00:21 < bridge> someone merge? :owo: 00:21 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/9628/ 00:29 < bridge> working on this agien and trying to recreate a old bug using this but the script just errors now with a parcing error. "AMLException: bad indentation of a mapping entry in "map_v4.ksy" (33:61) 00:29 < bridge> 00:29 < bridge> 30 | ... 00:29 < bridge> 31 | ... 00:29 < bridge> 32 | ... 00:29 < bridge> 33 | ... m_data - 1 ? header.data_size : data_offsets[_index + 1]) - d 00:29 < bridge> -----------------------------------------^ 00:29 < bridge> 34 | ... 00:29 < bridge> 35 | ... " not sure how to fix it 00:37 < bridge> working on this agien and trying to recreate a old bug using this but the script just errors now with a parcing error. "YAMLException: bad indentation of a mapping entry in "map_v4.ksy" (33:61) 00:37 < bridge> 00:37 < bridge> 30 | ... 00:37 < bridge> 31 | ... 00:37 < bridge> 32 | ... 00:37 < bridge> 33 | ... m_data - 1 ? header.data_size : data_offsets[_index + 1]) - d 00:37 < bridge> -----------------------------------------^ 00:37 < bridge> 34 | ... 00:37 < bridge> 35 | ... " not sure how to fix it 07:14 < bridge> To this day idk where this came from and I hope to never know 08:54 < ws-client1> **** yo furo what happend to you btw? 08:55 < ws-client1> **** why did you somewhat disappear 08:58 < bridge> man its 08:58 < bridge> seperate 08:58 < bridge> not separate 08:58 < bridge> i cant even force myself to pronounce it like its spelt 08:58 < bridge> bad language 08:58 < bridge> plz submit pr to english 08:58 < bridge> plz submit pr upstream to english 08:59 < bridge> you can use both afaik 08:59 < bridge> (seperate is incorrect) 08:59 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430088149035388978/image.png?ex=68f880e0&is=68f72f60&hm=b0ba0b0ec902d65b6d46b87c758edff71fbceefad4a5d4e3fe7b4e9c2dbae144& 09:04 < bridge> the German pronunciation is at fault here XD 09:04 < bridge> 09:04 < bridge> Separat 09:10 < bridge> you also screw up independent sometimes 09:11 < bridge> indepedentn 09:11 < bridge> indepedennt 09:11 < bridge> 3 more edits and you got it solly! 09:11 < bridge> indepedent 09:11 < bridge> independant 09:11 < bridge> those were typos 09:11 < bridge> not spleling mistakies 09:11 < bridge> veru big iferenrnece 09:11 < bridge> veru big dfiferenrnece 09:14 < bridge> :frogbonk: 09:14 < bridge> @chillerdragon have u ever won a duel against hein 09:14 < bridge> I will forever remember chiller telling Heinrich he's a "madafaka" for creating a merge conflict with his PR :nouis: 09:22 < bridge> The letter is silent :kek: 09:22 < bridge> NOOOO 09:22 < bridge> well depends who u are 09:22 < bridge> sep-er-ut 09:23 < bridge> seprit 09:23 < bridge> sep er it 09:23 < bridge> Sep-ret 09:24 < bridge> depends on ur tendency to portmenteau or anunsiate 09:24 < bridge> portmanteau 09:24 < bridge> Ah there are different spellings for verb and adjective πŸ’€ 09:24 < bridge> Even though written same 09:24 < bridge> oh 09:24 < bridge> sep er ate is the verb 09:25 < bridge> sep er it and sep ret are both fine forms for the adjective 09:25 < bridge> https://ipa-reader.com/ 09:25 < bridge> `ˈsΙ›p.Ι™.rΙ™t` 09:25 < bridge> i prounce it like that 09:25 < bridge> the leskoff ipa reader is way better 09:25 < bridge> i pressume kebs rounuces it like `ˈsΙ›p.rΙ™t` 09:25 < bridge> this is too robotic 09:25 < bridge> it works Β―\_(ツ)_/Β― 09:25 < bridge> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/separate 09:25 < bridge> I thought adjective only 09:26 < bridge> oh yeah there are... 09:26 < bridge> two 09:26 < bridge> ways 09:26 < bridge> dats wat im sayin 09:26 < bridge> we were all talking about the adjective htough 09:26 < bridge> we were all talking about the adjective though 09:26 < bridge> WHAAA 09:27 < bridge> hcirnieh 09:27 < bridge> oh this was one of the low info closes 09:27 < bridge> yeah this would be nice for infclass and fng 09:27 < bridge> yeah this would be nice for infclass, fng and fddrace 09:27 < bridge> which would no longer require special support 09:28 < bridge> being able to override them still is needed 09:28 < bridge> my prounciation is not listed 09:29 < bridge> then it's wrong 09:29 < bridge> maybe 09:29 < bridge> theres not.. really wrong pronunciations 09:29 < bridge> english is pretty dynamic 09:29 < bridge> ive never been questioned on my prouncination of seperate 09:29 < bridge> they speak it in localized regions all across the globe and even within said regions it