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https://ddnet.org/testmaps/?map=Adorenarine_2

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keep messages testing related in testing channels

part cheatable

here is a problem I will mention many time in the map, when 1 player in doing a part the other one do some moderate hook, 1 tee can be carry all the map even in duo

same here, 1 do an hard part, and the second just hook

the deep is cheatable in many ways, this way is easy + even in t0 it's not intersting to have only 1 deep and everyone cheat

1 tee just did a long deep with a hard part and now it's novice

same problem

here the same again, 1 is doing 3 hook moderate level, and the other do and insane part + deep

i feel like it's not adrenaline type, it feels like playing milk, and they is some other like that, but this one is the most "unadrenaline type"

the little arrow in yellow are a throw in t0, it skips way too much, we can't let that skip

again, 1 tee (in red) do a long deep/part, and the other do 1 hook

back to moderate ? why is that in an insane map

lil skip, can hook from where is vena

the part from the last screen is rly hard/failly (in duo) then the second player do a hook + hammer, again unbalanced

also cheatable here

$waiting

ah i forgot, the dj in the noobfilter is horrible

on first map Adorenarine missing kill tiles Adorenarine

lmao

Thanks for testing. I have fixed all the things you mentioned and in my opinion i found a pretty good way to bring more balance into the parts you showed. Of course it makes the map even harder now. But i wouldnt say that you could just drag people through easily because every part is still very faily. Doesnt matter, it should be better now.

You "skip" literally 2 parts with a high risk of dead and only in t0

i made it almost impossible now anyway

made ground line freeze, so the jump works well now

i cant give you the map right now as all the changes need to be reworked in design first, which will take a bit, just talking about progress being done. Thanks

red pixel , strange lines .

maybe close hols in arts

weird grass main

thats how hte default one is

afaik

bro you serious

im not gonna make this pixelperfect stuff

+weird lines

gameplay breaking please fix

Pls

pls perfect kani

If you don't do it, you will break the part giving gaps for skips

Sorry for the delay. As mentioned: changelog:

made changes in most of mentioned parts fixed various "skips" fixed kani graphics in logo fixed graphics behind mascots (filled holes) minor changes in design of whole map

work only with weak

rectangle : what is that ????? arrow : still easy to cheat

annoying freeze

open this tile for qol

doesn't rly matter, but can go in tele instead of passing the hook up

is this intended way, to hook then go back in tele ? + now it swap the tee and the second player dont do the next part.

the noobfilter is still the same horrible dj

maybe an arrow, because the undeep is hidden

you didn't change this part , not interesting + cheatable

$waiting

whats the problem?

the "cheat" is just not worth the effort, its literally 2 parts and u would need to leave someone behind.

nah its not? Its super easy now because u will most likely get through lol. Before u always touched ground which made u fail. That wont happen anymore. Its 100% straight now

it really doesnt matter if that part is "cheatable" I dont see a reason to change it. Its not that easy as you claim

forcing the part ok, but forcing with 3 stoppers + ninja and you wait the ninja too finish for the part, because you don't put the shield in the good position. it's a bad fix.

the cheat is clearly easy and the next parts are not easy + failly you have to fix, 2 player do the parts then in t0 you put a dummy and hammer gg.

yes nvm it's good now

stop letting free cheat, if it was made like a "fast and pro way" ok, but it's just a free cheat + as i say this part is low brut and not rly interesting

why do we still have these noobfilter

it's just frustrating to have to redo a solo before playing the map. Team exist so i don't understand their usefulness in such a map like that

it's not even a t0 map

i will rework the part

i still think its not worth but i will close it/only downwards possible

i mean its clearly a filler part but i can think of something different

people like to play noobfilters :P Map is actually for t0

anyway thx for another test, i will try to fullify your tips

noobfilter is okay on maps like these but if its any shorter map noobfilters shouldnt be a thing imo

for me it works fine both with weak and strong?xd

issues should be solved now

4 design bugs

thx for checking. Up is not a bug, right is not a bug, left is a bug(missing hookable entitie) and down (missing kill tile entitie) is a bug, once again thx for checking =]

there is no hookable on left

yes, left and down are bugs and will be fixed, big thx for checking the map =]

when adoragarine

?

this one is a dumbo bug made by me. Will be fixed. Once again big thx for checking 🙂

1 freeze in ht block and small artifact

too many decorations for hd, also hd makes funi bugs like this

deep almost invisible

I forgot about hd graphics thx for checking will be fixed and yeah deep was done to more yellowish background will think about something better. Thx for checking the map =]

design fixes will be made when all the gameplay stuff is done

this part is stopped to work (red line how it works now, blue - how it used to work)

i'm pretty sure 1 shield on the bottom is enough

lmao thanks! didnt think of that when i closed it

fixed the part so it will work again. Design fixes coming soon

This is fine? or should we leave it like that?

I redid it and it turned out like this

I think it should be better this way

than like this

look at your taste))

At least make it equally spaced

Hi, hookthrough is correct and won't be changed ("scaffolding" is inside the walls and thats intended) the unfreeze however have been changed and in next version will be probably like this :

thank you for your suggestions, please check whole map maybe you will have more suggestions =] I like the idea with the stars near ends of unfreeze and I will look into it ^^

why doesnt the right or bottom unfreeze have the stars too? or is it just undeep

I just threw it in for the idea

add the same anfreeze icons everywhere

sorry my bad i wrote unfreeze but I meant undeepfreeze (only undeepfreeze have "sun" icons to make it more recognisable) unfreeze will stay only as lighter graphics without any additional icons

well, or you can make something from defrosting darker or lighter, I’m not trying to persuade you, I’m just suggesting ♥

anyone up for gameplay testing with me?

when

i can if u wanna

thx for replies, i will come back to you next week when im back from vacations

just make one sun (that texture) instead of spamming it all the way

you up?

