00:50 < bridge> <Teero> Why are ghost files loaded when loading a map in the editor?
00:50 < bridge> <Teero> Why are ghost files loaded when loading a map in the demo viewer?
01:00 < bridge> <Assa> demo viewer is haunted 👻
01:01 < bridge> <Teero> yea the ghosts haunt me so much that i have to wait several minutes for them to load on a specific map 👻
01:01 < bridge> <Assa> that's a very haunted map 👻
01:03 < bridge> <Teero> maybe my drive is just really slow. several thousand shouldn't take that long though
02:05 < bridge> <Teero> demos store entire maps right?
02:12 < bridge> <Teero> https://unlicense.org/
02:12 < bridge> <Teero> lol nice license
02:18 < bridge> <Teero> ah it can do both i guess
10:27 < bridge> <Teero> wow nice error. very helpful
10:27 < bridge> <Teero> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428298394677415977/image.png?ex=68f1fe09&is=68f0ac89&hm=3f94d85f57b55f5b94c398982556bfc80a9d315cdb53d726fb69abbd30837f63&
10:27 < bridge> <Teero> thanks
10:29 < bridge> <Assa> huh corrupted file? https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/60ac315511b3233082bf9336e3d89c45b11e71e5/src/engine/shared/demo.cpp#L868
10:31 < bridge> <Assa> there are multiple things that could cause them, from invalid keyframes, invalid headers to empty keyframes
10:37 < bridge> <Teero> uhhh
10:37 < bridge> <Teero> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428300770058571887/image.png?ex=68f20040&is=68f0aec0&hm=efe3cb45242f8f54e3a55581d5a3ef7f29b272c2860d2103ed8b27f90e94f4a9&
10:42 < bridge> <Assa> why is one dialog red and the other not 🤔
10:44 < bridge> <Teero> dunno
10:44 < bridge> <Teero> ask robyt
10:45 < bridge> <Assa> lets not annoy robyt with some minor inkonsitencies in UI
10:56 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428305682376949801/image.png?ex=68f204d3&is=68f0b353&hm=55a4fb12a9f826c1476c6285b0fda859fbdf3d1ca68ae530f9ac4157bc6a1f2f&
10:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> @jupeyy_keks i got access to epyc
10:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428306220720193617/image.png?ex=68f20553&is=68f0b3d3&hm=e014d43528edfb39fa140d637b0f66134cca21487ca119c4e16c5b993a89e067&
11:00 < bridge> <Teero> nice
11:09 < bridge> <ryozuki> we have like 12 of these
11:09 < bridge> <ryozuki> i wonder how much money is this
11:09 < chillerbot> You can see donors and how to donate here https://ddnet.org/funding/
11:09 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
11:09 < bridge> <ryozuki> good bot
11:09 < bridge> <DDNet> :heartw:
11:10 < bridge> <Assa> I need a new heart, due to too much coffee consumption. Do you know where I find a donor?
11:10 < bridge> <Assa> aww bad bot 🙁
11:10 < bridge> <DDNet> :C
11:11 < bridge> <Teero> i would **not** like to donate
11:11 < bridge> <Teero> i cash
11:11 < bridge> <Assa> it's all about the money
11:11 < bridge> <Teero> i forgot the triggers
11:11 < bridge> <DDNet> no u
11:12 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> epyc
13:21 < bridge> <totar> anyone wanna review this? I am also annoyed by it. https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/9931
13:22 < bridge> <totar> oh it changes snapinput, ig that's kinda ugly
15:45 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> closing integers in favour of a non-merged PR
15:45 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> 
15:45 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> such chiller!
15:45 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> now heinrich has to close the PR
15:45 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> its the third law of greed
15:50 < bridge> <Assa> Thx Jupey :deen_star:
15:50 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> closing issuesin favour of a non-merged PR
15:50 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> 
15:50 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> such chiller!
15:50 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> closing issues in favour of a non-merged PR
15:50 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> 
15:50 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> such chiller!
