00:31 <+bridge_> <0xdeen> @avolicious or anyone else on macOS: Can you check if https://ddnet.org/downloads/DDNet-signed-macos.dmg works for you without giving it extra permissions?
00:34 <+bridge_> <avolicious> 1 sec
00:36 <+bridge_> <avolicious> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1459692516189143091/image.png?ex=69643417&is=6962e297&hm=5710090c835c8df5eb39775e7da34768d68404589ddb0eb8a666b6b960499bc5&
04:17 <+bridge_> <blazu da melon> looks like ddstats is down
04:17 <+bridge_> <blazu da melon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1459748088691429640/image.png?ex=696467d9&is=69631659&hm=cea5e97a561b914782c2ad08e72053eed93d5617e000492bce2f6359f6b83b03&
04:18 <+furo> Will be up in 5 minutes, hopefully. Router rebooting.
04:20 <+bridge_> <blazu da melon> oh okay
06:43 <+bridge_> <chinesemelon> https://github.com/tailwindlabs/tailwindcss.com/pull/2388#issuecomment-3717222957
06:45 <+bridge_> <totar> they got a bunch of sponsors from AI companies after this went viral
06:45 <+bridge_> <totar> idk for how much
06:55 <+bridge_> <chinesemelon> <a:blobcat_party:1181541718710026240>
07:13 <+bridge_> <louis> hahaha good github drama
07:21 <+bridge_> <teero777> yo, are we going to move to a proper vote menu some time? right now it's so bad xd
07:21 <+bridge_> <teero777> there is no sorting and no proper filtering
07:22 <+bridge_> <teero777> ddnet still feels like a mod of teeworlds instead of a game.
07:24 <+bridge_> <remakepower> See also https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/issues/2765
07:25 <+bridge_> <teero777> ofc this is the first comment and in the end nothing got done xd
07:25 <+bridge_> <teero777> okay i give up
07:25 <+bridge_> <teero777> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1459795248099233957/image0.png?ex=696493c4&is=69634244&hm=dc7b8514580a6ad7b284eba7d8672a7b2b5dbf93ebf0c620b21f5ee824d3c58c&
07:25 <+bridge_> <remakepower> Yeah, nothing gets done.
07:29 <+bridge_> <remakepower> I always feel that DDNet places more emphasis on backcompat than Teeworlds.
07:29 <+bridge_> <remakepower> D:
07:29 <+bridge_> <teero777> ddnet places for emphasis on backcompat than the game itself
07:30 <+bridge_> <teero777> instead of making the game better, the focus lies on the code architecture
07:30 <+bridge_> <teero777> instead of making the game better, the focus lies on the code architecture and design
07:36 <+bridge_> <teero777> this will definitely kill the game in the long run, as nothing major changes
07:38 <+bridge_> <remakepower> Teeworlds 0.7 did major changes. And then we knows what happened. Though that's not only because of changes.
07:41 <+bridge_> <teero777> 0.7 did a lot of things wrong and was prematurely released in my opinion. Also 0.7 is a vanilla client, most of the community switched to the ddrace gamemode which the 0.7 teeworlds client isn't meant for at all, no wonder that nobody is using it.
07:44 <+bridge_> <remakepower> 0.7 development takes half of teeworlds's life.
07:46 <+bridge_> <remakepower> (2012 - 2018 - ?)
08:55 <+bridge_> <louis> gorp: i aint gonna be in the kitchen on a normal basis
08:57 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> is that quote me or matrix mention me
08:58 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> hands u a spatula
08:58 <+bridge_> <louis> Matrix mention
08:58 <+bridge_> <louis> ts game not fun to code for
08:58 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> it probably follows a trend line of how fun the game is to play also :D
08:59 <+bridge_> <louis> the most rewarding thing u can do in this game is make maps
08:59 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> agreed
08:59 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> (i might actually make real maps soon)
08:59 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> my old hard drive is dead though so i lost a ton of maps
08:59 <+bridge_> <louis> actually i was talking to the yaccre earlier td and i agree with ur idea a long time ago like a public map maker type deal instead of the current testing setup
09:00 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> wait what
09:00 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> idea
09:00 <+bridge_> <louis> if i could start a tw net from the ground up thats what i'd do
09:00 <+bridge_> <louis> Just like have all maps public similar to how osu, gd does it
09:00 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> oh yeah and then certain ones are rated
09:00 <+bridge_> <louis> and u can choose to rate some as official
09:01 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> encourages people to play testing maps
09:01 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> (or, find single parts of abandoned maps that are still worth playing, or finishing)
09:02 <+bridge_> <louis> I'd also rework the map file structure lol
09:02 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> i think in general there will always be a problem with trying to guess what people will and wont like
09:02 <+bridge_> <louis> that's probably one of the areas with most potential improvement in current ddnet
09:02 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> and i know its not exactly guesswork but hell you could have a legit terrible map that ends up being the new blocker hangout for no reason
09:03 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> people will like what they like
09:05 <+bridge_> <louis> well this is fine
09:06 <+bridge_> <louis> Some ppl like to focus on improving architecture or whatever
09:06 <+bridge_> <louis> The issue is theres no direction and no courage to break all the unnecessary backwards compatibility
09:06 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> usually improving the architecture anyway should be aimed at less of that in the future?