differs a lot 09:29 < bridge> none of it is invalid 09:29 < bridge> just different 09:30 < bridge> clearly they are speaking it and communicating successfully 09:33 < bridge> Cases were the Chinese dictionaries get changed so the previously common mistakes get adopted 09:33 < bridge> And the previous correct ones are now wrong 09:34 < bridge> yeah i mean 09:34 < bridge> old english is GONE 09:34 < bridge> used to be the same language 09:35 < bridge> thanks for the report. weird that this pops up now, I suppose they changed their yaml parser or smth. I'll look into a fix 09:35 < bridge> thanks so much! 09:35 < bridge> yea i think so 09:35 < bridge> as i know it used to work 10:00 < ws-client1> **** LMAO 10:00 < ws-client1> **** https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/9806#issuecomment-3425219703 10:00 < ws-client1> **** xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxD 10:01 < ws-client1> **** this pr is the biggest mess of entire ddnet history 10:04 < ws-client1> **** @Solly (bun bun) i dont think so. But its unbalanced he has green name. So even if my opinions are better than his (like they mostly are) he just makes use of his more equal than others maintainer powers 10:04 < bridge> darn 10:05 < bridge> no way its 14 lines 10:05 < bridge> @chillerdragon i can merge 8341 into tclient ^~^ 10:05 < bridge> i like it, most people wont notice 10:06 < bridge> do you get the freeze time in non insta fng? 10:07 < bridge> might be an advantage 10:07 < bridge> but i do like the idea that you could read the snowflake count 10:07 < bridge> makes unfreeze standofs less luck based 10:07 < ws-client1> **** #8341 10:07 < bridge> (as to whether you want to try holding laser or suiside) 10:07 < ws-client1> **** omg where chilerbot 10:07 < bridge> #8341 10:07 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/8341 10:07 < ws-client1> **** ty 10:08 < ws-client1> **** i dont use tclient virus so idc 10:08 < ws-client1> **** but i would like to have it in chilerbot 10:08 < ws-client1> **** but cba to maintain the diff 10:08 < ws-client1> **** can i hire you as merge monkey? 10:09 < bridge> There are so many fngs some send the ddrace data others only stars 10:10 < bridge> right 10:10 < bridge> well idrc about the tiny amount of cheat it adds 10:10 < bridge> @chillerdragon hire? money? omagawd? 10:16 < ws-client1> **** sexual favors 10:16 < ws-client1> **** i broke 10:16 < ws-client1> **** i can send you my OF 10:16 < ws-client1> **** @Solly (bun bun) wdym cheat? 10:16 < ws-client1> **** it adds no cheat 10:17 < ws-client1> **** it uses the same information as the freeze bar. If the player has freeze bars on thats more precise. If the server thinks thats a cheat it can turn it off 10:17 < ws-client1> **** turning it off is not sending the freeze data so the snow flake timer will also not kick in 10:18 < bridge> that works 10:18 < bridge> people dont get freezebar/stars on other team normally 10:18 < ws-client1> **** ye 10:19 < ws-client1> **** then the snow flakes will stay random too 10:24 < bridge> chiller OF? link pls 10:24 < bridge> @davidlovesmath the kaitai fixes are in https://github.com/heinrich5991/libtw2/pull/128 10:25 < bridge> thanks so much! 10:25 < ws-client1> **** only souly gets it because its his payment for solving my git conflicts 10:25 < ws-client1> **** wat u hacking on @davidlovesmath 10:25 < bridge> also the data file one also is broken 10:26 < bridge> nvm you also fixed that one lol 10:26 < bridge> map parcer. gonna see if a old buffer overflow is still there 10:26 < bridge> tomarow 10:27 < ws-client1> **** wowo real hacker 10:28 < ws-client1> **** if you find a client to server 0d rce go send it to chillerdragon@gmail.com who will fix it responsibly 10:31 < bridge> i feel like even a server to client one would be very bad 10:48 < ws-client1> **** true true 10:48 < ws-client1> **** would be nice for antibot :) 10:48 < ws-client1> **** just scan the users devices, valorant style 10:49 < ws-client1> **** or how lerato stated once it would be useful to send custom prediction code to the clients xd 10:50 < ws-client1> **** basically a good modding api without the performance impact of webassembly 12:21 < bridge> :bruhh: 12:44 < bridge> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder-head-sector 12:44 < bridge> old disks required 3d geometry kek 12:44 < bridge> like playng a game 12:44 < bridge> to find the data 13:04 < bridge> 3d is cool 15:05 < bridge> @chillerdragon im waiting for my of payment 15:26 < bridge> @chillerdragon i count ur duel as won 15:27 < bridge> time for a major update. 