15:52 < bridge> <Teero> Doesn't seem like a complex change
15:58 < bridge> <chillerdragon> It’s all mind games
17:19 < bridge> <Assa> you talked about wanting to keep the quad shader values lower. Wouldn't I need to scale the values up in the shader, or would you somehow scale them up before doing the draw call?
17:21 < bridge> <Assa> nevermind there is already a conversion in place
17:21 < bridge> <Assa> ```
17:21 < bridge> <Assa>     FinalPos.x = FinalPos.x / 1024.0 + gQuadBO.gUniEls[TmpQuadIndex].gOffset.x;
17:21 < bridge> <Assa>     FinalPos.y = FinalPos.y / 1024.0 + gQuadBO.gUniEls[TmpQuadIndex].gOffset.y;
17:21 < bridge> <Assa> ```
17:22 < bridge> <Assa> but why is it only present in vulkan 🤔
17:23 < bridge> <Assa> ~~but why is it only present in vulkan 🤔~~
17:36 < bridge> <Pink_Ko> where is account?
18:13 < bridge> <Assa> does ddnet cache the shaders somewhere? I have a weird bug where every vulkan shader does not load even tho I only touched one
18:14 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> delete that weird file sha smth in build dir
18:14 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> but normally it should noticed source changes
18:14 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> did u maybe change them in build dir?
18:20 < bridge> <Assa> yes, I probably did, I also did another huge nono
18:20 < bridge> <Assa> deleted the build dir and full clean reconfiguring rn
18:41 < bridge> <Assa> @jupeyy_keks for you :owo:
20:12 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> if you want to make prs for me now start with aggounts
20:15 < bridge> <Assa> Idk what aggounts are :justatest:  guess I don't want to do more PRs for you if the next topic is accounts
20:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i know
20:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> we never touch the important stuff
20:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> :saddo:
20:17 < bridge> <Assa> My issue is that I am out of the loop there, Learath told me there is a proposal how you want to handle it with quic and so on. Do you have a link for me so I can at least read into it?
20:17 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> yeah read into quic hehe
20:17 < bridge> <Assa> My issue is that I am out of the loop there, @learath2 told me there is a proposal how you want to handle it with quic and so on. Do you have a link for me so I can at least read into it?
20:18 < bridge> <Assa> hm :/
20:18 < bridge> <kebscs> :tear:
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> no map shaders thnks to me
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> no accounts thanks to lea
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> no new stuff thanks to heino
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> no new website thanks to deen
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> no microservices thanks to robyte
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> just replace all of us
20:20 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> and ddnet gets some new vibe shit
20:26 < bridge> <Assa> good that all of these are wrong 🙂
20:27 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> no
20:28 < bridge> <Assa> - I implemented a new shader part for 19.4 for example
20:28 < bridge> <Assa> - no accounts is just true
20:28 < bridge> <Assa> - we get new stuff, like new speedtiles for example, but we have other candidate tiles
20:28 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> we wont get map shaders as long as i have write access to ddnet
20:28 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> new stuff does not mean new tiles
20:29 < bridge> <Assa> what do you have against new shaders/map shaders?
20:29 < bridge> <Assa> if I'd write a tee shader, would it be automatically rejected?
20:29 < bridge> <kebscs> "new" speedtile
20:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> we are stuck with a shit network system that 2 ppl in this project understand
20:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> we are stuck with a brocken map format
20:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> we are stuck with some shit rendering system that is literally from 1997
20:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> sry
20:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i meant shaders provided by the map
20:30 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> not new shaders for map rendering
20:30 < bridge> <Assa> yeah you mean like the water shader I made
20:30 < bridge> <Assa> just baked into the map
20:30 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> any kind of arbritrary shaders
20:31 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> and no accounts is true in multiple senses
20:31 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> we most likely would not merge a chat based one either
20:31 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> bcs someone is always unhappy
20:32 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> and old clients... i still have not heard from any admin why we need to support clients from 2010
20:32 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> that are probs full of vulnerables
20:32 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> that alone would be a reason to not allow them, so ppl stop using them
20:33 < bridge> <Assa> I always thought we have some usage stats and remove really unused clients?
