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https://ddnet.org/testmaps/?map=Diversity

Map :lady_beetle: : Debug output is too long, see attached file.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhOV3d0WWk

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

Fixed this stuff

Anyway, I finally reworked my "I wanna get the points" map. I listened to all the feedback and made the parts less annoying. The video turned out a bit weird because I tried to show the intended way + all the skips/important bits Please spare me Vena

Note: extended unfreeze at 5:18 and 9:44 in the video

q is the default bind for spectating ?

It was when i did a reset to default in steam version, but I can correct it if I misunderstood something

damn, really is

video makes it look like if tutorial was a 2 player map

its nice that it teaches the player about most of the strats you would use in novice, but at the same time feels off since it doesnt focus on one mechanic for very long

Well it shows unfreeze/push/pull and uses that quite a lot

aint this too hard for a tutorial

well its not that hard ig. it looks nice from the video

What do u use?

mouse3

Colorful map i like it, (didnt try)

Wheel? Breeeh

not when scrolling

but pressing it down

fixed this

it gonna be best novice oat

10/10

it will be a next linear

i wish

better than linear 100x times

this map teaches all useful techs for newbies + there a lot of shortcuts for speedrunners and other content

design bug

unfreeze in tele missed

cross in front of player and unfreeze on the left idk if it's intentional

undeep missed

you might want to put aware mark here

Ye I though that it doesnt really matter and put it in the same layer as nohook cuz the same color

either remove those or make entities alternative

Those what? Did you mean that I need to put the hammer tile in entities?

yes, some marking for entities, like you did with every other help signs

small bugs

also this doesn't make much sense

Why

Fixed all of the above

Fixed the way to save infinite jumps back to start

Can i get these entities? They look cool

its comfort entities half overlayed with my map design

Oh..

If only such entities existed xd

you can make them yourself if you think its worth it. save his screenshot and try to achieve the same look in paint.net or anywhere else

I am already making my pfp dont kill me already

multeasymap 2??

naaah im wrong

wtf why is this bug still there

oops sooryryry

accidentally downloaded the wrong version

???

ok

I mean... it works

every stopper has unfreeze when its an exit besides this

For one Im not sure its true, but also it does make sense here 🤔 Tho I might even remove them since they dont do much

I've only watched the playthrough from your video and wanted to share my take on this map.

I think the map overall is great, it is definitely better than some of the current novice "tutorial maps" and takes a variety of ideas and show them to the tees which is great. I really like the shadow gifs that shows how you are supposed to do a move, so a tee can try to replicate it, but I have a feeling that certain moves are seen once and then a completely unrelated part shows up, such as simple hooks and hammers. I think that some parts like unfreeze+jetpack, the part where u need to get the tee out with the sg, ninja drag, might be a bit too hard for a tutorial-style map. I also dislike the solo-tiles in general for novice maps, again, with a duo tutorial-style map in mind. I've seen many novice players quit because they were stuck with a rocket jump part, and after trying for 1-2 mins they would leave because there's no-one around to help him and he can't pass the part. The issues, I think, are with the mix of the tutorial content and actual map parts.

Again, if this is just a general novice map, besides the harder parts, I like it. If this was designed to be a tutorial map, I think it feels a bit off

Ok ill start with the tutorial thing: its kinda hard to explain but i dont see it as a 1* tutorial map. There is a shotgun and deep freeze in this map, so it would still be a challenge for new players About solo parts: solo parts are mostly placed when the weapons are first explained, so players cant cheese them with team work and have to actually get the idea of weapons funtion (there are like 2 other solos, i dont think they distract the players or anything, but its up to debate i guess) Further on the moves: i tried to chose moves which will show what the weapon does best, so while a basic self unfreeze laser part clearly explains laser, i cant imagine puttin this somewhere else again, so later parts are about unfreezing others

(imo the solo tutorials give enough room for mistakes + are explained with ghosts, so players with eyes wont get stuck)

Also which parts do you think are too hard compared to the rest? Maybe I can change your mind or make them easier

This part will likely cause a good number of fails

First one i think is very easy, even has a checkpoint mid way, but its very easy to simplify this part if needed Second one I most agree with, I think its reasonable to ask for a hook and a dash, buuuut idk need more opinions Third one seemed to pose no problem to my 2 testers who had almost no experience in the game before, but its also easy to just widen the gaps (btw they didnt have a problem with the second screenshot either but i see how others can)

I agree that this part is more faily than the rest, but I tried my best to make it as clear as possible, so the only thing they can do wrong is dash very diagonally, but i hope theyll see that it leads to nowhere Also now that I think about it I should probably lower the ceiling so a dash from the very top works as well

tldr im only scared about the second screenshot xD

I think it depends on the rating that will be given to this map, it still requires using the sg from certain angles and hitting twice in rapid succession. The problem with the second part is that novice player usually can't seem to use the full hook time (it's a bit short, and it's not explained anywhere that the hook would not last forever). But I think stoppers can make up for that. As for the third part, I could have misjudged if you said that no-experience players could do it. Just thought that the tee swinging would be hard to control for a novice player