15:32 < bridge> shit 15:50 < bridge> in order not to break backwards compatibility, you can introduce a second command that does the same, just called correctly. 15:51 < bridge> :crycat: :crycat: :crycat: 16:05 < bridge> @jupeyy_keks https://crates.io/crates/arc-swap 16:05 < bridge> This provides something similar to what RwLock> is or what Atomic> would be if it existed, optimized for read-mostly write-seldom scenarios, with consistent performance characteristics. 16:05 < bridge> Nice crate right? 16:05 < bridge> ye 16:05 < bridge> I use it in ddnet-rs 16:05 < bridge> πŸ˜‰ 16:05 < bridge> :brownbear: 17:15 < bridge> Which duel xd 17:43 < bridge> the hein one 18:04 < bridge> Which one I PvP Heinrich in like 62 issues and PRs I haven’t won any .\_. @sollybunny 18:04 < bridge> chiller 18:05 < bridge> you the best vibe maintainer.. always good vibes 18:05 < bridge> you winner of my heart, all of the homo 18:05 < bridge> uuuh, i got a problem, after re-install my OS i got an issue with generated data 18:05 < bridge> the data itself is generated but i'm still having an error which doesn't let me to build the client properly (i didn't change cmake except adding 1 external lib) 18:05 < bridge> 18:05 < bridge> ``` 18:05 < bridge> /home/sta/soft/DDNetPulse/src/engine/client/client.cpp:51:10: fatal error: game/generated/client_data.h: No such file or directory 18:05 < bridge> 51 | #include 18:05 < bridge> | ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 18:05 < bridge> ``` 18:05 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430225545517469777/image.png?ex=68f900d6&is=68f7af56&hm=f3a6c77617397b5b069c0d250d852f3c24e8930b5a7a4e9b8075c4e22996413e& 18:06 < bridge> try and see if ddnet compiles 18:06 < bridge> if yes, this is a you issue, if no, we can still look further 18:06 < bridge> try to remove `build` dir and recompile 😬 18:07 < bridge> want me to say that i didn't tried it before? 18:09 < bridge> Isn't this related to https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/10789 18:13 < bridge> omg you're so right 18:13 < bridge> thank you so much i love u 18:26 < bridge> Good vibes only! 18:26 < bridge> Thanks @jupeyy_keks so cute of you to say tha 18:30 < bridge> Woah did tha really send twice? 18:31 < ws-client1> **** Oh only on matrix but two different clients are affected xd 18:43 < bridge> 1. hi 18:43 < bridge> 3. hi 18:43 < bridge> xDD 18:43 < bridge> worst discord feature ever 18:43 < bridge> 1. hi 18:43 < bridge> 4. hi 18:43 < bridge> this has to be a troll 18:44 < bridge> 1. hi 18:44 < bridge> 5. hi 18:44 < bridge> 1. hi 18:44 < bridge> 500. hi 18:44 < bridge> chiller what do you see? 21:24 < bridge> wtaf is heinrich's problem? every single action i see him take as a maintainer is to reverse what somebody else did 21:26 < bridge> πŸ’€ 21:39 < bridge> we need to let him do as he wants maybe 21:47 < bridge> I see nothing special hop on https://chat.zillyhuhn.com jopsi it’s same in matrix and irc I think 21:47 < bridge> The matrix bridge stopped sending my images to discord 21:47 < bridge> So I can’t show on mobile 22:15 < bridge> I noticed that 22:15 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/11026 22:15 < bridge> haven't been handled for now 22:16 < bridge> This is the most friendly issue (easy to fix) I've seen for now 22:19 < bridge> super/invincible is just broken 22:20 < bridge> and theyre just a rare testing commands so devs dont put it high up in the priority list 22:20 < bridge> #9117 22:20 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/9117 22:20 < bridge> yea removing super would be first step 22:34 < bridge> ok well it def still segfaults but oddly enough asan doesnt seem to be working lol. time to deleate the cach 22:37 < bridge> LOL also just let servers install malware too 22:39 < bridge> also the one heap based overflow in this game is the biggest vunerability ive found yet. and that was just fuzzing. so not realy. 