04:14 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1494883714541424731/image.png?ex=69e43a73&is=69e2e8f3&hm=fa451d3cf21f9bcbbfbb286bc6f2170b370918fd4bdc3c2a5aa0811a0ecbe98c& 04:14 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1494883838986551479/image.png?ex=69e43a90&is=69e2e910&hm=b1ae37439e4ed2359fde3e3976c2ebba2637c1f40c21d99ee3880bf5bdf2488c& 06:16 <+bridge> OwO 06:40 <+bridge> @uq_alx on esteroids 08:22 <+bridge> mhh, yeah I guess the topbar menu could work out, should test that out, especially in mobile where width is more of a problem than desktop, left navigation looks too bad compared to the topbar which looks much more modern 08:22 <+bridge> but generally its not too far from my approach i'd say 08:22 <+bridge> 08:22 <+bridge> you save one layer in the container where the maps are, which i like, tho i use it to put all the filters (ofc the filters are currently a bit too much, need better sizing etc) 08:22 <+bridge> But except the topbar menu, i'd not directly say it has more soul, would you? and if so, why exactly? 08:22 <+bridge> The text under "Map releases" for example ofc sucks in my version, its what the current page uses i just copied pasted, that's defs in the range of change anyway 08:22 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1016027360555958292/unknown.png?ex=69e45ef7&is=69e30d77&hm=e8846cec2fbcdd5be3b71d98165452739e511b2f64b670ce63b212e4966034df& 12:53 <+bridge> 🍿 12:56 <+bridge> Eh, he did say that he'd quit that one PR got merged, I respect that 12:56 <+bridge> Good luck in your future endeavors 12:56 <+bridge> im with kebs 12:56 <+bridge> losing valuable contributors as days go 12:57 <+bridge> ignoring this is a bad thing btw 12:57 <+bridge> but u do u 12:58 <+bridge> Nothing I can do, he made it pretty clear who he has a problem with 12:59 <+bridge> more like the same reason all other devs left, me included 13:00 <+bridge> also lot of ppl fear talking here out of being banned for anything 13:00 <+bridge> me included 13:00 <+bridge> but im reaching a point where im less and less attached to ddnet lately 13:00 <+bridge> so i care less 13:02 <+bridge> am I correct that https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-discordbot hasn't been the active source for @DDNet in a while? Does someone else have the current repository? Or maybe it's completely private 13:02 <+bridge> Hm, I think murpi's fork is the running one right now, unless we are running anything experimental 13:04 <+bridge> Maybe not his fork also looks out of date, @murpi what are we running now? 13:05 <+bridge> A slightly older version of this: https://github.com/murpii/ddnet-discordbot-dev 13:05 <+bridge> That's a commit 😄 13:05 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495017437609853018/image.png?ex=69e4b6fd&is=69e3657d&hm=667dcc58fa8f9731c00d0048a1c308f3008e3b04d3beae6b4f34bfbab98a72cb& 13:05 <+bridge> what about the current one? 13:06 <+bridge> Can we get the main version back up to date and you can work on there? 13:07 <+bridge> FWIW you can talk about whatever, it's that these conversations always devolve into just namecalling and personal insults 13:08 <+bridge> With the way I worked on the current version of the bot, I'd need to push updates on a hourly basis 😄 13:09 <+bridge> That's fine, we can have a "rolling branch" that we keep deploying while you work on it 13:09 <+bridge> not rly, because u can frame something as making drama and its a easy way to end up discussions one might dislike 13:09 <+bridge> Then we can merge it into master when its stable 13:09 <+bridge> talking from xp 13:11 <+bridge> I used "slightly" to convey that the only diff is a minor fix here and there 13:11 <+bridge> chillerdragon, **jupstar**, kebs, ryozuki 13:11 <+bridge> these people did not leave because they didnt want to continue contributing to ddnet, but for another reason, which i wont explain to avoid namecalling 13:12 <+bridge> if u dont see the problem, its sad, because those are actually long time contributors, and im specially sad about jupstar leaving, he literally made the entire graphics backend, no