01:10 <+bridge> <blazu da apol> hey, considering the forum is now read-only I think this should be updated no? @0xdeen
01:10 <+bridge> <blazu da apol> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1412312786003955743/image.png?ex=6a46a407&is=6a455287&hm=10a12c240331942f5c197963afbe10d295effd3566264622c730bfa4e97b4388&
01:28 <+bridge> <totar> 5.6 sol waiting room
01:35 <+bridge> <alw5> we making accounts with this one 🔥
02:08 <+bridge> <louis> ya sol is gonna be interesting to test
02:08 <+bridge> <louis> it will get security filtered bro
07:26 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Yes that is what I removed agai
07:26 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> N
09:25 <+bridge> <melon> f*ck vodafone. this is the third RPI in 3 months. I call them and they casually tell me it can take up to two weeks, i tell them i'm reliant on Internet for work. They tell me they can give me unlimited data within the duration of the RPI.
09:25 <+bridge> <melon> Cool, 200kb/s upload is exactly how i sustain a proper vpn connection to work.
09:27 <+bridge> <jxsl13> got no problems with dsl 50mbit with them. you got cable?
09:28 <+bridge> <melon> i'm afraid so, old house.
09:28 <+bridge> <melon> however i have even worse experiences with DSL :kek:
09:31 <+bridge> <melon> i'm afraid so, old house.
09:31 <+bridge> <melon> 
09:31 <+bridge> <melon> -# TIL DSL is supposed to be worse than cable
10:47 <+bridge> <melon> > use claude to generate an AI prompt for a project structure
10:47 <+bridge> <melon> > use local qwen3.6-27b to create the project structure, the files and make sure it works for now.
10:47 <+bridge> <melon> > use gemini to write documentation while qwen is working
10:47 <+bridge> <melon> > write pseudofunctions in a new textdocument, copy-paste the content into the LLM for it to integrate it into the project
10:47 <+bridge> <melon> 
10:47 <+bridge> <melon> i have ascended to be an AI developer now, wheres my 120K annually
10:48 <+bridge> <manikoo> here
10:49 <+bridge> <qetoast> we gotta pay for your tokens first :cammo:
10:49 <+bridge> <melon> i'm pushing my local LLM to heaven
10:49 <+bridge> <melon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522162317272289461/image.png?ex=6a4777a0&is=6a462620&hm=9cc5e57d680631ea043ccfb997b86ff0a0490b1d0c8f75d9a07b1962b2a4ef91&
10:51 <+bridge> <teero777> lmao
10:51 <+bridge> <melon> :ohNooo:
10:51 <+bridge> <melon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522162794831679631/image.png?ex=6a477812&is=6a462692&hm=3e532a7b43285b914adde6a98000d688ffaddbbee0640f0003deb9dedee98d39&
10:51 <+bridge> <melon> time to buy a mac studio for 200K context
10:55 <+bridge> <melon> ah okay the more i exceed the loaded context it just gets delulu
10:55 <+bridge> <melon> 
10:55 <+bridge> <melon> "i would like to execute `touch my_file.txt`"
10:55 <+bridge> <melon> "wait.. the file exists, why? `ls -al`"
10:55 <+bridge> <melon> "ooh.. okay. nevermind then, i'll continue with.. >>internal server error<<"
11:26 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> 120K annually is for the people that build AI not the ones that use it to generate slop xd
11:31 <+bridge> <zavzagali> just use kumruv2
11:32 <+bridge> <zavzagali> https://huggingface.co/vngrs-ai/Kumru-2B
11:32 <+bridge> <zavzagali> its better than qwen3.6
11:35 <+bridge> <melon> > It excels at tasks related to the nuances of the Turkish language, such as grammatical error correction and text summarization.
11:35 <+bridge> <melon> 
11:35 <+bridge> <melon> doesnt sound like my usecase
11:37 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> is this gonna be the @kebscs  comeback=
11:37 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> is this gonna be the @kebscs  comeback?
11:37 <+bridge> <legendsciber> r/FoundTheTurkishUser🥀
11:39 <+bridge> <zavzagali> its better than qwen3.6 27b
11:39 <+bridge> <zavzagali> believe me
11:40 <+bridge> <zavzagali> just try
11:42 <+bridge> <zavzagali> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522175524250587207/image.png?ex=6a4783ed&is=6a46326d&hm=9bae4b61bfb93f5004a59b8fe8d9f6df16b299379cbbe5c940d772ebde800a2c&
11:42 <+bridge> <zavzagali> it is
11:43 <+bridge> <melon> that benchmark is.. unrelated to my usecase
11:43 <+bridge> <zavzagali> just
11:43 <+bridge> <zavzagali> try
11:44 <+bridge> <zavzagali> its
11:44 <+bridge> <zavzagali> for
11:44 <+bridge> <zavzagali> ur
11:44 <+bridge> <melon> please form full sentences
11:44 <+bridge> <zavzagali> usecase
11:44 <+bridge> <legendsciber> Kumru 7B is essentially just a bird-brained autocomplete engine drowning in Turkish tokenization overhead while trying to run an English logic system on pocket lint
11:44 <+bridge> <zavzagali> just try
11:44 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> enter ≠ space
11:44 <+bridge> <zavzagali> 🤐
11:45 <+bridge> <legendsciber> yk how hard to say ts as a Turk ?