09:06 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> i dont see how that's a problem
09:08 <+bridge_> <louis> I dont even know why we even consider backwards compatibility, tbh
09:08 <+bridge_> <louis> actually what other game does ts
09:09 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> i think a lot of the mods/old clients that would benefit from this have really died hard
09:09 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> so it's like a weird position to keep having
09:09 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> it's only rly like, begging kog to merge upstream
09:09 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> we just need to osu!lazer ddnet
09:10 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> some day some year, it should happen
09:12 <+bridge_> <louis> its ddnetrs and its just not there yet
09:12 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> ya, i was afraid u would say that
09:12 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> gg me ever contributing
09:15 <+bridge_> <louis> idk c++ well but contributing to ddnet isnt too difficult, its just how much time u willing to put down
09:16 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> gorp to-do list is huge
09:24 <+bridge_> <0xdeen> I assume that means it works.
09:25 <+bridge_> <0xdeen> that would be cool. If you add a new netmsg etc it‘s probably fine. you should plan what it should support and look like and discuss with dev team first
09:27 <+bridge_> <0xdeen> we mostly need backcompat because we have some players who love to stay on older versions of DDNet itself. But it‘s fine to develop new features which won‘t work for them
10:47 <+bridge_> <totar> how many of them actually love to stay on older versions or just haven't bothered to update because of some extremely minor inconvenience because the client from 2 years ago is still functionally the same in terms of gameplay features?
10:47 <+bridge_> <totar> how many of them actually love to stay on older versions or just haven't bothered to update because of some extremely minor inconvenience since the client from 2 years ago is still functionally the same in terms of gameplay features?
10:49 <+bridge_> <totar> after thinking about it for a little while I've realized we're stuck in a pretty awful position
10:52 <+bridge_> <totar> the backward compatibility requirement is useful because our codebase is so terrible for mods. KoG completely scraps the entire SQL system in favor of something else, which any sane server with non-trivial new features should do. but that makes merging upstream ddnet changes unreasonably difficult. So we have to have to allow mixing and client/server version.
10:56 <+bridge_> <totar> I'm not even sure the extent to which ddnet-rs fixes this because mods will still need to get the codebase for various things, and honestly game devs seem to be moving away from rust. Another issue is that the physics is so unnecessarily complicated and fragile that anyone making a parallel implementation of the client or server from scratch has to overcome this massive hurdle before you can ever start. This makes something like osu!lazer for ddnet on
10:58 <+bridge_> <totar> but if you try to simplify the physics then you're just making a totally new game, which no one will play. the gameplay in osu! doesn't rely at all on the precise behavior of the code, although they did spend a lot of effort getting it to feel as close as possible to the original game.
10:59 <+bridge_> <louis> u can cut away at a lot imo (at least a lot of tile behavior)
10:59 <+bridge_> <louis> i doubt Fixing some crazy stuff like strong/weak is ever gonna feel correct though
11:00 <+bridge_> <totar> there's a lot of stuff that I think basically only teero has noticed in his new physics. We do tee collision multiple times for like literally no reason, it's looks visually the exact same if you only do it once but we can't touch it
11:02 <+bridge_> <totar> the weapon switching code is hilariously terrible, especially with ninja
11:02 <+bridge_> <louis> yea i found some silly decisions just while making target switches, i suspect nobody wanted to touch or read that code for years for some reasons
11:03 <+bridge_> <totar> but if you want a new server or client there's so many stupid behaviors that you just need to copy 1:1, it's actually impossible to have a clean *looking* implementation of the physics
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> every now and then when i think i found a good task for a llm i try it out again and so many times its disappointing so that i dont spend longer than 10s in the chat xd
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> am i doing it wrong?
11:09 <+bridge_> <totar> which llm do you use
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> duck.ai
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.445a8206-9418-4bae-b831-982e28d73db3.png
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> check this out xd
11:10 <+bridge_> <totar> gpt-4o-mini .-.
