00:22 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Only half of the reality
00:23 <+bridge_> <avolicious> @fokkonaut How many people contributed to F-DDRace after you Open Sourced it?
00:24 <+bridge_> <kebscs> f-ddrace isnt a good comparison i think, bcs it doesnt have a lot of players
00:24 <+bridge_> <kebscs> but i doubt another custom client will have either
00:24 <+bridge_> <avolicious> > open source -> coders will come if they are interested
00:24 <+bridge_> <avolicious> F-DDRace was the first Teeworlds Mod that had 128p
00:24 <+bridge_> <avolicious> F-DDRace was the first Teeworlds Mod that had 128 players support
00:25 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Then he open sourced it & other modes just copied his 128 players support & they are now closed sourced 😄
00:27 <+bridge_> <kebscs> sad tbh
00:27 <+bridge_> <avolicious> And now fokkos server is gone
00:27 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Or atleast I cant find it
00:28 <+bridge_> <totar> copying code by hand is honestly becoming a sign of craftsmanship compared to just vibe coding the entire thing
00:29 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> if he really cares about that he should have GPLed
00:29 <+bridge_> <avolicious> ??????
00:30 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> 128 is not really a custom thing anyway
00:30 <+bridge_> <totar> why ????
00:30 <+bridge_> <totar> gorp is right
00:30 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> i doubt he cares anyway
00:30 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> what the fuck is the ??? about
00:30 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Do you think people care about licensing?
00:30 <+bridge_> <kebscs> noone cares about licenses XD
00:30 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> If they want to avoid legal fees sure
00:30 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Even if you would put AGPL on it, they dont care
00:30 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Try it
00:30 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Its fun
00:31 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> No one really wants to go to court though
00:31 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> but if the code is legit copied it's breaking law
00:31 <+bridge_> <totar> if you need to maintain a good standing with other good people then yes, you do have to care about it
00:31 <+bridge_> <totar> it's not just legal
00:31 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> imo thats more important than the law anyway
00:31 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> otherwise u get stuff like master bans, banning the players who use ur stuff
00:31 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> etc
00:31 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> social dynamic is a lot
00:32 <+bridge_> <totar> I don't think ddnet would be happy to accept communities who are known livence violators
00:32 <+bridge_> <totar> I don't think ddnet would be happy to accept communities who are known licence violators
00:32 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> as it is its pretty hard to be accepted
00:32 <+bridge_> <totar> I don't think ddnet would be happy to accept communities who are known license violators
00:32 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> so you're probably right
00:33 <+bridge_> <pioooooo> But they're close source how you gonna search evidence
00:34 <+bridge_> <totar> if they're not smart enough to make it themselves then it will be obviously copied
00:34 <+bridge_> <totar> see: cactus client
00:35 <+bridge_> <pioooooo> But they can argue
00:35 <+bridge_> <pioooooo> And things won't just go straight
00:35 <+bridge_> <avolicious> You cant take them to court anyways
00:35 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Before this goes to court, there is a long process & you need money for it ^^
00:36 <+bridge_> <totar> it's not about going to court
00:36 <+bridge_> <totar> you only have to prove to peers
00:36 <+bridge_> <totar> you can DMCA a github repo for GPL violations without any court case or money spent
00:36 <+bridge_> <totar> it happens often
00:37 <+bridge_> <avolicious> But thats Github Policy
00:37 <+bridge_> <totar> but it's real
00:37 <+bridge_> <avolicious> But its Github Policy
00:38 <+bridge_> <avolicious> A mapper cant decide where he hosts his maps, not even with the license. There is no way to enforce the license
00:40 <+bridge_> <totar> mapper could dmca ddnet master server owner for linking to infringing distribution of their work
00:41 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Who to contact? Who is the master server owner?
00:42 <+bridge_> <totar> whoever owns the domain
00:42 <+bridge_> <totar> dmca was invented to settle copyright infringment without court cases, it's very good at doing that
00:42 <+bridge_> <avolicious> I wonder when someone will try DMCA kog.tw
00:42 <+bridge_> <avolicious> I would be very interested to be honest
00:43 <+bridge_> <totar> false dmca is also illegal
00:43 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Any mapper before 2019 could do that, because at this time we changed the license
00:44 <+bridge_> <totar> all you'd have to do is remove their maps
00:44 <+bridge_> <totar> if the claim is real
00:44 <+bridge_> <avolicious> How should we verify the claim
00:44 <+bridge_> <totar> idk I'm know a lawyer
00:45 <+bridge_> <totar> idk I'm not a lawyer
00:45 <+bridge_> <avolicious> Even a lawyer would say thats tricky, because its not signed with a cryptographic signature to identify one individual or a group of individuals to proof the claim
00:47 <+bridge_> <totar> some parties are sensitive to actual risk of being taken to court (registrars, VPS, ect) so must make a best effort to decide if it's real or not
05:41 <+bridge_> <remakepower> lmao
05:42 <+bridge_> <remakepower> I think that's not limited by the license.
