#Hostile_3
"Hostile 3" by Pipou & tatak [Insane]
DDNet 04/12/2023 10:27 PM
@Pipou

this is your map's testing channel! Post map updates here and remember to follow our mapper rules: https://ddnet.org/rules

DDNet 04/12/2023 10:27 PM
nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:27 PM

Finally

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:27 PM

😄

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:28 PM

It's been 7 years since the last hostile

nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:28 PM

I think i played through most of parts before

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:28 PM

I think so too

nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:29 PM

I'm down to test this tommorow when I wake up

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:29 PM

Sure, I'll just add the time cps in the meantime

nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:30 PM

Kk I'll be home from work at 6am then sleep prolly till 14 xd

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:30 PM

Even though it feels awkward to place them at obvious places

nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:30 PM

Map isn't fit to add time cps, it just makes it look worse imo

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:31 PM

Yeah, we'll see what we do about it then

nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:31 PM

Doubt many time cps are needed here tho 5 should be enough

Pipou 04/12/2023 10:31 PM

There are very few places where both tees run together

nothing_ 04/12/2023 10:32 PM

Yeah true

spur 04/12/2023 11:34 PM
spur 04/13/2023 5:02 AM

the gap between this one and the 2nd one is huge, sure the first one is a 4 star brutal and the second is a 5 star, but the difference between this one and 2nd is like 3 stars xd making this at least 2 star insane

spur 04/13/2023 5:02 AM

im guessing this will be 2 star insane or 3 star?

spur 04/13/2023 5:04 AM

map is nice, but this part is so much harder then the rest

nothing_ 04/13/2023 5:15 AM

ur prolly doing it wrong

Pipou 04/13/2023 7:15 AM

probably yes

Pipou 04/13/2023 7:15 AM

and yes, you might not do it properly

Pipou 04/13/2023 7:16 AM

there are multiple ways to do that part

Pipou 04/13/2023 7:17 AM

I'd like to see how you do it

Stepfunn 04/13/2023 2:19 PM

New insane map

Might give it a go today

FrosTribe 04/13/2023 4:33 PM

what a lovely design!

Pipou 04/13/2023 9:37 PM

Thanks 🙂

Pipou 04/13/2023 9:37 PM

Added time cps and removed 1 kill tile

spur 04/13/2023 9:51 PM

what is that 1 kill tile you removed

Pipou 04/13/2023 9:56 PM

Right on the crosshair

Pipou 04/13/2023 9:56 PM

So it's more comfortable

tux 04/14/2023 4:33 PM

I found bugs on a pipouuu map

tux 04/14/2023 4:33 PM

looks beautiful tho

Pipou 04/14/2023 4:35 PM

Thanks

@tux
Pipou 04/14/2023 4:36 PM

Those stones are painful

Pipou 04/14/2023 4:36 PM

I checked them many times

Pipou 04/14/2023 4:36 PM

😄

Pipou 04/14/2023 4:41 PM
nothing_ 04/14/2023 10:26 PM

$ready 2

I.K.U 04/15/2023 8:11 AM

"Parts can't be excessively precise or punishing only to increase the difficulty" one of the random mapping rules other than that dont you need 2 testers to ready a map (mapper excluded in this case)

I.K.U 04/15/2023 8:16 AM

Also a gameplay showcase would be nice since its really hard to see if a part is way harder than the rest or not

Pipou 04/15/2023 8:17 AM

The thing is that it's the principal of the map, kill tiles weren't added only to increase the difficulty

Pipou 04/15/2023 8:19 AM

That's counterproductive

Pipou 04/15/2023 8:20 AM

There isn't just one way to pass the parts

Pipou 04/15/2023 8:21 AM

It's up to you to find the most efficient or comfortable way to complete them

Pipou 04/15/2023 8:22 AM

That's why the map was tested

Pipou 04/15/2023 8:30 AM

The only purpose of those rules were to help novice mappers and to prevent common mistakes. And no, you don't need 2 testers to ready a map but more are required to actually test a map, to have different point of view, to look for cheats (and alternative ways), to test the flow, to look for improvements for speedrunning, to balance the map as a whole, to make it more comfortable (even with kill tiles)..