I think the rating that you assign to the map is important, for the discussion of these parts

I expect it to be 4-5, but honestly im bad at rating novices so it might be easier than that? Def above 2* tho And yes the concern about full hook is valid ngl

In my mind it was more like 2-3 and my comments were more focused on bringing it down to 1-2 because I really liked the shadow gifs as a form of teaching and would have loved to see more of that in some sort of a "2p basics tutorial moves" But, I'm no tester

1-2* is just boring to play in my opinion, so ill keep it a little bit hard

1) Changed the first stopper row into a platform + removed the platform below 2) Made the ceiling lower so you can go a bit diagonally from the very top and still make it

Doesnt change the difficulty in any of those ofc, but i wanna hear more from others first

why do u have a switch before startline

also i dont think you need the keybinds quads

the weapon animations are good though

Idk i though the door is pretty cool, like those self opening doors in shops

And why not explain some buttons? I think they are very useful, especially considering many players dont learn them until much later

hmm can u do them like tutorial? with images instead of english words

idk, how do you show spec and zooming with a visual? like ye arrows maybe but imo this is more confusing than just explaining with text plus you can just try those buttons and see what they do

but im not against changing it if there is some cool graphic to show it

err i guess both would text and graphic would be ideal but it's nothing necessary

ye i guess i can do like Spectate with little spyglass and zoom with idk

small skips

The grenade one is intentional im pretty sure.

Fixed the skip on the left (speedrunners would go bottom anyway, so its just annoying to do)

Also I found this skip (the first one in the chain is intentional)

Im not sure if it should stay, so i have these options: 1) dont fix at all 2) move the blocks more down so its impossible to fly into bottom unfreeze solo 3) move the platform away so you cant solo the ending 4) or do both 2) and 3)

i think is fine, good for speedrun, hard to pull of to normal ppl

huge fan of the map

Hey, cool idea for a map. :) My Notes:

1. Could you separate the walk on the stoppers a bit to make it more intuitive? Something like I drew. Welf suggested to remove some freeze on the right side as well so you can again solo if you miss it.
2. Please add some more unfreeze at least at the marked areas no need to punish beginners.
3. Same here and maybe allow players to go back?
4. Very poor spacing for novice at that section. Extend the platform on the left a bit and remove the freeze next to the right one.
5. Let players hook their partners out if they jump in here?
6. With most of the skips refined just falling into the checkpoint was a bit boring. Maybe add another platform there?
7. Second skip that feels way harder than the rest with the unfreeze being so high. Lowering it a bit would make more sense to me.
8. Quite a big portion of just falling and walking. Any way you can shorten it a bit?
9. Unfreeze here as well - top path is faster already no need to punish players that drop down.
10. You actually have to try a bit to reach that unfreeze. I would extend it to be closer so you can clear that part using different ways or make a vertical unfreeze line.

11. If you come with speed out from the part before you just hit the wall at full speed. Could you give some more space you are able to at least keep some speed?
12. Unfreeze here please.
13. Make it a bit more intuitive to hit the undeep here? I suggested something which would add some more character to the part as well.
14. Is there a reason why you marked them differently? In my opinion the coloring on the left makes most sense since that's what it looks like in entities.
15. Please remove this contraption I don't see any reason to keep it.

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

ill see what i can do when i get back, but rn

14. I marked the good choices in green, tho i dont mind changing cuz everyone who beats this will probably spec to make sure
15. Come onnnn its funny, only occurs once every hour and doesnt kill a team

👍 Take your time. 14. - I see. I believe everyone that makes it there should understand by themselves though. Having the colors be the same as in entities still makes it more intuitive to me. You could still add a 'good' or 'bad' hint additionally?

15. • Welf mentioned that it could potentionally ruin your speedrun if you get unlucky..

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

1. Reworked. I lowered the right half instead of raising everything
2. Partial fix. Starting from the left: i think the first unfreeze would encourage to just skip the obstacle, so i dont want to add it. The next one is good to get out of freeze if you already failed so I added it. Next unfreeze seems pointless to me, because the jump is very easy. The following one would be in a kinda weird spot so I raised the freeze instead. The last one has the same problem of skipping an obstacle instead of beating it, so I would like to not add it.
3. Fixed. Added a way back and unfreeze.
4. Partial fix. Extended both platforms by 4 blocks while keeping the freeze on the right.
5. Fixed. Made the entrance 5 blocks wide and added a way to get back.
6. Fixed. Moved the checkpoint under the platform to the left side.
7. Works as intended. I would like to keep this skip hard because its very satisfying if you know how to do it (you have to shoot down after jumping from a platform).
8. Works as intended. While I think that this isnt a long wait (takes 10 seconds to speedrun the highlighted area) I can see that its the longest wait on the map. That said I dont really know how to fix it if its a problem. The tunnel was intended to be a sort of suspense moment before kill tiles. Additionally I added unmarked layer of unfreeze below the stoppers so its 2 wide now (because you fall so fast 1 wide was ofnet not enough to dj instantly)
9. Fixed. Added unfreeze, removed the stoppers because they didnt serve much purpose, extended the right unfreeze up.
10. Partial fix. Just like 7, I would like to keep this skip a little hard (the only thing you need to do here is to dash at the very bottom. I still moved it 1 block left so now its free.