20:33 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> and most modding support sucks too, bcs it's not general enough to not make ddnet an ugly mess
20:33 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> and lua sucks ass
20:33 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> and wasm nobody likes bcs it's too new
20:33 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> too cool
20:33 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> would require a nice rewrite too
20:34 < bridge> <kebscs> python scripts?
20:34 < bridge> <Assa> he is a python hater
20:34 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> https://tenor.com/view/fbi-gif-2734175389934997010
20:34 < bridge> <kebscs> python scripts actually good
20:34 < bridge> <kebscs> better than lua
20:34 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> really
20:34 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> wow that is so 2099
20:34 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> what if linux distro xy gets incompatible
20:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> as much as i love linux, but i think ddnet has outgrown packet managers
20:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> updating a game every 2 years is simply retarded
20:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i admit lua is on a similar level from a shit perspective.. but bro
20:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 
20:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> python
20:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> that is already bottom
20:36 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> u cannot go below ground
20:36 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> this aint minecraft
20:36 < bridge> <kebscs> python is nice 🙂
20:36 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51MphRM1DIL._UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
20:37 < bridge> <Assa> id really love some wasm tbh
20:37 < bridge> <Ewan> :justatest:
20:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> yeah but tbh that is also a problem
20:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> function based modding
20:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> not in our scope
20:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> the mod loader has to be done by someone else
20:37 < bridge> <Assa> but ... but minecraft is written in java 😮
20:38 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> why can minecraft just break shit and everyone loves it
20:38 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> how do they do it
20:38 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> why can we not
20:38 < bridge> <Ewan> is that a serious question
20:38 < bridge> <Assa> we absolutely could, we just have active maintainers against it
20:39 < bridge> <Assa> sacret backwards comp ore something
20:39 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> now reason
20:39 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> convince me
20:39 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> good luck
20:40 < bridge> <Assa> it's hard to convice sb of something that you are not convinced in
20:40 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> then strengthen my position xD
20:40 < bridge> <pioooooo> i'd say not everyone loves that
20:41 < bridge> <louis> u gotta find rce in client, then we can break compatibility
20:41 < bridge> <pioooooo> but they just don't have a say
20:41 < bridge> <Assa> we need to go further, we need some more content in order to keep the game alive, new features, new tiles, the game is > 15 years old
20:41 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i dont want to know of how many robyte is aware alone with map validations added
20:41 < bridge> <Assa> time for map fuzzing again?
20:52 < bridge> <learath2> I actually really want to fuzz maps and network. I really enjoyed the lecture on fuzzing a couple weeks ago
20:53 < bridge> <learath2> But I noticed I have like 5 unfinished ddnet things, really need to stop hopping from thing to thing, pick one and finish it
20:54 < bridge> <Assa> @jupeyy_keks any opinion on #11079 ?
20:54 < bridge> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/11079
20:55 < bridge> <milkeeycat> is it possible to.. finish projects? :justatest:
20:55 < bridge> <Assa> yes, if you define what a finish state is before starting it and just keep pushing towards that goal
20:56 < bridge> <Assa> and if you fail to reach that goal, then you're also finished. Otherwise you're just in a pending state
20:56 < bridge> <robyt3> The datafile reader has been fuzzed extensively and should™ be free from any bugs. Fuzzing the map format on a higher level would be pretty slow because you have to restart the entire client for it. Network fuzzing would be useful, because it seems like there's some memory corruption bug somewhere to cause #11046.
