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https://ddnet.tw/testmaps/?map=Basic_Drags

changed the color of the "good" teleporters (they were the same as the others)

fixxed a small graphical issue

Map is good suggested to make the last part a bit harder

I will wait for more opinions, before i do gameplay changes (well i am lazy rn, maybe later or at another day xD).

So if anybody is wondering: I made this map because i think we need this gameplay. The map is supposed to give novice players access to drag parts without making them too frustrating. I was lazy with the design and i don't want fame or anything for this basic stuff (it doesn't fit to my own creativity standards). So if anybody wants to help with the design, feel free to tell me what to do xD

i like how your push them design is so good etc etc and this one is simple design xDD

pd: still a good map tho, like your new maps ^-^

is this a joke?

The map is supposed to give novice players access to drag parts without making them too frustrating.

but it's Moderate

well i am lazy rn I was lazy with the design

Testers are too lazy to test it then, admitting you put 0 effort should be instant decline

xD

For me you are the joke.

This should not be in the mapping thread. Anyways, found this design bug where you mapped the tele different to the whole rest of the map

she called my map a joke and 0 effort, why should i respect her xd why do you blame me

private messaging

But i agree, that corner will be removed

Okay i correct myself. Saaviks comments on my maps are so weird and respectless, that it's not worth answering.

better?

There are even some players who are happy about a basic well structured design, because then they don't need to turn on entities. This design is probably more playable than the Push Them design. So yeah i might add small stuff but overloading it, wont make it better.

I like simple design too, i guess it was just bad formulated of you by calling it lazy yourself

Being lazy is not always a bad thing xd

she called my map a joke and 0 effort, why should i respect her xd why do you blame me

I said you admitted it so I kinda quoted you

i enjoyed the map but i dont think it should be released, such maps is very easy to map, if u release this people gonna spamm ddnet with such simple ddmaxlike maps and ur "look at recent releases" not gonna work

Tbh it would be good to have a few maps like this. We barely have normal moderate 1-3* maps. If it's too much, you can just say, that there are enough compareable maps. Imo my map has a unique style, if others copy it, they are not unique.

few maps like this? half of ddmax like that

this one just have cleaner structure

My drag parts are short (less frustrating) and some are built around basic drag techniques u see in harder maps. The map is built around hook through. Ddmax parts are alot more simple jump from edge to edge. I don't think that the general structure is bad, Baby Aims are very popular.

what about the simplest most basic solo parts?

i didnt say structure bad) poor danilbest with his all declined maps like this one

I agree, poor danilbest 😦

"basic" drags should rather be easy, not uninteresting

We can change the name, i just couldn't come up with a better one and for me this one fits

I'm not sure if people would like to play "Boring Drags"

You don't even care about what people would like to play. You don't even play.

Dull drags

"dull" is your word, is this map "Dull Drags"?

i improved the design, i will upload the new version as soon as i changed the last part.

To be more serious, now we just need to determine the "basic" limit. But as I know you can do much better, and that you have a great experience in mapping, I don't want to release this map

This map is a product of my mapping experience. You guys just think that "basic" maps are bad, but actually we don't have many good basic maps. From my perspective this gameplay is better than the classic ddmax maps. With the old ratings it would be novice. We have a lot of Novice players, who should try playing maps like this, to improve their skill.

Show me compareable maps (good easy moderate gameplay, drag part focussed), before you think about declining this.

For me you guys are kept within a weird mindset, where a map has to deliver super creative gameplay. Actually maps like Baby Aim or Stronghold are played alot. The gameplay is not really innovative, but the maps are well mapped.

Players don't want super special creative maps. The Event Maps got hated, because they were too weird/annoying creative. Most of our players are actually novice and mostly they play boring uncreative maps xD

👀

baby aims and stronghold have more than only drag parts

there's just something missing between all those drag parys

parts

Most mappers try to put some hh and hf parts between drag parts, just like Baby Aim's maps. This one just doesn't have that

the parts are short because long parts and long maps are mostly frustrating. some players need multiple hours to finish a kobra map. i don't understand what's missing XD

this map is way too hard for those new players, the problem is that it's not that easy, just bland as heck

The new players are there for more than a month now. Show me a better map at this difficulty.

cup of tee

memento mori

im funny right

cup of tee is way harder

also that one is faily

this map is not novice tho

i tried to use cup of tee as an introduction map for novice players who want to try harder maps

it doesn't have crazy balancing moves

?

what are crazy balancing moves?

also Goo is a great "drag focused" map for them

both those maps are far more interestingly mapped than this

Goo is a good map, but the parts are longer.

they're also easier

anyway you asked for examples and I gave them

so the issue is, that my drag parts are short and hard instead of long and easy?

they're not as easy as you think and they're really bland xd

it's possible to make easier drags that are more interesting and also throw in some cool transition parts

i think those parts are much easier than the ones on "goo!"

