00:27 <+bridge_> <_qey> How do I add custom tuning to maps in tune_zones? It says unknown argument value, despite it being a real tune.
00:27 <+bridge_> <_qey> Real tune that I added server-side.
00:28 <+bridge_> <_qey> Is there maybe an option like “Allow unused” for tiles? I really don’t want to redo tune_zones to accommodate my needs in the code, not in the map.
00:29 <+bridge_> <12944qwerty> random question, where are the servers located
00:29 <+bridge_> <12944qwerty> random question, where are the servers located (usa1,2,4)
00:29 <+bridge_> <alw5> https://ddnet.org/status/
00:38 <+bridge_> <_qey> Nvm, I forgot you can do it in the config.
04:05 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> yeahh i always think about this happening
04:05 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> i get weird about building up too much dotfiles
04:06 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> and im like damn, if im ever faced with defaults, can i even work still?
04:06 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> so its weird to customize too much
04:07 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> and by Ashburn, it's Ashburn, VA, and Hillsboro is OR
04:07 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> so west central/mx and east
04:07 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> pretty much all of USA can get good ping now, only weird spot i guess is northern alberta
04:08 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> we used to have CAN but there's no point now that there's east coast, and it was quebec or ontario anyway
05:13 <+bridge_> <kaffeine0> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/7253 (reply to the q about `cl_sub_tick_aiming`)
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> btw if you'd like to convince yourself that it's sufficently random you can check
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> https://brashandplucky.com/2022/08/29/the-avalanche-effect.html
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> and
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> <https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ttVGDV> (need to modify the code to select murmur3)
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> 
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> the murmur3 finalizer is the best 32bit mixer not found by exhaustive search, but the exhaustive search ones have some sketchy questionable RNG test results where it seems optimizing for low bias causes it to fail certain randomness tests, so I just kept murmur3
06:46 <+bridge_> <totar> <https://github.com/skeeto/hash-prospector/issues/28>
08:36 <+bridge_> <louis> i started using micro in terminals its kinda nice
10:16 <+bridge_> <melon> what does micro have that nvim/emacs/helix doesnt?
10:16 <+bridge_> <melon> 
10:16 <+bridge_> <melon> i tried it out and i really really really dont like the default keybinds :kek:
10:58 <+bridge_> <louis> Better default keybinds
10:58 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Xd
10:59 <+bridge_> <louis> at least for me, because i grew up using gui text editors on computers before touching terminal text editors
10:59 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Same here
11:00 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> I still kinda like vim bindings at least the two I know
11:00 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> Imagine if there was ssh as alternative for fifo and Econ. Would that be cool?
12:00 <+bridge_> <sonic (Solly)> its still missing some and doesnt integrate with kitty anyhows
12:01 <+bridge_> <sonic (Solly)> as far as i know doesnt have a pallete for change settings with just searching for them
12:01 <+bridge_> <sonic (Solly)> default them has a bg instead of transparent
12:01 <+bridge_> <sonic (Solly)> and syntax highlighting uses regex and breaks alot
12:25 <+bridge_> <cartmanbrooffical> Privet, anymonya can edit my map?
13:15 <+bridge_> <chillerdragon> @cartmanbrooffical: yes
13:59 <+bridge_> <aegisub> huh I wonder why ddnet no longer gets this error
14:00 <+bridge_> <aegisub> I still get it all the time on my repositories
14:58 <+bridge_> <pilonpl> QUIC mentioned???
14:58 <+bridge_> <pilonpl> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1460996410811089060/image.png?ex=6968f270&is=6967a0f0&hm=47ac6daa2866681599fafafb4e76e8c53c99d0261818a3a1b23a7ee31466c8c4&
15:19 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> ❤️
15:23 <+bridge_> <learath2> eeeeeeeeh
15:24 <+bridge_> <learath2> Won't this require embedding ddnet specific stuff into the maps? I don't quite like the sound of that
15:32 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> Jupstar already did that
15:33 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> sure, we can try to do that 🙂 I'd also like to see an easier map format, probably based on .zip
15:33 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> please tell us where we could improve by breaking "unnecessary backward compatibility"
15:33 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> this is just mythical thinking IMO
15:38 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> local privilige escalation zeroday won't give you that much, I think
15:39 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> no
15:40 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> @learath2 see ^
15:41 <+bridge_> <learath2> I remember `.map.cfg` getting embedded into the map though, no?
15:42 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> GER1(0) has custom DDoS protection. if you're not sending exactly what the official client sends, you might get rejected. you can check wireshark for the differences
15:42 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> only `.cfg`
15:42 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> very nice distinction btw
15:42 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> (/s)
17:02 <+bridge_> <louis> well, mapfile changes would be one of them. ideally, images are not embedded but referred to by some hash, so clients can reuse common image files across multiple maps
17:05 <+bridge_> <louis> you don't necessarily need to break backwards compatibility for this but i think it'd be easier to make features if we did not guarantee backwards compatibility on major versions
17:07 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> are you suggesting releasing a new version where everyone needs to upgrade at the same time?