Ryu 04/15/2023 8:44 AM

Even if the gameplay is good and well tested and the map has been in production for whatever long The fact that this took only a few days to get tested and ready in my opinion is really cringe There are and were several other maps waiting way longer for any help on them and the fact that a tester can just post a map and have it be ok in a few days is just not fair But i guess thats one of the many problems with the testing system that has been brought up many times before that seems to never be a concern for those that profit from it

Gazebr 04/15/2023 8:57 AM

ok so basically the rules are simply a suggestion

Gazebr 04/15/2023 8:58 AM

i get what you mean but its the rules lol, if they dont work for every difficulty or gameplay style they are probably bad or should be more specific about where they apply

spur 04/15/2023 9:37 AM

if i was him id simply state, I made this map so im accepting it. who's stopping me?

spur 04/15/2023 9:38 AM

i wouldn't argue then and im not arguing now xd

Knuski 04/15/2023 10:07 AM

Pipou tested a ton of maps these past days + today. This map got ready quickly because its by a very experienced mapper and a tester helped him to ready it fastly. Thats not really possible on maps with inexperienced mappers. Why would this map sit and wait in testing like other maps if it can be ready very quickly?

Ryu 04/15/2023 10:36 AM

The fact is that if some random submitted this map, one of the so called inexperienced mappers then this would have likely stayed here for a month or two

Ryu 04/15/2023 10:37 AM

But no one seems to see a problem with that, so ill just refrain from typing anymore

Ryu 04/15/2023 10:37 AM

Map looks good and i will prob play it so goodjob

spur 04/15/2023 10:56 AM

he's not wrong btw, if corneum posted a map it would be accepted in less then a week, he's one of the best mappers and the testers would be happy to see him still mapping, but if pipou makes a map and gives it to another person to post it here, it would take a while, experienced mappers maps are like a fast accept since there's no point in teaching them anything if they're the best at it

Ninjed 04/15/2023 11:46 AM

Map looks amazing even if test was not in fair queue

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:45 PM

I don't understand why we'd wait and keep a map in testing when there is nothing left to test. That applies to any map. Those other maps you are talking about actually have many issues, thus, it takes even more time to get them released because mappers lack the experience or they are too easily satisfied with what they make, leading to a poor gameplay and design.

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:53 PM

That's not true. I yearn to see great maps, with barely anything to test, unfortunately that's not often the case. A great map is a great map (to test), no matter who made it. It relies a lot on the mappers during the testing phase starting with their will to edit their map (properly) and the time spent between each step of the testing process (feedback, update and so on).

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:53 PM

An example that comes to my mind is https://ddnet.org/testlogs/show/Electric

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:54 PM

It took a novice mapper less than a month to get his map released, because he was devoted to improve his map gameplay-wise and design-wise

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:55 PM

Also, the more complicated the gameplay, the harder it is to test and to find issues, cheats. The same applies to the design, the more complicated the design, the longer it takes to find bugs

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:58 PM

Hostile 3 is short, with a simple gameplay (few entities) and a very simple design. Moreover, my experience helps a lot to know what to do and not to do. I started that map in 2016 so no I'm not in a hurry, it wasn't rushed. The map was ready for ages. I tested it over and over again, polished it with 5 other people, on my own

Pipou 04/15/2023 5:58 PM

So now tell me it's unfair ?

