from ready?

you said one thing

also most parts feel exciting some may lack polish but i cant rly see which

And if another tester disagrees with my decision they are free to reset the map.

its the same as last time nobodys gonna test anymore since its declined anyway

i went 2 months with 0 test from other ppl, the only thing was the compression from cammo

testers could not reach this role if they were bad at testing

maybe if people don't want to test it, they don't like the map

that is unlike the many other ppl have said

in archive multiple ppl mentioned they like it even on this channel

then i don't know really

You can privately ask your friend to test, and I agree with catseye that there isn't much novelty in this map. Testing channels exist to make sure there isn't anything wrong, and are not meant to help you test your map from somewhere far from acceptable. Also try play more others' maps to have a more allround understanding on map quality.

gotta agree with cats on this one, map felt generally boring to play

+1

We need you :D

and coke also...

i doubt he will take a look at this map

i mean at all

If it were like that, no map would be rejected.

friends are always biased towards liking your map creations. friends also do not necessarily have the skills to judge a map on an objective basis. testers try to judge a map as objectively as they can because if we released all maps which are being submitted cause of the reason "well someone had fun" we would end up with 3 trillion unpolished maps. testers want to release the maps that they think would most ddnet players like, not necessarily what they personally like.

knuski not trolling moment

😈

i use my friends to determine if the map is novice enough

second best use of friends for real

iq test

just as you said not everyone can test a map and most mappers just cant they are reliant on the testers but you just decline and say go gain some experience no wonder there is 0 map releases

I don't know, man. I literally said where your part was bad or boring and why. Yes, you made some small changes, but they're not reworks or removals. Maybe you don't know what 'removed' or 'reworked' means.

maybe you didnt know that i was working on it?

wdym

u mean u still in progress? or u mean u alredy spend some time for rework that?

i have some changes in my editor

but i doubt ill continue mapping

idk man u upload map, i checked. what u want? when u upload map its mean u finish with fixing ur map.

then why is it called testing?

what called testing?

this whole process

you just excpect complete maps while this is impossible unless someone with testers as friends or a tester uploads a map

its just not feasible

but idc

think of it like open beta test of the game, everything is already done but you are not a superhuman to see all bugs or skips

so next map in like 4 months cus the standards are to high

it just doesnt make sense to me

this whole thing just doesnt work

if you want complete maps from the start you need to excpect lower quality if you want high quality maps help the mappers

its that simple

and from the testers perspective its annoying to have to repeat and explain the same things over and over again

its theyre job just how i change things over and over again

and im doing it voluntarily

so why cant i excpect the same treatment from them

same treatment with what

read the conversation?

What I can tell is your definition of "good" maps is different from ours, so I would recommend you play more others maps, so you might have a similar idea with us

omfg

look: 1 u drop redy map. 2 testers give feedback 3 u again fix all and drop redy map again. ... repeat until finish ... 99 profit

this is healthy process. but u now saying:

maybe you didnt know that i was working on it? so u didnt finish step 3 and wanna force 4 when u drop map its mean u finish with fixing and "ball on testers side" idk

im playing maps and they all suck

i would say same

theres 1 or 2

more playtime needed

that are good

i am doing step 3 but the problem is that this whole map is flawed according to them

and i change things pretty fast

but then i wait 2 months

but they got released

with 0 tests?

yeah cus the standard just rose expoentially for no reason

then look at new maps

skybow for example

i just looked at drag master its completly unpolished timgs are weird difficulty comes not from fun parts but precise movements

4 months agp

ago

You can always seek advice from other players without using testing channels. I think your map isn't perfect to everyone, so you can always gain from others

read this maps testing archive

ive done it ive asked like 12 friends to test, everyone pointed out small things i changed and then i upload

so okay i will wait when u finish step 3.ping me when u will finish fixing my feedback.

https://ddnet.org/testlogs/show/Drag_Master

first message was "insta decline" you see

wow 1 person said decline omg

it still doesnt change the fact it got released

not one, read it all until release and understand your problem

it is really

there were lots of ppl who defended the map

tf you mean

testers?

yeah

also

melon defended it hes a tester

melon tester what

he is

he has tester role

oh cool

at first you need more experience

and then you need to be more popular ofc

also have good relationship with testers..

so testing is biased

????