ну

ye

wanna go?

flw me

after last test there were done few changes (if someone will want to test the map then please keep on hold) new version of the map will be uploaded in next week

$waiting

Include a changelog after uploading map updates (preferably with screenshots).

just kidding

please don't ban me from testing

Include a changelog after uploading map updates (preferably with screenshots).

dear testing team please remove what arylz uploaded (thats not official).

not going to check what you have changed (map is too big to find if a change was done as suggestion or if it was a trollish move =P) If however you are interested in helping us in improving the map then please upload screenshots with suggestions =]

But it doesn't have 🆙 emoji only ☑️

I can 🆙it if you want

hi

I know its not uploaded, I wanted it to be removed bcs many mappers and players check the maps by going into test channel and taking the latest map file. I don't know what was done in that version so I don't want them to test/check map for nothing.

u should ping someone who can delete this

A few gameplay adjustments according to triki were made. Also all the previous changes got designed by Tsin. Color of Deepfreeze was changed, so it wont be invisible sometimes with the background.

sometimes

good mapper

best mapper

konsti the best

best mapper ❌ best afk player ✅

pink rat best rat

xd, better tell some helpfull improvement instead of complimenting me

is deepfly on on purpose?

yea probably since its in the server settings

but im just asking in case u forgot it

Yes, i dont like the ddnet setting disabling it on default

stoppers in the middle arent marked even tho the other ones are 🤪

same on the triplet of stoppers to the right of it (i guess its intentional)

can u pls put the ❗ a little higher, u cant see it fully with normal zoom

i would appreciate it if u made it clearer what unfreeze, freeze and teleport is xd

u can hammer the player to the position of the pillar, then hook + hammer to get him over to skip

it triggers me that the right teleport doesnt have freeze in it xd

is this supposed to be a duo part? u can just solo swing + dj its very easy

would be cool if u would indicate which wall to jump against cause like this is just a gamble

u need to be consistent with the black and white tees for setup order. On a different part on this map black was second while its first in this one

it's a bit tricky to map, but if you use offset (pos x and pos y), you can make your secret way design fit to the entities xd

i think hammer on should be more to the left so people can see it easier that the no-hammer player has to go in there or u could make a sign before the part perhaps

this sign isnt marked in entities

• its very hard to see the unfreeze here

this button is not marked and can be cause weird interactions in bigger groups, i guess the best solution is to make the first button last for 5-10 minutes, so the whole team can pass the door

just my personal take: i think these jumps are too punishing right before the end considering there are a lot of nobos playing this in t0 but i guess u wanna see them suffer

Noice map

personally really like the structure of the map

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

stoppers not showed - intentional, with group of three stoppers it visualy looked ugly ^^

clearer unfreeze, freeze and teleport graphics (if Konsti will allowe me then yeah I could give it a try)

wall jump (7th screenshot) - on logic, why would you wanna jump to wall under the tee ? xD (insane "3" stars - using brain is required for all players)

offset, secret way - I did though about it but by just changing it on existing layers it would break the map. You would need to add an extra layer or even few only for those secret ways. To make it look perfect you would need 1-2 hours to make a rly perfect fit. Map will be finished by 70 players(I hope so) and all secret ways will be checked by like 5 players xD. It's just not worth it to make any change in those areas ^^

button (13th screenshot) - yeah, thats a rly good take. Thats rly important because we want the map to be played in bigger groups. There will be a change done (switch layer or visual or both if needed).

"which one of these undeeps has unfreeze" - don't wannt add an extra layer just to indicate that there is unfreeze in undeep... so yeah I will talk with Konsti about it =]

Everything gameplay related is Konstis take so it's up to him.

BIG thx for checking the map =] Sadly from screenshots I don't know who else helpd in map checking =/

"on logic, why would you wanna jump to wall under the tee ? xD (insane "3" stars - using brain is required for all players)" thats not an argument at all imo. its a konsti map with weird setups. why the hell not could it be the lower wall

hmmm its an insane "3" map. Every player on that level knows how tee mechanics works. Jumping and just hitting the lower wall will make you fall down straigh into kill tile so everyone knows that the player needs to bounce of the tee to land on edge =] If you would put a tee inside there then I rly don't know why would anyone wanna jump to lower wall. If the goal would be to jump to lower wall then there wouldn't be a point in puting a tee inside that deep freeze in the first place. 🙂

funny thing is u dont just stay on the wall

u bounce

its close

so "fall down straight into kill tile" is a lie

It depends on the way you jump. If you just jump up from the bottom you will still have upwards momentum at the wall and bounce against the tee from the bottom

ofc the top wall might be the more obvious choice but the lower wall isnt ridiculous

i guess u can keep it like this if u r so sure of it

ahhh thats what you guys had in mind then yeah my mistake. Apologies for writing about it in the first place. You both are right. 🙂

Indicating would be better and not have anyone in need of connecting dummy to figure out the exact setup 👍

Will talk with Konsti about it and we will make a proper change (visual or gamelayer). Knuski was right in the first place by mentioning it, my mistake sorry =]

Thanks for testing and constructive feedback. Also im happy that you like the map. I will apply a fix for the gameplay stuff in the next time and Tsin will watch about the design things

admitting mistakes

, coke would never

the mentioned things were fixed :)

Map :lady_beetle: :

sorry, wrong version

Map :lady_beetle: :

is this a bot bug or real map bug and if its a map bug then maybe you could point me in the right direction how to solve it =] also this bug was pointed out when map was first uploaded but in june when updated version was uploaded then bot was silent ? (or maybe bot had a bug with showing info and now its working again) either way please help ^^

it's a bot bug

currently it does not recognize bezier curves

iirc

thank you very much for information =]

huh

I fixed that some time ago o.o

yup, 9 months ago

ist twmap-check not updated yet perhaps?