20:56 < bridge> <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/11046
21:01 < bridge> <learath2> That sounds bad, thankfully probably extremely annoying to exploit for anything harmful
21:01 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Python is so much heavier and less based than lua
21:01 < bridge> <learath2> Wow a lua enjoyer in gods year 2025
21:02 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Cancelled
21:02 < bridge> <learath2> Based opinion frfr
21:03 < bridge> <Teero> honestly im bad at both, but my nvim config is pretty clean though
21:04 < bridge> <aegisub> we love lua
21:04 < bridge> <pilonpl> lua is awesome
21:05 < bridge> <pilonpl> it's my favorite slop programming language
21:05 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Python is unbased for being object oriented but based for occasionally being functional
21:05 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Lua is unbased but also based for not being anything normal oriented
21:05 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Just write something wacky with Nth order functions and metatables
21:05 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Lua is hashmap oriented
21:06 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> lua is 1 index oriented
21:06 < bridge> <pilonpl> lua is whatever you want it to be
21:06 < bridge> <zhn> no
21:06 < bridge> <zhn> cpp is
21:06 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> C++ is a bad language but a number of subsets of C++ are decent languages
21:06 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> didnt teero literally make a c file behave like a bash script
21:07 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> xD
21:07 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> c supremacy
21:07 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> derive macros
21:07 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> i like zig, i wish i had the energy to learn it
21:07 < bridge> <zhn> gimme c with generics
21:07 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> how can you tell you like it
21:08 < bridge> <b l u e  b e n c i e> i watched a lot of vids on it
21:08 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> gimme c with type safety :lol:
21:08 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> I like Rust but I'm not learning it exactly because I know I'd like it
21:08 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> and I don't want to go down that path
21:09 < bridge> <Ewan> nothing wrong with lua
21:09 < bridge> <Ewan> wild take
21:09 < bridge> <Ewan> there are still many many things you can only do in C++
21:09 < bridge> <Ewan> rust metaprogramming and compile time evaluation lags behind and nothing else even competes
21:09 < bridge> <kebscs> nuh uh
21:10 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> I'm pretty sure you too only use some subset of C++ you consider reasonable
21:10 < bridge> <Ewan> not really
21:10 < bridge> <Ewan> i am exposed to a lot of C++ nerds
21:11 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I am pretty sure we all only _know_ a subset of c++
21:11 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 😬
21:11 < bridge> <Ewan> i read about way more than i use
21:11 < bridge> <Ewan> only .1% of cpp users have any kind of mastery over the langauge lol
21:11 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I bet even most cpp compiler devs don't know everything
21:11 < bridge> <zhn> you got numbers a bit too big
21:11 < bridge> <zhn> 0.0001%
21:11 < bridge> <Ewan> yea
21:11 < bridge> <Ewan> i started with a few more 0s
21:13 < bridge> <Assa> sus definition of mastery i.g.
21:14 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> someone got a cool project to work on?
21:14 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> I know this is an oversimplification but:
21:14 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> python - Installed Size: 67.54 MiB
21:14 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> lua - Installed Size: 1533.21 KiB
21:14 < bridge> <Ewan> i consider mastery having some knowledge or experience with every piece of the language
21:14 < bridge> <milkeeycat> https://github.com/ChillerDragon/teeworlds-asmr
21:14 < bridge> <Assa> write a good tee skin shader for 0.6 and 0.7 skins and look if it improves performance :justatest:
21:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> it would
21:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> don't need to write anything
21:15 < bridge> <zhn> opensrs ran 5g lte
21:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 100% would improve performance
21:15 < bridge> <Ewan> most cpp devs are either writing pseudo-C or just using smart pointers/algorithms/containers/basic templates
21:15 < bridge> <zhn> :justatest:
21:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> a custom hook shader too
21:15 < bridge> <Ewan> it's like 10% of the language
21:15 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> a better particle shader too
21:15 < bridge> <Assa> according to a dictionary:
21:15 < bridge> <Assa> > comprehensive knowledge or skill in a particular subject or activity.