11. Need ideas. This part is intended as a check to make sure the player has infinite jumps, so I have a hard time coming up with a fix for the stop, because you either would need to make the upwards tunnel VERY wide, or add some kinda hook/idk which could allow for passing without infinite jumps. Also I personally dont see a problem with stopping, but not against fixing.
12. Fixed. Added unfreeze.
13. Works as intended. I think this addition would needlessly complicate the part. Its fine to ask for a little brain usage (literally just need to go back).
14. Fixed. Made all buttons the same colors as in entities and added indicators for good and bad choices.
15. Works as intended. I doubt this will affect speedruns at all. For one it only happens once an hour, so 20s/3600s its there, but there are also rows of unfreeze so you can pass this obstacle with rocket if you get unlucky/didnt spec beforehand. Also its funny af imo.

Wow, THAT’S a changelog

about 11: its always nicer to keep speed in speedruns you want the solos to be something that force players to have the weapons? in that case the shotgun thing should be changed, because there are different ways to skip it (1p or 2p) easiest solution to not make people bump into this, is moving it to the left

The shotgun case is a little different: -if you are in a crowd skipping it isnt a big deal -if you play duo you wont be able to progress + its possible to go back after noticing that In case of infinite jumps there is a solo part which requires infinite jumps But anyway, in this spot you have a ton of speed so your solution would require moving it like 10 blocks left, imo it would be weird

i don't see how the shotgun case is different

Ok now that I think about it they are more similar than I thought. Still, in a crowd one person can skip shotgun, but not the inf jumps

The suggestion would add an endless jump skip, i argued that it wouldn't make the map inconsistent to add that

I think this works pretty well

Yeah that looks good. 👍

1. Forgot to mention last time: The unfreeze should be extended or moved to the right. You currently swing your partner under it if you don't go slow intentionally.
2. Unmarked freeze tiles.
3. You have inconsistencies with the marking of your 'off' and 'on' tiles. I believe the usual usage is off -> black ; on -> white. That would manly effect your solo markings.
4. That marking is off. :)

Thanks to Cøke for pointing some of these things out.

Also you might want to fix this. 🫠

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

1. Extended
2. Removed unmarked freeze
3. The rule should be entrance = black, exit = white. This also means that black marks will always be on the "solo on" tile. Are there any spots with white solo start or black placed on "solo off"? Cuz I double checked and didnt find any
4. If possible I would like to keep this marking the same - it follows the rule mentioned at the start of 3. and while ideally it should be on red I think it would look bad if placed right next to a shield (the entity placement next to the shield is needed so you cant possibly dash out while in the solo part)

I also fixed that https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1282395088420474912

I can also do this for 4:

idk if its better

Would be marked properly then so I guess yes I don't see a downside to it.

Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).

I can still find at least two ways to get my dummy up to hook trough. :P

Well I think if bottom tee hooks the ceiling it might be possible to still catch, but now its very hard. What is the other way?

I would just shotgun up. The other way is shotgun down with the other player hooking.

I think this fixed both, but will it be fine if the top row is unmarked?

I don't think that fixes it, let me test.

I tried with this setup, seems like even if its possible you have to be quite far into the stoppers to hook

Also you will probably drop after the first hook if its even possible

Yeah I agree. You might be able to get the first one but then it will drop.

So can I leave only 1 row in design?

Yes I think that's fine. People that actively would try to do it will double check in entities or find the intended skip.

While at it maybe move cp10 below a bit as well?

Made the same change to rocket for consistency

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1279733690011746327 You can get on top anyway, do you think this should be fixed?

Hmm it works the same at cp 5 even though the difficulty is a lot higher.

Honestly Im not against doing the 2 fixes I proposed in that msg since the swing is so ass

But at least 2 ppl voted against so idk

These things are personal preferences I think so I would leave it up to you to decide.

Ok then I'll think about it tomorrow, or maybe someone will come and have some good points for one of the options

I think this is faster than what we were doing and it plays pretty well, but there still might be some route with low speed at the end

I don't know why you would want to force it so hard. Just give the players unfreeze and let them find the path that gets them trough the fastest on their own. 🤷

They can find the fastest path with this limitation in mind

if you remove the limitation, the map gets better on a casual run

I think the map will barely get better from changing that, but now players wont ask the question "how do i reach that?" to possibly learn more about ninja momentum I agree that this wont happen often but still

Ok so I tried to rework this part completely and here is why I think this is better: 1) the second player now does a bit more stuff 2) the part is actually fun to speedrun now imo 3) its now possible to catch a tee thats just jumping from the bottom platform, i think its better for noobs Also I added a logo in my tileset

no ifinity jump if you miss that spot

Is it possible to miss it?

yes

Someone has to throw?

Or solo?