11:47 <+bridge> <zavzagali> its better than qwen3.5-9b
11:47 <+bridge> <zavzagali> kumru-2b > qwen3.5-9b
11:47 <+bridge> <zavzagali> just try it on local
11:47 <+bridge> <legendsciber> just dont make us look like fools
11:47 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> we got it. please stop spamming that now, @zavzagali
11:47 <+bridge> <zavzagali> im not spamming
11:48 <+bridge> <zavzagali> im just trying to teach u
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> Does anyone here know, how the client handles incoming snaps and how/if it extrapolates them until it receives the next snap, either when connected to a server, or when reading a demo?
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> I am aware of three possible methods of extrapolating snaps to create a simulated, future snap.
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 1. Gameworld prediction: I believe this is what antiping is about, but could also be in effect without antiping, at least for our own tee. This is simply the client thinking that it can simulate the entire server physics, and using it to extrapolate a past game state.
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 2. Dead reckoning: This system is in place to allow the server to not update the charactercores too frequently. It *could* (but is probably unsuited to) extrapolate the tees into the future.
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 3. Using the velocity in the CharacterCore. It is a simple way to extrapolate tees into the future. Remember the last time a server crashed and suddenly all tees move linearily into the direction they last moved, also through walls. I assume this is simply because the client extrapolates using the velocity
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> I would greatly appreciate it if someone could share that knowledge: When is each extrapolation used?
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> Bonus question: During rendering, we extrapolate tee positions inbetween two ticks. Are those two ticks always extrapolated from the same original snapshot, or are those also sometimes from two different snapshots send by the server?
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> 
11:54 <+bridge> <patiga> Related: https://github.com/heinrich5991/libtw2/pull/139#discussion_r3507600542
11:58 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> whole snaps aren't simulated AFAIK
11:59 <+bridge> <patiga> Then I think I wrote most of my rendering based on a wrong assumption 😅
12:00 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> what do you mean by "simulating a snap"?
12:00 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> we don't create a snapshot object AFAIK
12:00 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> but we do update our local variables like we think the server would have updated them
12:00 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/bb354b04580fe6e9de433035dc627c97368f4261/src/game/client/gameclient.cpp#L748
12:00 <+bridge> <patiga> wait true, I'm not doing that. The assumption I'm talking about is that I need two snaps to interpolate inbetween in order to render stuff
12:01 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> this seems to be the linear interpolation/extrapolation
12:01 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> it's not based on speed, but on the last two character positions apparently ^^
12:01 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I thought that was only used when we predict tees more than 1 s into the future, but I can't find that right now
12:02 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> ah, that one: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/bb354b04580fe6e9de433035dc627c97368f4261/src/engine/client/client.cpp#L2918-L2923
12:03 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> dead reckoning is unrelated to prediction AFAIK
12:03 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> only to get updated characters for snaps
12:06 <+bridge> <patiga> This interpolates either between "predicted" players, or "local" players. "Predicted" would suggest to me that both prev and non-prev players originate from the snap. With "local", it would first sound to me like both players could be from different snaps
12:08 <+bridge> <patiga> that same snippet also suggests that the predictedgameworld, which probably relates to simulating most of the physics, only happens if this isn't a demo and antiping is enabled
12:15 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> omg is this spaghetti ^^
12:17 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> apparently `m_PredictedPrevChar` is our prediction for the tick before `PredGameTick` (https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/bb354b04580fe6e9de433035dc627c97368f4261/src/engine/client.h#L160-L162) and `m_PredictedChar` is our prediction for the tick returned by `PredGameTick`
12:18 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> (I got that from reading the source code)
12:18 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> (anyone wanna PR the explanation to the member variables? ^^)
12:19 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> here: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/bb354b04580fe6e9de433035dc627c97368f4261/src/game/client/gameclient.h#L335-L337
12:22 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> You pr I merge :p
12:22 <+bridge> <melon> is the "PR's vanishing" and not being able to find them via searching still an active topic? i thought thats fixed :o
12:22 <+bridge> <melon> ChillerDragon: i swear i looked through existing issues with a bunch of keywords and couldnt find #10047 :D
12:22 <+bridge> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10047
12:22 <+bridge> <melon> is the "PR's/issues vanishing" and not being able to find them via searching still an active topic? i thought thats fixed :o
12:25 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Heinrich renamed my issue he removed „alias“ from the title which broke the search
12:25 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Or maybe it’s GitHub idk
12:25 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Usually finding based on title words works well
12:27 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I plan to address \#10047 after my rcon roles pr got merged! I also can’t give my mods access to all of antibot but I need more than just the dump command
12:27 <+bridge> <melon> me 🤝 chillerdragon after all?!?!?!