22:40 < bridge> ok yea looks like clearing the cash is fixing it 22:40 < bridge> as im getting asan symble errors 22:43 < bridge> oh boy now with asan it cant open any files? odd 22:43 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430295441127505920/image.png?ex=68f941ee&is=68f7f06e&hm=5c5dc3b7f713f870769194b08d307d4a750d4e90a702e1a1c395edff2dc76327& 22:44 < bridge> ok looks like my entire terminal got borked somehow 22:44 < bridge> restart time 22:45 < bridge> oh no.... did i bork wsl... 22:46 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430296079894581340/image.png?ex=68f94287&is=68f7f107&hm=65f2db08061fa7442f6627685b6e04ace4dc173f5721d5466745494b32e29a23& 22:47 < bridge> oh i see im out of disk space agien 22:49 < bridge> yep making more space fixed it 22:51 < bridge> somehow borked the build though so rebuild time! 22:51 < bridge> and by that i mean currupted it 22:57 < ws-client1> **** yeah chiller here it works 22:57 < ws-client1> **** on discord it shows 1. 2. all the time 23:02 < bridge> ok well i wasnt exspecting to find a json parcer bug too lol. not sure of the cause lol 23:02 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430300239079804948/image.png?ex=68f94666&is=68f7f4e6&hm=81aa005945e274fba60d2e9490c3c6121654aba820cffb3cbbf0ecf3d565650e& 23:02 < bridge> ok well i wasnt exspecting to find a json parcer bug too lol. not sure of the cause lol 23:03 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430300418214330549/image.png?ex=68f94691&is=68f7f511&hm=15b66f001c88cf11f2e10cb6c5fa64ec740e22d30b914299d77af4a3cc066d7d& 23:04 < bridge> seems to happen every time on latest though 23:05 < bridge> ddnet won't fix sanitizer issues in third party code, use suppress files from ddnet repo to hide it 23:06 < bridge> i see πŸ’€ and πŸ‘Ž but no valid rebuttal 23:06 < bridge> noted. 23:06 < bridge> also funny im causing memory overlap when opeinging the bugged map in the editor lol. ig new bug found lol 23:07 < bridge> memory overlap in a memcopy that is 23:15 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-end-near-bell-gif-13990251 23:16 < bridge> idk 23:19 < bridge> Game dies with murpi, not even a bold take 23:19 < bridge> it looks like he merged a few prs and reopened old ones that were closed by ryozuki 23:19 < bridge> Not sure what this doomposting is about 23:20 < bridge> We could probably update/replace the library though, it is still part of our attack surface 23:20 < bridge> half meme, the game will always exist, and people like me will always play, but we'll go back to a more dead game eventually, like before 23:21 < bridge> hein has always been a problem this way 23:21 < bridge> It's up to others to realize that it's a problem 23:22 < bridge> Tbh, I doubt bro was ever gonna actually release quic, it doesn't align with his views of the game 23:23 < bridge> I actually do not know why he doesn't want to finish it up tbh, he never really explained his reasons ever 23:23 < bridge> It has been like 2-3 weeks of work away from being done for the last 2 years or sth πŸ˜„ 23:23 < bridge> he never explained his reasons for rejecting 50% of the pull requests i ever submitted 23:23 < bridge> just "i dont like your approach" 23:24 < bridge> They don't align with his views of the game 23:24 < bridge> Simple 23:24 < bridge> and that alone is enough to stop hours of effort 23:24 < bridge> throw it in the garbage 23:24 < bridge> i just wish he'd be active in here, it feels wrong publicly talking shit about someone who doesnt respond to it 23:24 < bridge> then he should stop asserting himself as lead maintainer if he's not going to be active 23:24 < bridge> but ye, what ewan said. I think archi summed the experience up pretty well in #7556 23:24 < bridge> 23:24 < bridge> heinrich: `I think I don't want this, so I agree with closing it.` 23:24 < bridge> archi: `And what about the people who want this?` 23:24 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/7556 23:25 < bridge> 100%, that's why I usually try to argue his position here but then people start saying mean things about me instead πŸ˜„ 23:25 < bridge> We've actively let a zombie decide the future of this game 23:25 < bridge> 23:25 < bridge> this one is a classic 23:26 < bridge> > I think this feature is a bit hard for a first-time pull request. 23:26 < bridge> was not my first 23:26 < bridge> 23:26 < bridge> > The implementation of this shouldn't touch physics code. It should simply enable you do go back to your last safe position after you died, without touching all the code where you could die. Also, see @robyt3's comment on my general opinion on this. 23:26 < bridge> it did not touch physics code 23:26 < bridge> 23:26 < bridge> > I have explained how I think this feature should look like. The PR in its current form does not implement it. AFAIK no one has claimed that how I think the feature should look like would make it less useful for players (other than the code not existing yet, obviously). 