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Map :lady_beetle: :
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
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i started an internal talk with the testers about this map, because imo the design is unplayable and the whole map is too big (you want to zoom all the time, while the gameplay is not justifying that). the design overloaded and the contrasts in the background are too big. on novice i expect a playable design. this would require some rework, so i wont decide on my own, if you have to change it. freeze and unfreeze look very similar and some gameplay relevant contrasts are very small. just a small thing to add: the one time you put freeze on stoppers, its brighter than stoppers without freeze, because you put white freeze on it. it's inconsistent + unintuitive + the unfreeze on stoppers is not marked. screens:
it's called EASTER EGG DEAL WITH IT !!!!!!!!!!!! xD not the first time that you have some stupid problems over something that is a simple easter egg. but still whats wrong about it ? why would you even mention it ??????? why you have problems with that ????? !!!!!!!! its a normal easter egg nothing else(inteded way is still faster) Welf I recommend I even tell you that you MUST play other games and see what easter eggs in other game levels are. making one way is borin and stupid. This makes the level/map more interesting and more "shocking" for players which makes it more exciting to explore =]
This easter egg is done correctly and there must be mooooore this kind of things on maps ^^ stop making problems over this kind of things.
You didn't address my point so i don't know what i should say now
🍿 Let's goo
i did..., it don't have to always be a design element. Thats why its called an easter egg in other games. Stop making maps boring. Let mappers add things for players to explore.
@prezes3333haven't checked the map but if there is only one of this kind of easter eggs then you should add more. If a player will see one then the player will think "ohhh maybe there is more this kind of ways, need to find them" sooo if there will be only one or two then they will be disappointed.
I didn't say "remove the easter egg"
you mentioned it like it would be something wrong about it also the way you wrote it can be easly understood that theres something wrong about it. If its good then why even bother to mention it ?
Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.
Can you repeat my criticism?
if you wouldn't think its wrong then why would you mention it in the first place ? =] what was the purpose of that screenshot in the first place ?
It seems like you can't address my point, so this conversation has no sense
why would I want to adress your imaginary point if its you that can't describe it ? cmon why did you posted that screenshot ? (if theres nothing wrong about and you don't want it to be removed/changed then why?)
I will delete further spam, it just makes map testing more chaotic and there is no need for that
as soon as you will remove that screenshot or answer the question what was the goal in posting it if theres nothing wrong about it !!!
if you will remove the screenshot then you can delete what ever you want xD
design seems fine
just less contrast in bg (water thingy)
yeah this is just a cute lil fun spot ngl
but ur overreacting tsin ☺️
its only bcs i don't know... maybe he wants to make all maps boring. Its not his first time when he focuses on simple fun to explore easter eggs. Mappers should add more and more of them. Give players parts in maps to explore.
While I think as a standalone part this easter egg is fine (allthough most noobs will prefer it over the normal route) the main problem for me is this:
Yes, they are pretty small but I wouldnt want to worry about all these potential "easter eggs" while in 10 zoom
yeah the zoom issue is kinda bad across the whole map
what does zoom issue exactly mean in this case ?
cuz i dont really know what to think about it
amount of space ?
Novice players have an unfortunate combo of not knowing how to zoom + doing the parts without spectating 90% of the time, so in many cases on your map they wont know if its safe to drop the tee (The left screenshot if with default zoom)
in most cases they don't even care about reading signs which helps understand how parts works
why would they mind if there is freeze or tele
xD
but that's cool, I understand
what would you think about this approach : novice 1 star or 2 star - lets hold the player by hand and don't let them fail/die/be scared of anything novice 3 star add some difficulty novice 4/5 star stop holding back and let them know that ddrace is full of scary pits of death ? =]
Thats why you at least try to make the parts as clear as possible cuz ye they cant read, move or communicate
i wouldnt go as far as adding scary pits of death in novice, but while the idea is cool i think there will be many exceptions to this rule
for example linear is pretty faily if you think about it, but its still super easy
I though that map is novice 4(haven't checked whole map) soo this kind of unknown but not faily pits would be fine
Naaaaah its 1* for sure xD (i guess 2 if you think freeze floor is unacceptable for 1)
tutorial should teach you how to zoom imo
about that zoom out pit problem.... both are on default "zoom" (aka zoom 0) Tsin 1080p, Kaama 4k on both teleport is seen
dyn cam?