Even if solo is possible you can only do it intentionally. A throw on the other hand...

Also the gametiles are the wrong way around.

Huh?

Endless hook has the jump indicator as design.

fr

1) Swapped gametiles so now they are correct 2) Moved solo entrance right so noobs dont get the idea of throwing (figuratively and literally) 3) Added forced infinite jumps pickup just in case they DO throw from the bottom

I don't understand this map. Is this supposed to be for beginners or rather for speedrunners? On the one hand you spam a lot of special tiles (which is not very appealing to new players) and on the other hand you put animations and explanations in design for the most simple stuff

Well its def not a total beginner map, but since people play in crowds disregarding the difficulty (on Novice at least) I thought including these tutorials wouldnt hurt

I like parts on this map, here is some stuff i found while testing:

1. This amount of special tiles on the very start might turn off some players. 2-3. You should give more space on this parts.
2. Odd cp placement (6, 7).
3. Probably useless stopper.
4. Solo is too close to the part start (imo). Sometimes it feels like there's too much entities used (stoppers, hook blockers mostly), it might be overwhelming for new players to understand what's going on, imo you should try to decrease amount of them. (screenshot 7 is an example)

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

2-3. More space for what?

Also can you give more examples for 6? I'll see what I can do but I thought it wasnt that complex

Also why is 4. weird? If I place cp 6 like that you would be able to skip it

I guess I can do this for cp 7 but isnt it worse

imagine if there's going to be 10-20 tees in the same part (that's normal for 63 player novice server), there's going to be a cluster of tees that will block each other (unintentionally), it's not a hard fix

because you can skip/don't touch the cp since it stops where freeze starts (either should add cps inside freeze or make some structure for cps)

can you show me how would you skip cp 6 in its current state? cp 7 ok i see

in case of the shotgun part i dont see how extra tees would be problematic in case of the other part there is a part you have to do to get a tee there, i feel like a big stack wont form at the top + you can just jump over them (i agree its hard but as i said its unlikely to even happen)

Everything else ill fix tomorrow, cuz I want to think about the part in the last screenshot more

guess you meant 7, if so

So far this is done:

1. Made start simpler 2-3. Discussing atm
2. Will probably end up just moving cp 7 like this
3. Playing with this part, might do a rework
4. Moved the entire solo 3 blocks right

plus on second screenshot you can't even jump fully, just claustrophobia feel

1. Even if they think it means at the end of the part - they wont be able to go back by then + will probably forget about it (idk how to word this better cuz "opens after finish" would imply there is no challenge to open it)
2. Its literally intended that in your first playthrough you will try to beat it and fail cuz its too hard, while speedrunners will dive right in. Dont remember noobs caring about flow
3. The other way is very easy, so I dont think its that big of a deal
4. After they dash in that room they can just dash back, no harm done I think

by skip i meant you don't have to touch it, basically you can go left in freeze and don't touch 6cp which is odd

loosing flow is not a great thing 1, 2, 4 (even on the first playthrough)

its 1 fakeout on a 10 min map, come on

potential fix

this would probably work

1. Made the spawn less cluttered
2. Raised the ceiling, removed the freeze at the last section on the left, changed the marking for the drag a little
3. Changed cps 6 and 7 in the jetpack section (now you cant miss 6, but can skip 7 if you are going for the jump + it makes more sense)
4. Reworked this hammering part entirely
5. Moved the shotgun solo a bit right
6. Reworked a shotgun part entirely (sorry, again) + added more hookables at the bottom

it is intended that you can cheat almost every rocket part?

and sg parts

well is part of the charming of easy maps i guess 🧐

cp placements in general are kinda weird, looks a bit messy

I noticed that Simple mentioned this, and I believe it's somewhat pointless to include something that isn’t 'playable' when you're trying to guide the player to understand they need to complete the part. If you don’t want to delete it (assuming you plan to address it), you could use it as part of a mini-game after the finish line.

i would make this shorter, is kinda slow

you could change the unfreeze vertically, so would be easier to hit when you are speedrunning

and btw you can cheat this: a) you can do doble rocket and reach the unfreeze; b) with speed you can reach the unfreeze

i wouldnt rate this as a novice, maybe as a mod 1, because is progressively harder

structurally speaking is okay, it gives an old vibe which i like

the idea of making a tutorial ish map that is harder than a normal tutorial is a nice idea, idk what the other testers think about this map, in t he mid time

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

There is a video at the start of the channel where I show everything (I think) thats intended https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1277293300432506992

2 things which I would really like to keep is this map being novice and this fakeout drop being a fakeout drop

Its just a 5 second moment in a 10 minute map, I dont think its that important to make it into something else

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1282337287526682664 I this still not fast enough? I guess I can make it even shorter but just wanted to show that you arent being unfrozen after deep

if you try to complete it normally and end up completing it for nothing you'll loose probably about minute and be upset

what's the point?

Have you even tried it?

0 newbies are passing this

do you think only newbies will play the map?

do you think it's okay if newbies can't pass the fakeout it's okay to leave it?