12:27 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Always have been
12:27 <+bridge> <manikoo> denied
12:28 <+bridge> <melon> i simply want a way to pipe what a single server knows to a truthful source that i can use to sync all other 700 gameservers with
12:28 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Isn’t that the case already?
12:28 <+bridge> <melon> maybe its time to implement gRPC
12:28 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I usually get banned on all ddnet servers at once
12:28 <+bridge> <melon> :shook:  sumimasen
12:29 <+bridge> <melon> yes, but its a hacked in way, doesnt work for everything we need and is reliant on discord atm.
12:29 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I see
12:29 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I don’t mind it not working tbh
12:29 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Being banned sucks
12:29 <+bridge> <melon> 😆
12:30 <+bridge> <melon> ima hit the store and think about what you said again - thanks for input
12:35 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I mean if you need it you need it idk
12:36 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> It’s just I couldn’t even get an client id argument merged so all these specific hooks seem a bit intense
12:36 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> iirc it doesn’t even cover vote mutes just chat mutes and the ABI will have to change for every new moderation command
12:36 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> A more flexible interface that is generic enough to require less changes is better imo
13:00 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Yo, what can I do about the rustc version (requires 1.85.0) while on Linux Mint my rustc version is 1.75.0 stable?
13:01 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Do I need cargo experimental to get the version or what's going on
13:01 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522195618770980864/image.png?ex=6a4796a4&is=6a464524&hm=2fcd9e55f7e379ea07f4c62c1d17d95f2a352bf292d49e3b29d4ebdcaaacd431&
13:02 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> use rustup
13:02 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> lemme see
13:03 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> so it's just straight up replaces rustc with rustup
13:03 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> The error is very misleading then xd
13:04 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> https://rustup.rs/
13:04 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> > An *installer* for the systems programming language Rust
13:05 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Should I add extra info about how to resolve this problem in the cmake file, or should this info be on the README?
13:06 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> ... oh, just updating the README to replace 'rustc' with 'rustup' fixes it
13:12 <+bridge> <melon> You mean.. the one I proposed where you made it sound like it's a modding API so it got verbally declined? :kek:
13:18 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> which linux mint version do you have?
13:21 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> potentially, you could just install `rustc-1.85`. could you try that? `apt install rustc-1.85`
13:26 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> @blaiszephyr yes modding api is declined by heinrich, but in my superior opinion that would actually be good!
13:30 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> modding apis and plugin systems fix feature creep in the main code base
13:30 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> and create flexible systems for users to quickly click together something that they need
13:35 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> latest stable version
13:36 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I don't think older kernel versions affect the result in terms of installing rustc or rustup. I genuinely think that rustc is outdated on the current Main branch
13:37 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> yeah moment
13:40 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Yes it works, rustc-1.85 is a dev version. I'm not sure if you want to use nightly versions of the Rust compiler to avoid unexpected crashes and errors, so I proposed the 'rustup' fix
13:41 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> At least rustup stable version works, maybe it uses the dev version?
13:41 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> At least rustup stable version works, maybe it uses the dev version of rustc?
13:42 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Eh. I think it's just the convenience that rustup provides, including the capability to upgrade itself to the latest version. Any objections or suggestions?
13:44 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Next pr will be \#12345
13:46 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> https://tenor.com/view/tf2heavy-cry-scouts-caps-heavy-rage-heavy-gif-20678232
13:46 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I missed the opportunity
13:51 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> next target is #69420 ig
13:52 <+bridge> <manikoo> 54321
13:52 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> It's less funny
13:53 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> next funny pr would be #80085
13:53 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Next is \#22222
13:53 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> :troll:
13:53 <+bridge> <manikoo> boobs
13:54 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> @milkeeycat: ban them
13:55 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> *bans them*
13:55 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> W discord moderator
13:55 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> @milkeeycat: you looking for side quest?
13:56 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> I'm looking for a typo to make a #12345 PR xd
13:56 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Ah okay never mind I let you lock in
13:56 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I don't think I should make 2 PRs in a row so I'm out ;-;
13:56 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> But some idiot did add typo checker to CI so it will be tricky
13:56 <+bridge> <manikoo> make account system
13:57 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> I was kidding
13:57 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> chillerdragon: what's the side quest?