yes i know that kaama is not on the same level but standing in that same place player on 4k will still see teleport without any problems
nope
so what about parts like this one?
u cant see teleport below
i can remake some parts to make teleport visible in default zoom, but its also impossible in other parts
i tried to play like novice that barely knows when to hook and when to release or even move and this happend(kaniosek please think about this part):
you don't have to change it, if its not possible. we will show more screenshots, if we think something can be fixed easily about spacing one issue is, that many times you can't see the ceiling or sometimes you don't know where exactly to go, because everything is so big, so you have to zoom/pause before going on
sometimes I don't understand your mapping rules
when I sent my first map, it was too tight, then I enlarged it because you forced me to do so and the effect was similar to the one here. Now it suddenly turns out that it would be better if it was tighter, because it would be nice to know where to go
Every tester has a different opinion, you can get lost in it
the narrative was that the more space the better
its hard to find the balance between "not too tight for t0" and "small enough to be easily readable"
now it feels other way around
about which map are we talking? did we say anything, that is contradicting?
not you exactly
i mean other tester
I pretty sure that for novices the narrative is 1) imagine 10 tees in the part - would they fit in comfortably? 2) noobs play at default zoom so account for that
imo multeasymap is a good example for good spacing
probably not perfect 😅
It turns out that the whole map is fucked up because noob need navigation
xD
imo spacing on this map is decent enough except for these 3 places
rest is good for big servers
I will fix most of the things from what Welf sent and repair spacing problems in some places
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
I will add more special caves later
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
Caves feel confusing that they are sometimes important and mostly something to ignore while running. Design is hard to understand, colours are a bit too similar. Not a big fan of how the parts seem to scale from super easy to confusing brain parts but not a super big problem
tele transparenty is 255 don't like that a bit ( my opinion )
maybe more teleports ?
here was bad spot when a lot people fall ( one spawn )
Did u asked Matrose for the tileset
My last update was that it's not open to use
when I downloaded it it was available on the website. You also told me i can use it
I will ask, if he refuse i will change it quickly
I don't know anymore
he agreed
👍
Fixed this
Your map submission has been declined.
Mapper uncooperative and asked for it as he was not willing to apply fixes
The biggest spacing issues where we'd suggest lowering the ceiling to not have to make tons of design adjustments:
Additionally needs fixes to the horizontal spacing and bait ways (especially caves) as well
Design needs small changes to unfreeze and hookthrough
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
Include a changelog alongside your map updates (preferably with screenshots).
Moved channel back to TESTING.
Mapper is considering working on the map still after a longer discussion in-game
Map channel has been moved to waiting mapper.
cute design
how is it cute
its a lil bit scary for a novice
novice shouldnt be all flowers and hearts(replying to koll potato)
novice should be that in difficulty, visuals are whatever
I started changes. So we almost completely abandon the idea of exploring the map?
Exploring in what way?
The caves?
example
why should players see the ceiling in such cases?
red player still have to drag partner through part, at the end there is an obvious path, which you can clearly see
again, I can agree with some of the screenshots, but some of it just doesn't make sense to me
I can even mark these paths with arrows [without entities and with them], and I don't see any possibility of getting lost after that
Yeah I do like the right one a lot more.
There isn't really anything to explore up there.
certainly not now
I say that the structure is more interesting on the left
And before there was empty space with some doodads?