Let me check

Fixed

weird, it was still on version 3.1.0

I regret to inform you that there has been an internal vote about this map which clearly decides that your map is unfortunately going to be declined. We are aware that this is probably a little frustrating as it seems like you really put in quite some effort in it. Let me express the issues: The parts of the map are mostly fine individually and even unique with some good ideas. Even though some of them still have issues. However, the main reasons as to why this is declined is because the parts mostly don't really harmonize with each other, making the whole map feel off and unpleasing to play. Additionally the map is unfortunately not well structured and feels unclean (also in comparison to the first Adorenarine). It feels like you mixed things that shouldn't be mixed. But that also makes room for some good news at least: You might well recycle most of the parts and create new maps with it. We are looking forward to it and hope you understand. 👍

Your map submission has been declined.

Ok this is unexpected

sadly the testers dont agree with me. i find this map fun to play

same ;C

I don't think anyone expected this

xd Testers just dont want to put any effort into testing anymore, decline is easier

3 out of 5 of the "secret voting" voters didnt even play the map

how to demotivate a mapper in one step guide

tbh this late declines hurt. He submitted it in february and changed/fixed a lot. Not a good testing workflow imo. Test->suggestions->fixes-> decline sucks

ye it sucks

well its often (?) like that. testers who see potential in something keep testing a map but the testers who made up their mind long ago already about declining a map decide to wait for some reason

Everyone who is complaining right now could have tested the map beforehand instead of being disappointed about how it went now, it's also not nice for us 🤷‍♀️

The decision to decline a or this map is fully okay. Just the process is questionable imo. "parts dont hamonize with each other/ not well structured" wasnt part of the feedback the first 5 month or?

The decision is because of the internal vote. The reasons stated are just my personal opinion and the reason why I voted against a release. I thought I might as well just give it my POV as a sort of feedback

ah okay. For me it was written like a statement of all testers^^

just do a silex and resubmit it forever

isnt it curious that no one shares the opinion of the 4 testers, that voted no, from which 2 never played the map?

Why is there even an internal vote? just make it public but only testers can chat

just for clarification: if testers vote without taking a serious look at a map, that's an issue and it should be addressed. we are talking about the situation in the tester chat. from my perspective the votes should not count, if the voters didnt really take a look at the map, but i can't decide that on my own 😅

The Adorenarine 2 Situation is Crazy

"if u want to vote for a map, insert ur testing demo here"

start to put some effort into testing guys

how can u vote decline if u didnt see the map at all

get tester role and random vote maps, this one is easy, nobody ever will ask if u take a look at the map

Such votes should be transparent and well-argued for everyone. Six months of fixes and reworks, only to get a decline for a map the community wants to see... It's crazy.

Tester role feels really elitist atm.

tester roles are the least elitist they've been for a while now 😃

since this is heavily contentious i'm sure it won't hurt for those who voted f4 to explain why

to be transparent, i abstained since i never played this map

i dont see why u cant do some small reworks and resubmit though

What? You never played the map and make suggestions for small reworks?

as in make the parts harmonize again and then resubmit

i guess it's not small reworks xd

No it's not, that's why it's declined and not waiting for mapper

The issue is that obviously no one wanted to decline this because you can tell the map was a lot of work but apparently there just aren't the testers who see potential in this map and would make it ready, it could as well just stay in testing forever but no one wants that

To the community point: I was very hyped for this map first as well until I tested it (and I played it 3 times) and I really wonder how many people of the community actually played the map and complain based off that as the people I tested it with also weren't quite happy with the map If there have actually some playthroughs been made then you should've given reasonable feedback here beforehand and this could've helped to prevent this from happening

However, we are currently disccussing this issue and waiting for statements

ehhh again I have to write a wall of text, everyone sees a problem and nobody writes it in a proper way ehhh..... or maybe I am the only one bored enough and have satisfaction from writing things that only 2 people in the world will read ^^

Where to start ehhh (drama mode activated, grab coffee this will be long xD) "However, we are currently disccussing this issue and waiting for statements" I have no idea for whom those statements would be for....

We all know that map was voted without testing. Those statements now will be just pure creativity (wouldn't be surprised that chatgpt would write them).

Lets summarise... Map was created and in chunks shown to various players and previous tester group members (nobody told Konsti to stop and they wanted more).

In closed tests it was accepted and just would need some tiny more changes in final testing (normal thing for every map). All Konsti had to do was to deliver final version with all the graphics.

We made our selfs a deadline but we couldn't manage it and in the meantime testers group members changed.

After map was added to public testing it was seen and played by lots of players and mappers only not by those who can vote.

Don't know who else voted but I know that:

• Pipou voted no without checking the map
• Freezestyler don't like Konsti (for whatever reason) and thats probably the real reason for his decline
• Vena don't like me and he is a hammer hit map lover
• Knuski played the map and likes it

Who else voted I have no idea.... Can trial testers vote ? if not then why Freezestyler had a vote (if he ofcourse had one) ?

Maybe Welf. He was added recently to the team and he will just vote how Pipou and Vena voted. Ofcourse if he had a vote - don't know.