13:57 <+bridge> <manikoo> for 12345 pr
13:57 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> lol
13:57 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I need idle proxy for Minecraft
13:57 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I can write one in 4 lines of python without dependencies for Teeworlds
13:57 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> But idk Minecraft
13:58 <+bridge> <kebscs> https://tenor.com/view/dawid-jasper-pszczu%C5%82ka-smiech-kekw-gif-15768523
13:58 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I need this for new 2b2t version which is 1.24.4 I think https://github.com/themoonisacheese/2bored2wait
13:58 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> lol, lmao even
13:58 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> 2bored2teelib
13:59 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> hyper optimized, blazinly fast tokenized quantum multimacro GPU based rewrite
13:59 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> hyper optimized, blazingly fast tokenized quantum multimacro GPU based rewrite
13:59 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> me neither, I never did anything for Minecraft, I only play it once a year thinking I'll finally finish the game(didn't finish it once)
14:00 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Xd
14:00 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> But you are 10x engineer
14:00 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> are *you* looking for a side quest? 😬
14:01 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> Never :p
14:01 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I am a problems guy not a solutions guy
14:01 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> if you say yes, then can you implement a CTFE in my compiler pls?
14:01 <+bridge> <manikoo> maintainer btw
14:02 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> who needs permanent solutions when you can spit out problems more efficiently?
14:02 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> - Rust Engineer, probably
14:04 <+bridge> <chillerdragon> I only know CTF
14:04 <+bridge> <manikoo> capture the fatigue
14:04 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> compile time function evaluation btw
14:05 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> hmmmm
14:19 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> what do you mean by "dev" version? can you give its `rustc --version --verbose` output?
14:23 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522216161947816117/image.png?ex=6a47a9c6&is=6a465846&hm=f71b4737d1da318209389b42e903339d9eb390b60ed404414bf1d8f7163c8c2e&
14:24 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> interesting, it is a stable release however not published as "rustc", but it's own "rustc-1.85"
14:25 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> That just convinced me to use rustup instead
14:26 <+bridge> <melon> rustup manages rustc/cargo symlinks under ~/.cargo/bin for you, so you dont have to deal with that yourself
14:26 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Checked the rustup, what version of rustc it uses
14:26 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522216806780240066/image.png?ex=6a47aa60&is=6a4658e0&hm=47be1a2c2d624547df94967f52f9f98fba76fac1d83f5fee9a828dee8bc9b08d&
14:26 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I see, yea, that won't get autodetected by the `CMakeLists.txt`
14:26 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> 1.96
14:26 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> makes sense to recommend rustup, but I'd only recommend it to the user if `rustc` is too old
14:27 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> well, older branches would still have the old README no?
14:27 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> And... for the most convenience, it shouldn't really matter as long as we understand what rustup actually provides, which is a better way to upgrade rustc I guess
14:28 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> installing `rustc` works on some distributions — and it's generally better to use distribution packages rather than installing other stuff
14:28 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> other stuff doesn't get updated automatically
14:28 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> What do you prefer?
14:29 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I'd keep the command as it is right now, and add a note below it that the user can try installing `rustup` if the `rustc` package of the distribution is too old
14:34 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> And about the cmake command providing extra info about this issue?
14:35 <+bridge> <melon> I looked into that and multiple other issues (the build simply failing with no proper output when you use the wrong toolchain, for example) but i couldnt find a way to properly do that in CMake
14:35 <+bridge> <melon> could maybe use a shell script wrapper :D - unsure
14:38 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> you could say something like "You can use `rustup` to obtain newer versions of `rustc` if your distribution only ships too old versions."
14:41 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I'll leave that to you, since you know better what versions of rustc is being used for what purpose
14:42 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> you can use the text as the second line. I think your suggestion of adding a hint to the user would be helpful there
14:42 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Sure, well that should be it I guess
14:43 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Managed to compile the workspace after all and didn't have any weird issues with the executables
14:43 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> So maybe I should experiment with Rustup just to see what could break potentially?
14:44 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> no, it's fine. I know rustup, it should be good in most cases
14:44 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> alr
14:44 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I guess you could add a line that you need to `rustup update stable` to get the newest rustc version?
14:45 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> well, how do we know we have rustup?
14:45 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I mean in the README
14:45 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Oh xd
14:45 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> for the user, not automatically execute it
14:45 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> yeah
14:46 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> rustup stable provides rustc 1.96 anyway, so it's fine to just` rustup update`, it *should* default to their stable release
14:46 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> if not, then it's fckin stupid idk
14:48 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> `rustup update` only updates already installed toolchains
14:48 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> so if the user doesn't have `stable` installed — well I guess in that case the user already knows what to do?