11:10 <+ChillerDragon> so thats the issue?
11:10 <+ChillerDragon> i see
11:12 <+ChillerDragon> hellhound is weird name anyways idk
11:12 <+bridge_> <totar> https://aider.chat/docs/leaderboards/
11:12 <+ChillerDragon> @milkeeycat send good name for my badass proprietary antibot module
11:12 <+bridge_> <aegisub> the funniest part here was the guy linking HIS TIKTOK in the thread
11:13 <+ChillerDragon> @totar $$$
11:13 <+bridge_> <totar> chillerdragon: gpt-4o-mini is *literally* the worst model on the leaderboard. It gets 3.6% questions correct, gpt-5.2-high gets 88% correct
11:13 <+bridge_> <aegisub> I've seen a lot of memeable github threads before but that was a new one
11:13 <+bridge_> <totar> it's actually last place, they don't list any worse ones xd
11:13 <+ChillerDragon> lmao the worst xd
11:14 <+ChillerDragon> i will keep using only that one tho
11:14 <+ChillerDragon> because duckduckgo offers it without account or cookie banner 
11:14 <+ChillerDragon> i prefer accessible over useful :D i guess i have to wait until the last in the leaderboard becomes better
11:15 <+bridge_> <louis> hahaha
11:15 <+bridge_> <louis> use codex 5.1 max
11:15 <+bridge_> <louis> or if ur mr moneybags, claude opus
11:16 <+ChillerDragon> i am not planning to pay or sign up anywhere
11:16 <+ChillerDragon> i want something publicly and anonymously accessible
11:16 <+bridge_> <totar> how much ram do you have
11:16 <+ChillerDragon> 32gb
11:16 <+bridge_> <totar> you can get much better local models
11:16 <+ChillerDragon> u think even the llama is better?
11:16 <+bridge_> <totar> WAY better
11:16 <+ChillerDragon> i ran llama before
11:16 <+bridge_> <totar> but not llama
11:16 <+ChillerDragon> it shit xd
11:17 <+bridge_> <totar> use qwen or something
11:17 <+ChillerDragon> hmkay
11:17 <+bridge_> <totar> use the biggest size you can
11:17 <+ChillerDragon> not sure if its worth the effort and the risk of running such nasty code i can not really audit on my machine
11:17 <+bridge_> <louis> if u not using non open then its gonna be mid
11:17 <+ChillerDragon> just to generate hellhound ascii
11:17 <+bridge_> <louis> it is what it is
11:18 <+ChillerDragon> i actually find selfhosting more sketchy
11:18 <+bridge_> <totar> Qwen3-Coder can run on your CPU and might be barely useful
11:18 <+ChillerDragon> i can estimate the risk of visiting a website better than running software on my machine
11:18 <+bridge_> <milkeeycat> chillerdragon: I've send you the full list of names, I don't have more
11:18 <+ChillerDragon> oh ._.
11:19 <+bridge_> <louis> Surely it can be segmented enough to where you can have some core module that has all the jank tee v tee collision, then a cleaner section that can be modded more easily
11:19 <+bridge_> <totar> sure but a lot of stuff will be in the jank module
11:20 <+bridge_> <totar> it could be better though
11:20 <+bridge_> <louis> Wdym not audit
11:20 <+bridge_> <totar> chillerdragon: there a dozens of sites with free AIs better than 4o-mini
11:20 <+bridge_> <totar> no cookie banners
11:21 <+bridge_> <totar> https://chat.qwen.ai/
11:49 <+bridge_> <chinesemelon> qwen moment
11:52 <+ChillerDragon> cool thanks @totar
11:52 <+ChillerDragon> can anyone pls build a c++ linker that shows helpful error messages
11:52 <+ChillerDragon> `undefined reference to vtable`
11:52 <+ChillerDragon> ...
11:53 <+ChillerDragon> just tell me "missing method with name xyz"
11:55 <+ChillerDragon> qwen3-max hellhound be like xd http://paste.pr0.tips/Opt
11:55 <+bridge_> <melon> THICC
11:55 <+bridge_> <melon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1459863371665899624/image.png?ex=6964d336&is=696381b6&hm=544c5ff22b42e410b99fb89bed9f75be25f849e9af02492f45ef73476e46d3d5&
11:56 <+ChillerDragon> xd
12:12 <+bridge_> <melon> ChillerDragon:
12:12 <+bridge_> <melon> this is gptee's hellhound
12:12 <+bridge_> <melon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1459867506637275167/image.png?ex=6964d710&is=69638590&hm=656d7958a983e58d3ee0c12d2b63bbf2554c46b312c6dabb4ac40171c1369f3a&
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> not quite what im looking for xd
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> but better
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> what is the abstract class for in the job system?