23:26 < bridge> he did not explain how it should look 23:26 < bridge> It's clearly better to talk shit in private while the target is present 23:26 < bridge> bind groups is interesting but idk i agree with letting ppl bind ingame to whatever and keeping opinionated/hardcoded binds for demos or editor 23:27 < bridge> +1, not everything has to be hyper-customizable 23:27 < bridge> What is this bind groups idea? 23:27 < bridge> yeah but can I have my option for spacebar heating please?? 23:27 < bridge> bind groups was a meta-issue solver IMO. 23:27 < bridge> 23:27 < bridge> we have SO many issues about hardcoded binds, their behaviour etc. 23:27 < bridge> 23:27 < bridge> we had cellegen go crashout a few days ago because f1 in the editor opens up a link to our wiki :kek: 23:28 < bridge> it's not really about the feature in question, people take issue with his approach. he doesn't like it, so he makes up a reason to reject it, and does not elaborate when somebody disproves or asks for more information 23:28 < bridge> It'll be considered if you code it yourself 23:28 < bridge> ok but Cellegen crashouts are gold 23:28 < bridge> He's done a lot for the game, so most people bend to his will with no real question 23:28 < bridge> I shall pr a half-thought-out bug-ridden implementation and then vanish off the face of the earth once it's merged 23:29 < bridge> I πŸ’€ because ive mentioned it countless times now 23:29 < bridge> "hey gptee, make my pc scream when i open this game" 23:29 < bridge> oh yeah i'm right there with you 23:29 < bridge> I πŸ’€ because ive mentioned it countless times now that this happens 23:29 < bridge> i thought it was against what i said 23:29 < bridge> also not the first time i have brought it up, and i think the hein discussion earlier was sparked by the same issue msg i saw in my notifs this afternoon 23:30 < bridge> Other admins are annoyed by hein 23:30 < bridge> it is known 23:30 < bridge> Not many of em, guess who 23:30 < bridge> it would be nice if there was any wiggle room, or a way for developers/moderators/etc to decide as a whole who is for or against hein's continued maintainership 23:30 < bridge> i always knew louis is a hater 23:30 < bridge> same 23:31 < bridge> I mean he can veto stuff sometimes without much elaboration, but this one seems pretty well explained in there. He seems to prefer the `/r after death to rescue` and he wants you not to add a hook everywhere but instead restructure 23:31 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) 23:31 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 30s left 23:31 < bridge> you should look at the as well as my rebuttals 23:31 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 25s left 23:31 < bridge> you should look at the diff as well as my rebuttals 23:31 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 20s left 23:31 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 15s left 23:31 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 10s left 23:32 < bridge> it applies only to kill tiles, there is no other way to do it, other than retroactively determining if it was a kill tile 23:32 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 5s left 23:32 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 4s left 23:32 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 3s left 23:32 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 2s left 23:32 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 1s left 23:32 < bridge> risu called for vote to kick heinrich5991 (being a meanie) β€” 0s left 23:32 < bridge> Vote passed. heinrich5991 kicked by vote (being a meanie) 23:32 < bridge> It is done 23:32 < bridge> out of curiousity how is the current freeze on deathtile practice feature implemented 23:32 < bridge> I Skeith, have banished the evil 23:32 < bridge> is there one? 23:32 < bridge> pretty sure it still kills 23:32 < bridge> if(isPractice) 23:32 < bridge> { freeze }; 23:32 < bridge> else { 23:32 < bridge> kill; 23:32 < bridge> } 23:32 < bridge> if(isPractice) 23:32 < bridge> { freeze }; 23:32 < bridge> else { 23:32 < bridge> kill; 23:32 < bridge> }; 23:33 < bridge> pretty much 23:33 < bridge> xd 23:33 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430307945098248434/powder-that-makes-you-say-real-plastic-man-2796325851.gif?ex=68f94d93&is=68f7fc13&hm=7b7695f36597c2b38a4fb878a6c6b14d8f2cfa0500d747e61c6d6a61e88edc52& 23:34 < bridge> would have loved if there was any admin with a vision for the game 23:34 < bridge> i'm saying this totally blind to the code / implementation but i would just check on respawn code where the player should be spawned, if they are in practice mode then spawn on the /r spot, else find the actual spawn tiles etc. 23:34 < bridge> Truly the 8th wonder of the world 23:34 < bridge> I'm already tilted 23:34 < bridge> I dont think its possible to progress the project with just old devs that enjoy quirks like quic and dislike new features 23:35 < bridge> im just pissed about this in general, i essentially can't contribute because i know the second i do i will be barraged with nitpicks. the next best thing is to contribute to the duct tape that is tclient 23:35 < bridge> this is probably exactly what heinrich is thinking there, just need to wire it up so the respawn/death code can know the reason of the death (e.g. killtile vs kill button) 23:35 < bridge> Alright guys, new rule, if you played the game longer than 10 years, you gotta go 23:35 < bridge> we need new blood 23:35 < bridge> So what you're saying is we need game designers rather than software maintainers 23:35 < bridge> yes, I might have worded it wrong but this is what i meant 23:36 < bridge> oldschool maintainers at that... 23:36 < bridge> Learath's a problem, who's taking him out 23:36 < bridge> our admins are mostly oldschool software devs, idk if any have game dev or design exp 23:36 < bridge> This opinion makes sense if you don't think about it at all. Nitpicks are still necessary changes, whether you find them pointless or not 23:36 < bridge> idk man. i don't really contribute much code nor do i touch suspicious physics code but i feel like the contributor experience could be much much worse than what it currently is 23:37 < bridge> as in to keep 10 year old game fresh, which ofc is hard 23:37 < bridge> I'm taking myself out the next time someone starts talking about the game dying because their PR wasn't merged 23:37 < bridge> depends on the nit pick. with heinrich, you cannot talk him down 23:37 < bridge> doesn't matter if there is a reason he didn't know about 23:37 < bridge> Ewan, your turn 23:37 < bridge> doesn't matter how diplomatic you are 23:37 < bridge> ive only been here like 4 years or smth 23:38 < bridge> playing the game. involved in dev chat much less time 23:38 < bridge> Maybe I could wreak some havoc since I've only been around a year (damn it's been a year) 23:38 < bridge> Accounts wooohooooo 23:38 < bridge> this issue is brought up literally every month, you didnt need to be here for long to notice this :kek: 23:38 < bridge> yea i was responding to skeith but idk if that's what he meant in hindsight 23:39 < bridge> e.g. that rescue issue, that wasn't a "nitpick", he fundamentally thinks you did it wrong. What do you think is supposed to happen there? You clearly couldn't convince him otherwise, I don't see anyone else disagreeing with him. 23:39 < bridge> 23:39 < bridge> Should that be merged to keep you happy? 23:39 < bridge> If we actually got accounts, imagine the positivity! 23:40 < bridge> I'd be poggin 23:40 < bridge> none of that. i think you completely glazed over what i wrote in that issue, because everything in your question here was addressed there 23:40 < bridge> it was a purely technical qualm he had, so i asked for a realistic alternative at a technical level 23:40 < bridge> and was met with no response 23:41 < bridge> and if you don't see anyone else disagreeing, why are there 3 other issues about it, not to mention my long ass list of people in support of the feature 23:41 < bridge> literally in the issue 23:42 < bridge> > Rescuing after a kill would likely mean a complete overhaul/redefinition of the rescue system. There is no need to over-complicate something like this 23:42 < bridge> You said this 23:42 < bridge> 23:42 < bridge> > I think putting rescue code at every possible location where a tee can be killed is not a good way to organize the code. Sometimes, code should be reorganized instead of it being made worse. 