05:45 <+bridge_> <remakepower> Hm
05:45 <+bridge_> <remakepower> I don't think so
05:45 <+bridge_> <remakepower> There were some Block mods that had 256 players support before F-DDrace was created.
05:45 <+bridge_> <remakepower> But yeha
05:46 <+bridge_> <remakepower> But yeah
05:47 <+bridge_> <remakepower> F-DDrace is the first Teeworlds 0.7 mod that had 128 players support with backcompat and sevendown bridge.
08:48 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> I was just having fun learning how to do stuff, I never intended to go this far
09:36 <+ChillerDragon> solly u here
09:42 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> solly left the server
09:46 <+ChillerDragon> fr?
09:46 <+ChillerDragon> wtf why
09:48 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> solly is taking a break from ddnet
09:50 <+bridge_> <manikoo> solly 😭
11:18 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Milkeey editor pr wot
11:19 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> @milkeeycat: what made you do that? oO
11:26 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> Because... I like the game xd
11:26 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Noway
11:26 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Do you even play?
11:26 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> Almost every day -.-
11:26 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> So you just saw the issue opened and decided to give it a go? @milkeeycat
11:26 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> Ye
11:27 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Woah I didn’t know u play
11:27 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> Watafak
11:27 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> That’s so cool that you fix these bugs thanks :)
11:27 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> W catto
11:27 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> What do you play?
11:28 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> @milkeeycat:
11:28 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> ddrace, fng, sometimes other game modes if there're players
11:28 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I see
11:29 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Cool cool
11:29 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I guess we play on different servers I never see u
11:29 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> and kog but after they added accounts I was lazy to make an account so I don't play on [A] servers xd
11:29 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I only play [A]
11:29 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> The others are so useless
11:29 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> those server always have hard maps and am too bad for them xd
11:30 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> They lag a lot and are full of people I rather not play with xd
11:31 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I am tempted to comment „oops“ under your pr
11:31 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Because you know OOP
11:32 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> xd
11:33 <+bridge_> <m0oz_> ı lost my old ddnet account because I reset my computer due to its age. When I downloaded ddnet again, it redirected me to a new account. Will I no longer be able to access my old account?
11:33 <+bridge_> <manikoo> ddnet account :boohoo:
11:33 <+bridge_> <manikoo> we don't have accounts
11:35 <+bridge_> <m0oz_> But logically, it should have been linked to the same Steam account.
11:37 <+bridge_> <Assa> do you mean kog account? Wth are you talking about?
11:37 <+bridge_> <m0oz_> normal ddracenetwork
11:38 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Points are associated with your ingame name, just pick the same name in the settings as before
11:38 <+bridge_> <m0oz_> okey thank you
11:39 <+bridge_> <m0oz_> i understand
11:39 <+bridge_> <Assa> sorry if I sounded too mean, the first coffee still needs to show it's effects 😄
11:41 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> yum coffee
11:41 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> <@498918197475672076>:
11:41 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> He still here or not?
11:42 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> If he is here we need to ban @qxdfox fast for spreading false information
11:42 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> I don't see the user, it says "unknown user"
11:42 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Shiet
11:42 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Rip solly
11:42 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Wat happend to him
11:42 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> @totar: unban solly
11:43 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> it not false
11:43 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> .\_.
11:43 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> let the guy take a break
11:43 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Did he do the Jupstar?
11:44 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> No
11:44 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> It’s my top2 favorite solly
11:44 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Right after solly vevo
11:44 <+bridge_> <Assa> I PMed him, he says he takes a break from ddnet
11:44 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Woah
11:44 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Thats crazy
11:44 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> What happend
11:44 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> burnout
11:45 <+bridge_> <Assa> I think that's reasonable btw ^^ take your break, then come back
11:45 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> No
11:46 <+bridge_> <Assa> @milkeeycat did you check if copying of other physics layers still works?
11:46 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Just looking at the diff this looks sus
11:47 <+bridge_> <Assa> exactly
11:47 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Why does GetTile even exist if we can’t call it
11:47 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> What was its use case?
11:47 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> The front layer thingy?
11:47 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> hooktrough ah I assume
11:48 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> @essigautomat: how do you drink your coffee?
11:48 <+bridge_> <Assa> pulls master, 2000 changes, wtf?