No, but pros can spec + it will actually be interesting for them

half a minute while being relatively fast and didn't complete the whole thing

yes, i tried

what you want to prove with "Have you even tried it?

"

Why are you guys making such a big deal out of this, I dont get it Its as if everything in a map has to be made so that it can be completed and forgotten in the optimal amount of time

First playthroughs wont have flow, wont have optimal movement and everything, so why cant this small troll exist? It doesnt even diverge from the main path

Literally the second you decide to speedrun the map this part stops being an issue

https://ddnet.org/guidelines/

Fuck me I guess

Write "just drop" in design and it should be fine

might work out aswell

Kinda kills the entire point of the part, but if other people will also think this way guess I have no choice

I like it

You could also make it a "legit" way for speedrunning and make it that you can skip 50% of gameplay with it, like on monkey sky

hmm it doesnt seem that bad

but make it more obvious you can drop

Ok I might have an idea

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1289341645816598630 Made unfreeze vertical https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1289342966829289472 Made it so you cant both go bottom https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1289337365076377620 Added a hint about the part being fake https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1289335195727822899 Got rid of the checkpoint entirely since it didn't make much sense to have it in the middle of a part (but the platform is wider now)

Also made these 3 wide blocks so you can use the rocket more easily

🥹

the idea of a multiplayer tutorial map*

1. Pretty sure those shields are useless
2. Boring walk imo, plus not sure why unsolo for 5 seconds
3. This section feels harder than the rest of the map

1. You can back with laser without those shields, I actually dont know if it matters much (for t0 runs mostly) so I'll look at it again later and probably remove them
2. Went over this in 8. of https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1282294325685780510 but tl;dr I think its a cool moment for noobs and doesnt take long in speedruns since you can swing at the start As for the short unsolo - in case the noob somehow does get confused on where to go after the fall at least they can follow the crowd (+afk king can flex on unsolo ppl easier

)

3. While I think that the deep carry part is easy since I havent seen even new players struggle with it, I can see how the solo one can be hard so I dont mind nerfing it

1. Removed the shields (bringing laser to a jetpack section doesnt do much)
2. Nerfed the hardest part of this solo (the rest in the Simple's screenshot seems easy to me)

Also what do you guys think of this? Since some say that this section is too long I though this might solve it, but for one it would need a restructuring since there is a ninja introduction later, and secondly at this falling speed you sometimes just miss the thing

so it would need to be vertical or something

Personally think its fine as is but maybe this has potential idk

Maybe you could put platform between those two pillars in deep part? I think it's pretty hard for novice right now, requires non-novice movement skill to complete

Sry but I just dont see the difficulty here. You can jump in sync with the swinging, out of sync - doesnt matter. And non-novice movement? You just jump between the pillars - as simple as it gets

Im not saying that I know for sure but I just wanna see how can this part be difficult for players above 1* Novice level

alright

imo this background doesn't fit the map

flappy bird

Can you be a bit more specific? Are colors bad? Maybe the bg needs more elements besides just the gradient? Imo it looks fine but I can experiment if you give me a direction

Basically everything you said: it's kinda empty (would be cool if you added some elements to it), color don't match the design (would be cool if each section had it's own color scheme)

As far as I can tell there is no good way to make bgs for each section, I can only overlay the bg with colored tiles inside the parts

Clipping might work good

But sections arent simple rectangles, so how would you cover them without weird borders outside?

First part made me think that it's a "Linear like map" where you can solo every part. But that was not the case. There's no reason to have switches in this map, just remove them & the "Control panel" With all the hints around the map It seemed like you were aiming to make a 1 star novice map for people that has less than 1 hour gameplay? It would be good to have one of your friends that never tried TW before play the map to see where they struggle. Most of the map is fine for novice 1 and has potential to be a really good map but there's some hard parts and a lot of useless parts you need to remake.

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

behind game layer

Why the Control Panel hate :(

Also its not 1 star lol

It would be good to have one of your friends that never tried TW before play the map to see where they struggle. I did exactly that and the places where they struggled are already fixed (mainly no clue about shotgun so now there are markers)

And even tho they did beat the map with no experience (the first run was in practice mode but still - without some silly mistakes they could do it) I still dont think this map is 1 star since 1) they were in vc and imo above average in using brain 2) current 1 star maps are way easier than this

"But why add tutorials then?" well the map is still Novice and I consider anything in this category as a playground to learn

I agree with everything Aoe pointed out, and I do think this map would fit in the novice 1.5 category, some parts are definitely less balanced than others in terms of "you might struggle if you never played this game before" but all in all it's easy to grasp the Idea behind every part but some just need gameplay balancing before it can really be a 1-2 (mostly the parts pointed out by Aoe already).