maybe

if you make great maps all will be gud

80% chance to release ig

there is only few maps i would call great

so basically never

could you say titles?

abyss asterism susterism Planet 9

just a few

thats the first ones that came to my head

Then what do you think of your map compared to these

its not great

but its better than average

and i litterally said that

abyss is mapped by at least 5 mappers afaik asterism and susterism are basic good-looking hh maps with simple parts planet 9? kidding?

only melon?

they are all fun

i dunno didnt look far

the question is whether it is more important what you think about your map or what others think about your map

Everyone wants to help, not to spite you bro

sure

i never said that

your behavior looks like you think everyone hates you

but not your friends

but even though they want to help im just saying that the testing process sucks

you should find a tester to help you finish your map privately, but not here

cus im saying that the testing process sucks and everyone disagrees even though its obvious

and only post it here until it's all done on your side

then what is thissss for???

its called testting

then change the name

so its not misleading

im not a long time mapperi uploaded my maps cus i cant improve them solo

I mean if you cannot output a good enough map to not get declined here, you better get some help somewhere

so why am i here???

its called testing

youre making no sense i upload it into testing not "Finished maps uploading channel"

I mean I think your map doesn't contain anything new or novel to me, and is generally not fun for me. Do you expect me to tell you how to change your map or what?

.

yes?

I'm also not mapper, I can't map

thats what testers do

well tell me whats wrong

so i change it

thats the point

yeah, and I think the whole map isn't fun, but you didn't rework the whole thing

i did btw.

im changing the things you said

youre the only one that i havent changed the feedback of

u alredy upload it?

no

im working on it

then work

:c

do no argue

you are flaming your time

and nerves

make changes and that's it

with each positive change you gain more skills as a mapper and "know what works"

and what doesn't work

then whatever you release should be good, it will just require small corrections, not changes to entire parts

my first 2 maps were also rejected

I played them recently. Now when I look at them, they were shitty 😂

And I think I also reworked the whole map like twice.

its rlly hard that ur first map its getting accepted

all ppl i know that make maps

got insta rejected on theirs first map

i got declined after a month or two 😎

You can check the logs of my rejected maps and read them. Sometimes testing took tons of time, and the map still got rejected.

I can give you the link if you want to check it: https://ddnet.org/testlogs/show/Chill_Hills

im working on my own map and im already preparing myself to get rejected

how to avoid getting declined as novice mapper step 1: start mapping computers instead step 2: make a fancy design so your low effort computer looks more proffesional

and thats how i got braintee released

on fun

still a release

sure

No worries, we can make it short and painless.

VeNa reference

:<

if theres anything you dont like tell me

What is this argue was all for? First of all, yes, testing process isn't ideal rn, u can't test and evaluate completly different maps by just few categories and damn 1-5 stars difficulty, it's not ideal from the start, but it's what we have. You saying there is only a few good maps(tho actually isn't true) and first maps that comes to ur head is the map, that was being mapped for years(Abyss), probably the most controversial map for testing(Planet 9), you can check testlogs of Planet 9 by yourself, it was literally a few times declined map that barely made it to release cuz Silex is very good known mapper, and community liked the map, but not the testers itself(that means we are not evaluating anything just because we like it, or we don't). We can't just teach everyone how to make properly, or what exactly players like to play, we can't release ideal maps also. If every map will be given a lot of attention to bring it to a release state we are just gonna be distracted from one map to another, and neither one will be good enough, or, we can pay attention and take our time to test already well-mapped maps and already and make them better and better straight to release point. I'm myself trying to point out all errors on the first maps of the new mappers, give them advices and open to help everyone if they are gonna ask something, i could've just decline this map when i first tested it, but i ain't done it, so you can collect more information from the different players and different angles about your map, just because you have potential in my eyes, and i want to see more skilled mappers tho even i'm not the best mapper itself, im just trying my best, as everyone else here, not because it's our "job" as u said, no one paying us, we just love the game and community bro.