Sooo many questions and nooo answers.. bummer 😦

About this statement "Additionally the map is unfortunately not well structured and feels unclean" First of all huh ? Map was in the work for one year. Instead of writing vauge and meaningless statements in one minute maybe open editor copy the parts and show us all how you see it to be better structured. One year of work and one one minute vauge statement (complete lack of respect for someones hard work).

Maybe its just of testing group hating me!. Good that I told other mappers (whos maps are now in testing) to not tell that I helpd them (it would probably happen to all those maps).

I don't understand how is it possible that map gets declined only because of few testers. On ddmax I haven't liked many maps and I still released them and they were very popular. Map can't be declined only because its not my taste. Lets face it current team likes hammer hit maps sadly this is not a hammer hit map.... Decling a map because you don't like it just stupid. Theres lots of players from various regions that would like to play it(no they don't want to play beta version - they want to have a rank and points from struggle so beta testing versions don't count). Thats why there are testing groups to deliver them a final version. Probably non of current map testers like any of maps. Have you ever seen asian region ??? My maps are played there almost everyday. Only because you don't like a map it doesn't mean it don't deserve a release.

I'm writing it on behalf of myself and lots of other mappers who now feel unsafe (no they won't write here because they don't want to have their maps declined in future because of some stupid vengeance or something).

Have no idea why would any mapper would even want to submit their maps. You submit a map, the map is in someway "accepted" and you make tiny fixes here and there for almost half year (or more) and at end you get declined without any real reason without any screenshots without anything (complete lack of respect for someones countless hours spended in editor).

If the map would have problems with "structure" or being "unclean" (nobody here knows what the author had in mind) then it would be declined on second of march.

From what we've all seen I don't realy see a point of asking anyone from current testing group sooo

you are a community team member please take a look at it. One or two weeks ago I've already mentioned problems with how some testers treat mappers. That person wrote me that he agrees with me but he don't have energy to do anything about it now. Murpi you are now our only hope.

To ALL map testers I truly admire your hard work and I know how sometimes its time confusing (especially that no one pays you for that). I've been there, done that (I know how you feel). BUT cmon respect must go both ways(mapper and map tester) you can't just decline a map after you guys wanted tiny fixes to be done.

Just to make it clear I don't want anyone to be removed from testing group that would only cause more harm then it would help. For now I just think that theres a problem in communication between community(including mappers) and map testing group.

However about one of testers I will send a demo of his behaviour to Murpi (I don't think that such a person with such an attidude should in any way represent testing group).

ps. to that map realeasing I'm not saying that all maps should be released. No no, maps still need to be creative and nicely designed. I gave my maps as a reference to just show that theres lots of players who like diffrent style of mapping(talking about mapping style not about outdated gameplay/standards to be relased).

trial testers are part of internal votes

its good but also bad.... Everyone can vote even if that person haven't seen or played the map or just seen it and disliked the style =/

That‘s a joke is it?

I understand that you are annoyed by the situation, but speculations about who voted and why are going quite personal.

We are working on getting a statement from everybody who voted to write their opinion and check if they played the map.

We even had a heated debate about communication issues in the tester channel today 😅

pls dont just spread random assumptions on things you dont know are real or not. "Pipou voted..." false. (abstained from voting) "Welf [...] will just vote..." false. (abstained from voting)

Vena doesnt like hammerhit actually

I wrote what people told me about voting Remember that I wrote "I write it all on my behalf and lots of other mappers" If you guys feel diffrent or that its hurting any one of you then feel free to show us all its diffrent. The lack of communications and how things are done just end in this kind of assumptions from community.

Vena likes hammerhit, Vena dislikes t0

"poor easy mapping"

and writing one minute statements comparing to mappers countless hours just don't prove us that we are wrong. I would love to see you guys change that.

hmmm does this mean u want to see the vote?

personaly I don't care about the vote. I want to see better treatment for all the mappers and especially beginners not just "map don't meet standards decline" Maybe community wants to see it don't know, maybe votes should be in the map test channel.

The most im interested in truly adding something more to statements not just "not well structured" "uncleaned".

If you feel offended then ehhh what can I say maybe try to be in boots of the mapper who spended lots of hours. Maybe you do have a better idea for structure of the map. Sometimes images are worth more than thousand words you know =]

ahhh and would forget didn't I nor Konsti asked anyone to support or write anything in this channel. Everyone done it on their own without. Those who wrote something or just left a emoji done it because they see how Konsti was treated and it was not nice.

"map don't meet standards decline" yep. thats a really demotivating way of declining. this should not happen there needs to be a lot of substance to decline something (which is not always the case sadly)

Also please remember that what you write you don't write to me but to all the mappers. They just rly don't want to be attached to this because of being scared of decline in future (ddnetmafia didn't came from nowhere you know). I just wrote because I will probably never submit any of my own maps so I don't care if someone will want to decline "me" in future =]

if you or any other mapper with a declined map meets a "bad" or too short/vague decline reason you can ask the decliner to expand on his reasons. You can also contact other testers to take a look or even a higher authority if no one is willing to help. But i know that "future maps" arent the issue at hand here. Ofc you want this map to have a proper reason for it to be declined. The only thing that would help you rn is if Freezy or any of the other no-voters post some more stuff about the decline (preferably using images)

truly I don't want this map to be declined at all the time for decline was 5 months ago and everyone knows that. This is the biggest problem that every mapper sees that and some of map testers still not.