Hope to see the mapper cook

I also dislike your thought process on the second point

Unbalanced rankings will always be there, but a map beatable by people who only finished tutorial should belong in the 1 novice category, in which it doesn't matter if one is easier/harder than the other, if it's playable by absolute beginners with 0 knowledge about the game, it belongs into the 1 category IMO

It seemed like a novice 5* to me if I remember correctly (might be mixing things up) 💀

let's do what we always do and roll a dice

^ For everyone wondering what happens when rolling a 6, it‘s re-roll

While your reasoning does make sense, this logic just doesnt apply to ddnet Two new players with a brain and a voice chat can pretty much beat any (modern) Novice map while 1 star is reserved for absolute baby gameplay (only 4 such maps were released in 4 years and linear isnt even one of them)

Dont look at WTF by the way

noob

the map is awesome tbh

isnt stuff usually in front of the player? LearnToPlay also has deep in front

imo stuff like that is up to mapper and his style

It was just suggestions from me. Personally I prefare them behind the tee.

Ah fair, I guess things like spawns do look better behind the player but idk about everything mentioned

Are you working on a fix?

Ye, just didnt have much time for the editor recently

Damn awesome map .. LOVE IT

Good designed map. Very good for newcomer too. explained almost every starter mechanic(infinite hook/jump etc) and weapon

Before/after screenshots

(also i left unfreze, etc. layering as is)

Also I was thinking if it would be a good idea to have the deep parts be separate from each other On one hand it can prevent a situation where 1 person does 10 tees than 10 tees do 1, but it will also allow to get everyone out when only 1 is dragged through so idk

But I guess making a part easier doesnt hurt for novice 🤔

any purpose to this?

improve visibility of stoppers inside freeze

try to simplify the uses of stoppers in this part or make it more intuitive for newer players

for example, removing the 2x2 block in the middle and extending the ^^^^ stoppers all the way until the unfreeze

How will you get inside then?

unfreeze doesn't need stoppers

so the top guy still has to drag dummy < and land him on the unfreeze

i would sorta improve visibility or add a ! sign of some sort here

Ah, well I suggested the 2x2 so it's more obvious that you should go around.

ah i see

not a big issue either way

i'd put tele before freeze on the ground here

depending on ur intended difficulty level, i would add the same stoppers on the left side and then another lower pair of stoppers on the right side. (only if you're aiming for novice 2* or so, otherwise no issue)

i just think it'd make more sense balance wise since nade jumping is a tight input for new players

add at least 1 instance of a non-faily bullet before you introduce a faily version

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

i dont understand what this does

ah for the control panel

i think u need to update the control panel image thetn

unfreeze on ground

good map otherwise

definitely ramps up in difficulty but i think it's fine

It's cool xD

Also nah Im fine with higher difficulty (will fix the rest)

Before/after screenshots

Also moved stoppers above the freeze layer so they are more visible

so I had an idea with this map. Maybe once it's released you could host a 63 players server and make a video about it, like you did in the past with multeasymap

lol

The problem with 63p event is that its a huge pain to organize. At any moment someone can leave even if they knew the run would take a long time. I didnt even start the multeasy event - someone created a forum post and it suddenly got attention.

or just make videos again because they were so entertaining :D

looks good to me, do a couple more checks for design bugs yourself

its been a while since i rated maps, so others should probably give their opinion 😅

the name sounds epic so i think its ready for release

by a professional tester (me)

actually, mark a ! or an arrow to this un deep freeze

the 2x2 undeep on the right -- since its probably easy to miss it

Why do you use so many hook block tiles? I don't even get their purpose

What are those doors?

So you can have bonuses or penalties in t0?

It seems very awkward and confusing

Not sure it really "ramps up", what's even that?

I don't get all those useless and confusing parts

Such as the long fall

It's easy to fail there and you shouldn't be able to fail in novice

I get that you want to make sure nobody forgets the bonuses but it looks bad

It looks like I have to do wall jumps, it's wrong

The control room is confusing and too hard to reach for novice players

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

another half year of waiting

map release in 2026

Left: its literally just a part itself - to catch in the air, to use sg, etc. Right: to prevent from dropping on the stoppers below

In what way is that confusing? I think its fun because the punishment isnt significant

A filler part I suppose, but I think its ok cuz noobs will stay still to think a bit so you can test /showothers in the meantime Imo this part doesnt take away from anything since its easy and short for novice players and can be ran through with huge speed for speedrunners

Since when you should not be able to fail in novice? Also I would argue its not easy to fail there

Also dont get how it looks bad, please elaborate on how I should fix it if needed (also its invisible in design)

Hard to reach is kinda the point, otherwise the doors would switch after almost every finish

lol, never saw such a bad using of useless tiles

You def did xD

I just wanted a part with unhookable air as a main obstacle, dont see whats so bad about it

eh actually i'd say a lot of people might fail there, noobs dont really aim they take a random angle and fire

i'd remove the hookblock, it adds unnecessary complexity

i like the useless solo, the control room, and leap of faith

i think the undeep / deep thing is just confusing it wont indicate to noobs how deep/undeep works

u can move the line of inf hook / inf jump back to where you originally give them instead of putting them 20 blocks to the left i guess

all fails should make the player feel like its their fault, not make the player feel like its the mappers fault