21:15 < bridge> <Assa> You don't need to know everything of a language in order to accomplish this
21:15 < bridge> <Ewan> why are we arguing about my definition of mastery
21:15 < bridge> <Teero> c++ is so huge xd
21:16 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> wat xd
21:16 < bridge> <Assa> sowwy 🙁
21:16 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Maybe we're arguing about your definition of comprehensive instead
21:16 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> assa stop depression
21:16 < bridge> <Assa> not today, I have ear pain
21:17 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> k
21:17 < bridge> <Ewan> i was at The conference last month, and my local meetup (<5m from my high school) has a lot of people that write all sorts of different kinds of cpp, have done it by trade for years and years, and still learn new things from a few particular speakers
21:17 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> I love how brittle everything is
21:17 < bridge> <Ewan> you can get along perfectly fine knowing some 10% of the  language
21:17 < bridge> <Ewan> but mastery is a different thing
21:17 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i kinda want to write a x86 -> x86_64 compiler xD
21:17 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 
21:18 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> but dealing with ABI stuff is nearly impossible
21:18 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> but would be cool to just transform a 32bit into 64bit
21:18 < bridge> <Assa> you can't know everything a language can offer, or do you know everything about the boost library in c++ for example?
21:18 < bridge> <kebscs> lua 2.3M users python 11.3 mil
21:18 < bridge> <Ewan> i absolutely have not mastered the language
21:18 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Let's look at how many users JavaScript has...
21:18 < bridge> <Ewan> but boost is not a part of the standard
21:18 < bridge> <Ewan> neither is WinAPI or any of the build systems etc
21:19 < bridge> <Ewan> still very useful and common info to have
21:19 < bridge> <kebscs> i think scripting support should have players in mind, not filesize
21:19 < bridge> <Assa> but doesn't it help you master your task? Rewriting everything from scratch instead is also not what I understand as mastery
21:19 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Lua is traditional for games! Also DDNet should stay based
21:19 < bridge> <Teero> boost is shit xd
21:19 < bridge> <Ewan> hot take
21:19 < bridge> <Ewan> you are a C dev
21:19 < bridge> <Ewan> u hate what u dont understand
21:20 < bridge> <Ewan> try out mp11
21:20 < bridge> <Teero> i hate that it's so bloated xD
21:20 < bridge> <Ewan> it's very modular
21:20 < bridge> <Ewan> and you can get the modules thru cpm
21:20 < bridge> <Assa> this is actually a hot take ngl xD
21:20 < bridge> <Ewan> you seem to be reading between the lines and interpreting things i am not saying
21:20 < bridge> <Ewan> mastering *the language* is not the same as mastering the task you do that leverages the language
21:21 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> oh btw luajit install size on my system is somehow even smaller??
21:21 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> and luajit go brr so that's always a good reason to pick it
21:21 < bridge> <Assa> of course, but comprehensive knowledge about a language includes things besides it, outside of the tellerand
21:21 < bridge> <Ewan> luajit is good but is it up to spec with normal lua yet
21:21 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> it's a few minor versions behind but who cares
21:22 < bridge> <Teero> your binary size explodes according to my experiences xd
21:22 < bridge> <Teero> maybe i did something wrong
21:22 < bridge> <Ewan> all depends on what you are doing
21:22 < bridge> <Ewan> templates and such are absolutely gonna balloon binary size
21:23 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks
21:23 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/
21:23 < bridge> <Ewan> any loops that get vectorized by the compiler or excessive use of inlines
21:23 < bridge> <Ewan> it's about how you write the code for sure
21:25 < bridge> <Teero> lmao is this not just C? xD
21:25 < bridge> <Teero> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428463850738683934/image.png?ex=68f29821&is=68f146a1&hm=963057fcc4fd4984ad181c90443d9a047eb11038951d6b5982525c6804c42d57&
21:25 < bridge> <Ewan> nimrocks
21:25 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> that benchmark purposely does not consider vm startup times