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/b081dd24a50bc73f6c3df8cd6d6075d05a140c12/src/game/client/components/skins.h#L42-L54
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> what purpose does CAbstractSkinLoadJob have
12:30 <+bridge_> <robyt3> So that `std::shared_ptr<CAbstractSkinLoadJob> m_pLoadJob` can refer to either a file-load or a download job
12:33 <+ChillerDragon> ah okay good i somehow thought it was a general job system requirement
12:34 <+ChillerDragon> so far i just always added a abstract class and today it caused some problems for me so i merged it and it seemingly still worked
12:34 <+ChillerDragon> thanks for clarifying that this was just a specific use case so my code should be fine :) @robyt3
13:06 <+bridge_> <chinesemelon> https://x.com/__alula/status/2010071389777342538?s=20
13:27 <+bridge_> <learath2> The second he took anger management classes it was joever
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> ew x link
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> i learned about this today https://xcancel.com/__alula/status/2010071389777342538
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> written in nim btw
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> dennis mentioned
16:04 <+bridge_> <vappy19> Broooo i click this chat and thats what i see
18:54 <+bridge_> <teero777> Chillerdragon: use https://lmarena.ai/
19:25 <+bridge_> <byfox> It's a good website :)
20:15 <+bridge_> <blazu da melon> I also used DejaVu Sans Mono (Bold) for one of the chat concepts but... :justatest: ehhh I guess this could be replaced by the Book one
20:15 <+bridge_> <blazu da melon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1419337795125772288/image.png?ex=69650cd4&is=6963bb54&hm=e543f280c2f73d64d599e8714bd0ad9b2c2fae9817d6b0eafe16d939624d66b0&
20:37 <+bridge_> <NyrrCly> Is there a formula for converting teeworlds color code to rgba/rgb/hsl?
20:38 <+bridge_> <NyrrCly> :nouis:
20:40 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> color configs output hsl and rgb
20:40 <+bridge_> <qxdfox> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1459995374369640630/image.png?ex=69654e26&is=6963fca6&hm=bd1403fb4923a2ba35116b561179f0a69b094e9f13759b0e7c46a0c7a9a51454&
22:10 <+ChillerDragon> @teero777 This website uses cookies
22:10 <+ChillerDragon> clicking "Manage Cookies" literally does nothing
22:11 <+bridge_> <teero777> damn then use tor or a vpn
22:11 <+bridge_> <teero777> who cares
22:11 <+ChillerDragon> its bad ux
22:11 <+bridge_> <teero777> ????
22:11 <+ChillerDragon> to have a popup like that
22:11 <+ChillerDragon> its ugly
22:11 <+bridge_> <teero777> damn you straight up refusing only solutions just because the ux is bad
22:11 <+ChillerDragon> followed up by another tos popup
22:11 <+bridge_> <teero777> damn you straight up refusing the only good solution just because the ux is bad
22:12 <+bridge_> <teero777> be happy that it doesnt force accounts
22:12 <+ChillerDragon> well if we keep tolerating such bs they will keep adding it
22:12 <+ChillerDragon> yea thats good 
22:12 <+bridge_> <teero777> and what are you gonna do about it?
22:12 <+bridge_> <teero777> they already have 300k users they dont give a shit about your opinion
22:12 <+ChillerDragon> probably gonna keep using duck.ai xd or the one teero recommended
22:12 <+bridge_> <teero777> i am teero
22:12 <+ChillerDragon> tater
22:12 <+ChillerDragon> i keep confusing u two smh 
22:12 <+ChillerDragon> sorry xd
22:12 <+bridge_> <teero777> hes my alt dw
22:13 <+bridge_> <teero777> duck ai is the worst you can use xd
22:13 <+bridge_> <teero777> qwen is not that good its okay
22:14 <+ChillerDragon> lmarena is mostly loading for me xd
22:14 <+ChillerDragon> at least the others were fast
22:14 <+ChillerDragon> but ye it looks fancy
22:14 <+ChillerDragon> will try to keep it in mind in case i need a stronger llm one day
22:35 <+bridge_> <hok1rn> тут есть русские?
22:35 <+bridge_> <hok1rn> Are there any Russians here or is everyone English? In short, who's really good at making confs? I'm on my phone, I need it for my phone.
23:16 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> ChillerDragon: for duck.ai I used Mistral which seemed to be the best FOSS one there
23:16 <+bridge_> <gorp_tw> maybe qwen is better locally