#Paper-Run
"Paper-Run" by 棉裤 [Solo]
DDNet 03/13/2023 2:26 PM
@棉裤

this is your map's testing channel! Post map updates here and remember to follow our mapper rules: https://ddnet.org/rules

NeZoX 03/13/2023 9:10 PM

The map is very short and unclear, you have no idea where you have to go to open the door. You used a lot of switch on such a small map. Make it bigger and not so tight

NeZoX 03/13/2023 9:11 PM

I don't know where you got the logo, but I really like it

棉裤 03/13/2023 10:38 PM

I know, Thank you appraise. I will make it bigger and don't add lot of switches.

棉裤 03/13/2023 10:38 PM

But, not now~

NeZoX 03/13/2023 11:03 PM

don't get me wrong you can use switch as much as you want just make it clearer

FJP 03/13/2023 11:41 PM

It was an interesting concept, but I think it was poorly executed. The space is way too cramped and even in entities things are confusing. The map consists of redoing the same parts the same way, which is boring imo.

FJP 03/13/2023 11:41 PM

just too much going on

FJP 03/13/2023 11:42 PM

Not to mention the skips that the map has

skip.mov
12.55 MB
FJP 03/13/2023 11:43 PM

Give yourself more room to work with and spread out your ideas so that they are readable

棉裤 03/14/2023 10:31 AM

what

棉裤 03/14/2023 10:32 AM

i never skip...

棉裤 03/14/2023 11:08 AM
棉裤 03/14/2023 11:09 AM

This version add a room. Make close 1 switch more hard.

棉裤 03/14/2023 11:11 AM

And for some player, he forget close switch 5. So, i put switch 5 to grenade.

棉裤 03/14/2023 11:15 AM

I want made it like solo map "RocketIsKey"

棉裤 03/14/2023 11:15 AM

But i am new to mapping...

Arrow 03/14/2023 12:19 PM

You, but maybe the map has

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:19 PM

emm

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:20 PM

i finded 2 skip and fix it.

Welshi 03/14/2023 12:21 PM

Did you fix this one?

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:33 PM

yes

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:33 PM

i fixed

Welshi 03/14/2023 12:38 PM

Nice

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:40 PM

hehe

Gazebr 03/14/2023 12:45 PM

If a player finds a stupid way to do a part there is a 70% chance that they will do it that way instead of looking for a nicer way

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:46 PM

emm

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:46 PM

but

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:46 PM

i never find that "stupid way"...

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:47 PM

but, my friend is good at find "stupid way"

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:48 PM

he helped me find two stupid ways

Welshi 03/14/2023 12:48 PM

I’d argue this is normally fine so long as the way is either: A. Slower B. Fun

Gazebr 03/14/2023 12:51 PM

Idk about A. but for B. - sure

Welshi 03/14/2023 12:54 PM

Well it’s more of an incentive. If the alternative way is slower and boring then while some people will do it, assuming the map is of similar difficulty all the way through it won’t change the overall complexity they will face doing the map, and it will mean better players are more likely to do the part as intended. Especially speedrunners, or anyone looking for a decent rank.

棉裤 03/14/2023 12:59 PM

I thoroughly approve of it!

棉裤 03/14/2023 1:31 PM

I add some part

棉裤 03/14/2023 1:31 PM

but finish this map still can in 1min

棉裤 03/14/2023 1:33 PM

i want high record of it map is 1 min half

NeZoX 03/14/2023 1:35 PM

im finish this map in 32 sec

NeZoX 03/14/2023 1:35 PM

bro

NeZoX 03/14/2023 1:35 PM

xD

棉裤 03/14/2023 1:35 PM

ur pro!

棉裤 03/14/2023 1:35 PM

i finish this map in 51 sec

NeZoX 03/14/2023 1:35 PM

no, you!

棉裤 03/14/2023 1:36 PM
棉裤 03/14/2023 1:39 PM
棉裤 03/14/2023 1:39 PM

Add jetpack part again...

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:13 PM
棉裤 03/14/2023 2:13 PM

Update...

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:13 PM

Make 5 switch hard.

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:14 PM

!

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:14 PM

i get 7 votes!

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:21 PM

Thank give me votes everyone!!!

Gazebr 03/14/2023 2:32 PM

skip

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:33 PM
棉裤 03/14/2023 2:34 PM
棉裤 03/14/2023 2:35 PM

you are soooooooooo pro!!!!!