14:48 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> not sure
14:48 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I have no clue how to replicate this cuz idk what toolchain I could remove even
14:49 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> you could add it as a safety measure, idc
14:49 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I'll remove clippy and see what happens :troll:
14:50 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> nooo it doesn't let me
14:52 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> `rustup component remove clippy`
14:52 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> that's unfortunate, I already did `rustup toolchain remove stable` xd
14:52 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I'll try both
14:53 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> that works to remove the toolchain `stable`
14:53 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Ok, so that one needs `rustup update stable`
14:54 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> oh, removing clippy is kinda weird
14:55 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> it doesn't get missing components
14:55 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> it doesn't get missing components using `rustup update stable`
14:55 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> :justatest:
14:55 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> ... we could add them with `toolchain add` tho
14:56 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> you can install a more minimal `stable` toolchain using `rustup toolchain install stable --profile=minimal`
14:56 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> still won't get clippy installed, it only cares about rustc
14:57 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> bruh
14:57 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I'm not sure what you want ^^ `rustup toolchain install stable --profile=minimal` doesn't install clippy (by design)
14:57 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> if you want to install clippy where it's not already installed, use `rustup component add clippy`
14:58 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I'm just messing around with rustup, imagine I forget to reinstall clippy xd
14:58 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Ngl rustup is more fun to mess around than with only rustc
15:01 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> ... we could add them with `component add` tho
15:06 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> 😄
15:12 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I slightly improved the look of the dep install command to separate installing rustup or rustc
15:12 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> maybe this way it's less cluttered with info and directly addresses the possibility for a version mismatch or outdate
15:13 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> ofc this means running two commands separately, so inefficient omg 4+ clicks?
15:57 <+bridge> <ryozuki> clippy should come with ur usual rustup install
15:58 <+bridge> <ryozuki> btw if u hae a project with 10 crates as source and u do multiple profiles, debug,release, etc ur target folder goes xcrazy
15:59 <+bridge> <ryozuki> i easily cleared 300gb in target/
16:15 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> cargo should really grow some cache clearing logic
16:20 <+bridge> <melon> i use https://github.com/dnlmlr/cargo-clean-all
16:41 <+bridge> <avolicious> I cleaned our build cache, 11.8TB freed
16:41 <+bridge> <avolicious> We are using https://github.com/mozilla/sccache
16:42 <+bridge> <ryozuki> i dont use it cuz i fear the grow
16:42 <+bridge> <ryozuki> i dont have tbs to spare
16:42 <+bridge> <ryozuki> xd
16:42 <+bridge> <avolicious> We are using a GCS bucket 😄 They scale pretty good, also money-wise :lol:
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> rust is also extremely more verbose outputing debug info
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> like easily 10x more
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> and it also affects "perf" parse time
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> xd
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> btw debian "perf" sucks
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> my perf report doesnt work
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> cuz a addr2line issue
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> i cant seem to find how to fix
16:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> but perf script works
16:44 <+bridge> <ryozuki> https://hotpath.rs/
16:44 <+bridge> <ryozuki> requires code changes
16:56 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> :pepeW:
16:56 <+bridge> <ryozuki> i mean the cli tool
17:20 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> omg I have color now
17:20 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> https://tenor.com/view/dancing-dancing-dragon-meme-dancing-dragon-how-to-train-your-dragon-gif-8073539544582318207
17:21 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> btw why ain't clangd properly detect the include paths, wtf
17:40 <+bridge> <kebscs> but how can you revert rust when it was done to fix some unspoken of gamebreaking bug
17:51 <+ChillerDragon> @cellegenrih u have compile_commands.json?
17:52 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> No it's not there
17:52 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> can you send the config here?
17:53 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Idk if in your case, I'm asking too much 😄
17:54 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I think the `compile_commands.json` has absolute paths, so chillerdragon's won't work for you
17:55 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> this file is generated by `cmake`
17:57 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> hm, or maybe not by cmake itself, but you have to pass `-DCMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS=ON` flag to `cmake` xd
18:00 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> are you sure this is the right flag?
18:02 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v4.4/variable/CMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS.html
18:03 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> seems so
18:03 <+ChillerDragon> ye it good stuff i have `export CMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS=ON` in my bashrc
18:04 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> oh, it's also an env var 😮
18:04 <+ChillerDragon> i think any cmake flag can be env var
18:04 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> but the env var probably only works on first build
18:04 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> no: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/variable/PROJECT_BINARY_DIR.html
18:04 <+ChillerDragon> hmk
18:05 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> just a random one I looked at
18:05 <+ChillerDragon> well this one can be and its super useful because i need it for all my projects
18:06 <+bridge> <aegisub> idk why this isn't simply on by default
18:06 <+ChillerDragon> yea its not that bloated
18:06 <+ChillerDragon> but i assume if every tiny thing not everyone needs is on by default that might pile up
18:07 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> seems not, otherwise I wouldn't have this issue
18:10 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> alr, now I can truly mess with the entire workspace
18:12 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/actions/runs/28600782681/job/84808228965?pr=12344 Do I have to fix the linting or why does it fail on one singular README file change
18:14 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> LIke, I'm sure the ubuntu-latest-fancy should pass without issue, but it's not somehow
18:14 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> LIke, I'm sure the ubuntu-latest-fancy should pass without issue, but it's not somehow (is it supposed to fail??)