I want to mention that the best way to change the testing system is to join the team. Some things don't go well because of the lack of time. And as i mentioned we are having internal discussions on this whole issue, please give us time to clear things up internally.

can u let chatGPT write it down what is going on in testing channel

this was very great last time 😄

undecline the map make it ready and have all the time you want for changing anything you want =] Guys the more you write about statements just puts you in the bad position. The statement you will write will look nice and will be beautiful and you will "prove" us that map should be decline but that won't solve anything.

I will write it again. Mappers and players see that this map should be released stop searching for answers in a cristal ball or something. The only way to get out of this whole situation with face is truly to find some tiny things that should be changed in the map and after tiny fixes change status to ready.

where do u get your information from about who tested and who didnt?

kinda weird statement to assume that ppl didnt test cause u didnt saw it

not even the testing team knows if there were testers who voted without testing

im waiting for pipou to make a song about this

I already wrote that I'm not going to throw names and you know why. If you don't know why then you are not one of this kind of people.

you already proved that you don't know anything

I don't have to prove anything. I see that defense mode is on =] lets have fun xD Like I wrote Im talking on my behalf and disapointed mappers and players. If you don't understand then its your problem not mine. I wrote what I think (mostly it was about the accept of this map) everything related to vote (its sad that map testers focused only on that) and how mappers are treated comes from many people. I just dont have anything to lose ^^ Attacking me means attacking all of them soo watch your words.

the added teles to fix the skip really hurt this part, its way harder to get a good swing now but maybe its just me

found by tatak: bottom person can hook the other person falling, swing up and get the person in to skip the next part

Konsti did test that with dummy so I think it could be good for insane category. If map will be undeclined I bet that Konsti would love to get into more details about various parts of the map (however so far it looks like instead of undecline there will be some useless statement and defense mode from other testers)

about lower screenshot when I was making design for changed part I mentioned that to Konsti. I bet he would gladly talk about it.

however If I rememeber correctly you must come to this part with deepfreezed tee so you still have to do it the proper way so getting a tee from top to tatak(main) position wont give anything (I might be wrong) Konstis map =]

u have undeep up there for the tee on the bottom then for the skip: all tees can go the way suggested by the arrow

ahh yeah that makes sense (like I wrote not my map only help with design) =] I also don't remember all the parts, I help with tooo many projects to rememeber them all ^^

still better than decline is just to show where map have problems sometimes its just tiny fixes (adding more kill tiles here and there xD)

skip with freezehammer

would be cool if you could add the black and white tees in design so u see who goes first here.

(ofc u dont need to fix if map stays declined. maybe u wanna resubmit in some time)

aint that 2 ways of doing the part you can make that "freezehammer" or just fall down into tele, make swing, catch tee and then drag up and hammer near the top. Don't think its a skip =] I think its more like if you know how to make "freezehammer" do it if not then do the swing =]

https://tenor.com/view/xdd-xdding-cat-cute-cursed-gif-27104766

https://tenor.com/view/tea-good-morning-love-messages-gif-25662378

i mean at least the declines are getting more informational compared to that purple guy

no clue why i read all of this but it is very interesting to go trough

yep i always say that because i didn't see good hh map yet

Isn’t that your own opinion since a lot of players enjoy current hh maps released? 😄

i know i took part in this, but venas opinion on hammerhit is offtopic.

since when enjoying = quality ? and y of course I exaggerated.

I tested it with Konsti and he was against most of the changes I told him. To give you an example. This map have unbalance. Red tee just carry green tee. And what did the green one do? Nothing.

this is one is actual is moderate part in insane map with one attempt. this part is long with no reason. For me, the part has the same problem as the 2longer map. #deleted-channel its long and boring. And that's what I told him a long time ago And he fixed it? nope. And just so you understand, this is the very beginning of map part 2. All map have problems and that's why it was declined. He at least got specific examples from me of what he should change, but he didn't do anything.

this is my history of helping with this map.

triki this is a subjective point of view. Let me explain in this questions:

1. does the second tee need to do something in every part ?

if yes then

2. How much must the second tee do in every part. On this example its obvious that second tee must do something or first tee won't be able to proceed further.

please also keep in mind that this is "first" part of the map the goal of this part is make player feel that map is easy =]

this is a common practice can be found on many maps also on insane maps 1 star or 4 stars: https://ddnet.org/mappreview/?map=sus%27terism

first 2 parts are easy

https://ddnet.org/mappreview/?map=1AndOnLyLife

first parts is not insane 4 stars =]

its just to make the player feel that map is easier

Please stop gaslighting, this is valid feedback and you wished for it. The unbalanced issue is one of the reasons that made me complain about structuring as well by the way. And yes, triki is right that this is not only the case in the first part but more often.

im not gaslighting anything i asked 2 questions if the second player must do something in every part on the map also how much the second player must do to get someone satisfied ?

for this kind of discussions was time five months ago not after fixes that that were more like qol improvements before release

There has to be some balance to the players, otherwise it's an issue/not well planned On novice that wouldnt matter too much, but on insane maps there should be no way of getting carried through the parts, because the better player does all the parts

check vena screenshots and changes done to the map

Imo i think its fine to have a few chill parts in an insane map since the noob is gonna pop on harder parts anyway But i dont know how many of these easy parts are in this map so cant say if its unacceptable

Konsti said "But i wouldnt say that you could just drag people through easily because every part is still very faily." so they disagreed with the testers' feedback back then. In those cases it's hard for the testing team to work with the mappers on their maps.

does the second tee need to do something in every part ? - Both need a play, so the answer is yes. How much must the second tee do in every part. - I can't just explain it, but I'll give it a try. If one plays for 5 seconds, the other should play for about 5 seconds, on the same skill difficulty. So the answer for your part will be about 20 seconds, I'm warning you I wasn't sitting there with a stopwatch.