17:07 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> otherwise you'll necessarily need backward compatibility so not everyone has to upgrade at the same time
17:09 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> if you have a proposal for a new map format, I'd be interested in being involved in it — I could try writing the backward compatibility, too
17:10 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> the backward compatibility "just" has to take a map in the new format and serve it to the client in the old format, right?
17:10 <+bridge_> <louis> i think you could upgrade servers over time so if people want to play on servers with new features, they have to upgrade their client. Then over a few months you close the old servers.
17:10 <+bridge_> <louis> yeah i think ideally the server just converts it in memory on new map load for older clients
17:12 <+bridge_> <louis> hmm, actually this sounds a bit tricky because the client should be able to save maps with full images as well
17:13 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> yes, I think designing the actual map format is a bit trickier than the backward compatibility
17:14 <+bridge_> <louis> ill just open an issue so it doesnt get lost cuz i remember discussing this a while ago too
17:14 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/5165
17:15 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> @l._ouis maybe we could start by finding the requirements for our new map format
17:16 <+bridge_> <louis> yep, there are also some other good requests from mappers like better layer organization and higher numbers on teleports/switches that i'd want considered too
17:16 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> perhaps you could post them to that thread
17:35 <+bridge_> <melon> can't we just adapt to twmap™ which already handles both :monkalaugh:
17:35 <+bridge_> <melon> can't we just adapt to twmap™ which already handles both :monkalaugh: (external and embedded images and parsing of said external images)
17:36 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> yes, it might be possible to use that for backward compatibility
17:37 <+bridge_> <louis> does twmap have its own format?
17:37 <+bridge_> <melon> yes, `.twmap.tar`
17:37 <+bridge_> <louis> i think the trickiness is that you can't share maps from downloadedmaps/, because they won't contain embedded images
17:37 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> yes, but it wasn't designed to be a good map format
17:37 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> perhaps we could merge the maps again for downloadedmaps/
17:39 <+bridge_> <learath2> We probably first want to make sure there is real value to a new map format, because whether you like it or not both the client and the server will have to support old and new maps for a decent while
17:39 <+bridge_> <learath2> Lots of extra code
17:40 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> yes, but for that we have to collect requirements, and I think it's good that @l._ouis is doing that 🙂
17:40 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> I would love to have a format that you can edit more easily in tools other than ddnet
17:41 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> especially for embedded mapres etc. — which is why I think a zip file would be good
17:41 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> like libreoffice etc. also do it
17:44 <+bridge_> <louis> yeah, i was trying to think of requested features that aren't possible to just add onto the current map format, which I guess is higher values for tile flags/values?
17:45 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> separated map/images can also not be added in a backward compatible fashion to the current map format
17:46 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> so might as well change the format if that's done
17:50 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> or changing the image format to PNG
17:50 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> would also be nice
20:04 <+bridge_> <chairn> q3 had this, but it didn't really work well because some map required you to have other maps to be visually correct, but you had no way of knowing which maps you lacked
20:05 <+bridge_> <chairn> q3 as well 🙂
20:29 <+ChillerDragon> @handerfall a moderator of mine asked to ban cactus client from my server because the player indicator is an unfair advantage. Could you disable that on pvp servers?
22:26 <+ChillerDragon> what could i have messed up server side to cause this when updating my client? https://github.com/ddnet-insta/ddnet-insta/issues/518
22:26 <+ChillerDragon> my projectile is only visible like 10 tiles far if i am walking
22:26 <+ChillerDragon> if i stand still its fully visible
22:30 <+bridge_> <valti.> i think u should use python instead of c++, i like it better tbh
22:32 <+ChillerDragon> @Assa looks like you broke the scoreboard on onbgy fng
22:32 <+bridge_> <Assa> I don't think so, I think onbgy broke it
22:33 <+bridge_> <Assa> they probably just need to rebase
22:44 <+bridge_> <Assa> wait what, the snapping of the finish time breaks the scoreboard?
22:52 <+bridge_> <Assa> Chiller: I am investigating, this is a bug
22:53 <+ChillerDragon> @robyt3 thanks for the nostalgia of reminding me about https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/9417 I cracked that together drunk at the airport in bangkok xd
22:53 <+ChillerDragon> @Assa cool thanks, tbh not your fault the reviewers should have tested and caught that so its on me
22:54 <+bridge_> <Assa> approved by 3 people, but this was hard to spot tbh
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> not really
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> its a obvious thing to test
22:55 <+bridge_> <Assa> >     if(GameClient()->m_MapBestTimeSeconds != FinishTime::UNSET)
22:55 <+bridge_> <Assa> This condition seems not to be meet at the noby server, like it's not unset oO
22:55 <+bridge_> <Assa> > 2026-01-14 22:55:46 I dbg: Server sends finish times
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa> ```
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>     else if(MsgId == NETMSGTYPE_SV_RECORD || MsgId == NETMSGTYPE_SV_RECORDLEGACY)
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>     {
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         CNetMsg_Sv_Record *pMsg = static_cast<CNetMsg_Sv_Record *>(pRawMsg);
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         dbg_msg("dbg", "Server sends finish times");
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         if(pMsg->m_ServerTimeBest > 0)
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         {
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>             m_MapBestTimeSeconds = pMsg->m_ServerTimeBest / 100;
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>             m_MapBestTimeMillis = (pMsg->m_ServerTimeBest % 100) * 10;
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         }
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         else if(m_MapBestTimeSeconds == FinishTime::UNSET)
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         {
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>             m_MapBestTimeSeconds = FinishTime::NOT_FINISHED_MILLIS;
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>             m_MapBestTimeMillis = 0;
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>         }
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa>     }
22:56 <+bridge_> <Assa> ```
22:57 <+bridge_> <Assa> 
22:57 <+bridge_> <Assa> Wtf is the mod doing
22:57 <+bridge_> <Assa> why is it sending record times, wdym 🙁
22:57 <+ChillerDragon> i think its a common thing for a ddnet server
22:58 <+bridge_> <Assa> it sends a finish time of 0
22:58 <+bridge_> <Assa> I'll add an extra check
22:58 <+ChillerDragon> sounds good
22:59 <+ChillerDragon> where did projectile rendering even change??