18:19 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> not due to your PR
18:20 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> idk why I had to push literally nothing but ok
18:20 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I love github desktop
18:20 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> wait, don't push merge commits into the PR ^^
18:20 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> idk, my shit is buggy ;-;
18:21 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I'm going to remove the merge commit again, you don't have to do anything
18:21 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> oh btw, what would happen if I just remove my branch on my fork?
18:21 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> the whole pr would disappear?
18:21 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> maybe
18:21 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> I don't know
18:21 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> wait until it's merged
18:22 <+bridge> <heinrich5991> then you can remove the branch (and it won't close the PR anymore)
18:22 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I could test that out on my own repos
18:22 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I know that much, just wondered what would happen during a PR xd
18:29 <+bridge> <ryozuki> i think auto closes
18:30 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> So if I decide that my changes were absolute dogshit, I could just nuke my PR? lmao
18:30 <+bridge> <ryozuki> ye? ur pr is always in ur control kinda
18:30 <+bridge> <ryozuki> but why make a pr in first place
18:30 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> unless someone (ahem heinrich or deen) force push it
18:30 <+bridge> <ryozuki> a pr is just u requesting git merge <ur branch> against the target
18:31 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I don't like any other way than requesting merge via PR
18:31 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> let's say I fckin hate github for force push and stuff
18:31 <+bridge> <ryozuki> linux works via email patch diffs
18:31 <+bridge> <ryozuki> u just send a patch file
18:32 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I could do that xd
18:32 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> but why tho
18:32 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> unless it's like a thirdparty lib in the repo, I wouldn't use patches
18:32 <+bridge> <ryozuki> git diff main > blabla.patch
18:32 <+bridge> <ryozuki> its the original way to use git
18:32 <+bridge> <ryozuki> github is a facade
18:33 <+bridge> <ryozuki> u should look up how git works
18:33 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Even if I just experienced the weirdest bug in github desktop, I still prefer that
18:34 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I don't think the interface has an option to generate patch diffs
18:34 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> so only via terminal
18:36 <+bridge> <ryozuki> git is just a  content-addressable merkle directed acylic graph
18:36 <+bridge> <ryozuki> https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Internals-Git-Objects
18:36 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> ok, "merkle" and "acylic" is equal to fck-all in my brain
18:38 <+bridge> <ryozuki> all are interesting concepts to learn
18:38 <+bridge> <ryozuki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree
18:38 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> so merkle is a data block and acylic... is plastic?
18:39 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> sounds interesting, what scenario is actually useful for? like multithreading processes?
18:40 <+bridge> <ryozuki> this is used everywhere
18:40 <+bridge> <ryozuki> ok not everywhere but its like core part of torrent, git, internet
18:41 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> the more you know
18:41 <+bridge> <ryozuki> also what most blockchains use
18:41 <+bridge> <ryozuki> any decentralized protocol also probs uses merkle trees
18:43 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> I wonder where the word "merkle" came from originally
18:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Merkle
18:43 <+bridge> <ryozuki> its always a person
18:43 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> aha
18:44 <+bridge> <ryozuki> " invented cryptographic hashing"
18:44 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> well I found a company called Merkle GmbH
18:44 <+bridge> <ryozuki> basically this person invented literally one of the most important things
18:48 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> So to summarize, all content from git which relates to transfers go through a merkle tree, which can be presented in a "acylic" graph?
18:48 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> as part of hash verification?
18:49 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> for me, hashes are still outside my capabilities so I have no idea if I got it right
19:03 <+bridge> <aegisub> um akshually it's `git format-patch`
19:10 <+bridge> <melon> @heinrich5991 about #12335 - i had a quick chat with Avolicious:
19:10 <+bridge> <melon> 
19:10 <+bridge> <melon> > ӎěłŏƞ [Tee], Role icon, confirmed — 6:47 PM
19:10 <+bridge> <melon> > @avolicious Are you currently/still "only" the Hoster of KoG? - or are you still doing moderative/administrative tasks
19:10 <+bridge> <melon> > 
19:10 <+bridge> <melon> > i'd like to ask you about how you're currently syncing bans across all of your servers
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > regarding this pr: #12335
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > Heinrich mentioned ban-synchronization could be useful for others too, and i agree, however i have no idea whats a proper "suits all" solution is, and if you'd even want that at all
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > 
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > I figured asking our biggest partner-community makes the most sense 😆
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > my idea was utilizing the antibot interface for it to keep it closed-source, but i thought asking wouldnt hurt :p
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> >  [Tee], 
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > AvoliciousRole icon, |*KoG*| Member — 7:02 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > I guess our rules are too different for a shared database, maybe in terms of syncing cheaters somehow might make sense, but this is hard as we also have different anticheats & we would need to exchange .teehistorian probably to verify the cheat?
