00:38 < bridge> @chillerdragon ur pr doesnt really effect my change 00:38 < bridge> sleep! 00:43 < ws-client> **** yes you are right 00:43 < ws-client> **** i also need sleep maybe we can still yolo it in like that 00:44 < ws-client> **** looks like you dont kill in ``DecreaseHealthAndKill`` are players supposed to not die in tsmash when hammered to 0 hp? 00:45 < ws-client> **** oh yes you even clarified in the comment 00:45 < ws-client> **** omg i need sleep bye xd 01:40 < bridge> !remind 14 @swarfey 01:40 < chillerbot> Helo chillerdragon I will remind you at Thu Aug 21 2025 01:54:57 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 01:54 < chillerbot> Elo @chillerdragon I just wanted to remind you that: @swarfey 02:06 < bridge> !remind 3 you're stupid 02:06 < chillerbot> Helo teero777 I will remind you at Thu Aug 21 2025 02:09:37 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 02:09 < chillerbot> Elo @teero777 I just wanted to remind you that: you're stupid 02:13 < bridge> thanks 02:14 < bridge> !remind me 105192000 how are you still alive wtf 02:14 < chillerbot> Helo teero777 I will remind you at Fri Aug 22 2025 02:14:11 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 02:14 < bridge> huh? does it max out at a day chillerdragon? 04:49 < bridge> Is this still accurate on Steam, now that we have controller settings and all? 04:49 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1379133353571254382/Wm1n4Wd.png?ex=68a74806&is=68a5f686&hm=d00bf7455e240120a9d52c94069d2fbdc5c0f138d2b84408cb3a103a043c8b04& 05:59 < bridge> You wrote remind me 06:04 < bridge> lol 06:04 < bridge> !remind 105192000 how are you still alive wtf 06:04 < chillerbot> Helo teero777 I will remind you at Thu Aug 28 2025 06:04:17 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 06:04 < bridge> still only a day hmm 06:04 < bridge> Mh 06:04 < bridge> A week 06:05 < bridge> oh 06:05 < bridge> Chillerdragon: stop limiting us 06:05 < bridge> Is the time in seconds? 06:05 < bridge> minutes 06:06 < bridge> I was going for 200 years 06:06 < bridge> !remind 10519200 how are you still alive wtf 06:06 < chillerbot> Helo Jupstar ✪ I will remind you at Thu Aug 28 2025 06:06:31 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 06:06 < bridge> Guess one week is Max 06:06 < bridge> Bad bot 06:06 < bridge> :( 06:15 < bridge> @jupeyy_keks sweetbot is spitting facts once again 06:15 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1407941039515504640/image0.png?ex=68a7eec6&is=68a69d46&hm=43f1128739f2d1b0b7d1230b0bfc305a7e4363043e73ed1673ef08be1fe84fc2& 06:15 < bridge> How do I get there 06:27 < bridge> 😋 06:54 < bridge> Lel 06:54 < bridge> Greatest philosopher alive 07:27 < bridge> good morning all chillerbot enthusiasts, kernel devs and others ☀️ 07:27 < bridge> !remind -1 test 07:27 < chillerbot> Helo Assa I will remind you at Thu Aug 21 2025 07:26:59 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 07:28 < chillerbot> yo @Assa keep in mind to: test 07:29 < bridge> remind -1200 bot remind me yesterday 07:29 < bridge> !remind -1200 bot remind me yesterday 07:29 < chillerbot> Helo Assa I will remind you at Wed Aug 20 2025 11:29:17 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 07:29 < chillerbot> Elo @Assa I just wanted to remind you that: bot remind me yesterday 07:29 < bridge> too late 😠 08:26 < bridge> Blame @ryozuki for the max 08:33 < bridge> !remind 5 @ryozuki test backups (too soon? Xd) 08:33 < chillerbot> Helo chillerdragon I will remind you at Thu Aug 21 2025 08:38:46 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 08:38 < chillerbot> yo @chillerdragon keep in mind to: @ryozuki test backups (too soon? Xd) 08:39 < bridge> :justatest: 08:43 < bridge> the attack is already underway 08:49 < bridge> !remind kill my self 08:49 < chillerbot> Helo ryozuki I will remind you at Fri Aug 22 2025 08:49:33 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 08:55 < bridge> ono 08:55 < bridge> @ryozuki: everything will be okay c: 09:02 < bridge> !remind 1427 @ryozuki you are beatiful and we love you 09:02 < chillerbot> Helo Assa I will remind you at Fri Aug 22 2025 08:49:01 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) about your matter again. 