I.K.U 04/16/2023 1:17 AM

send gameplay

I.K.U 04/16/2023 1:17 AM

i dont care how many ways are there

Freezy 04/17/2023 11:02 PM

excuse me I didn't test the map yet (I will do so as soon as I find a partner) but this doesn't look like a decent map at all even though it's by pipou and I really liked the first two maps of the series but as mentioned above this simply seems to be too precise and punishing and tbh that this rule was designed to guide "novice mappers" might well be, this is understandable and I don't want to be rude or offensive in any way but some places simply could've been mapped by a "novice mapper" if you pretend to not know who the mapper is

Freezy 04/17/2023 11:02 PM

like this for example

Freezy 04/17/2023 11:03 PM

but maybe that's just me and I repeat I didn't test the gameplay yet but the release seems definitely too rushed

PapotaV 04/19/2023 4:03 PM

i want more corners

PapotaV 04/19/2023 4:03 PM

$decline

Welshi 04/19/2023 4:12 PM

I’ll make a map with absolutely no corners now

PapotaV 04/19/2023 4:13 PM

instant $decline

PapotaV 04/19/2023 4:13 PM

or u can name the map "no corners" and then ill aprove it

Welshi 04/19/2023 4:14 PM

Nah, actually have an idea that could work with no corners, will probably still have a couple though

Welshi 04/19/2023 4:15 PM

Anyways wrong channel

Pipou 04/26/2023 10:01 AM
Pipou 04/26/2023 10:02 AM

The changes are the following :

Pipou 04/26/2023 10:03 AM

Red : made it simpler so you don't have to do the cheat any longer and hook close to max range (avoiding to reach the kill tiles)

Pipou 04/26/2023 10:05 AM

Blue : removed the kill tiles at the top so you won't be tempted to hammer too late (and have the other hit the wall)

Pipou 04/26/2023 10:05 AM

Yellow : added a new "part"

Pipou 04/26/2023 10:13 AM

$ready 2

murpi 04/26/2023 10:20 AM

$ready 2

murpi 04/26/2023 10:26 AM

$reset

murpi 04/26/2023 10:26 AM

$ready

murpi 04/26/2023 10:27 AM

$reset

murpi 04/26/2023 10:28 AM

$ready 2

nothing_ 04/26/2023 10:35 AM

broke

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:14 PM

XD

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 1:49 PM

Glad testing is finally fixed now every mapper gets their shot cause they can just approve their own maps XD

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 1:50 PM
@Ravie

quick stop this abuse of power XD

Knuski 04/26/2023 1:51 PM

^

nothing_ 04/26/2023 1:53 PM

^

TearlessAbyss46 04/26/2023 1:55 PM
@Pipou

can I get a demo of a whole clean run without making any cuts or using super?

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:56 PM

Just make friends in the testing team

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:56 PM

Play around abit in super test the map abit

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:56 PM

Ignore most feedback thats put in testing channel

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:56 PM

$ready

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:57 PM

Thats ddnet testing

Knuski 04/26/2023 1:57 PM

Facts

Ryu 04/26/2023 1:58 PM

I wonder why mapping quality has gone go to absolute shit the past 1/2 years

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 1:58 PM

Thankfully we got Pipou to put an end to the stupidity of Ravie, sadly Pipou is just more of the same.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:03 PM

Yip it's unfair 👍
How about we open that as an option to all mappers. As long as they tell us they tested it over and over and polished it then we should just release the map. Or how about you fix map testing so this stupid shit doesn't happen instead of just fixing the problems for yourself when they bother you.

Steinchen 04/26/2023 2:08 PM

🍿

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:08 PM

Agreed. There should be compulsory testing. There should be more opinions on this map regardless if it's ready or not.

Also maybe implement a priority list. I.E maps that have been in testing longer should be tested first.

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:11 PM

so u mean every official tester should test each map? 2 of 10 testers have tested this map (at least what i can see in this channel)

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:11 PM

Y'all coming on a little too strong, I agree there's issues, and the priority list would be a fantastic idea, but chill acting aggressive at pipou and giving sarcastic comments isn't really helpin

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:12 PM

Boutta have same drama as the other one >.>

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:13 PM

No just more opinions would be good and healthy.