22:59 <+ChillerDragon> bruv
22:59 <+ChillerDragon> i hate that bug so much already
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> i have enough pain with the removed reset file and its bugs
23:00 <+bridge_> <Assa> > i hate that bug so much already
23:00 <+bridge_> <Assa> I am feeling that on another level
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> maintaining a bug free ddnet pvp mode is becoming more and more painful
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> that was not the goal
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> at al
23:01 <+ChillerDragon> this shit was meant to be a side project for 2 weeks
23:01 <+bridge_> <Assa> what should I check for, for < 0 @chillerdragon  ?
23:01 <+bridge_> <Assa> checking the old code
23:02 <+bridge_> <Assa> the old code just always assumes > 0, maybe I can just remove the else case
23:05 <+bridge_> <Assa> >     MsgLegacy.m_PlayerTimeBest = Msg.m_PlayerTimeBest = round_to_int(Score()->PlayerData(ClientId)->m_BestTime.value_or(0.0f) * 100.0f);
23:05 <+bridge_> <Assa> 
23:05 <+bridge_> <Assa> I see why it always sends 0
23:11 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> basically a bug, but it hasn't surfaced so far because the ddnet client ignored it
23:11 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> annoying
23:16 <+bridge_> <Assa> hmm I wonder if I should follow up with a server fix and just not send this message if it doesn't have a value
23:16 <+bridge_> <Assa> do I need to fix legacy network code 🤔
23:19 <+bridge_> <Assa> Is there ever a reason, a server undo-s the map best time? Because the client would not undo the value once it's set
23:20 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> record got deleted perhaps? probably needs no support in the legacy message
23:21 <+bridge_> <Assa> The new message supports it already :happy:
23:21 <+bridge_> <Assa> by design
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> @heinrich5991 
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> ```
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa>         else
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa>         {
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa>             // lots of mods (including pvp mods) send zero indicating no best time
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa>         }
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> ```
23:26 <+bridge_> <Assa> You mean like this? Are you happy with the text?
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> ```
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> else
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> {
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991>     // some PvP mods based on DDNet accidentally send a best time of 0, despite having no finished races
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> }
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> ```
23:30 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> yea, something like that
23:30 <+bridge_> <Assa> I am just bad at writing stuff like this 😆 thank you
23:32 <+bridge_> <Assa> I guess if I'd fork ddnet and do a mod, I also wouldn't remove this random netmessage tbh
23:33 <+bridge_> <Assa> 🙈
23:34 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> oh, you should probably keep the condition
23:34 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> `else if(m_MapBestTimeSeconds == FinishTime::UNSET)`
23:35 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> oops
23:35 <+ChillerDragon> woah
23:35 <+ChillerDragon> if i rm -rf my build dir
23:35 <+ChillerDragon> and recompile
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> i get a sha256sum match on the binary
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> i thought compilers are random xd
23:36 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> compilers are generally deterministic
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> makes sense i guess
23:36 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> nondeterministic stuff gets introduced by other parts of the build process
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> its just so many other things like compiler versions and dependencies 
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> ye i see
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> fair
23:36 <+bridge_> <Assa> builds are often not (i.e. adding the current time to the compiled binary)
23:37 <+ChillerDragon> what the shitfuck
23:37 <+ChillerDragon> is that a bug in my client now or what
23:37 <+ChillerDragon> I REPRODUCED IT ON DDNET MASTER 5 MINUTRES AGO
23:37 <+ChillerDragon> I HATE PROGRAMINNG
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> u cant make that shit up
23:38 <+bridge_> <Assa> take a break, get a tea chiller 🙂
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> i managed to reproduce on local server with fresh ddnet client built from source
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> i reproduced every possible combination
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> now only one is bugged
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> my custom client on a online server
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> not local server
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> ONLY ONLINE?
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> why
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> nah fak this
23:38 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> ping perhaps
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> i sleep
23:39 <+ChillerDragon> ye perhaps
23:39 <+bridge_> <heinrich5991> good night 🙂
23:39 <+bridge_> <Assa> good night ^^
23:39 <+bridge_> <Assa> meh, reading comprehension 0