easy feat 13:12 <+bridge> maybe there is more ppl out there i forgot but u get the gist 13:12 <+bridge> so so what you see on that page is pretty much what we run atm 13:13 <+bridge> Actually no I lied, the ticket system we currently run an even older version 13:14 <+bridge> The discord.py is very modular thanks to their extension system 13:14 <+bridge> ah, okay, thanks 13:16 <+bridge> Also also, you cannot run the bot yourself anyway, since it heavily depends on our specific database setup. The only reason it is public is to give others a rough idea of how it is structured ^^ 13:18 <+bridge> I remember trying to run it a couple of years ago, but got stuck right on the config 13:27 <+bridge> saying there is nothing that can be done about this is not quite the truth 13:55 <+bridge> @kebscs 💟 13:55 <+bridge> rip kebs 13:55 <+bridge> love ur work 13:56 <+bridge> https://tenor.com/view/salute-gif-8977961 13:56 <+bridge> thanks guys 13:58 <+bridge> sorry kebs, but you should have focused on adding more dependency on Rust or support for version 0.4.* or something, then your PR wouldn't be hanging for half a year. 14:00 <+bridge> even then it might wait half a year, i think the problem might be that my nickname doesnt start with "h" and end in "5991" :kek: 14:01 <+bridge> do you mean hprclosed5991 ? 14:02 <+bridge> and sorry that I had to close everything, but I dont have the willpower to deal with how the project is being ran :/ 14:03 <+bridge> it's understandable 14:03 <+bridge> i think the main problem is that players don't have a voice and most people don't even know what contributors do. need to run an advertising campaign for every PR to get support from players, I guess. 14:03 <+bridge> youve got a good chunk of nice features in 14:04 <+bridge> click spectate especially is awesome 14:08 <+bridge> well, I've already tried that with spectator counter. It got like 200 votes on discord and yet it still wanted to be reverted, instead of fixing 1 issue :/ 14:50 <+bridge> with no kebs anymore who is gonna add these features which make the game more enjoyable :/ 14:51 <+bridge> you can donit 14:51 <+bridge> you can do it 14:52 <+bridge> cant 14:52 <+bridge> well i can 14:52 <+bridge> but i dont wanna deal with what kebs really dealt with 14:53 <+bridge> doesnt seem very enjoyable 14:54 <+bridge> why does every good game have to have some glaring problem that never gets resolved 14:55 <+bridge> Spec counter is great 14:55 <+bridge> It makes me lock in 14:58 <+bridge> I liked a lot of kebs features and new tile proposals, but I don't think "if this gets merged I'll leave" is a good attitude as well, meh 15:04 <+bridge> well its been multiple months of what it seems him getting frustrated of things that heinrich does that kebs doesnt like so it is understandable that he doesnt want to contribute anymore, and if he doesnt want to contribute anymore then his prs should be closed. it would be worse imo if he just went mia on his prs and never said a word as it would leave people thinking that the prs arent dead and he will come back soon 15:05 <+bridge> i think its alot more beneficial if they could just have a conversation with each other and sort their differences if they havent tried 15:06 <+bridge> i think its alot more beneficial if they could just have a conversation privately with each other and sort their differences if they havent tried 15:09 <+bridge> I agree 15:11 <+bridge> Take a look at the rust pr, every commenter got ignored and it got merged with no valid reasons 15:11 <+bridge> If there are rules on the repository it should apply to everyone or noone 18:31 <+bridge> <4er1kkk_666> bro 18:31 <+bridge> <4er1kkk_666> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495099524828364971/1.jpg?ex=69e50370&is=69e3b1f0&hm=1f49fd7a5038c9c281066a5f10de2c118bac03fdaed7735715c1749326b23908& 18:31 <+bridge> <4er1kkk_666> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495099525591863377/2.jpg?ex=69e50370&is=69e3b1f0&hm=33ebcbdf67f40c03b735aa7aebf83d2757b646d31c914725a4e3d060e59a044b& 18:31 <+bridge> <4er1kkk_666> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495099526900617257/3.jpg?ex=69e50370&is=69e3b1f0&hm=294d75437803164cc66428c9c32ea11b3963949c9a682d3a97d261388fd16d3d& 18:31 <+bridge> <4er1kkk_666> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495099527630422016/4.jpg?ex=69e50370&is=69e3b1f0&hm=f72b75e5b8451ec8089a49e0a614f0d1af1c82dddcaea78bb3aa9e7220dde76b& 19:12 <+bridge> yet another great dev gone 19:12 <+bridge> :feelsbadman: 20:20 <+bridge> so whats going on with heinrich 20:40 <+bridge> What now 20:44 <+bridge> we cry 20:45 <+bridge> I won't 20:45 <+bridge> I saw this coming long ago, old contributors and veterans leaving 20:46 <+bridge> we, except for Cellegen, cry 20:46 <+bridge> better now? 20:46 <+bridge> Tell me instead what happened 20:47 <+bridge> i dont really have the full story 20:47 <+bridge> Didn't check up here since March 20:47 <+bridge> but my best guess is that theres some pr from heinrich that got merged while ignoring others' comments on it 20:47 <+bridge> thats what i recall from all of this 20:48 <+bridge> Did Heinrich commented something about this after effect or full silence since then? 20:49 <+bridge> havent read anything mentioning it from his side but i mightve missed it 20:50 <+bridge> What pr was it even? 20:52 <+bridge> no clue tbh 20:52 <+bridge> This PR is wild btw 20:52 <+bridge> ive just been reading chats here and there 20:52 <+bridge> # check my bio 😁 20:52 <+bridge> ok 20:52 <+bridge> oh 20:52 <+bridge> wow 20:52 <+bridge> that was so fast 20:52 <+bridge> Anyways xd 20:53 <+bridge> take everything ive said with a grain of salt btw i have no real clue whats going on 20:54 <+bridge> Approving a change in the Rust build where an outdated version can cause problems, without having the slightest hing of red flag is nuts 20:54 <+bridge> Is this what he's doing rn as in that recent pr? 20:54 <+bridge> chiller the issue isnt that 20:55 <+bridge> i think its more that hein can get a pr merged without anyone agreeing to it 20:55 <+bridge> and others have to get Xperson specifically to get the pr merged 20:55 <+bridge> even if 100 ppl like it 20:55 <+bridge> even if other devs like it 20:55 <+bridge> oh, well idk what pr can be an example of this 20:55 <+bridge> I just got here 20:55 <+bridge> the pr rewriting delta to rust 20:55 <+bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11957 20:56 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495135942627954698/image.png?ex=69e5255b&is=69e3d3db&hm=e6f1786c08b8cd1e26ae3d0b503d8b7c9f9596eec7366f188ab837adf360d3e8& 20:57 <+bridge> cellegen the issue isnt that 20:57 <+bridge> Well, I sorta understand moving to Rust, in case the environment for building is friendlier, 20:57 <+bridge> ur missing the point entirely xD i go back to slay the spire 2 20:57 <+bridge> Im reading it xdd 20:57 <+bridge> So this wasn't necessary 20:57 <+bridge> he just did it just cause? 20:58 <+bridge> whether its necessary or not is besides the point 20:58 <+bridge> pr had ppl questioning it, if the pr was made by me, it would have dragged months or a year 20:58 <+bridge> but its by someone more privileged, it got merged in days 20:58 <+bridge> even if it had ppl questioning it 20:59 <+bridge> so i feel its only logical devs leave a place where they are barely welcomed, and a place where you see power discrepancies like this, even more when its a open source game, that had no obvious BDFL 20:59 <+bridge> Like Kebs with a reasonable amount of PRs close to that change being unresolved, right? 21:00 <+bridge> i wish forking would work but its hard to mimic the whole infra, which is what makes this game live 21:01 <+bridge> If only there was a good reason that it got pushed through after all the technical comments on it were handled 21:01 <+bridge> Hmmm, heinrich didn't comment on that further, Learath didn't bother too much, and I assume Kebs' work just got harder? 21:01 <+bridge> Alas, there obviously wasn't one. I'm just evil 21:01 <+bridge> If Im getting it right, idk 21:01 <+bridge> ? 