23:42 < bridge> He replied with this. It's quite obvious to at least me what he wants. He wants you to do the work of reorganizing the code, or just giving up on the PR 23:42 < bridge> the feature is to rescue on *kill tile*, there is one valid site to "hook into", which does the exact same thing as every other practice mode "hook" 23:42 < bridge> literally just look at the diff 23:43 < bridge> it's implemented exactly the same as every other rescue scenario 23:43 < bridge> there is one place changes were made 23:43 < bridge> the alternative is literally hundreds of lines of code 23:43 < bridge> DDTrophies 23:43 < bridge> DDHats 23:43 < bridge> DDTitles 23:43 < bridge> DDCoins 23:43 < bridge> and past pull requests i have been told almost unanimously by maintainers not to overengineer things 23:44 < bridge> and you can see i did give up on the PR 23:44 < bridge> and contributing to ddnet at all 23:45 < bridge> Now is the easiest time ever for someone to replace DDNet! 23:45 < bridge> I don't think he doesn't understand that. It seems that's exactly how he wants you to do it. 23:45 < bridge> 23:45 < bridge> Is it right? Idk I didn't review this one myself so I don't know, but it seems you weren't able to compel him either 23:45 < bridge> i see what you're saying but your stance to me seems purely like veteran maintainer supremacy confirmation bias 23:46 < bridge> The funny part is, maybe this would make ddnet admins actually do something worthwhile for once (cope?) 23:46 < bridge> oh boy you can currupt a lot of the heap with this it looks like 23:46 < bridge> and acsualy contual it to a exstent 23:47 < bridge> anyway, I'm not too in the loop on the ddnet dev ecosystem but as an oss maintainer elsewhere I definitely sympathize with being extremely picky about what prs to merge or what features to add. There've been many, many times where a patch or feature looked good and plausible on the surface but turned out to have subtle problems on a more thorough look that the contributor missed. Early on I merged a number of prs where I trusted the contributor to kn 23:47 < bridge> When adding features you can't only think about how nice that feature would be to have, you need to think about all interactions with existing features, all future maintenance problems it could cause, whether it might lock you into some bad backwards-compatibility situation in the future, whether it locks you out of implementing the feature in a better way later on, etc. There are a lot of subtleties on such a scale that are easy to miss when your go 23:47 < bridge> This is a problem everywhere in open source and there's no good general solution to this, especially when maintainers don't have much time to work on the project, but the one thing that helps in my experience is more communication on both sides. When I open a nontrivial pr anywhere I usually reach out first and ask whether such a change would even be desired and whether there are any things I should consider. That prevents frustration due to work end 23:47 < bridge> 23:47 < bridge> We need another version of teeworlds on steam, guys 23:47 < bridge> think about it 23:47 < bridge> if contributing to OSS is more about kissing ass than writing quality code wtf did i even sign up for 23:47 < bridge> i just checked, it looks like the freeze inside killtile also hooks into HandleSkippableTiles: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/9295/files 23:47 < bridge> 23:47 < bridge> but like i said earlier i think the cleanest way to do it would to defer the logic to Die() and do some practice check there + respawn the player on their /r point. honestly I'm not sure what the practice code is doing because it seems like there's a new exploit every 6 months with it πŸ˜… 23:48 < bridge> the solution is having a real testing pyramid, unfortunately we don't have the budget 23:48 < bridge> wait no nvm its not realy contualable as the sorce and dest look to always be the same size so even if the copy is larger then the dest its also larger then the sorce so its copying random heap data 23:48 < bridge> yes all the good "solutions" require a lot more time and resources on the maintainer's part 23:49 < bridge> I mean I do trust his opinion more than yours if that's what you mean, but is that not normal? I've known you much less than I've known him 23:49 < bridge> the problem is that logic bounces off 23:49 < bridge> all you hear is what you want 23:49 < bridge> tldr I agree with learath 23:49 < bridge> I just know heinrich worked on Teeworlds devs are bad 23:49 < bridge> :J 23:49 < bridge> I just know heinrich worked on Teeworlds and TW devs are bad 23:50 < bridge> learath don't expose yourself as a tw worker 23:50 < bridge> no teeworlds devs left :feelsbadman: 23:50 < bridge> You might be cooking with this opinion frfr. We should fire all of our devs for being tw devs 23:50 < bridge> Hell ya 23:50 < bridge> I only worked on editor2, that doesn't count 23:50 < bridge> Quic(pls hein)k