11:48 <+bridge_> <Assa> strong and black, made from beans
11:49 <+ChillerDragon> gebasiert
11:49 <+bridge_> <Assa> *but assa, all coffee is made from beans*, yes but my coffee machine is a bit more expensive and makes the coffee directly from beans, I enter coffee beans, coffee comes out
11:49 <+ChillerDragon> oh your one of those
11:49 <+ChillerDragon> w fancy machine
11:50 <+bridge_> <Assa> I have a serious coffeine addiction - I recently cut of energy drinks from my life
11:50 <+ChillerDragon> addictions are nice
11:50 <+ChillerDragon> i have teeworlds addiction :3
11:50 <+bridge_> <Assa> after ~ 17 years of ddnet/tw I can't deny that either
11:51 <+bridge_> <Assa> I play this game now for over half of my life
11:51 <+ChillerDragon> and longer than the average player age xd
11:52 <+ChillerDragon> when 18+ servers
11:54 <+bridge_> <Assa> never, as long as it's against masterserver rules
11:54 <+bridge_> <Assa> and how would you enforce this, UK style ID checks?
11:57 <+bridge_> <Assa> @chillerdragon the diff of milkycat seems to solve the problem 💀
11:57 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> Other layers should work as before, only ⁨`CLayerGame`⁩ overwrites ⁨`GetTile`⁩
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> ```
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> CTile CLayerGame::GetTile(int x, int y) const
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> {
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>     if(Map()->m_pFrontLayer && Map()->m_pFrontLayer->GetTile(x, y).m_Index == TILE_THROUGH_CUT)
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>     {
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>         return CTile{TILE_THROUGH_CUT};
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>     }
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>     else
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>     {
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>         return CLayerTiles::GetTile(x, y);
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa>     }
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> }
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> ```
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> 
11:59 <+bridge_> <Assa> Do you know why this was added?
12:02 <+bridge_> <Assa> I think nobody does, it looks to me like this copy brush functionality was added twice
12:03 <+bridge_> <kebscs> Probably so you can draw hookthrough at same time
12:05 <+bridge_> <Assa> yes but this is handled in CLayerTiles directly
12:17 <+bridge_> <Assa> I actually don't understand how this works with milkys PR, like are there multiple brushes opened if you copy a gamelayer part with front layer?
12:21 <+bridge_> <kebscs> i think the point is, if you select hookthrough on game layer, it places front hookthrough+game solid
12:21 <+bridge_> <kebscs> but not sure why it breaks so badly on issue's vid
12:21 <+bridge_> <Assa> I think the first "if" condition in his change is wrong or the change is unnecessary
12:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> no this doesn't make sense, SetTile might be wrong
12:26 <+bridge_> <kebscs> i think this gettile is correct
12:30 <+bridge_> <Assa> There must be something else going on, it works for me and only breaks after copy and pasting around a lot
12:31 <+bridge_> <Assa> like the brush beeing not properly cleared or something
12:31 <+bridge_> <kebscs> yea
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> can my std::optional be nullopt and i can use its .value() in comparisons?
17:46 <+ChillerDragon> i guess gotta use value_or() but i would love it to juste be always false smh
17:49 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You can compare empty optionals with other optionals or values directly
18:06 <+bridge_> <Assa> but you need to make sure to compare two empty optionals properly
18:16 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> What about one empty and one not?
18:16 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> If both have no value are they equal?
18:17 <+bridge_> <Assa> they should compare to false
18:17 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I just do a lot of has\_value calls in my code when comparing two optionals seems redundant
18:17 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Ok nice
18:17 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Two optionals are equal if they either both are equal or both contain the same value
18:17 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Two optionals are equal if they either both are empty or both contain the same value
18:17 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Oh hm :/
18:17 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I don’t want it to be true if both are empty
18:18 <+bridge_> <robyt3> An optional and a value are only equal of the optional is non-empty contains that value
18:18 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Oh ok nice
18:18 <+bridge_> <robyt3> An optional and a value are only equal if the optional is non-empty and contains that value
18:18 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> But how do I compare then?
18:18 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> With a call do .value()?
18:18 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> std::nullopt.value() == 2
18:18 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Like this?