Second thing - is how u responded to everyone trying to help u, in the previous time u uploaded this map, and this time also. You can't just say "no it's not gonna be skip, im not gonna fix it" and then a few mins after "yes, that was a skip, sorry", you better should listen what kind of feedback you have, check it yourself, look at potential skips, or errors by yourself, and, if it was low-quality feedback as you had in previous upload from just a random guys - ignore it if u want. Everyone here doing it volunterely, you, me, other testers and mappers, you can't be rude at this situation and say that testers are doing bad, or bad maps being released, because it's very subjective thing, someone liked the Drag Master because there wasn't drag maps in a while and he's skilled enough(i can even give examples from my friends), someone didn't because it's hard and precised. I don't really like Planet 9, but you do, and hundreds of people do love it, hundreds of people do not love it, what can we do about it?

And last thing, "testing is biased" - really? How then my maps got released, if i knew 0 people from ddnet when i started doing some maps. And my first map was just crushed into bones when i first time uploaded something, u can check yourself in testlogs for "Amnesia", i thought it was a best map ever back then, but now i just think it's peace of crap, which is basically true. I had 0 explanations why exactly that or this error was bad mapped, and how can i fix it, Vena just said it's bad and declined the map in like a few hours of this map being in test, and i believed him, started to map something else. Brutal as first map itself is a bad decision, cuz u can't just map good quality hard map like that. So i started to map easier maps, and only now, after year i think im ready to map a brutal map because i have tons of unfinished maps.

bro the tesign is biased wasnt even said by me

me

but don't make fast comments and read all

i guess wee cooked gud

no ones paying me aswell so why should i even map aswell. i said if im forced to wait multiple months for tests and then i upload the changes in a few days i excpect the same from testers

i wasnt saying the testers are bad they point out good things im saying the testing process sucks and some skips are just not rly fixable like you can tower on almost anymap to skip parts, and about the fun thing i already said that, multiple ppl like it even in test channels ppl say its fun but then testers come and say its not fun, thats why i said that fun shouldnt be viewed from a single prespective the most important reason catseye gave was that the map is not fun which contradicts what other ppl have said

novice is just way harder to map because of the even higher standards and moderate is just even harder to map since you get way out of difficulty to quickly thats why brutal for me is just the easiest choice

ohoh anothe paragraph

So as no one is paying u, no one is also forcing u to map. Multiple months of test - is currently the main issue in testing rn in my opinion, but the thing is there lack of players that actually want to test maps and give good feedback for months, years, not just test to get tester's role and quit the game.

i am always giving feedback after a map was changed i usually take one map and everytime changes get uploaded i test

if i can why cant you?

Your map had some things that isn't necessary and had skip potentials, that is definitely was fixable, and you ain't really wanted to fix it, u did tho, but it took lotta more time than could be

again: u cant just say that a few people found it fun so it must be a fun map for everyone. cats is a tester and he doesnt judge solely based on his personal likings. he already considered if most ddnet players would have fun playing this map, and his estimation came out as „not fun“. He didnt decline it because he thinks its bad. He declined it because hes qualified enough as a tester to know that most ddnet players will think its bad.

brutal and insane are the hardest to map normally

didnt the same thing happen with planet 9 testers somehow didnt see the fun the community saw

it was fixed the same day in the first upload and yea im stupid sometimes

testers decided to release it because most ddnet players would find tje map fun. even though ddnet testers personally disliked it. you just provedy my point.

no it just says that testers dont see the fun the community sees

and few ppl test maps but from what was said multiple ppl say they like the map

testers are the same players as you

also in the submit map channel this map is getting✅ very fast if that doesnt tell you ppl like it then idk

that doesnt mean anything

it does though???

xddd

if ppl like the map they put it

in submit channel you see only title and mapper xd

but why do some maps have more and some less

im not a well known mapper that makes 0 sense

it only means some tester sees your map and pressed ✅

No, it doesn't really.

the submit map channel is only there to filter out obvious troll maps

then why do non testers react#

so they can access the channel

why doesnt it if a map has lots of them it means the community favors them

yiou can make it so only testers can react

why would we do that?

how then non testers would test

since you said its only for testers np

What are u even arguing now? 😄 it's not the point

no?

im saying the community likes it slightly more than other maps and saying that catseye may be wrong with the not fun thing

But people from here are also part of the community and they don't really like it bro xD

what's there to argue with?

its that only testers currently dislike it more

most people here have been playing this game for many years and they know what works and what doesn't

yea because we dont have the entire ddnet community testing ur map

Because basically only testers really care about testing, no?

if they would care theyd test more frequently no?