21:01 <+bridge> You went to sleep no 21:02 <+bridge> sleep = evil xd 21:02 <+bridge> I said it, it's out there now, I'm just pure evil. I fan the flames of controversy to see ddnet burn down 21:02 <+bridge> this is the internet, we don't assume good faith here, what even is that? 21:02 <+bridge> idk, the evil argument and stuff, 21:02 <+bridge> if it was just one outliar dev ok, but its happening all the time, all devs leaving 21:02 <+bridge> tbh when jupstar left, it was kinda a bit over for me and ddnet 21:02 <+bridge> the guy is insane 21:02 <+bridge> he made a entire replica alone 21:02 <+bridge> I don't blame you bumbo, I just highlight what I see 21:03 <+bridge> Idk shit 21:03 <+bridge> He was veery good, hope he comes back sometime 21:03 <+bridge> this is just sad 21:03 <+bridge> he actually commented on the vulkan pr i made some time ago 21:03 <+bridge> which i closed anyway 21:04 <+bridge> One thing sure bothers me, that's an insane amount of prs, to just ignore 21:04 <+bridge> That PR just had to be merged so I can turn ddnet into Rust, so I can get people to hate Rust for my end goal of destroying Rust and putting C++ back on top 21:05 <+bridge> https://tenor.com/view/people-who-be-desperate-for-attention-kamedwards-kameron-edwards-sigh-annoying-gif-15490938148885036745 21:05 <+bridge> Would it make the game smell better if the same shit was under a different toilet? 21:05 <+bridge> it's almost like people review code in their free time 21:06 <+bridge> See this is the sort of stuff you get timed out for. Just can't keep civil 21:06 <+bridge> Eh? 21:06 <+bridge> I personally do not care, so feel free to go on if it helps you unwind 21:06 <+bridge> I hope I didn't hurt your feelings with a joke 21:07 <+bridge> Although I apologize, the game is not shit 21:07 <+bridge> It's a nuclear waste 🙂 21:08 <+bridge> dude is going to joke about "being evil" 3 times and then get angry for a meme 21:09 <+bridge> that sounds like someone that personally doesnt cares ngl 21:09 <+bridge> embracing the jonkler :kek: 21:09 <+bridge> Not angry, just pointing it out for Ryozuki who was wondering why people get banned for "speaking their minds" 21:09 <+bridge> although that fits me more 21:10 <+bridge> after being granted a new color from the above gods, all I can say is that we should really talk more with each other. 21:10 <+bridge> I hurt Jao's feelings, then Heinrich's feelings, now you buddy 21:11 <+bridge> 3rd ban is the charm 21:11 <+bridge> why the pr author doesnt talk with us :/ https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11957 21:12 <+bridge> because this entire PR was handled badly, and your comments actually forced changes onto the PR 21:12 <+bridge> because this entire PR was handled badly, and your comments actually forced changes onto the PR, so you did good 21:12 <+bridge> This entire situation could've been handled with a single dm targeted towards you :justatest: 21:12 <+bridge> what changes? i got ignored, after I helped with the actual refactor 21:13 <+bridge> I would never get hurt by your extremely constructive criticism 21:14 <+bridge> Good 21:15 <+bridge> why towards me? all contributors got ingored in the pr 21:15 <+bridge> Back to Kebs, what now? He could go to Tater maybe 21:16 <+bridge> And let Heinrich's ignorance (not towards his dev works but) towards Kebs leaving is sad 21:17 <+bridge> because the "being ignored" part has a reason which could and IMO should've been disclosed. alas why I said the entire PR was handled poorly. 21:17 <+bridge> yeah it was handled poorly, and i dont want to be part of that 21:17 <+bridge> if an anon is more equal than others 21:18 <+bridge> thats why i closed all prs 21:18 <+bridge> Ik I'm not the person you want to hear this from, but all your work is appreciated, be it little or large. 