I think you're wrong

just went back and fourth between those maps

there's literally a part with a ground hammer here

and some balancing stuff

i did not see a groundhammer yet, which cp?

12

not counting if you cheat it*

sure thats the 'cheat' way?

why would there be an open corner and a wall not possible to jump over

Is it that bad having a ground hammer part?

It's not even hard,

yeah for "novice" players that move is pretty impossible xD

Well they have to learn, right?

ground hammer is hard and should definitely not be at the end of a part

if they should learn, then put it at the start of a part

Is at the beginning of the part

And it has a platform so the tee doesn't go back again

at cp12 the ground hammer would be a the end of the part

Huh?

It's at the beginning

ah

you are right

i thought ravie meant the end of the part, which is why i wondered why he thought a ground hammer was neccessary

i didnt look at the start of the part ^^

Is at the beginning, tho

you are right

And it's an easy way to learn ground hammer

It's not faily, and it's easy

yea i agree

Or you want a map with only ground hammers?

are you talking with me or ravie?

Or ground hammer is meant to be only for brutal maps?

More like general, but mostly to Ravie, yea

maybe put an indicator for the hammer or smth

Ye, I agree

It's not cheatable btw

Unless someone else is waiting on the other part xd

I think the map is good like it is but if you want it to be an introduction into moderate try to show noobs what they have to do

and make the design a little bit better as the blue background with the little colors doesnt seem to fit

maps like this are liked by speedrunners

the way purple panic was speedran by many players

it's not an introduction to moderate, there are plenty of mod 1* maps easier and better than this

gameplay is .. underwhelming? i was at finish and like "huh that was it?"

I like that word ^

the map isnt supposed to be interesting for you, but for new players

I liked the map when i played it just playing without much thinking and having fun with a friend

i think people forgot that you can play easy maps with other people and not alone with dummy

Let's all stop thinking that all maps needs creative parts, most of us are hard maps players

the difficulty is obviously easier, but an easy map can still be entertaining, and i didn't feel entertained. you don't need brainduck parts, but this one just needs to be longer in my opinion

I liked the map when i played it just playing without much thinking and having fun with a friend

i agree with Ama here, most "new" players iplayed with dont care about so much creativity, cause it is very difficult for beginners to learn so many crazy things that are all different. We got so many new ideas in the time of ddnet that it is very difficult to learn all of those things. Basic maps are not boring for players that are just right at that skill level.

nah if it's longer I'd fall asleep

newbies are easily entertained by harder parts than those they are used to. we do not experience that entertainment anymore on those maps, since we are long past that difficulty level

The only thing this map needs is a redesign so it looks better and thats about it

sure, I agree. i guess the problem is that there are already so many maps like this, that it's hard to say "we need more of this kind of map" because it's nothing new. but maybe we do need more, i guess. than it should at least have better design (like maggi said)

Yes, i love simple design where you can play without entities, but this map looks a bit empty, no need for too fancy design, just a few more blocks

Why shouldnt we have more of it? If the map isnt bad and people want to play it? More maps to choose from :)

but it is bad

It's bad for you, ravie

Why isnt there an option to vote for a map, so testers can see how many people actually like it. Not that it says release or not, but then ravie might accept a map like this

no, it's bad for novice players as well

no, it's bad for novice players as well

bUt It Is MoDeRaTe

for just how hard it is, it's terribly uninteresting

it's even mapped in the most boring way possible, part after part with nothing interesting between

which is acceptable in maps with drags that keep it interesting (like Yun Gu and so on)

Yun gu it's meant to be hard and challenging

Most people rq those maps, because they are hard

I don't think you're getting my point

And you are not getting most people's point

what is this even supposed to mean xd

that you repeat the same statements, while they were already adressed

no, they weren't

so far I've only heard "maps don't need to be interesting if they're hard"

easy vote, f3 if you like gameplay, f4 if you don't

We know votes doesn't work here, red, thx for trying tho

It's not so simple

are you rly happy with this solo shotgun part for example?