"Please stop gaslighting" The person is upset, and they are sparing the issues that are important to them, so I don't consider it gaslighting. So these are normal questions for me.

the thing you described is that they must do equal with such a way of doing this then almost every map would be locked to 2 player teams =/

this map was created for team 0 experience where they can chillout play and chat but they still need to be aware to not be tooo much chilled out couse map is on insane and it will be easy to fail

"for this kind of discussions was time five months ago not after fixes that that were more like qol improvements before release" It's not my fault you didn't ask these questions five months ago. When I mentioned these problems.

do u have any other question to me and my helping history?I don't want to leave the discussion in the middle.

the map can be played as 2 players and should be balanced (part distribution) for 2 players a tester mentioned these issues 5 months ago and now you complain that we reopen the issue, after you asked for feedback?

welf if those so things were sooo much important 5 months ago and without them map would be decline then why you moved on and pointed and other things.

You haven't seen them as important or you seen them as fixed, thats why you moved on.

Triki I helpd in design of this map so I didn't had to ask any question 5 months ago. I and other members of community (including many mappers) see how Konsti was treated thats why Im here now.

Just because we mention different issues, it doesn't mean that some of them are not important. I don't understand your reasoning.

if "major" things are not done (in testers opinion) then whats the point of moving on with other and smaller things ? like I wrote earlier you haven't seen them as important or you see them as fixed.

That's just not how testing works. There are different testers and different opinions within the testing team. One tester can't decide on their own, where to force the mapper to do stuff and testers usually try to find all the issues they have with a map, instead of waiting for the most important issues to be fixed before moving on. If we changed this process, it would mean just more time effort and more frustration for testers. You can't conclude, that pointing out more issues means that the past issues are fixed.

ehhh I see you don't get it.

Non of you alerted back then that this things are not fixed or not changed(ofcourse testers opinion) you like nothing ever happend all moved on.

Suddenly after 5 months of fixes and changes its declined.

Thats why many mappers and players from community see it disturbing. Non of the mappers want to be in this kind of situation.

Instead of declining it should have been some kind of warning to mapper to sit down and talk about whole map and what rly (if ofcourse) needs to be changed/fixed.

That whole restructure of entire map is just vauge and fast one minute to make any reason to decline (this was complete lack of respect to mappers hard work).

No mapper wants to be treated this way. Thats why there is this kind of big concerne.

As soon as you all will understand it the less this kind of pushing side to side will happen.

all the players and mapper who have showned their disapprobation in writing and in emojis don't want this map to be declined. They don't want any statements. They want the map to be undeclined and that someone will sit down with the creator and show what real fixes still need to be done (not whole restructure of the map).

to all testers please ask your self simple question if after spending lots of hours (days/months) any one of you would want to be in this kind of situation and on end receive info that you must start all over !!!

I bet not.

This map don't need whole start from stratch. It probably needs some more quality of life improvements and more annoyances removed but not whole restructure.

welf don't

just don't

Are you just telling me to not write an answer after you wrote a whole page? That's not fair.

read what I wrote. Nobody wants vauge fast answers..... and stop seeking attention

and hes still writing oO

welf today ? =]

calm down lol

I understand that the current situation is very frustrating. This map is a tough one, so it takes alot of effort to test it. As i tried to explain, forcing a mapper to change an issue can't be done easily by one person. The major issue, that this map (andothers) were in testing for many months, was cause by the fact, that the testing team is rather inactive. But please give us some time instead of demanding, what we can't give you. We are making sure, that this map gets a fair treatment. We had to ping the ones who voted and asked for statements, i even followed one tester who voted in-game and asked for a reason for their vote. Tsin please stop these comments of yours. They are not helpfull at all and even wrong.

yes i know this is a lil bit insulting but he just didn't care what I wrote above.

Dear BumM i full am =] I have no idea what makes you think the opposite. Welf just always needs to write something to be in center of attention 🙂 (thats probably the reason why I always liked him xD)

🍿

probably too late for popcorn... I think we ended for tonight 🙂

just put the fries in the bag and resubmit it

if someone from tester team feel hurt then sorry thats not my intention I just try to show what many people feel about all of this and how many mappers don't feel safe with their own creations.

please stop thinking so highly of yourself, the way you are treating others (especially testers) is very disrespectful and no, we are not talking to „all mappers“ when we talk to you.

Additionally stop pretending like you knew everything and stop pretending to know everything better. You‘ve created LOTS of fake news and made false claims.

You achieve nothing with your behavior and we are still going to review this case, even without your input.

So please stop being annoying.

Sorry for being so brutally honest but I think this had to be said.

and we have the first one that completly don't get it. Its not about me. It never was and never will be. Stop thinking that something is about me or you will just have more unreasonable hate towards me.

about fake news or false claims you are probably refereing all the time to the vote thing. Vote thing is what most of people think (how we all can know if they were secret). Oddly many people picked up the same "claims". I also have no idea why you all can't stop thinking about the votes. Move along and focus on more important things that I wrote.

sick map when release

go vote in the new thread bro

Yes it's really odd, that you (and many others?) are picking up wrong claims.

Many people read this and ask me lots of things so I will just use this channel (don't want to reply to everyone one by one) xD I told many of you that this map won't be released if the map would be released then something would have happend on saturday night. I also wrote to many mappers and players that instead of seeing what everyone wants they (testers group) will just try to make a villain out of me. To players don't expect anything. To mappers if you don't want to be in the same situation maybe start making your maps for other servers and ofcourse check from time to time if something improved here(ddnet) =]

I tried but instead of reading what matters the most they focus on completly not important stuff.