21:19 <+bridge> That's the common stance in this community* 21:19 <+bridge> People look forward to you and your changes made, and it'd be sad to see history repeat itself 21:19 <+bridge> A PR that moves much faster than others, with some comments mysteriously not answered by the author 21:20 <+bridge> You can handle that part privately as adults 21:21 <+bridge> Right now, Kebs is leaving, and I hope he either forks all his progress to work on, or have other ddnet forks take right care for your work and criticism 21:22 <+bridge> I hope he comes back, but a fork is also always nice to have around, look at Tater's fork flourishing 21:22 <+bridge> tldr plz 21:22 <+bridge> you might want to share whats going on instead of trying to be funny 21:22 <+bridge> or you'll probably get a cortisol spike again 21:22 <+bridge> We can't, that's the point. 21:23 <+bridge> Not as of right now, at least. 21:23 <+bridge> Heinrich Rust build pr, kebs points things out, heinrich merges without looking at kebs note, kebs leaving as a result, we cry 21:23 <+bridge> entirety of ddnet is ran by community but we cant know why 12k loc of rust slop is pushed into the repo 21:24 <+bridge> Technically I merged it, so you can distribute the blame a little 21:24 <+bridge> thats why i dont want to be part of it 21:24 <+bridge> no, you had to deal with heinrich first, so it's fair that you didn't do it under your only intuition 21:25 <+bridge> After all, heinrich made the pr 21:25 <+bridge> he is responsible 21:25 <+bridge> he is responsible (he could've reverted the merge otherwise ) 21:27 <+bridge> Anyway, no point discussing this right now with you having half the story. Give it a day or two, if seeing the explanation you still feel the way you feel then we can talk 21:27 <+bridge> You can even DM me all the gamer words you want and I won't tell anyone, pinky promise 21:27 <+bridge> alr, I'm up anytime if you finally wish to share your side 21:28 <+bridge> This situation was very predictable imo 21:28 <+bridge> All of the ohio skibidi toil- uuugh 🤮 21:28 <+bridge> ahh yes the transparency you'd expect of a open source project 21:29 <+bridge> open forked more like 21:29 <+bridge> technically open source doesnt imply transparency 🤓 21:29 <+bridge> Yeah disgusting isn't it, how they merged a PR completely in the open that was fully technically reviewed 21:30 <+bridge> We all know that isn't what is meant. 21:31 <+bridge> dw, if you make that joke the 6th time, someone will have to finally laugh 21:31 <+bridge> 6th time the charm they say 21:31 <+bridge> ... I think he was talking about melon saying you all should've settled it under pms, would make some sense 21:32 <+bridge> Idk guys, I only have sus on heinrich rn 21:32 <+bridge> it's really not that hard to think of a reason why this was handled the way it was if you just assume good faith 21:32 <+bridge> i dont assume good faith when the pr is submitted by a toxic anon 21:33 <+bridge> I mean, we talk about this right now, it's good 21:33 <+bridge> and there you have it 21:33 <+bridge> who exactly? 21:34 <+bridge> oh heinrich, right 21:34 <+bridge> Eh, idk him being toxic, but rather forcing thing his way, yeah that. 21:34 <+bridge> Eh, idk him being toxic, but rather forcing things his way, yeah that. 21:35 <+bridge> In moderation and care, it's fine ig 21:35 <+bridge> but him not disclosing this with you Kebs, feel more of an asshole move to me 21:37 <+bridge> id expect the project to be transparent when its mainly ran by contributors 21:37 <+bridge> And I fully agree, as a council of the most experienced contributors should work together, not against 21:38 <+bridge> and i dont see a great reason for this change to be in rust specifically, teeworlds been around for 20 years without it 21:38 <+bridge> I agree this was handled poorly, no way around it. But this case wasn't something that should've been disclosed publicly at all. You are being ignored simply because "the PR wasn't set to private" in a theoretical sense 21:38 <+bridge> that's a great idea 21:38 <+bridge> maybe those most experienced contributors could also get a special color on discord 21:38 <+bridge> green could work 21:39 <+bridge> I know this is a weird statement, but do you think you could've written the provided changes cleanly with no UB and no memory issues in C++? 21:39 <+bridge> Then why do I see Kebs being fully ignored by the founder? 21:39 <+bridge> ofc 21:40 <+bridge> i see the only reason for rust being chosen for this is that hein is a vigorous poster on /r/rust reddit 21:41 <+bridge> is the language of choice the reason to go fully crashout on someone publicly? 21:41 <+bridge> im not crashing out though 21:42 <+bridge> im saying rust is the not right choice, when there are 0 rust developers on the project 21:42 <+bridge> I may get that you don't like mixing multiple languages into one giant spaghetti (I hate that too xd) 21:42 <+bridge> but I don't think that the first thing to do is hate him specifically for posting a PR about that, 21:42 <+bridge> but rather that your opinion didn't matter to him 21:42 <+bridge> valid kebs crashout 21:42 <+bridge> Kinda 21:43 <+bridge> if there was a great reason for it in rust i dont mind 21:43 <+bridge> I didn’t read anything just saw the comment on gh not here for the drama actually 21:43 <+bridge> i even helped reviewing the snap refactor pr 21:43 <+bridge> Then I'll gladly ask for patience until we can disclose this further 21:43 <+bridge> Which you mentioned to him yee, and got completely ignored 21:43 <+bridge> @avolicious: is there a way to put in a word for someone banned without having discord? 21:43 <+bridge> Currently we're screeching at different topics 21:44 <+bridge> hmmmm 21:44 <+bridge> Currently we're screeching at different topics from different PoVs with a different base of knowledge 21:44 <+bridge> tl dr, kebs is leaving 21:45 <+bridge> seems like a pretext for having more rust 21:45 <+bridge> @avolicious: a Moderator of mine who I trust quite a lot got banned on kog for botting because he sent a suspicious chat message. His discord ticket got deleted. He does not cheat. We just like to mock cheaters on fng by imitating them. You know the good old „checkout this client“ joke 21:45 <+bridge> oh no, are you vouching on a "trust me bro" player? 21:46 <+bridge> No I am not 21:46 <+bridge> or it's a joke and im a retard 21:46 <+bridge> He helped me a lot to develop my antibot 21:46 <+bridge> And it’s a joke to imitate cheaters spam messages 21:46 <+bridge> He had a bind from fng 21:46 <+bridge> hi chiller, 21:47 <+bridge> Kinda intense that his ticket got deleted because of sending a harmless chat message 21:47 <+bridge> Yo ryo 21:47 <+bridge> so Im a retard, big 💪 21:48 <+bridge> permbanning for a chat message seems over the top for an anticheat :kek: 21:48 <+bridge> Maybe it was a manual ban idk 21:48 <+bridge> It’s just his appeal got deleted which is why I am trying to vouch 21:48 <+bridge> ..wat 21:48 <+bridge> 21:48 <+bridge> No, and I'll dip here as well - hope to see you around in the next few days when we're able to provide more details 21:48 <+bridge> But tricky without discord maybe avo sees it 21:49 <+bridge> There's an entirely different repo on ddnet client in Rust no? 21:49 <+bridge> I figured as someone that has been banned from kog multiple times I am a creditable player 21:49 <+bridge> i dont like whatever youre doing being kept secret in a community ran project. This and toxicity from hein, im not keen on contributing more 21:49 <+bridge> When I find some time I gotta read up on the kebs situation. 21:50 <+bridge> @kebscs: hang in there c: you know I love you right 21:50 <+bridge> ofc @chillerdragon love you too 21:50 <+bridge> owo 21:50 <+bridge> gl reading at least 200 msgs from "adults" xd 21:51 <+bridge> I'm more familiar with the "secrets" part, I can relate 21:52 <+bridge> I really don't understand how we all assume bad faith when something isnt publicly disclosed 21:53 <+bridge> If that discussion is as important, then you bet your sweet bibby it needs to be discussed 21:54 <+bridge> any form of disclosure would've been nice. We don't need the full picture. A simple: security reasons, money reasons or whatever it the least informative form would've been enough honestly 21:54 <+bridge> Like a long-time contributor leaving 21:54 <+bridge> The fuck is a sweet bibby? 21:54 <+bridge> like, that's important shit 21:54 <+bridge> https://tenor.com/view/ed-edd-eddy-bet-gif-19216515 21:54 <+bridge> oh bippy :troll: 21:55 <+bridge> Ah sounds like brainrot 21:55 <+bridge> i dont think i assumed bad faith before, just the point that its unmainatable code and goes against all rules 21:55 <+bridge> good old 2010 brainrot 21:56 <+bridge> we have 3 admins in our staff team that can read and write rust, calling it unmaintainable makes as much sense as saying every python script is, because the core project is written in C++ 21:56 <+bridge> Idk about the "all rules" part, where it's still dependent on what the founder wishes at the end of the day 21:57 <+bridge> which of those are maintainers? 21:57 <+bridge> From what I've read so far, it will be disclosed on the next release. Not earlier than that. 21:57 <+bridge> 2/3 21:57 <+bridge> One of them has just started learning Rust, what a developer 21:57 <+bridge> let me know who are the 3 admins, ill check out commits to the repo 21:58 <+bridge> contribution != Knowledge 21:58 <+bridge> Well then that could've been said so 21:58 <+bridge> knowledge != activity 21:58 <+bridge> (I just did 👀) 21:58 <+bridge> in that moment when it was asked why its done 21:58 <+bridge> knowledge doesn't matter if they don't contribute 21:58 <+bridge> why u talk like corpospeak, are u bound by a nda to not say stuff? 21:58 <+bridge> 🐴 21:58 <+bridge> Obviously too late tho 21:59 <+bridge> imo, Rust is still new and might cause trouble in the future, I get that point on why not use Rust in production yet 21:59 <+bridge> Yes, I've talked about it as well, and I fully agree. 21:59 <+bridge> uh hiding dev related things seems like a new low ball 21:59 <+bridge> i didnt expect that 21:59 <+bridge> also if its some thing like announing accounts its even worse 22:00 <+bridge> So all people close to heinrich scatter, ironic 22:00 <+bridge> https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/1495150110043017377 22:00 <+bridge> also if it was a security issue there are better ways 22:00 <+bridge> I would like at least the man himself commenting on the issue 22:00 <+bridge> whats astonishing is how u assume we will assume keeping things secrets when this was never done before would be accepted blindly 22:00 <+bridge> I doubt that xd If its that thats I'd jump off a mountain (in minecraft) 22:01 <+bridge> im sorry but dont expect to treat us like dumb lol 22:01 <+bridge> big :f3: 22:01 <+bridge> whats worse is u not sharing this then with usual devs 22:01 <+bridge> like kebs? 22:01 <+bridge> im rly confused now 22:01 <+bridge> finally a developer in this space who says the fckin obvious 22:01 <+bridge> . 22:02 <+bridge> Well I did say there is a good reason for it, even said we can talk about it afterwards if the reason felt unsatisfactory, a month ago when the PR was initially made 22:02 <+bridge> this is not how u do things in a project like this, atleast there is no previous thign alike, and imho its rly unfaithful to other devs 22:03 <+bridge> Learath, melon, any admin, can we get heinrich to talk with us here? 22:03 <+bridge> i mean everywhere gatekeeping is never seen in good sight 22:03 <+bridge> At least to have him talk to Kebs, properly 22:03 <+bridge> And not ghost him 22:04 <+bridge> Its not a "Voxel" situation again, Kebs is normal 22:04 <+bridge> @fokkonaut got timed out for speaking about the pr 2 days ago, you guys didnt even try to handle it not poorly 22:04 <+bridge> and hes still timed out btw, if you could remove that :) 22:04 <+bridge> Its not a "Voxel" situation again, Kebs is normal, you can talk to him 22:05 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495153357340545174/image.png?ex=69e53592&is=69e3e412&hm=0fda52efb37d1755a8e8a1b706cc318547b2d6dd15ed1038f137a08760b50d47& 22:05 <+bridge> okay i guess there is a big security issue related to snaps somewhere 22:05 <+bridge> but u should explain this to trusted devs 22:06 <+bridge> which at this point 22:06 <+bridge> How would you define a trusted dev? 22:06 <+bridge> im gonna check this stuff 22:06 <+bridge> this was pulled out of the rust pr on request of roby, and i helped review these changes 22:06 <+bridge> (I'm just curious, because I'd only trust very close friends with an exploit) 22:07 <+bridge> A dev who you can