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:35 PM

i even can't do it...

Gazebr 03/14/2023 2:35 PM

i would say lucky but thanks :D

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:39 PM

fixed

棉裤 03/14/2023 2:39 PM

you must be a expert of skip+pro!

Gazebr 03/14/2023 2:45 PM

i dont know if i hit finish there but its probably still possible (but way harder)

Skystrife 03/14/2023 3:04 PM
FJP 03/14/2023 4:38 PM

I was waiting for this one

Gazebr 03/14/2023 4:43 PM

my tiny brain was limited by the border of the map, so unintelligent

棉裤 03/14/2023 10:36 PM

im going to work

Arrow 03/14/2023 10:38 PM

Hey! I see there is no content on the map so the gameplay is weird and not interesting, also has a lot of cheats due to the nature of the map, is better if you do a new map with a different concept maybe, pls take a looks a recent solo maps, a good example are Weapon Final I

Arrow 03/14/2023 10:39 PM

If you have any question do it in his respective channels

#mapping

and

#questions

and pls read

#📌info

which contains the rules of the mapping in ddnet 😄

Arrow 03/14/2023 10:39 PM

$decline

Skystrife 03/14/2023 11:27 PM

So this clearly is a new mapper and likely a newer player, and your critique is that the map is weird and uninteresting, go look at two of the hardest maps in the game that you probably won’t even be able to do the first part of, and use those as reference without giving any idea of what makes those good maps and not this.

I thought the map was nice for a start, he had some nice simple ideas, but the map is very tight making it a bit annoying to move around. It also has many skips, but it’s likely the mapper didn’t know about the mechanics allowing them, they are also easily fixable(border of unhook around outside or shields in places).

I agree that due to the nature of the map being nonlinear, it’s hard to avoid cheats for a newer mapper. For the future it is much easier to make a more linear map as your first one so you can get more familiar with mapping and concepts.

There are other problems with this map, but just saying the boilerplate “gameplay is weird and not interesting” is not really helpful tbh.

Don’t mean to be rude, I’ve just seen this a lot when maps are declined and it’s sorta become a meme to say the copy paste of “this is not what we are looking for, take a look at other recently released maps”, but imo it really is a problem that should be addressed

Ryu 03/14/2023 11:42 PM

Because it is copy paste, probably has a text document somewhere for different variations

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:13 AM
ds273 03/15/2023 12:16 AM

THIS people here clearly thought the idea behind the map was interesting and worth developing, so therefore it seems wrong to dismiss it as "uninteresting"

I would agree the map cannot be released in its current state because moving around in the map feels awkward due to being mapped too small (very common beginner issue, many mappers start out making maps at the wrong scale), and there are many issues that undermine the map's intended solution. But that is not the same issue as being "uninteresting"

and it's not helpful to say "look at X map" that belongs completely unrelated genre of solo map without elaborating on why that map would provide useful insights

ds273 03/15/2023 12:16 AM

which as far as I can tell, to a new mapper the only thing they would learn is "dont make things so tiny"

ds273 03/15/2023 12:19 AM

Or maybe "dont try to make clever multi-layered parts" which isnt really a good lesson because those kinds of parts can be really cool when done well

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:23 AM

um i played a lot of maps so i definitely have a good reference of what is good or not, im not that experienced in some servers tho, thats why i only test maps that i think i can managed myself, and also with the experience that you gain while you play your mind knows how the parts can be done (most of the time). On the other hand, its really hard to test all the maps with same problems(i've been testing like 1 and half year, imagine the other ones, like coke, and also thats why most of the tester are afk and only test good maps), so is really common that i write most of the time the same thing, also is i try to make it short when this things happens, because they havent read the rules yet, so why should i repeat the things that are already written?

ds273 03/15/2023 12:24 AM

so that you don't accidentally say something wrong to new mappers and give them the wrong idea

Skystrife 03/15/2023 12:26 AM

I’m not saying you have a bad reference of what is good or not, I’m saying your explanation of the decline gave nothing useful to the mapper. It may be similar to things you’ve said before but this mapper and this channel had not seen it so it’s still necessary

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:26 AM
ds273 03/15/2023 12:27 AM

but your statement seems like it is a final answer

ds273 03/15/2023 12:27 AM

how often do you think new people are actually gonna ask what is wrong with their map after being smacked down like that

Skystrife 03/15/2023 12:29 AM

Also the references to weapon final I and II are kinda weird to recommend for a map like this

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:29 AM

i think by reading the rules, and see some recent map is enough to give an idea to the new maper to start a decent map, then the next map may be bad too buth then i can help him to go through in a good direction, here is like nothing to work on

ds273 03/15/2023 12:31 AM

you have to consider what you're actually recommending them to do

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:32 AM

dude, thats why i recommend to read the rules omg

ds273 03/15/2023 12:32 AM

recommending weapon finals tho?