Well as louis said you only fail if you fire randomly, im pretty sure it counts as your own fault But fine i think Welf has the idea of putting shields on the sides somewhere, I'll try that

yeah, i'd still fix it

also nerf the shotgun part of control panel solo

you mean like that?

use brain, not useless tiles

can you explain to me why they are useless?

i get that solving every problem with unhookable air/switches is a bad approach but its literally not the case with this map

this looks better, they probably wouldn't make 15 tile jump without inf jumps unless they know hammer fly

they get inf jumps from the square thingy on the right, we are talking about a failsafe rn

if there are a smarter way of mapping it

its about mapping skills

thanks, very infomative now please tell me why you dont like there specifically imo in the right screenshot unhook air looks clean, does its job and causes no confusion left i agree is debatable and im willing to revisit it, but my goal was to make an unhook air part so why would i use blocks or something else instead?

ah u are the mapper

xD

didnt know that

then wtf was this convo about xD

if you wanna do it the most complicated way, put checkpoints in the special tiles and create a system that if you touched the checkpoint itll let you pass but if you didnt itll yell at you and either force you to go back / gives them yourself

i did bcs u said b4 some useless stuff to me, was not lookin for the mapper

the testers should explain how its done

someone who have some mapping exp

you brought it up so clearly you know whats wrong and you are talking to me rn, i dont see how answering that question would be inconvenient to you

b4 in other channels

where

idk and idc anymore but ur name was in my folder of new mapper

i am a new mapper but it isnt related to you knowing where should i look for your answer to a similar problem

u should delete all special tiles for now and start with basics

try to map some basic good parts without hookblocker to force the weird way xD

its way better to use basic tiles

well most of my map uses basic tiles (or not if you count stoppers) and you didnt tell me whats wrong with a few ones that do so

its not my job, just saw the very bad hookblocker screenshot and had to write something

bcs i didnt saw such a bad thing in a while

next time write something more specific or else your comments will be more useless than these tiles

and its better to learn if u think urself about it

the most i got out of you rn is that it forces "a weird way" so i guess ill work on making that way not weird

mapper trying to force one way

its not good if u cant find a good solution

especially in novice maps

sorry for not having so much experience as you

just saying the main problems

The shotgun part is now 100% unhook free!

also i have no idea how to fix this tbh, i thought the idea with shields was good but no matter where i put them it only causes more problems while not preventing all the old ones

(i dont really consider it a problem anyway since you have to legit fire without thinking to fail like that, but if its a problem idk how to not destroy the whole part)

also yes you can do that but i think its fine

i disagree, ninja works rly unintuitively esp for new players

why not like this or similar

Awesome! Tho I don't see why not do the same on both sides

i tihnk everything should have a purpose no matter how small

dont make it automatic, have them hold door open and maybe they will learn some manners too

and so on

also i feel like it's better without the line of infinite jumps

it's forced for the solo so u cant miss it, player is forced to conciously engage with the jump pickup just lke in tutorial

but endless hook isnt forced for the solo, which isntead tells you that its misplaced and should be closer to tp12

I think this is bad for speedruns because you go high after the swing, perhaps i can do what you showed but lift it up

I think this is too hard for this map

It was like that when I uploaded the map but there is a possibility of someone 1) not taking jumps 2) getting thrown up the solo part

Regardless, in my opinion all this failsafe stuff treats the player as stupid, but Im not bothered by it

Also instant closing on the door? Nah bro youre crazy with this

speedrunning is a bit hard

oh well, already mentioned above

OOOOOOO ye i want to play it on stream YEYYYY ohh i played it i remember cool map

I dont know if I should be afraid

Know that I really liked this map, you were able to make the most of this map, know that I'm happy that you started using the editor and I hope you use it a lot more to have more of these types of maps, I hope this map is accepted soon ❤️

This map look really good for screenshots, will try running it with a friend

It's a great experience, it's very different from other novices and it reminds me a bit of old novices that didn't have an environment in themselves

accept this now pls

nope

😭

$decline

This command was not found.

I wouldnt expect it to release soon just sayin

I want it to be just 😭

1. I think a better introduction of deep freeze would be some kind of a jump so you can see exact moment when you freeze and can't move + you can make this solo a little more interesting this way (screenshot to understand what i mean) 2-3. Both spots are very easy to block, it's not much of an issue i assume. but i thought it's worth mentioning, in second case tees who finished could just come back and spam hammer making it nearly impossible (specially for newbies) to counter. I can see this map being liked by quite a lot of people, it has it's own authenticity, kinda reminds me of kobra both structure and gameplay, not in a bad way. For me it's ready if you fix the deep solo and maybe finish block.

Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.

i also tried finding design bugs but couldn't, imo background is a tad too bright but it's up to you if you want to change it or not

Before/after changes above

ok

$ready

This command was not found.

good map！

Pretty much said everything in message before, imo map is ready, not a fan of that amount of skips but ig that should be okay.

First ready set by Trial Tester. Map needs to be tested again by an official tester before fully evaluated.