I would change it

I am happy with it, it's a normal shotgun part

How would you change it

one upward shot, two consecutive ones to the right, i dont see a problem there

you really twist the meaning of our statements with:

maps don't need to be interesting if they're hard when our point roughly was: newbies are easily entertained by harder parts than those they are used to. we do not experience that entertainment anymore on those maps, since we are long past that difficulty level

Very interesting thread, cool to see the different opinions of players and mappers here. Should be archived.

like I've already said, this map is too hard for "newbies" and won't entertain people good enough to play it since there are already much more interesting maps in the same difficulty range

I dont wanna get involved, but Ravie you just said the opposite thing taking in consideration only ur idea. Patiga: "Newbies are easily entertained by harder parts", Ravie: "map is too hard for newbies, wont entertain them" lel xD

i personally dont like the design of this either, didnt look at parts. But i also think players that recently gets into "moderate" should have hard parts.

read what I said again, slowly

" this map is too hard for "newbies" and won't entertain people good enough to play it "

with that you say that hard parts shouldnt be made for moderate, thats what first thing comes into ones mind

doesnt matter if a part is interesting or not xD, for example hh is boring af but yet people still map it.

as I've said before, "boring" things are alright if you spice it up in between

agree

this map does nothing to spice it up

i myself have struggled to find good, clean entry level moderate maps when i play with newbie friends. this is definitely one i wouldve like to play with them. there definitely are very well mapped moderate maps out there. however this map is still mapped much cleaner than most of those. one key feature of this map that makes it stand out in that pool of maps is that it is short. Short maps are rare, but i do love them, since they allow you to 'quickly play some ddnet map'. that each drag part is short is also very handy for players to learn each new trick individually

and I don't think this is an "entry level moderate" map

just a normal moderate map, and not a good one

please point to parts that you consider too hard for entry level moderate players. my opinion of the map so far is that each trick isnt too difficult, and the short length of each part allows the players to get used to them. if one of the tricks is actually 'too hard', i believe it could be easily made a bit easier and all is good again

just a normal moderate map, and not a good one simply throwing such a statement into a conversation does not contribute anything

neither does pointing at it

Since nobody give poor Welf feedback i will do some. Here @Welf i think you can do a bit better i mean this probably novice 4-5* considering new/old novice maps rating. Its just a hook and dj hold all time D.

Here same thing. I think this is 4-5* novice rocket, just "maybe" last last rocket idk also i wouldve change the position of solo out and in at the end of the part abit awkward there.

he left

oh damn

does that mean I can just decline it now?

yes

Maybe he will appear later xd

xD

thats sad

he is still in the ddnet discord, no?

drama queen

i cant tag him

he rq again

ah hes gone

[12:44 PM] BOT DDNet: 📤 Welf#1962 just left the server :mmm:

well then no point

noobfilter doesn't need to be difficult though

yes but think that its moderate xD cant be super mega izi even noobs can do it

Especially when first part of the map is faily

Some brutal maps have ez filters

just my point of view on dificulties 🤷‍♂️

Yes, good to point it out, just tried to explain my view on it too :)

Does noobfilters count for balance on a map?

No not rlly

aha i see, thats why my view on them is like that prob

i thought i does so it had to be progressive through the dificulties

If it is more difficult than the rest of the map, maybe, but noobfilter shouldnt count as most ppl hate too difficult nf

Old maps go by that rule, harder noob filter for harder maps. But I also don't feel that is necessary

some ddmax maps have harder filter than the actual map lmao

true xD but ddmax sucks xD

u

i hate all of them idk why

My shit maps for example have a nf that is so much harder thanthe map, wouldnt recommend

you can make something good from this map

nf is good

Finished it in under 5 mins. I really liked the map, but IDK why people are mentioning novice here? This is definitely a 1 star moderate map. However, please can people stop making such short maps? xd many new maps are so short.. Players play longer maps because the server builds up and the map name gets known. Make this map 2x longer and it would be great for a moderate server .

Blade: "but IDK why people are mentiong novice here?" because... for example the laser part on this map is like my novice 2 laser part and novice players passed it easily no trouble thats why. Even last part to the end is random block to hook and get finish thats another 3-5 novice

the map was alright imo but it looks too low effort

same as rocket and shotgun

u can really tell the difference between this and

, its obvious welf could do better

exactly, its not a bad map, the parts in between are good, it just needs better design and couple of fixing to other parts

Ah that is tru quix.. the map needs some balance for sure, the solo parts are fucking ez compare to some hook parts xd

yes x'D

ye louis it does seem a bit low effort, its got the right idea but it is quite simple

shorter maps are better for players without a team. If this is difficult for you this map might need 20-30min to finish and not everyone wants to play tw for 8h straight

But yes, we dont need only short maps, longer maps are welcome too

have you seen the times new players have on novice maps? 1hour +

But true, a harder map will take longer even if its short.