If you have a tester role, surely you should be testing. However there is only one tester i see doing 90% of the work. And thats pipou.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:13 PM

I started asking nicely like 4 years ago. Nobody did shit. Turns out public shit like this is the only way things don't get ignored or forgotten.

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:14 PM

yea lately pipou has done a lot of work, me and some other testers had their prime testing time in a different time period i guess

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:14 PM

Well testing is just a role that gives you more power than other people. It doesn't come with any responsibility at all.

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:14 PM

one of them being the mapper himself or? xd

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:14 PM

yes

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:14 PM

nice!

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:14 PM

not biased at all

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:15 PM

Quick tell all the mappers to test their own maps

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:15 PM

From what u can see some mappers that upload maps don't test them at all

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:16 PM

Time to sleep gl

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:16 PM

Sure but if they did and told us the map was good then we can release.

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:16 PM

Just say the map has been in works for several years and many people have tested, should be ready within 2 days imo

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 2:17 PM

2 out of 10 dentists recommend this product

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:17 PM

Yeah he is doing a lot for the community and i respect him for that.

But the point is that a map needs feedback to improve. And I dont think it's fair to other mappers to sit for months on end while this gets readied in a few days.

Nor is it healthy for maps to get the opinion of one tester. Because again that also does come down to preference and personal taste regardless of if he is experienced or not. Just sadly there is no other testers helping pipou so he has no alternative but to be the sole opinion on these maps.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:17 PM

Not only will they ready it, you'll also get a release date quick quick

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:20 PM

i completely agree. i also think that the testing system needs to be redone but then the argument of "testers are doing it voluntarily" comes to play which is right too of course. Back in my prime testing era i advocated the idea of kicking very inactive testers out the team which means i would now also needed to be kicked since ive done like nothing in the past months with a few exceptions.

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:20 PM

I think the whole priority list idea would fix most of this

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:21 PM

Don't worry Knuski, aslong as you don't call Ravie a dick publicly you should be fine

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:21 PM

thats why it wont be implemented

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:21 PM

Priority list won't fix everything, you also need to force testers to test.

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:21 PM

not everything, I said most

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:22 PM

Ok not even most.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:22 PM

When the map that nobody wants to test comes up then nobody will test

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:22 PM

Oi go

#off-topic
nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

Just making a mess in a channel

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

Yes well with no incentive (does not have to be monetary) people lose motivation to test. it is understandable. But Maybe the testing should be restructured to provide incentive for testers. Special badges or something in game. Just spit balling.

But yes you are right that inactive testers should be removed. And able to reapply when they feel they want to test again. But yeah these are not all the solutions to fix testing. Possibly not even the right way. There should be discussions about these things with the community who play these maps.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

Off topic sounds easy to ignore

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

Or I can time u out

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

yes lets move the discussion to

#mapping

so we can not discus this and then completely ignore all feedback that has been given and then this will happen again in 5months

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

see you guys there!!

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:23 PM
Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

Might aswell I won't stop causing shit.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:23 PM

Also fuck ravie and pipou 🙂

Ravie 04/26/2023 2:24 PM

likewise

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:24 PM

Ravie that's off topic bro

Ravie 04/26/2023 2:25 PM

then let's keep it on topic before we get kicked from the channel

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:25 PM

who gets kicked first

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 2:25 PM

no nsfw

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:25 PM

yea mods arent watching rn (

)

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:25 PM

I'm sleeping

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:25 PM

I bet Ravie gets kicked first this time

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:26 PM

🫡

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:26 PM

Bro don't do this at work XD

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:26 PM

I ain't setting off this bomb either

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:27 PM

Ah guess the trend in DDNet is testers don't have to test, moderators don't have to moderate. I guess there is no problems and this is just the norm. Sorry for bringing anything up then.