The map is now ready to be released! Difficulty Rating: ★★★★★ Unoptimized version: https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1337842665714094254

Optimized version attached.

not sure about the rating so opinions are welcome

Btw can you please release it on Saturday (after <t:1740065400:t>) or Sunday (any time)

I'd say 5* as well but lets see what others think

5* is fair i think

I don't think it can be 5 stars when there are much harder and faily novices

For example? I think the much harder ones are very old

they might be old but they are still in novice category, so I think they need be taken into account

Planet Venus, Little Forest, Dry Lagoon, Chicken Pie 2, Xolla, MagiK, Absurd 5, GeRollA, Senani

just some of them

I dont think any of the last novice releases were taking them into account but if Im wrong then 4* I guess

Also didnt even mention Kindergarted smh

We still need to re rate all of those novices, this process is quite tedious because first each map has to be taken into account and sad part is it's still going to be partially subjective. Then all rerated maps (might be a number of 80+ maps) has to be manually re rated by admins. Coke started the rerate process some time ago but it didn't go far, we might want to rerate them in near future

'Near'

I invested already alot of time, we played all maps that we have already re rated

Sadly other tester said he won't take care of my work and compete it, everyone can see the Google docs re rating where different ppl already have written their opinion

In my opinion, it should be done by 2 people who have a lot of experience, Nevertheless, newer ones can also help

Can you send the link to the docs? Also : https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1287850979244507267/1342082817282150434

I don't think that work should be wasted

can u do it for me ? Im not at home

Have shared it already, but can't find it from phone rn

I played through the map with a friend, and I think there's only a few parts that feels like 5*..the general vibe would be 2-3 stars, otherwise, mostly non-faily and people will take maybe a couple of tries to pass...but yeah, with the amount of different skills it requires and some failiness here and there, I would say 4 or 5 looks good

Well I dont feel like the vibe contributes anything to the difficulty so def not 2*

(Otherwise I agree)

(im away for some time, will schedule this when im back)

See ya 2026

Cool thx

when release

https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/392853737099624449/1346011481334091828

Can I do a few minor changes tomorrow? (Same gameplay)

idk who to ping about that so there you go

i assume yes

just ping snail or whoever is handling the map release when you post it

alr

G A Z E B R

holy 😮

1. Added 3 deep pillars to prevent boring skips and 1 undeep (middle part)
2. Added enable hammer block inside the totele
3. Made optional gores easier

(also adjusted 1 envelope timing)

✅

idk

Almost like it's intentional. :O

The map is now ready to be released! Difficulty Rating: ★★★★★ Unoptimized version: https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1346955967719280706

Optimized version attached.

Optimized ^

Thats not even the fastest way to do both of these :D And ye its intentional

Speeders on the left were still the old survivable ones

sowwy

(This is the last one, trust)

/ready

Gg, can’t do it on my phone.

open in browser

Don’t want to deal with the login right now. I’ll do it later if no one else has by then already.

slash commands also work for me, maybe your client sucks ?

The map is now ready to be released! Difficulty Rating: ★★★★★ Unoptimized version: https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/1277293235953471690/1347246005179121746

Optimized version attached.

Updating worked. :)

done

your map has just been released, and you now have a 2-week grace period to identify and resolve any unnoticed bugs or skips. After these two weeks, only design and quality of life (QoL) fixes will be allowed, provided they don't impact the leaderboard rankings. Be aware that significant gameplay changes may impact and lead to the removal of ranks. Good luck with your map!

when release

when release

real

i liked this map, design and pretty much everything, best map 11/10

only thing is its not hh

yeah, if only the map included pseudo-hook-triple fly i would give it 12/10

oof i can do that

🙂

and if it would be thru 1/2 tile gaps then 13/10

ok but that i cant do

imo if the map included 1 tile gap deep 3fly with 10 aleds then it would reach 14/10

yeah it should be in all novice maps

GOOD MAPPA

awwwww thank you guys

Very good map I had USA rank 1 and now I'm USA rank 4 😭

It's like multeasymap refreshed version

Uhhh Im glad it was refreshing I guess

Some minor QoL changes (mainly involving moving unfreezes closer to the end of the part) - in some cases this will make speedruns a tiny bit faster but there is no need to delete the existing ones

Post-release updates need to be uploaded manually. Please reach out to an administrator.

can you please optimize if these changes are acceptable

Yeah looks good.

Optimized version:

Last one! (I hope.)

How long does it take to update? I checked today and its still the old version

maybe that server didnt get a reset for the map since the map was constantly online

Nah, I did /map to check Or do you mean the entire rus server list?

(Idk maybe they are connected in that way somehow xD)

did it again, check now

Ye now its the latest version, pog

i found this to be confusing since the text implies that you can open it at the end of the part (and that you have to go back to get it) maybe make the text say "opens at the finish line" or sth like that

i also got confused

called it 6 months ago kinda

Stop using so much brain, most noobs just forget about it at the end of jetpack part

Also it doesnt just open at the finish line, and I feel like other explainations would be too long

yeah not a big problem, but some people still got little confused

i did too tbf

I just dont wanna update the map again to simply replace "end" with "finish" or something