I see these 1-2h finsihes on maps like kobra

No nobo can first try these parts so the map is definitely longer for an average noob than you’d think

its moderate lmao

I don't think this map is similar to ddmax maps at all, the drags are way more modern and have a better style that teach you mechanics you'd need on yun gu / barren / silk touch or the other 5 - 1 brutal drag maps

They feel very good to play but I feel like the map is a bit too short, especially the filler parts could be slightly longer

Like the gores or the hammerfly

Make it a bit more demanding

"or the other 5 - 1 brutal drag maps" Brutal maps arent supposed to teach you anything xD

Well maybe read what I wrote again, so you understand what I was implying

well at the beginning you say "drags are way more modern and have a better style that teach you mechanics" which means that ddmax should teach you stuff which is good and then u gave examples "yun gu / barren / silk touch" and then at the end u say "or the other 5 - 1 brutal drag maps" xD? but any way map is poorly made compared to others of welf and u can tell.

if you dont want to understand what he is saying it makes absolutly no sense for you to argue because you dont want to understand

$decline

The Map is better than Push Them. It is a good Map for alot of players. I thought alot about how and why i mapped the parts like they are.

So why did you rush a decline now? Why didn't you decline it instantly?

Just rework the map with better design and rework solo parts and this map is releasable without a doubt

the design is reworked already, the solo parts are easy for a reason. i might change some of them, but for me the weapon solos are fine (and also hard to rework because of space issues).

People having there own opinion and playstyle so far up there arse they dont see anything else

other testers should say something about this map and not fucking dictatorship

Welf always talked to other testers and listened to their opinion

Go home hitler

maybe hitler is too much and since kenzo is calling ravie a communist, we should call ravie stalin?

I miss the times where testers went to test server together with the mapper to look what could be improved and brainstorm ideas, working together is the key so the testers and mappers understand what the other site is thinking...

you are supposed to do that with your friends before an upload. testers can't do that much for maps (there are not enough testers)

if you dont want to understand what he is saying it makes absolutly no sense for you to argue because you dont want to understand

are you talking to me?

if any of you think this map is releasable and want to work on it, feel free to reset

I have already expressed myself on this map

you are supposed to do that with your friends before an upload. testers can't do that much for maps (there are not enough testers)

ok, i always think writing here with extra screenshots where you mark something in it takes more time, also ppl are arguing in the map thread to, so why not on test server. But yes you may be right, it also is the testers choice how they want to handle it. In my experience mappers were more willing to change smth when i talked to them on testing server and not in dc map thread

New version of the map is releasable imo, some other people tested this before and most people agreed they liked the gameplay

agree, just the design makes it look basic xD

I'm not official tester, but I've tested a lot of maps through the years and it don't see any problems with this one

yeah the design is changed already, i just don't see a reason to upload, since this is "declined"

lol no it shouldnt be declined, they should let you upload fixes isnt it? hm

If anybody wants to see the current design. This version needs some more work, just, if anybody wants to see it.

i like the design. Maybe change laser solo and last hook part to the end and imo its ready. The laser part feels a bit weak just 1 laser + is the easiest xD. the rest feels great and smooth.

maybe hitler is too much and since kenzo is calling ravie a communist, we should call ravie stalin?

yeah the design is changed already, i just don't see a reason to upload, since this is "declined"

as an ex tester you should know it's possible to change decisions and status and even upload the same but reworked map again in

so don't act like a victim

channel should be $reset since mapper is working on the map to see if it's going to the right direction

and stop telling lies about "missclick" that you have to confirm

03.11 12:44 - you left 04.11 15:02 - you rejoined

maybe he left multiple servers and just spammed thru people are retared and are in 100 discords

the smell of drama

I explained myself in the

channel.

tldr

reading is for smart ppl

as an ex tester you should know it's possible to change decisions and status and even upload the same but reworked map again in

This map is good already and doesn't need a rework. I don't accept that i am forced to rework.

i just don't see a reason to upload, since this is "declined"

I meant that

declined doesn't mean it's over

It feels like it is over. Especially, because the testing lead is against this map.

I accept the decline and it's consequences. I hope others can do the same. I will leave now because when i am on a discord server, it's hard for me to ignore that server and i need to focus on my uni stuff these days. It doesn't mean that i never come back. Maybe tomorrow idk. It does mean, that i don't enjoy communicating here.

led by emotions