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > Ah, just our servers.
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > ӎěłŏƞ [Tee], Role icon, confirmed — 7:05 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > i was more thinking generally implementing an upstream solution all parties could utilize
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > 
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > i.e a Sink that generalizes these events one could plug into their existing infra - not a shared database, i missworded that - my bad ^^
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > AvoliciousRole icon, |*KoG*| Member — 7:05 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > Well, we use a entirely different approach 😄
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > ӎěłŏƞ [Tee], Role icon, confirmed — 7:05 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > i assumed so :D
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > AvoliciousRole icon, |*KoG*| Member — 7:06 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > Our current production implementation abuses the dnsbl implementation, but the next gen uses gRPC to communicate with some microservices
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > ӎěłŏƞ [Tee], Role icon, confirmed — 7:06 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > i also want gRPC but it feels super bloaty.. maybe i can somehow with enough prayer convince heinrich to do the same :D
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> >  [Tee], 
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > AvoliciousRole icon, |*KoG*| Member — 7:06 PM
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > gRPC is bloaty, but we need this for microservices & I dont want to maintain wire protocol 😄
19:11 <+bridge> <melon> > neither I want to maintain the connection pool, connection nor multiple frameworks for different programming languages
19:11 <+bridge> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/12335
19:12 <+bridge> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/12335
19:20 <+bridge> <melon> @learath2 you mentioned the thought of using gRPC before too iirc? - whats your stance on that currently
19:21 <+bridge> <learath2> Mh, it is a little annoying that you need to bring in a nasty extra compiler for protobuf
19:26 <+bridge> <melon> from what i can see grpc has quite a lot of dependencies
19:26 <+bridge> <melon> 
19:26 <+bridge> <melon> Protobuf, Abseil, c-ares, re2, and BoringSSL
19:27 <+bridge> <melon> espacially BoringSSL would proof quite painful with our existing openSSL dep
19:29 <+bridge> <melon> JSON posts to a webhook endpoint? :justatest:
19:34 <+bridge> <kebscs> why are my messages getting deleted?
19:34 <+bridge> <kebscs> i asked why revert rust if it was supposed to fix a gamebreaking bug
19:35 <+bridge> <melon> uh, what gamebreaking bug was it supposed to fix? it was security vulnerabilities
19:36 <+bridge> <kebscs> yea then security vuln same thing
19:36 <+bridge> <melon> and the reasoning was stated in the PR description 😆
19:36 <+bridge> <kebscs> thanks ill reread it then
19:36 <+bridge> <kebscs> no need to delete my messages
19:36 <+bridge> <melon> > It had too many unfixed problems for too long. See e.g. #12075. I plan to fix these before re-introducing the refactor. Revert the refactor so that our releases are no longer blocked.
19:36 <+bridge> <melon> 
19:36 <+bridge> <melon> ^^
19:36 <+bridge> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/12075
19:37 <+bridge> <melon> some minor things were fixed in minor PR's after that, AFAIR
19:37 <+bridge> <learath2> That's fine too, the nice part of gRPC is that it supports streaming and bidirectional communication. If you've read my initial ideas on a more generic backend communication network, you might see why those might be desirable
19:38 <+bridge> <learath2> (technically grpc just uses http/2 as its transport layer, so it is possible to do these things with json too)
19:39 <+bridge> <melon> i think the biggest issue a JSON-webhook approach would have is the typical fire-and-forget approach of it
19:39 <+bridge> <melon> its either a 200, a 402 or a 404 :justatest:
19:40 <+bridge> <melon> its either a 200, a 401 or a 404 :justatest:
19:40 <+bridge> <learath2> What are you making again?
19:40 <+bridge> <melon> replacing #bans
19:41 <+bridge> <melon> which results in either every gameserver being vary of one another, or a source of truth approach.
19:41 <+bridge> <learath2> I'd suggest just replacing @DDNet and doing nothing more
19:42 <+bridge> <learath2> Unless you are looking to do it properly once and forall
19:43 <+bridge> <melon> the most permanent things are temporary solutions ._.