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:27 PM

literally me xD

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:28 PM

There u go

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:29 PM

U got moderated

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:29 PM

Free Soapy

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:29 PM

you didnt read him his rights bro

Ravie 04/26/2023 2:30 PM

he has a right to remain silent

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:30 PM

if I moderate here no change is gonna happen, unrest will grow, and sourness will increase between the mapping community and the testers. I actually think that if we move the conversation to mapping or off-topic the topic will be buried under othe rconversations and nothing will happen, and I'd like for change to happen is what I meant

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 2:30 PM

btw who is tatak

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:31 PM

one of the mappers I believe

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:31 PM

:p

Steinchen 04/26/2023 2:31 PM
@Soapy Sandwich

i can give u my alt if u need

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:33 PM

I feel when he's gonna come back some big wall of text will appear

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:33 PM

i hope so

Steinchen 04/26/2023 2:33 PM

tbh its still pretty crappy to timeout soapy for literally no reason

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:33 PM

Wdym no reason

Ravie 04/26/2023 2:33 PM

trolling and insulting testers is no reason?

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:34 PM

I said go to off topic or mapping

nothing_ 04/26/2023 2:34 PM

And ^

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 2:34 PM

actually, i agree on moving to offtopic, so the ai discussion gets flooded

Steinchen 04/26/2023 2:34 PM

i do that all the time!

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:35 PM

That's a lot to read

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:35 PM

A lot of testing I guess

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:36 PM

I'll try to reply to every message so don't reply too fast (or don't expect a quick answer from me)

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:36 PM

war, war never changes testing, testing never changes

JimmyJazzThe1st 04/26/2023 2:36 PM

xD

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:38 PM

we did about the same amount of testing as the testers themselves

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:38 PM

No I won't provide a video, I never did, won't do. I don't time for it unfortunately

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:39 PM

I suggest you read the messages I already wrote a little before

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:39 PM

Moderator test complete. They do moderate when asked nicely ❤️

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 2:39 PM

get ur 1 dollar puzzle mapper ass back to offtopic

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:39 PM

New mappers, new trends/meta, new tiles

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:40 PM

Yea suka stopped mapping

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:40 PM
Ryu 04/26/2023 2:41 PM

Sure, thanks ill read it once i get home first priority

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:42 PM

Agreed, this isn't just trolling, there are reasons behind what people are saying. I guess you could stop me with a perma ban but aslong as I can talk I will try to change people's minds on how unfairly the testing is handled on DDNet. If I can't talk on discord I will just keep on trying to point out the problems to more players.

Knuski 04/26/2023 2:43 PM

I have a dream...

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:46 PM

Véna, Blurry, nothing, Cireme, tatak and I tested the map. Because nothing was written here doesn't mean it wasn't tested. I often talk directly to the mappers in-game whenever I can as well. Colocolo also gave me a feedback in DM. I usually test going from the top of the maps in "MAP TESTING" to the newest, sadly it's not always possible (usually maps with too many problems)

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:48 PM

I'm sure the people you spend every time playing this game with wont be biased towards your opinion at all and definitely doesnt reinforce my point i made earlier too

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:50 PM

I disagree with you. You are responsible for the maps you $ready. By doing so, you acknowledge that the map is bug free and ready to go live

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 2:52 PM

The role doesn't come with responsibility Pipou, sure you are responsible if you use the role to do things but the role itself doesn't come with any responsibility. That's the problem.

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:53 PM

No, because they are objective and I always remind them to be and not to be subjective, to be nice to me, which would be pointless. I'm not asking them to test to tell me what I already know, otherwise why ask them at all ?

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:56 PM

I always try and ask people who are the target audience of my maps. I only asked people who had the skill and experience to play such a map. On the contrary, I asked novice players to test Lavender Forest when I made it, to have the best answers possible

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:56 PM

i'm trying to find a nice way to say this, biases don't just go away like that, it's a nice sentiment and all but yeah

Welshi 04/26/2023 2:56 PM

lavender forest is great

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:56 PM

Nepotism can never be defined as objective lol

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:58 PM

and in this very channel 3 very competent players pointed out a part as being overly punishing but they were ignored? xd because they are not ur friends or what?