im just saying that some testers dont even test anymore

theres only a few that are testing

ye true hurts

and what

there have been enough discussions about this topic. admins dont want to force testers to test. Its voluntary

then remove those that dont test its frustrating to see this many online while on one tests

||Next time im gonna leave my job as fast as i can to test "Stronghold_remastered_block" ||

like make a quouta 2 tests per month

or smth

admins dont want that

and why?

would it hurt them or smth?

oh no theyre friends who they gave tester to might get mad that we took it away

because they would have to readd all the inactive testers every single time. doesnt hurt to just leave them in

People have their own lives. This game isn’t their actual job bro xD

inactive means not testing why tester role and if they dont test its theyre fault

because they come back eventually to test more

ive tested where my tester role

pls tester

plsss i tested once

do you not see it

why should they regain tester after 1 test

This is already going to nothing

if they actively test they should but they dont do that

okay, maybe it's better to close the topic i would say

yeah

the humble

channel:

Just bro, we're not your enemies

xdd

well technically your standing in my way to releasing this map so ..... ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If you want to release it, I can ask if they will release it on Teecloud

bro just dont take it personal just map is just not good lmao

the thing is i want to know whats not good so i change it

some maps just cant be fixed

:cccc

like just map another map and maby take some good parts from this one

just take next step

but whats good from what ive heard it all sucks

and bring the knowledge from this map and use it in the next one

my advice: make a moderate with some interesting drag parts

or make a solo

ez

is this ur first map?

scnd

yeah

make more maps

make some spawn, 4 drag parts and send SS and we'll tell you if it will work

hard that ur second map its gettin accepted

how mutch time did it took u to make the map?

the first one or with all the times i changed?

just don't do it too quickly, just take your time

first one

like 15 hours

thats what i mean

take more time to make the map

test many times the part

test w many ppl

ask in meta testing if the parts look cool

a good map dosent take 15h

takes weeks or months

redline katana v2 took a single week or less

its a remade

thats cheating

make a spawn and two interesting mod parts. Then send ss on

v1 and v2 might as well be different maps with how they were made

my advice

we'll tell you if it fits and if it will work

my advice is to play a part hundreds of times and delete everything that annoys you even a tiny bit to create an overall smooth experience for that specific part

yes

here are some examples for you to get inspired

And try to work out ideas that havent been used often and make them feel new. Rather a shorter map filled with new parts than parts you can play at any other maps. We can help you out improving good ideas. We cant find them for you. It ofc is harder to get a map released these days. Simply because many ideas already have been used in many ways.

good ending?

i have an idea for a map

mapp it

crazy i should note it

im gonna make a new one but id still appreciate feedback since i want this map to get uploaded aswell

but they will call it too hard..

nvm

3 tile floor freeze is annoying and difficult in t0, as a result it feels like youre not allowed to rest, especially with killtiles in some parts

i think there is no more 3 tile freeze

map is stronghold/simple down-like

if you really want that hooktrough part to be that faily then just move the left floor closer or separate the parts more

its bad

why is it bad they are some of the most popular

didnt pipou describe stronghold as "i took the worst most boring parts from my good map and put them all into one long and boring map"

well ppl like boring parts ig

we wait for the ideal map

by pipou

stronghold 5 [final final]

no

i mean that pipou and nehr map

Just want to highlight what StorмPʜöɴix said again since that is precisely the case here.

We can help you out improving good ideas. We cant find them for you.

i love the fact that everyday here i can read a whole new discussion, its like endless story

cant wait for next episode tmrw

its better but u still have smth like this.

also nf is boring too(cus long u need 5-8 sec to pass it) ||I count from the farthest spawn.||

i like it so i kept it

i dont think a map should only be parts a bit of filler is always fine

(your map is almost full of fillers)

between parts there are fillers

it wont

u wont :<

so lovely

it wont get rejected

wdym

im noob mapper

will u accpet my map as a skin

I have another map closer to finish than Troubled 👀

Stronghold 5 [Final Final]

ooo ok 👍

idk how to help you then.

well this part should stand is there anything else you saw i maybe should change

it seems like the testing team took care of this issue

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or saying anyone is boring, but I think the map should reach everyone from people who enjoy anything to even the most boring people.

Go upload strong with Hook able💀💀

Hookable*

New 2 days

i dont understand what youre getting at?