If you want the players to explore you should make the caves have some function.
structure combined with textures, looks better than not having this structure with the textures
Besides, there's nothing to discuss here, you can see exactly what looks more interesting
the point is that there may be nothing there, or there may be something there, I guess that's what exploration is all about
So you applied the desired changes just to tell us that you liked the previous version more and won’t change it, is that where this is going now or am I misunderstanding something?
you understand wrong
read what I wrote at the beginning
its ok to put exploration places in my opinion
but other testers seem to not like it
also, the way you did it is misleading
rather make smaller things here and there rather than putting the ceiling super high
That is the problem. We didn't say to remove them - Welf said to make it consistent.
so we definitely get rid of the current structure?
What about screenshot i send?
your original structure was too spaced out considernig the footprint size of the parts are
Can you somehow deny this? I'm just curious
i think u should keep the neat exploration / chill areas, but make them less huge
deny what
just say what you think
what is the significance of this ceiling
bruh i never said keep that ceiling
i said keep it similar to how you had it before but make it less huge
on default zoom i don't even think you can see what's above you unless you're double jumping / hooking up from the start of that room
I'm just asking what you think about it
well i think the shorter ceiling on the right is definitely lamer
and yes it's obvious the part goes down and right, but if you want noobs to explore the map and chill then you should make it easier for them to do so
remember, they will try and go wherever they can on the map
so you shouldn't make it harder to get to a spot just for it to be not gameplay-related (for a novice at least)
so make these places tighter and make them easier to access?
well, this discussion is all very theoretical so you'd have to edit the map yourself and see what looks the best. I think the big spaces didn't really fit the vibe in the first place anyways. i would make them 1-2 blocks tighter and bring down the ceiling about 3-5 blocks as well
also, i didn't look at the gameplay, i'm just speaking from a general map design standpoint
thanks for the detailed explanation
now it makes more sense to me
the issue about the spacing is that it ruins the game flow for players like me, who have to zoom out to see whats going on. for novice players it's not only the confusion about where to go (maybe they don't know how to zoom..), they also don't wait for each other, so one tee who wants to explore stuff might get abandoned by the group. right now the design is inconsistent, sometimes you explore hookable dead ends and sometimes you explore caves, but 2 times the caves are gameplay relevant, which makes everything more confusing.
there are different ways to make stuff intuitive, maybe take a look at how its done in multeasymap (the chairs all over the map). you can also do a smaller "exploration area" where you just go through between 2 parts, that's fine for me aswell, if you can easily swing through that area. maybe find your own way of making it intuitive.
can we make changes step by step? Again, too much chaos
it would be easier if you pointed out these places and gave example solutions, I can be inspired by them
this all sounds too general
it's all over the map, freezy did send some screenshots, we are not here to rework the map with you (it will cost alot of time). if any testers wants you to help with that, they are free to do so
I'm not forcing you to sit in the editor
you can write solutions, not build them
and I'm not talking about walls of text
Since you require so many changes, it would be good to start with what bothers you the most
I'd rather do it step by step than rework the entire map and then be told that everything needs to be changed again
you can apply these changes as a first step
I'll make half of it today and will send screenshots
i think the gameplay relevant caves are nice
they arent required are they? if they are then that's bad
Huh ? What, should i remove them?
one of them is required
unless its very intuitive you should consider changing it
im talking about that cave
Ye
For me look good
well for me you should be consistent with your design and remove both caves which are gameplay relevant or remove eall other caves (or do a similar change to get to consistency)
I can remove all common caves
And hide special ones
To make them harder to find
that would be best for me, is there such an option?
plus it will be easier for me to change the map structure
imo the cave i linked earlier shouldnt exist (inconsistency). it's hard to tell now how confusing the solution you suggest would be, but it sounds like a first good step.
person above me said that the design is cute and i said it isnt because it is all dark (btw theres a reply feature in discord)
i know reply feature exists i just missed the reply icon
Your map submission has been declined.
Talked in-game. Will be reworked and re-submitted which will take some time.