19:43 <+bridge> <melon> i'd like something i can build stuff on top off, instead of next to each other
19:43 <+bridge> <avolicious> replace all with grpc
19:43 <+bridge> <avolicious> strong contract
19:43 <+bridge> <avolicious> forward & backwards comp
19:44 <+bridge> <melon> thanks for volunteering Avo, i'll await your PR within the next 2 workdays
19:44 <+bridge> <melon> :pepecry:
19:44 <+bridge> <avolicious> Contributing my ugly code upstream, too much work to be honest
19:44 <+bridge> <learath2> but then questions like "what do you envision building in the future that can build off the top of this work?" comes up
19:45 <+bridge> <learath2> Because if you want to design for future things, you need to first think about what you are designing for. What sorts of things you might want to implement, what they require
19:47 <+bridge> <learath2> If you just want to do bans properly the requirements are relatively concrete and straightforward, we need a database-ish solution, we replicate it read only on all nodes, the database needs to expose a streaming changes api so all gameservers can listen to it
19:48 <+bridge> <learath2> At startup gameservers subscribe to changes, then do a `SELECT * FROM bans`, then it just works, if at any point for whatever reason we lose connection, we just bootstrap the connection again by getting a full list. As long as we have a local replica on all nodes that should pretty much never happen barring some bizarre issue
19:51 <+bridge> <learath2> It should(tm) be enough, but we can also overengineer it too, we could use a custom "database" whose data can just be mmap'd into all the gameservers
19:53 <+bridge> <murpi> @blaiszephyr bans stored in ScyllaDB, streamed via Kafka, materialized into Redis, then memory mapped into the game servers, and debugged using 14 microservices and a dedicated observability team 
19:53 <+bridge> <murpi> 
19:53 <+bridge> <murpi> gg ez
19:54 <+bridge> <melon> @claude implement this, make no mistakes
19:54 <+bridge> <learath2> Probably the kind of thing it would be good at, it has lots of buzzwords in there
19:54 <+bridge> <jxsl13> this
19:55 <+bridge> <murpi> or just do it like discord: https://discord.com/blog/how-discord-stores-trillions-of-messages
19:57 <+bridge> <murpi> though thats just the database part
19:57 <+bridge> <murpi> should replace mariadb with this :greenthing:
19:57 <+bridge> <learath2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-copy-update here is a keyword to start with if you want to go down the turboearlyoptimization path
19:57 <+bridge> <jxsl13> should replace mariadb with postgres.
19:57 <+bridge> <melon> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
19:57 <+bridge> <jxsl13> 👀 based
19:58 <+bridge> <learath2> based opinion, I've actually been thinking about this one
20:03 <+bridge> <avolicious> but we dont have trillions of users 🙁 so we dont scale this much
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> i'll propose a v0.0.0.0.0.1:
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> 
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> * Postgres as source of truth with logical replication
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> * snapshot on gameserver startup
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> 
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> if not
20:03 <+bridge> <melon> rawdog http webhooks
20:04 <+bridge> <murpi> Discord doesn't have trillion of users either
20:04 <+bridge> <murpi> This is about storing messages, not users
20:05 <+bridge> <murpi> Messages are equivalent to ranks in DDNet here :P
20:05 <+bridge> <avolicious> But the have atleast million of users
20:05 <+bridge> <avolicious> But they have atleast million of users
20:05 <+ChillerDragon> who even uses discord in big 2026
20:07 <+bridge> <murpi> A couple more generations:
20:07 <+bridge> <murpi> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1522302687834804445/image.png?ex=6a47fa5b&is=6a46a8db&hm=199fb38b2e6c9067dccd1659ca8627b50a2f5059b18c4cab00f306ff0767b340&
20:11 <+bridge> <milkeeycat> @0xdeen I've read your post "Finding Bugs using LLMs", I'm curious how posts writing work at your workplace. Do you come up with the ideas for posts yourself or do you get told to write on requested topics, or both?
20:44 <+bridge> <learath2> >  * IMPORTANT: 137 config files in '/etc' need updating.
20:44 <+bridge> <learath2> um gentoowhat
20:45 <+bridge> <sollybunny> its better than silently doing nothing or .pacnew
20:45 <+bridge> <sollybunny> it doesnt write them incase you have config
20:45 <+bridge> <sollybunny> it could try to be smart, but it would break ur config
20:46 <+bridge> <sollybunny> is probably why it doesnt
20:47 <+bridge> <sollybunny> <https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Cfg-update>
20:47 <+bridge> <sollybunny> <https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/dispatch-update>
20:47 <+bridge> <sollybunny> cool shi
20:48 <+bridge> <learath2> I like the system, 137 is just randomly alot, I was wondering why
21:12 <+bridge> <louis> solly rename
22:02 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> ahm, turns out making a simple property present on map groups kinda sucks xd
22:03 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> But managed to do this without any help from an llm
22:05 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Now I just need to somehow get all valid layers in the group that has an m_animation (or idk the property name) property and just toggle between nulltpr and the last selected animation
22:05 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> Now I just need to somehow get all valid layers in the group that has an m_animation (or idk the property name) property and just toggle between nulltpr and the last selected animation... how hard could it be
22:05 <+bridge> <cellegenrih> :thonk: