07:50 <+bridge_> <deduskha_orig> discord.gg/2NMzpUpq
07:54 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> @Discord Mod
10:34 <+ChillerDragon> @robyt3 oh nice for looking into https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11232 I rebased it now. I wouldn't call it safe looking tho :D 
10:34 <+ChillerDragon> but back then i tested a lot, now after all the time and merges i cant promise much but ill do a little test right now
10:34 <+ChillerDragon> thanks* xd
11:03 <+bridge_> <Assa> testing more AI tools rn and letting it work on rendering xD It said the way I create the precomputed texture coords table is ineffecient
11:03 <+bridge_> <Assa> :kek:
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> i think the biggest weirdness of the super pr is this one https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11232#issuecomment-3566742882 @kebscs was that intentional that super can no longer pass through doors?
11:16 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> same goes for draggers etc i think
11:33 <+bridge_> <Assa> but ... draggers are sometimes required to finish a map 😮
11:34 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You can't finish in practice
11:36 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> It's about the fact that `TEAM_SUPER` was probably introduced exactly for that reason: Being able to pass doors, draggers, etc.
11:36 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> and collision with other tees
11:37 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You can still pass doors with `/left` etc. commands, right?
11:37 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> seem unintuitive, especially for practicing. why would you want doors closed in super? why would you not want to free yourself from a dragger using super?
11:37 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> seems unintuitive, especially for practicing. why would you want doors closed in super? why would you not want to free yourself from a dragger using super?
11:38 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> just my thoughts about it tho, i dont care and never used practice
11:40 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I consider super/invincible to be for map testing. Having all doors open seems weird. You should see the map like it would be and you can also set switches with `setswitch` for testing.
11:41 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> If that's DDNet's new definition of super, then sure.
11:41 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Sounds more like invincible though.
11:42 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I guess people use practice differently, since there is tc, tp, etc.
11:42 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I'm not here to stop this, just pointing out the behaviour change
11:44 <+bridge_> <robyt3> That mostly my understanding/opinion, I'm not sure what the original intention of super was. Invincible was introduced as a replacement for super that works in practice.
11:45 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Yes, so this change also affects rcon super
11:50 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I think super was kind of a godmode before, where it had endlesshook and interaction with all other teams by definition. So it required a separate team on core level
11:51 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Open switches might have been a side effect
11:51 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> we want to get rid of this separate team thing because it's a lot of maintenance overhead for a feature that is rarely used
11:52 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> That makes sense
11:52 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> The super handling was one bad part of the code anyways, split into `TEAM_SUPER` and `m_Super`
11:52 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Nobody used it consistently
12:01 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> The pr removes super and only keeps invincible basically
12:01 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> So is it okay that there is no way anymore to walk through closed doors?
12:02 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> If we stick with that I would like to hold back the pr and also visually close the door
12:02 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Or maybe it already is just my client is too old I forgot
12:10 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I think it's fine if walking through closed doors is only possible with the movement or setswitch commands now. But the visuals should be consistent to the physics.
13:21 <+bridge_> <Assa> Anyone opinions on making the hook collision line tip 50% transparent on default?
13:21 <+bridge_> <Assa> Anyone opinions on making the hook collision line tip 50% transparent by default?
13:22 <+bridge_> <Assa> Anyone opinions on making the hook collision line **tip** 50% transparent by default?
13:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> what would be the reasoning for that?
13:32 <+bridge_> <Assa> I find it visually a bit easier for the different use cases of the hook line, the tip also then doesn't "obstruct" the view when hooking a wall
14:13 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> sounds reasonable
14:22 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> @robyt3 i did not change behaviour of the debug shadow, can you explain your thought?
14:30 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I think we shouldn't show the shadow in debug anymore. It should be separate feature, especially if your new values for the setting already cover the old use case of the debug shadow.
14:33 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> It doesn't, I only added new options and left all of the old behaviour untouched
14:33 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I don't think we should hide the shadow from debug
14:34 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Would be irrelevant to this pr anyways
14:34 <+bridge_> <robyt3> This PR changes adds more values to the `cl_unpredicted_shadow` setting that cover the existing behavior
14:35 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Debug mode should not be used for non-debug features
14:35 <+bridge_> <robyt3> This PR adds more values to the `cl_unpredicted_shadow` setting that cover the existing behavior
14:35 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Then why was it mixed before?
14:35 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Only extended the functionality without going down a discussion like this...
14:36 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Maybe it was actually used for debug in teeworlds, but then players started using it as a feature
14:36 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> it didnt exist in tw
14:36 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> iirc
14:36 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I can remove it from debug mode first if you don't want to include it in this PR
14:36 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> ._. where is the sense, just merge and remove after?
14:37 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You are already rewriting the related lines of code
14:37 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> k
14:38 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> (thats the point, so it needs change again anyways...)
14:38 <+bridge_> <robyt3> But then it's better to first remove, instead of first changing and then removing
14:39 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Or do it at the same time
14:42 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Question still persists: Why is it a problem to keep it in debug mode? I see your point in not mixing "gameplay" features with debug, but in this case? I can add a new variable for showing it in debug mode though. But I remember heinrich not wanting to add too many config options in the past.
14:42 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> This existed for years, and was mixed
14:43 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I feel like you are restricting for no real purpose
14:44 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> "this existed for years" is not an argument against cleanup
14:44 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Is it a cleanup tho?
14:44 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> we shouldn't add more bad code just because we already have bad code
14:45 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Could you elaborate on why exactly this is bad, and how to overcome this without removing it's debug functionality?
14:45 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I don't want players to think that debug mode has any features that they can rely on except for debugging. The assumption should  be that we can remove/change things in debug mode however we want.
14:46 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I often use ctrl+shift+d to get a feeling for my ping / unpredicted shadow.
14:46 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Now with your proposal I need to enter the command every time.
14:46 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I don't see what it adds in debug mode. With your PR you can set `cl_unpredicted_shadow 1` to see the shadow for your own tee only.
14:47 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You can bind it.
14:47 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> But there is a fixed debug bind already
14:47 <+bridge_> <robyt3> For debug yes
14:47 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You can bind any other key combination for the shadow
14:47 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Isn't this some kind of debug feature?
14:48 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> To me it is
14:48 <+bridge_> <robyt3> No, then we wouldn't have `cl_unpredicted_shadow`
14:48 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> ???
14:48 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I will just say ok
14:52 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Would it be fine to add `cl_unpredicted_shadow_debug`?
14:54 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I don't want it to be affected by debug mode. Making `cl_unpredicted_shadow` more versatile and removing the behavior from `debug` seems fine.
14:54 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> so that's your subjective opinion on it
14:57 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> every opinion is subjective. not sure what you're trying to say
14:58 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> He's arguing out of the subjective opinion. It seems fine, because he doesn't want it, is how I read it.
14:58 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Anyways, I'll remove it entirely from debug then
15:08 <+bridge_> <Assa> The argument is, that debug code should not be used in non debug features. There are objective reasons with it which I do agree with. Idc, ~~bitch~~ please send patches 😘
15:09 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> toxic
15:09 <+bridge_> <Assa> 🙁
15:11 <+bridge_> <Assa> I just wanted to make the atmosphere a bit more relaxed, sometimes we are way to serious here in this channel
15:12 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Did you also want to make the atmosphere in my antiping pr relaxed, by telling me in the shortest form ever to "properly ping" the related issue?
15:13 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> I think they just wanted to ping the issue ^^
15:13 <+bridge_> <Assa> It was meant more as a note to you, that the title apparently doesn't ping the issue 🤷‍♂️  so I did
15:14 <+bridge_> <Assa> I would never front anyone about github beeing github
15:14 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> You guys are protecting each other circularly. Assa joins on a finished thread and heinrich protects Assa xD
15:14 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> in online communication, it helps to not assume bad intent of others
15:15 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I do not, why do you?
15:15 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
15:15 <+bridge_> <chairn> don't attribute malice to what can be attributed to incompetence
15:15 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> I really try to not assume bad intent. where have I done so?
15:16 <+bridge_> <Assa> We germans tend to be so factual sometimes, that people take it the wrong way. Factually you didn't ping the issue @fokkonaut , please don't take it personal
15:16 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> i'll stop arguing
15:16 <+bridge_> <chairn> don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence
15:19 <+bridge_> <Assa> I also didn't think about the ping comment in the PR longer than 1 second I assume 🙈
15:19 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> you dont seem to think a lot yea
15:19 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> oops, timeout incoming
15:21 <+bridge_> <Assa> (Before anyone actually does it, I'll allow it)
15:22 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I'd rather take a timeout than to need your permission to insult you, ~bitch~ 😘
15:22 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I'd rather take a timeout than to need your permission to insult you, ~~bitch~~ 😘
15:25 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Now lets keep this chat a little more factual and not so relaxed
15:25 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> uh so what color do you guys prefer the hook line tip to be? :justatest:
15:25 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> 50% alpha according to assa
15:25 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> what do you think?
15:26 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> i think it should stay as it is right now
15:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> just make it 50% Alpha, keep the color, don't ask again so we don't end up in a discussion :justatest:
15:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> what's your reasoning? You mean with 100% opacity right?
15:27 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Yes, my reasoning would be to keep it consistent with the original color. If you can provide a screenshot for comparison, I'd like to take a look first tho
15:27 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> well idm getting some opinions first tbh, there is 3 for and 1 against as far as I can tell
15:27 <+bridge_> <Assa> there is a screenshot in the pr, #11771
15:27 <+bridge_> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11771
15:28 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> it makes less of a difference than I thought it would after trying it out
15:28 <+bridge_> <Assa> so you can do 50% + 1/4 * 50% :owo:  /s
15:29 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I like 100% better as a default. Anything else should be customized
15:29 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> (from my subjective opinion)
15:30 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> I also think setting lower opacity is  a great way of showing this color picker supports opacity in the first place personally but ig people would figure it out eventually
15:30 <+bridge_> <Assa> yet another reason I'd put it on 50% is to maybe show, that this can be customized - however I am also fine with 100%
15:30 <+bridge_> <Assa> uh same argument 😄
15:31 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> solution randomize the default value /s :owo:
15:33 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Actually, to me it doesn't make any sense to customize the tip color at all.
15:33 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> It should take the same color as for the character check.
15:33 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> We should only add an alpha slider for the tip.
15:33 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> it does have the same color as tee check rn
15:34 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> it's easier to provide a complete color selector, I think
15:34 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Then merge both?
15:34 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> not being able to customize would be weird since you can customize the rest of the hookline too
15:34 <+bridge_> <Assa> the reason for allowing to change the color is to make it possible to have the "old hookline" back, or the current hookline
15:34 <+bridge_> <Assa> same for alpha
15:35 <+bridge_> <Assa> yes we could represent all of this in one setting like 0, 1, 2, 3 ....
15:35 <+bridge_> <Assa> or instead make it fully customizable
15:35 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> @heinrich5991 this would be a point to me that is quite objective: The tip indicates that a player can be hooked further than a block.
15:35 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Why would that have a different color? Alpha seems to be fitting though.
15:36 <+bridge_> <Assa> the default color is the same fokko, why **force** it?
15:36 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> If you're arguing like that: Why force to remove debug shadow, which was initially a debug-only feature?
15:36 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> because it is always tee check color even if a tee cant be hooked which makes it harder to react to the color change
15:37 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> To me it seems like y'all don't have clear principles to decide on. More like a vibe
15:38 <+bridge_> <Assa> ^ this is the deciding factor for me for a color with alpha
15:38 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> That is not exclusive
15:38 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I am saying it should be the same color as the tee, with a separate alpha slider
15:39 <+bridge_> <Assa> you can always make it the same color, as the current default suggests
15:39 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> k
15:40 <+bridge_> <Assa> some people like it red, like the very old hookline from 19.2
15:40 <+bridge_> <Assa> some people want the shorter hookline and will set alpha to 0
15:40 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> that doesnt make any sense
15:40 <+bridge_> <Assa> it does, if you only care about player hooking and not walls
15:40 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> then you wouldn't turn the tip to red
15:41 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> whateeever
15:41 <+bridge_> <Assa> this is how it was in the past 🤷‍♂️ I didn#t decide on this, if I decided on this, then there wouldn't be a hookline
15:41 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> we already had people asking for that in tclient
15:42 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> oh, hi ram
15:42 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> hi :owo:
15:42 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> since when do you code o.O
15:43 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> I just copy pasted existing stuff and made it like you suggested here
15:43 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> but then I basically had two sliders for alpha and was told to change it and I tried my best is all I can say xD
15:43 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> xxD
15:43 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> all good from my side
15:44 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> shoutouts to all the reviewers helping me out lol
15:44 <+bridge_> <Assa> this was a normal review process tbh - maybe you learned to appreatiate what we devs have to do in order to get some "small simple thing" through
15:45 <+bridge_> <Assa> like 20 pages discussions for 20 pixel line
15:45 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> typical ddnet dev experience
15:45 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> I think I do understand the structure a little better now atleast
15:46 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> I definitely do
15:46 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> i think a project like ddnet is especially terrible, because of nostalgia and old players.
15:46 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> @learath2 when will you deliver your promised way of making old freeze stars possible again?
15:47 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> :justatest: :kek:
15:47 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> how old are we talking? lol
15:47 <+bridge_> <Assa> I play the game for 17 years now
15:48 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> afaik freeze stars work again, no?
15:48 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> omagawd heinrich
15:48 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> its about the old in-gameworld stars, the damage indicators
15:48 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> damn that's longer than me
15:49 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> :frozen:
15:49 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/8934
15:50 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> GG @totar
15:50 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> but it doesn't seem necessary ^^ 1.5 years ago and you haven't noticed
15:50 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Nobody told me, and I was entirely inactive in ddnet
15:51 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> But i dont think it's only there for me, which you imply here
15:52 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Nowadays I like the freeze bar too, because you can see when to take a player out of freeze to get an unfreeze time of ~2 sec
16:01 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> @robyt3 I use 10% as default because 50 is too much. 40 is default on show others. And 10 is visible enough and not distracting if you enable unpredicted shadow for other players.
16:08 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Seems good. Doesn't seem like a frequently used feature to me so changing the default alpha should be fine. (And removing the debug feature changes the default anyway.)
16:08 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> I didn't want to say it
16:08 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> But glad you noticed yourself
16:08 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> xd
16:09 <+bridge_> <Assa> are you talking about ghosts?
16:09 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> go away assa
16:09 <+bridge_> <Assa> or the debug shadow thingy?
16:10 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> :kek:
16:10 <+bridge_> <Assa> I swear if you break my ghost oppacity settings 😠 then nothing will happen
16:10 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Broken!
16:10 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> :justatest: :owo:
16:10 <+bridge_> <Assa> _you'll ruin the game_!!
16:11 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> thanks for the laugh :poggers2:
16:11 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Jokes on me, I did break your ghost opacity
16:12 <+bridge_> <Assa> :feelsbadman:
16:13 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Is that you?
16:13 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1473336677152985219/image0.jpg?ex=6995d735&is=699485b5&hm=c6bf9f72fd8286e191351fbeaf20de58641c9a2ac5bd5371848119732776b8e7&
16:15 <+bridge_> <Assa> no, I feel closer to a toaster - still empty inside, but causing a lot of heat
16:15 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> Essiganlage
16:15 <+bridge_> <Assa> oh I thought it's a vacuum chamber 🤣
16:15 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> LOL
16:18 <+bridge_> <kebscs> can i get review on https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11682 or https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11702
16:19 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> #11682 is too dangerous physics change
16:19 <+bridge_> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/11682
16:20 <+bridge_> <kebscs> why
16:21 <+bridge_> <manikoo> "always rocket jump" sounds bad
16:22 <+bridge_> <manikoo> abuseable
16:22 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> I thought so too at first before fully reading but the bugged rocket jump is the same height as normal jump and unfreeze
16:22 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> @kebscs why do use this apply function? can we make this cleaner, with less code changes and logical ordering? Or is that not possible
16:23 <+bridge_> <kebscs> how?
16:23 <+bridge_> <fokkonaut> hmm
16:23 <+bridge_> <kebscs> logic is basically same as sv_no_weak_hook but applied to just laser unfreeze
16:23 <+bridge_> <kebscs> not sure how else to do it without the apply
16:25 <+bridge_> <Assa> @robyt3 I can't restart this failed job for some reason: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/actions/runs/22103923703/job/63881029270?pr=11771
16:25 <+bridge_> <Assa> I doubt somebody changed the permissions?
16:25 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> it's a timeout error can I restart it somehow?
16:25 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Not while other matrix jobs are still running
16:25 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Wait until all build-* jobs finish
16:25 <+bridge_> <Assa> no you can't, only maintainer can, leave this to us
16:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> I think it wasn't always like this 🤔 but okay
17:01 <+bridge_> <Assa> @fushi_gg do you want the contributor role on discord? ^^
17:08 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> I feel like I didn't do anything :D
17:10 <+bridge_> <robyt3> > Assigned to users with accepted pull requests on our main repository.
17:10 <+bridge_> <robyt3> It's for any accepted PR (except translations previously).
17:10 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> @robyt3 I forgot to change the reset button default value for the tip color, could you stop my pr in the merge q so I can fix it?
17:11 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Done
17:14 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> cheers I just pushed the fix
17:14 <+bridge_> <fushi_gg> sorry about that :D
17:33 <+bridge_> <Assa> this was also my mistake...