Ryu 04/26/2023 2:58 PM

"just do the part right" 👍

Pipou 04/26/2023 2:59 PM

Well we speak the truth to each other. If it's shit it's shit, that's why we rarely post any maps and that VéNa never got his map released

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:00 PM

I won't try to be nice with them because they are my friends, I won't use pretty words like I do in testing channels (and vice versa about them, to me)

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:01 PM

Tatak already talked to them, in-game

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:02 PM

Everything has been taken into account, that's why I uploaded that last version

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:03 PM

Ah good that the last version got tested XD

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:04 PM

That's the type of map that forces it : very short and precise And actually, there are several ways to pass the parts, it's just up to you to find what's best for you as it always was the case for any map

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:05 PM

Unfortunately this channel has been too crowded for it to be seen and barely anyone is up for testing

Ryu 04/26/2023 3:06 PM

Ur kidding right? then why ready it? the reason this channel is crowded is because it got readied without testing

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:06 PM

So I'm sorry if you think it's unfair, I tried to improve the testing system by adding rules for your liking and by getting more testers

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:07 PM

But nobody seems to be involved or if they do, it's once per semester, if anything at all

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:08 PM

Most people just join the test servers, play, (criticize the maps sometimes) without writing feedback afterward

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:09 PM

The only testing that was done was mostly finding design bugs for corners (which is useful, but far from essential)

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:11 PM

Find people who will spend their time (hours), for free, to do full reports as a tester should

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:12 PM

It was tested again by 5 people before I uploaded it, but I meant for more people to test

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:16 PM

You seem to often pick up fights against topics you know nothing of

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:16 PM

Or you just assume to have all the info

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:20 PM

That's often the case with experienced mappers : a quick look around, a bit of map reading (unless the map has to be played), check for bugs in gameplay/design/editor, then it's good to go

Ninjed 04/26/2023 3:26 PM

That would be better for me to just be happy for new released maps and not know what is going on test channels

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:41 PM

I already replied to the first part of it. Yes it's unfair in that way for other mappers to have to wait but it relies on the quality of the map (bugs of any kind, unwanted cheats, the map style/structure (puzzle maps or complex or non linear maps, or even 3p maps that require more people to gather to test), the design, the gameplay, the flow, the difficulty, its length, the time spent from one update to another, more bugs, more problems...) and it also depends on the number of testers who tested the map. I agree it's not healthy for maps to get the opinion of one tester, but sometimes we are not given the chance to do otherwise. I again disagree when it comes to "preference and personal taste". You should leave that idea behind. As a tester, you should and you are impartial, objective. Side note, if anything were to rely on my liking, we'd only get a dozen map per year (if that helps justify my neutrality).

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:42 PM

Ah ok I guess that means test isnt needed, big brain

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:43 PM

You can't force a tester to test as you can't force a moderator to moderate or a coder to code. It's all about voluntary work

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:44 PM

Both part of the hotheaded gang

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:45 PM

If we did remove the testers, we'd be down to 3

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:46 PM

(not complaining and not doing that)

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 3:46 PM

xD

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:46 PM

Yes you can, that's just a silly opinion. You can say with this tester role you are required to do the following or you will lose the role.

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:46 PM

I disagree with this, the second it becoms forced testing will be of lower quality

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:47 PM

I wouldn't say "likewise", I'm sad you happen to act like that. Kind words once again

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:48 PM
Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:51 PM

Based on?