18:19 <+bridge_> <robyt3> This doesn't make sense for a constant nullopt
18:19 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Ye
18:19 <+bridge_> <robyt3> ⁨`Optional == 2`⁩
18:19 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Think of it as opt var which could be null
18:19 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Oh so no .value() even
18:19 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I see thanks
18:20 <+bridge_> <robyt3> That should be the same as ⁨`Optional.has_value() && Optional.value() == 2`⁩
18:20 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Perfect
18:20 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Let’s me cleanup my code when I get to touching it again
18:20 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Thank :)
18:20 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Wait ah
18:20 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> But in my case both are optionals xd
18:21 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Ah fak it I think I just keep spamming has\_value everywhere
18:21 <+bridge_> <robyt3> You can do ⁨`Optional1 == Optional2`⁩ provided you want them to be equal also when both are empty
18:21 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Nah I am usually not interested in them matching empty
18:21 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> It means I am missing data so I don’t have a match yet
18:22 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Then I guess ⁨`Optional1.has_value() && Optional2.has_value() && Optional1.value() == Optopnal2.value()`⁩ and put that in a helper function
18:22 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Ye
19:19 <+bridge_> <ceriinas> Can I get ⁨`needs-discussion`⁩ and maybe ⁨`fix-changes-physics`⁩ (if we want it as a warning label) added to that ^
19:20 <+ChillerDragon> @avolicious ono 152.89.254.27:8322 crashed but thb it has gotten better 
19:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> you are only changing client code - where do you change physics? This is not what the label is meant to be for, yes technically you changed server code making the new config variable type available, (which might be pointless), but this still doesn't justify the physics label
19:27 <+bridge_> <Assa> Can you also add an explanation what a "debounce" is? I can only guess what it means
19:31 <+bridge_> <ceriinas> Not a physics change, but it is addressing a bug with hammering not happening when it should. If people see stuff like firing happening when it shouldn't, or offset a tick or something, this would be something to look at. Just wasn't sure how liberally we put that on, idc if it is.
19:32 <+bridge_> <ceriinas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch#Contact_bounce
19:32 <+bridge_> <robyt3> I don't think we should be fixing a hardware/driver issue in the game
19:34 <+bridge_> <ceriinas> What this is addressing is fire commands having different effects based on whether they are for the player or for the dummy. always was triggering it by hand in the linked issue.
19:34 <+bridge_> <inv41idu53rn4m3> If your device firmware isn't handling debouncing correctly you need to fix that first
19:35 <+bridge_> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Oh right this isn't actually denounce is it
19:35 <+bridge_> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Oh right this isn't actually debounce is it
19:36 <+bridge_> <ceriinas> I mean, I can. . . it took me 2s to do that to test in the original issue. That doesn't help anyone else or people who don't know why tf their dummy didn't hammer. I think this is fixing clearly bad client behavior.
20:09 <+bridge_> <boyfrined_fnf_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1467235453378756742/image.png?ex=697fa500&is=697e5380&hm=ba9e2fc6349cccbdf135b5b4080e32469870f1e4fd3b66f45b9a1fb7336445da&
20:09 <+bridge_> <boyfrined_fnf_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1467235453865427026/image.png?ex=697fa500&is=697e5380&hm=3c9238e848d240f799817f29447a212ed9ad2a92f899283e89244526c1e8e254&
20:09 <+bridge_> <boyfrined_fnf_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1467235454251438325/image.png?ex=697fa500&is=697e5380&hm=e20fee4db82e226a659ea9b51c770cd83ce12173077afc45ebf0fd9f40f37a2f&
20:09 <+bridge_> <boyfrined_fnf_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1467235454586847314/image.png?ex=697fa500&is=697e5380&hm=792ce846e2c9972e2fee6cbdbbc1394bd3f7e1a509568a7cdd4af759478dd016&
20:10 <+bridge_> <Assa> @Discord Mod
20:20 <+bridge_> <Assa> @chillerdragon why are the ddnet zcatch server not ddnet-insta servers btw and still on 0.6.5?
22:43 <+bridge_> <Tezcan> aloha, what do the flags in rcon mean? when you enter ⁨`status`⁩
22:43 <+bridge_> <Tezcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1467274124177965136/image.png?ex=697fc903&is=697e7783&hm=ff7af03a9c4c72926a21dcab56a85c1cb4114c4fccce595213f550d7765030ab&
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> Those are the player flags, a bitwise combination of
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> ⁨```cpp
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> enum
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> {
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_PLAYING = 1<<0,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_IN_MENU = 1<<1,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_CHATTING = 1<<2,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_SCOREBOARD = 1<<3,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_AIM = 1<<4,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_SPEC_CAM = 1<<5,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_INPUT_ABSOLUTE = 1<<6,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3>     PLAYERFLAG_INPUT_MANUAL = 1<<7,
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> };
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> ```⁩
22:51 <+bridge_> <robyt3> ⁨`129`⁩ should mean playing+input_manual
22:52 <+bridge_> <Tezcan> ah okay, thank you
23:16 <+bridge_> <Assa> Incredible PR 👍 nice
23:20 <+bridge_> <Assa> I think I should make a small map preview to showcase the envelope trigger tiles to other maintainers, like a 5 second map