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:33 AM

the map has really good structure of the gameplay, i didnt mean exactly the gameplay you know

Skystrife 03/15/2023 12:33 AM

Also also, the rules are and have been a joke for a while, being completely subjective and not specific to what is or isn’t allowed but that’s a whole different issue that I’ve tried to talk about but clearly won’t get fixed

Skystrife 03/15/2023 12:33 AM

So tbh they don’t help new mappers at all

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:35 AM

ask ravie about that

Skystrife 03/15/2023 12:36 AM

Soapy asked him for years and nothing happened…

Ryu 03/15/2023 12:36 AM

Recommending something to testers

Ryu 03/15/2023 12:36 AM

good joke

Ryu 03/15/2023 12:36 AM

😂

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:37 AM

mmm well yeah, but can explain something in general, and as i said we can work on there

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:38 AM

yep, actually they changed because of soapy but like of many things he said, only like 1 or 2 was taken

Arrow 03/15/2023 12:39 AM

okay, so lets close this topic on this channel, if you want keep talking we should move to other channel

ds273 03/15/2023 12:50 AM
@棉裤

if you'd like, DM me and I can try and help you out with mapping this stuff (making the design more comfortable for players, preventing skips, etc.)

Ravie 03/15/2023 1:28 AM

that's just not true, Soapy kept asking to rewrite the rules, so we did

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:23 AM

what?

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:25 AM

i just to work...

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:25 AM

sorry

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:25 AM

i am going to fix skips...

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:26 AM

i online in 18'o clock ~ 22'o clock

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:26 AM

(china time)

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:28 AM

WWWWHHHAAAATTTT

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:28 AM

so more skips...

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:28 AM

i belive i can fix all skips.

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:32 AM
棉裤 03/15/2023 10:34 AM

i don't want go to made a new map. this map used my more time. i don't want give up.

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:41 AM

now, i am going to make moving area get bigger.

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:43 AM

I saw here message, i am thank to here everyone !

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:49 AM

i'm stupid!!! i put shield on switch 5...

棉裤 03/15/2023 10:50 AM

i will fix it in next version.

棉裤 03/15/2023 11:00 AM
棉裤 03/15/2023 11:25 AM
棉裤 03/15/2023 11:25 AM

I finish it version used 1:04

棉裤 03/15/2023 11:26 AM
棉裤 03/15/2023 11:26 AM

(New version = New skip)

棉裤 03/15/2023 11:29 AM

I don't oppose you find skips and angry for you find skips. I am happy to you find skips!

棉裤 03/15/2023 12:54 PM
棉裤 03/15/2023 12:55 PM

Finish Time in 1:11

Ryu 03/15/2023 12:55 PM
棉裤 03/15/2023 12:56 PM

what?

棉裤 03/15/2023 12:56 PM

What the image mean?

棉裤 03/15/2023 12:57 PM

No tester online...

NeZoX 03/15/2023 12:58 PM

you map Declined

NeZoX 03/15/2023 12:58 PM

xD

棉裤 03/15/2023 12:59 PM

!

棉裤 03/15/2023 12:59 PM

Can i resend it map? QWQ

棉裤 03/15/2023 1:00 PM

im update map

棉裤 03/15/2023 1:00 PM

omg

Gazebr 03/15/2023 3:08 PM

you can resend in

#📬submit-maps

but it will likely also be declined without some major changes (like making parts less tight, fixing skips and so on) since your map is not linear it will be very hard to make the map releasable

Voxel 03/15/2023 3:16 PM

$release

棉裤 03/15/2023 9:05 PM

What is linear map? It is pass part in sequence?

Welshi 03/15/2023 9:07 PM

yes

棉裤 03/15/2023 9:08 PM

emmmm, i think i must be to remake it?