From now on I will be only copy pasting what I wrote earlier about disaprobation from community and what everyone expect to happen about undeclining and sitting down with the creator (and not making whole restructure or whatever it was).

Nobody is making a villain out of you. You are making a villain out of the entire testing team.

I wrote few times that I admire testers and I personaly know what it feels like also I wrote even today: "if someone from tester team feel hurt then sorry thats not my intention I just try to show what many people feel about all of this and how many mappers don't feel safe with their own creations." Now many poeple think that you guys (testing team) focus tooo much on yourselfs when theres no point in that (players and especialy mappers want you to focus only on us and "our needs" - damn that sounded terrible but you know what I mean). I truly wanted to be in this whole chat in the middle of both sides and just to be the channel to go through in the discourse so yeah if map testing team feels bad then once again not my intention at all.

i dont get what u mean with focus tooo much on yourselfs. how is it testing related? Or do you mean that testers only ready maps that they personally like and decline the ones they personally dislike without making a somewhat objective analysis?

I was thinking how to reply to that to not make anyone feel like im attacking someone. Maybe something like this. If everything would be done how community sees it then we wouldn't have this discussion at all. Nobody wants any statements nobody wants any internal checks. People just want undecline and sit down with map creator and try to find a proper solution(not whole restructure redraw of the map). This simple thing will make many players happy and whats most important will calm down many mappers.

a very simple gesture that make everything goes away into the past 🙂 (it would all be only a next nobody care drama xD)

Look, let’s try to catch a glimpse of reality together

Unfortunately this whole thing here is not a wishing well. BUT tonight is a special night, it’s shooting star night, so maybe you can look into the night sky, watch the stars and try to find a shooting star. 💫 I did that too, it was beautiful and I saw 7 of which! ☺️ And if you can find one too you can wish for something and maybe even for this reset to happen. And all that while we are reviewing this whole case and hopefully don’t get annoyed by all this drama. And if things don’t work out the way you wish they will, then you can still simply apply changes (preferably in a way of also restucturing) and re-submit the map again. 💫

I have no idea how to reply so that you won't see it as a attack. I am a realistic kind of person so I will give it a try.

glimpse of reality. falling stars are nothing but just rocks burning in earth atmosphere the only thing they can do is to look nice =]

without reality but with wishes I dont need to wish for anything. I'm a very happy person so I don't need anything but thank you very much. I do hope they(all 7) will give you everything you want I rly do I rly mean it (not a sarcrasm not joking not making funny business or something I truly do and I always want the best for everyone even those that insult me without a real reason) 🙂

about resubmit and this whole reference to falling star you just cleary answered everyone what will happen to this map (not a big surprise for me xD) and no I won't resubmit (I only helpd in design) maybe Konsti(map creator) will but (personaly) I highly doubt it will happen because what for and why would anyone want to do that after all of this ?(remember map was "accepted" all that Konsti had to do was to deliver it for final tests - tiny fixes and qol changes etc, in the meantime testers changed and we are here). Yeah sure that is still possible but as of now I don't know and I can't think of what kind of circumstances would need to occur to make that happen(maybe some special talks/special offer between testers and map creator behind the scenes - I truly can't think of anything right now what would have to happen).

Tsin, If you want to help with the release of this map, the best way is to ask Konsti to fix the problems or do it yourself. It will be better than 1000 words.

triki before I go to sleep. All the screenshots that were submited before decline were fixed or there was a proper answer why something won't be changed. the only thing that Konsti got with decline is this "Additionally the map is unfortunately not well structured and feels unclean (also in comparison to the first Adorenarine)." I have no idea how would anyone even know how to restructure any map so it wouldn't be declined again (mixing randomly parts and calling it a day won't do anything). Now maybe you will know where the whole problem is =]

Oh thank you! While I also don’t really believe in all of that I still think it’s beautiful. I don’t think I insulted you and I didn’t mean to. I also wish you the best.

However, back to topic

I don’t know what will happen to the map and it’s not only in my hands. Obviously my opinion on the map didn’t change as I expresssed my view on the map earlier. I don’t vote against Konsti or you as a person but I think I gave it factual feedback.

Of course it’s unfortunate that the previous testers told you that the map is almost ready but they failed to put it to ready and are not here anymore, so what exactly do you expect us to do if not just trying to test objectively?

However, at the end of all this, the map will either be reset or you will have a more detailed explanation on why it’s declined.

I hope we are somewhat on the same side now and I hope you can understand.

"answer why something won't be changed." - That's the answer to why this map was declined 1 Testers find the problem 2 You didn't fix it and left the problem in the map with the words "will not be changed". 3 ... 4 It's been five months. 5 Your map has been declined Why would you expect a different solution?

For example, the beginning of the map still exist. I'm sure I'm not the first to mention this problem.

about the first part I’ve already explained and even gave you examples from other insane maps.

The things that weren’t changed and we gave a proper information why it won’t be changed I refered to things like why some hidden stoppers are not shown that it was intentional and that by no any means its not going to confuse a player or the things like welf proposed making graphics straight for secret way. Check on screenshots and later see what I replied. This things are good that they were brought up but I clearly replied why they won’t be changed. Please read it and you will agree with me on that.

You however just throw everything into one bag and try to confuse everyone who is reading this.