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:52 PM

capitalism

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:52 PM

Ah yeah I forgot all about capitalism my bad

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:52 PM

testers aren't getting payed

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:53 PM

I missed that message. Once again, just like Ryu, you talk without knowing anything. A mapper can ask for a preferential date (if he/she is unavailable at the date of release). Maps are released in order of $ready. I even told snail he could pick any day because I don't care

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 3:53 PM
@Voxel

i should draw that one meme with the pipe and the fat rich guy getting all da water but replacing it with deen

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 3:54 PM

(hes getting all that ddfunding)

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:54 PM

lmao

Pipou 04/26/2023 3:56 PM

I think I replied to everything (hopefully I didn't forget anything or I'll still be trashed out of thin air)

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:57 PM

I wasn't getting paid and refused to test unless it was required. If you are willing to do something for free then why in the world would payment be in question.

louis 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

if testing becomes mandatory i would just leave tester role 😹

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

this

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

Then in all honesty louis shouldn't be a tester

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

if testing becomes mandatory, testing will be done for the sake of meeting a quota, not because you wanna approve good maps

louis 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

i had an idea where if you wanted your map to get released you have to do at least 3 decent tests on other maps, that would work much better than requiring testers to test

louis 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

i dont think anyone is a tester just for the clout role

Welshi 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

agreed

louis 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

so that rule wouldn't have much of an effect

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 3:58 PM

There are people willing to test because they care about the game

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 3:59 PM

how do the first people get their maps released? paradox?

louis 04/26/2023 3:59 PM

then those people would test whether they're required or not

Knuski 04/26/2023 3:59 PM

i wouldnt lol

louis 04/26/2023 3:59 PM

only if it gets $ready i guess

louis 04/26/2023 3:59 PM

in that case they're decent enough to be able to test other maps

Welshi 04/26/2023 4:00 PM

imagine you had to ban x amount of people per week as a ddnet moderator

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 4:00 PM
cyberfighter 04/26/2023 4:00 PM

i could be a mod

louis 04/26/2023 4:00 PM

that brings up a good point

louis 04/26/2023 4:00 PM

mandatory testing would probably lead to lower quality tests

Voxel 04/26/2023 4:00 PM

xddd

louis 04/26/2023 4:00 PM

the best feedback happens when someone is willingly testing a map and looking into details

Welshi 04/26/2023 4:01 PM

exactly

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 4:01 PM

If people dont wanna release good maps they shouldn't be testers regardless of whether its compulsary or not.

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 4:01 PM

A good idea but you would want to encourage a testing queue also

Ravie 04/26/2023 4:02 PM

You guys should continue this discussion somewhere else, it looks like it's not related to this map at all anymore

Welshi 04/26/2023 4:02 PM

testing isn't just about releasing good maps though, it's for inexperienced mappers to know how to improve as well (imo)

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 4:03 PM

That would be a dumb way to monitor it. Are you suggesting there aren't good ways to monitor moderators work?

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 4:03 PM

Yeah i should do the ping in offtopic again

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 4:03 PM

Lower quality tests are better than no tests.....

Pipou 04/26/2023 4:04 PM

I'd wish all the participants here to actually come in testing to test maps. You spent about 3 hours talking here, you might as well spend 3 hours on DDNet's testing servers and help us release maps faster

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 4:04 PM

ok i will test the maps when i get home

Knuski 04/26/2023 4:04 PM

homeless

cyberfighter 04/26/2023 4:04 PM

richest serbian

Soapy Sandwich 04/26/2023 4:05 PM

Ok I never said testers wouldnt help inexperienced mappers though....

Welshi 04/26/2023 4:05 PM

only thing that really shows up on logs is bans and timeouts, I try to solve all issues I see peacefully at first and it works out pretty well (sometimes), but only way to hold that accountable is for me to record it or for an admin to be undercover in a server with me (which I heard they do sometimes but there's way more mods than admins anyway)

Welshi 04/26/2023 4:06 PM

what I'm saying is that it's those people that would suffer the most from making testing forced

Ravie 04/26/2023 4:06 PM

🔒

snail 04/27/2023 7:59 AM

just to answer on the order of release, I release the first ready'd map first (unless specific request from mapper), and I try to avoid releasing several map of the same server type / mapper in a row. since we have like 80% of solo maps, any non-solo maps will get released faster