trust on reviewing, arguing and coming to a reasonable conclusion 22:07 <+bridge> duh 22:07 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495153756671578353/image.png?ex=69e535f2&is=69e3e472&hm=00383c30b6fc6fe47ab31f618fc1e507906995049220e326164616cbd5d0926e& 22:07 <+bridge> So you guys would trust people who just contribute to a code base a lot? 22:08 <+bridge> id trust them more than someone that wasnt active on discord for years and then comes back to spin up drama 22:08 <+bridge> Plot twist: heinrich abandons all community media, just to do whatever 22:08 <+bridge> kinda yes kebs been around for long 22:08 <+bridge> hi tater 22:09 <+bridge> so this is all hiding a security release 22:09 <+bridge> that was kinda obvious 22:09 <+bridge> He never was an asshole or entitled to me 22:10 <+bridge> Which is kinda weird 22:10 <+bridge> but still true 22:10 <+bridge> ok so this is all about a rce 22:11 <+bridge> that is also pretty stupid. let the server owners know first so they can update their mods to not be vulnerable. unless it's not a security related issue. 22:11 <+bridge> depends on what exactly the issue is but yes agreed 22:11 <+bridge> avo won't merge upstream in 100 years if you don't tell him 22:12 <+bridge> I don't know how I feel about that. I recently watched a video about the xz utils case, where a contributor built up trust over time by contributing a lot, became a maintainer, and then slipped a backdoor into the project. There are likely more examples like this, so I find it hard to agree with that idea. 22:12 <+bridge> Also I trust long time developers more, than you climbing the ladder to admin, only to not have anything important to be discussed cuz someone in the admin team said so 22:12 <+bridge> xz is used worldwide and u can target big targets with it, ddnet is a game 22:13 <+bridge> Thats not relevant to my question though. 22:13 <+bridge> how can we tell you arent slipping a backdoor? 22:13 <+bridge> at least contributor's prs are reviewd 22:13 <+bridge> your argument is invalid though 22:13 <+bridge> I mean that is not relevant at all to this conversation, this PR went through technical review. What was unsettled was other concerns 22:14 <+bridge> less than a day omfg 22:14 <+bridge> It was just an example to show that "someone who contributes a lot can be trusted" is not a reliable assumption, at least not if that is the only factor considered 22:14 <+bridge> ye looks like less than a day since last commit 22:14 <+bridge> A month, the PR was made exactly 1 month ago today 22:14 <+bridge> (Yes, pretty off-topic, I was just curious 😄) 22:14 <+bridge> nvm 22:14 <+bridge> wrong time format 22:15 <+bridge> What argument? 22:15 <+bridge> so why cant a maintainer go rogue? 22:15 <+bridge> in 99.9999% of the cases and especially for a game with only a few thousand players. anyone that spends thousands of hours of contributing can definitely be trusted 22:15 <+bridge> That can happen, of course 22:15 <+bridge> example to show? Shaming a long time contributor??? 22:16 <+bridge> Dare 22:16 <+bridge> you'll never be able to get in front of this, there are cases of fully open source software getting backdoored by very long term contributors 22:16 <+bridge> yea im seeing this happening rn on ddnet repo 22:16 <+bridge> That doesn't mean you should 22:16 <+bridge> pr against the community 22:17 <+bridge> even if its not a literal backdoor its still not what communtiy wants to see 22:17 <+bridge> While you were chatting here, Fox reworked MomentCap for 0XF :) 22:17 <+bridge> 22:17 <+bridge> I'm just sharing my little achievement in this matter. 22:17 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1495156328019001374/image.png?ex=69e53857&is=69e3e6d7&hm=74c0cc93e5ca56309e9bdf4d82d7952c47c56f5fa876d3bca158321421427f8c& 22:17 <+bridge> that someone is going to intentionally gain your trust over years and then backdooring or exploiting things. there are already multiple exploits around the codebase that 0 people are using because no one gives a shit 22:17 <+bridge> sadly it's still a small close group 22:17 <+bridge>