adjustmet, Teeworlds does not = DDNet 23:50 < bridge> I would agree when it comes to big features, most stuff that's client side, or not breaking or adding anything significant shouldnt have such treatment when it can be easily reverted and we do monthly patches anyway 23:51 < bridge> I would agree when it comes to big features. Most stuff that's client side, or not breaking or adding anything significant shouldnt have such treatment when it can be easily reverted and we do monthly patches anyway 23:51 < bridge> Bamcene seems to be the last bastion 23:51 < bridge> Bamcane seems to be the last bastion 23:51 < bridge> the problem is that little features interact with other little features 23:51 < bridge> Aktivprojekt 23:51 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1430312642723188746/image.png?ex=68f951f3&is=68f80073&hm=ae0ef1a79754e349e8d42674f9a21ad5543b2343943c8f490b4161bf113083ec& 23:52 < bridge> guys did u know 0.7 is finally out 23:52 < bridge> :pepeW: <- mfw the structured argument devolves into shitposting because nobody has anything left to say 23:52 < bridge> if there are two ways to do X and you add way 1 (maybe you didn't even realize way 2 existed) but later it turns out way 2 was better then you have a problem 23:52 < bridge> I've always been the local shitpost 23:53 < bridge> I'm just kinda topical at times 23:53 < bridge> if you add three little features X Y and Z then suddenly you have 6 interactions between them to worry about, it scales quadratically 23:53 < bridge> (or exponentially with binary toggles) 23:53 < bridge> and this is not even talking about code, just user-visible behavior 23:53 < bridge> so dont add anything at all? πŸ˜‚ 23:54 < bridge> no but be extremely careful what you add and how 23:54 < bridge> I'm here to keep the blood flowin 23:54 < bridge> I think the biggest issue is that y'all scared heinrich off of the discord, so now we can't discuss anything outside Github, and despite what ChillerDragon says Github is not good for discussing stuff 23:54 < bridge> that's the result I've arrived at for my project at least 23:54 < bridge> heinrich deserved to get bullied, he let us down 23:54 < bridge> In the biggest way possible, when the world needed him the most 23:54 < bridge> and this is usually far too slow for newer devs excited to contribute to a project and make a difference 23:55 < bridge> The (Tee) world... (I'm crying) 23:55 < bridge> I'm aware of the negative consequences (the project moving much slower and seeming less open to contributions) but other options seemed even worse to me 23:55 < bridge> ddnet's already careful for most prs, for something more serious seems they're too afraid to merge 23:55 < bridge> did we "scare heinrich off" or did he make enough personally &/ irrationally driven decisions to make it an inhospitable place for himself 23:55 < bridge> this conversation has not been baseless heinrich criticism 23:55 < bridge> victim blaming much= 23:55 < bridge> victim blaming much? 23:56 < bridge> it has been real developer hours wasted because of loosely formed opinions & no actual path for action afterward 23:56 < bridge> Lets not pretend we're not all victims to hein's ideal world here 23:56 < bridge> I'll die on that hill 23:56 < bridge> what is even going on 23:56 < bridge> we could have gotten some 80/20 accounts implementation, but we waited 2 years for quic that never happened 23:56 < bridge> I mean you disagree with him on something technical in essence, couldn't convince him otherwise, turned it into a criticism of him instead. It's not baseless per se but has definitely gone off of its base 23:56 < bridge> every oss project needs its boogieman I guess 23:57 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/everything-reaction-meme-gif-23306023 23:57 < bridge> every oss project needs its boogeyman I guess 23:57 < bridge> if i wanted to scrub through the issues i could find a dozen instances of the same thing 23:57 < bridge> Accounts soon btw 23:57 < bridge> I'm actually doing my own accounts with blackjack and hookers 23:57 < bridge> yo invite me 23:57 < bridge> how much is the entry fee 23:58 < bridge> I hit a bit of a wall because ChillerDragon didn't let me use the stupid 0.7 flag for encrypted packets, so it's undergoing a bit of restructuring 23:58 < bridge> you are not even talking about the base of the conversation, you're talking about one example i posted after others had expressed similar sentiment & then posted their own examples