21:26 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> so yes, python using 100MB RAM can beat c
21:26 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> not impossible that c looses if you make a language that is good in exactly one thing 😉
21:27 < bridge> <Assa> do we pretend that numpy does not use c bindings? xD
21:27 < bridge> <Assa> also where are my Fortran benchmarks when I need them
21:28 < bridge> <Teero> nah you gotta trust the benchmark, python is def faster than C as you can clearly see
21:28 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> pysoron
21:28 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> it whos name shall not be named
21:29 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> Kinda implying that NumPy is actually a good enough library that the algorithms could be valuable outside just Python
21:30 < bridge> <Assa> on the other side python def. is easier and faster to write than C++ or rust. If you don't care about performance, go with python
21:30 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> hello
21:30 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> before learning python, get a vibe coder
21:31 < bridge> <Assa> too late, learned python before vibe coding was a thing
21:31 < bridge> <Teero> digga
21:31 < bridge> <Teero> jupstar
21:31 < bridge> <inv41idu53rn4m3> I get uncomfortable writing anything not statically typed so I'd go for the secret fourth option
21:34 < bridge> <Ewan> it's hard to say bcs python definitely has solid applications but it's not a great first language for people hoping to get intimate low level knowledge, nor does it have that much commercial application
21:34 < bridge> <louis> lol python has a looot of commercial application
21:34 < bridge> <Ewan> it's kind of an outcast
21:34 < bridge> <Assa> you'd be suprised how many shit is running on a fastapi or flask server in python.
21:34 < bridge> <Ewan> it's Kinda used for trading and Kinda used for web backends and aside from data science stuff im' drawing a blank
21:34 < bridge> <Ewan> it's not the first pick for any of that
21:35 < bridge> <louis> ml/ai
21:35 < bridge> <Ewan> still?
21:35 < bridge> <Assa> tensorflow pytorch, yes still
21:36 < bridge> <Ewan> i figured that was all obsolete by now
21:36 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i want to make teeworlds ai
21:36 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> but i am not vibe enough
21:36 < bridge> <Ewan> yea
21:37 < bridge> <Ewan> i want to make a rust desktop app but they are not making the gui stuff easy
21:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> yea
21:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> i want that too
21:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> but i have no project
21:37 < bridge> <Ewan> i really want to use xilem but it's under such heavy development that anything i build with it i will have to constantly maintain until stability
21:38 < bridge> <Ewan> as much as i love the decoupled model/appstate and view/rendering (with actual gpu)
21:38 < bridge> <Ewan> it seems like the perfect way conceptually
22:22 < bridge> <aegisub> luajit is great though I've made bad experiences with depending exclusively on it
22:23 < bridge> <aegisub> the app I maintain has a plugin system that uses luajit in lua 5.2 compat mode (not my decision, I just took over maintainership) and that's hell because almost no distro ships that
22:23 < bridge> <aegisub> not to mention you're screwed on any platform that luajit doesn't support
22:24 < bridge> <aegisub> so, kids, use lua itself for the api and luajit for the performance
23:40 < bridge> <Teero> Is the client supposed to crash if it comes across an invalid .demo file? xdd
23:40 < bridge> <Teero> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428497841952657490/generated_demo.demo?ex=68f2b7c9&is=68f16649&hm=832f6a11b2c27f4ad749d8419f6647ce8fa8188003c807a34204d7b76bf11583&
23:41 < bridge> <Teero> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428497996642914346/image.png?ex=68f2b7ee&is=68f1666e&hm=76388b405db1a3b22323d6a5f9d6498b2ef8780c73a7920ccf91a1f29c317a4a&
23:42 < bridge> <Ewan> definitely not
23:42 < bridge> <Ewan> it doesn't look like the full assert msg
23:43 < bridge> <Teero> it is
23:43 < bridge> <Teero> well go try it yourself
23:46 < bridge> <Ewan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1428499259509969037/image.png?ex=68f2b91b&is=68f1679b&hm=e0ba12365046a3164b01f9c71fcd31668774f7e54bbc480dbe95fccf3bd9c8fe&
23:46 < bridge> <Ewan> just because it crashes for me does not mean it is supposed to crash
23:46 < bridge> <Ewan> ideally it never crashes
23:46 < bridge> <Ewan> idk what your question is