Before you will make such claims please check all the screenshots provided by team and then compare it with map and later read all our explanations. With that you will know why some things haven’t been changed. If you would compare then I bet you would come into the same conclusion of why things were kept.

Its just easier to write what u wrote without checking. Please don’t do that and if for what ever reason you still want to do that then please give an example of a thing that was mentioned by the tester team and which didn’t had a proper info on why it wasn’t touched.

Triki from whole conversation before decline Ive only found that u agreed to check the map and thats it no screenshots no complaints no nothing. If something was not posted here then please don’t use it against anyone.

I have to disappoint Tsin, I can't change the decision our testers made regarding Konsti's map, but I've proposed changes to the internal voting process to prevent false votes from happening again. I agree that we have a significant issue with the lack of feedback on some map submissions after they’ve been declined. That said, with the proposed changes, testers are now required to give detailed feedback during voting to ensure that everyone who votes has at least tested the map to some extent.

I want to clarify a few things to help everyone understand the current state of testing. I'll try to keep this brief.

Ever since jao’s departure, the testing environment has been in a very rough state. Testing has gotten so stale that even multiple testing leaders couldn’t shake things upand let’s be honest, everyone’s noticed. The ongoing drama, which no one has effectively addressed, has only further deteriorated the map testing environment on DDNet. We hit rock bottom, where nothing was moving forward, and it’s no surprise that there were no tests or communication for months.

In response, we've had to make significant changes to turn things around. I don't want to go into the specifics right now, but most noteably, we no longer have a testing leader and maps now require at least two approvals before being officially released. This shift is our bold step toward making the testing process fully democratic. We no longer have one person to have the final say on anything, every aspect now involves as many testers as possible.

This kind of change does come with a quuuite a few setbacks. A democratic system needs a lot more people to function effectively, so to make this work, we’ve started scouting for more potential testers (which explains why we have a lot of trial testers right now). Another challenge is that we’re essentially starting from scratch. We need to revise all mapping rules, testing procedures, and the entire testing environment. This is new and uncharted territory for our current testers, and it's going to take some time and patience to get it right.

Anyway, with the great new team members we’ve brought on, I’m hopeful we’ll get everything back in line and see improvements in short order.

why dissapoint dont understand I asked you take a look and you did and you now explained nicely things to others mappers why things are and that you all(staff) will try to provide better changes in future. Thats exacly what „I”(many mappers) wanted 🙂

The ongoing internal vote on your map isn’t looking too promising right now. You’ll hear from someone soon with guidance on what needs to be adjusted for it to be released.

(Most likely not just a minor rework though)

(Channel is read-only for now as requested by

)

After further investigations and tests we managed to finally come to an end of this whole procedure.

So, in connection to the testing there was another vote which enforced testers to only vote with appropriate feedback. The results were rather clear as those amount to 0 in favour of releasing the map and 4 people against the release of it.

Let’s head over to the feedback in detail.

One of the main issues addressed was that the parts don’t really feel like they fit to each other. This means that mostly the teleport parts rather feel like they’d belong in a drag map and especially remind of aim-type maps. The other parts however don’t feature such elements and thereby differ heavily in style. This makes playing the map feel off and weird which is unpleasant to have in your map. It’s fine to mix styles but the way you did it is unfortunately just excessive. This leads to the map losing the characteristic feeling for Adorenarine/Adrenaline type maps. This is sad and we think that you can do better as you already showed with your first Adorenarine.

Additionally, there were issues about the balancing throughout the whole map addressed. This does not only include difficulty jumps from insane-difficulty to nearly novice-difficulty which happened frequently (see Screenshot 1 and 2). But rather does this also include the amount of work each player has to do in order to complete the map which is normally supposed to be somewhat equal (see Screenshot 3 and 4). Concerns about Adorenarine being an Adrenaline rip-off were also addressed but towards this whole topic there was not too much attention paid.

The structure of the map was also criticised which also includes the above-mentioned balancing issues. Additionally, the way the parts are put in order is kind of unclear while playing the map. This comes down to lots of unnecessary holes, special tiles (see Screenshot 5, 6 and 7) and other things including underdeveloped parts (see Screenshot 8 and 9). All of this makes the map feel messy while the parts also don’t really feel well connected.

As no one has voted in favour of the map to this point the testing process can’t proceed. The behaviour of the mappers in charge did also have an impact on this decision and why it’d be difficult to get this map in a releasable state. This is because we think that the map needs many changes and a big rework (each tester sees the exact amount differently) and we see a lack of willingness to apply those changes and do much more work. However, you are free to prove us wrong and resubmit the map with the appropriate changes.

You also managed to deliver some very interesting and new parts and are individually mostly really nice. Even though those still need some work as there are smaller issues those are still good and at some places you managed to fit the Adrenaline-style quite well.

For transparency reasons we want to explain what went wrong internally. A few months ago there was a first vote, which went in favor of Adorenarine 2. Sadly the old testing team didn't make the map ready back then. Since nothing was happening in the channel, we started a second vote on the map and it did lead to the decline. After receiving some complaints about it, we pinged the voters who voted without giving feedback and it turned out, that 3 votes could be described as miss clicks, which did lead to alot of internal struggle. As Murpi already mentioned, we implemented a new voting process within a few days while receiving alot of complaints in this channel. Now every tester has to give an explanation about why they voted and the feedback above is the summary of the feedback from the channel. The following screenshots are just examples for the issues and don't show everything we found:

Screenshot 1

Screenshot 2

Screenshot 3

Screenshot 4

__Screenshot 5

Screenshot 6

Screenshot 7

Screenshot 8

Screenshot 9