09:46 < bridge> on other news, i nearly got my fat32 filesystem to work with SATA/AHCI instead of PATA 09:49 < bridge> this is a increase from max 16mb/s to 1.5gb/s 09:49 < bridge> (well qemu has a 1.5gb limit) 09:49 < bridge> i think sata limit is 6 09:58 < bridge> I am currently writing the composition instead of inheritance for robyt, it's annoying because it's so much more code but maybe I'm just lazy 10:33 < ws-client> **** @Assa you farmed so many reviews your ddnet C++ style became flawless 🚀 10:34 < ws-client> **** what even is composition instead of inheritance xd 10:36 < bridge> asks the maintainer omg 10:36 < ws-client> **** maintainer btw 10:36 < ws-client> **** @learath2 i merged physics breaking changes for you! now you merge config breaking changes for me! https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/10711 10:36 < bridge> inheritance is when a class inherits from another 10:36 < ws-client> **** i got 20 prs open that are ready ._. 10:36 < bridge> like class A : public B; 10:37 < bridge> composition is class A { B m_B;} 10:37 < bridge> composition is `class A { B m_B;}` 10:37 < bridge> Are we sure we don't want to keep the numbers as special aliases to `mod` and `helper` for old times sake? 10:37 < bridge> like `class A : public B;` 10:37 < ws-client> **** @learath2 I would love to do it. If i have the greenlight from the miesmuschel maintainers 10:38 < bridge> I hope robyt likes the 1000+ LOC coming from composition instead of inheritance 10:38 < bridge> I wouldn't be against it. Who didn't want it? 10:38 < ws-client> **** i would have to investigate 10:38 < ws-client> **** i think heinrich or deen 10:38 < ws-client> **** maybe it was also C++ code not user facing configs 10:38 < ws-client> **** so more #7777 deprecation 10:38 < chillerbot> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7777 10:40 < ws-client> **** @learath2 yea idk i dont find it anymore. We could rush it in quickly before heinrich can react xd 10:40 < ws-client> **** i will do it 10:41 < bridge> Let's think, what would be the issue with it 10:41 < bridge> You'd have to handle numbers as special, so they can't be names of access_levels 10:41 < ws-client> **** ah thanks for explaining @Assa. Look at this contributor explain the maintainer how the world works 10:42 < ws-client> **** @learath2 lerato when do we make @Assa maintainer? 10:42 < ws-client> **** yea i guess composition could be cool its more reusable. OOP sounds nice until you end up with diamond inhertiance shit 10:42 < ws-client> **** @learath2 the numbers blocking access levels is fine 10:43 < bridge> Hm, idk, 2 maintainers wanting to make everything go lightspeed might be too much 10:43 < ws-client> **** the biggest pain point is code complexity and that we might have to support it forever 10:43 < ws-client> **** @learath2 hrhrh the fakin cant merge your own and need 2 maintainer rule rly slows shit down 10:44 < bridge> I'm sure you can make it simple enough and if simple enough support forever is fine I guess 10:44 < ws-client> **** @learath2 ok then when i burn out from ddnet in 2 weeks and stop merge everything I will be as stale maintainer as you my big role model. Then you can make assa maintainer ez? 10:44 < bridge> That's the entire point of the rule 10:45 < bridge> This isn't some bleeding edge playground, it's supposed to be fairly stable 😄 10:47 < ws-client> **** ddnet-rs mentioned 10:47 < bridge> Yeah, just give it a go, unless someone else sees a flaw we are both missing we can just merge it 10:47 < ws-client> **** i dont miss flaws 10:47 < ws-client> **** i just disagree with heinrich what a flaw is 10:48 < ws-client> **** cronically 10:48 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/9845 10:49 < bridge> @chillerdragon approve, now that you're a maintainer 10:49 < bridge> I am just trying to improve the game at some critical points 10:49 < ws-client> **** @kebscs <:justatest:572499997178986510> im scared 10:49 < ws-client> **** i already wrote big wall of text as maintainer 10:49 < bridge> Who else going to do that 10:50 < ws-client> **** should convince other maintainers 10:50 < ws-client> **** @kebscs lerato the goatedest of all 10:50 < bridge> Heinrich wants to give context how many reactions there is instead of actually commenting 10:50 < bridge> Rly useful 10:50 < bridge> my current goals: 10:50 < bridge> - make map rendering blazingly fast 10:50 < bridge> - make editor use map rendering, so it's not slow turtle editor 10:50 < bridge> - recorder tiles 10:51 < bridge> I think I like all your PRs. I would just worry about you and chiller just approving all of eachothers PRs immediately 😄 10:51 < bridge> you can make rules and just forbid that 10:51 < bridge> you can make rules and just forbid that; to clarify: forbid merging not approving 10:51 < bridge> requires 2 maintainers excluding assa and chiller if its an assa or chiller pr 10:52 < bridge> Most specificest of rules 😄 10:52 < bridge> but practical 10:52 < bridge> lmao all maintainers are equal, but some maintainers are more equal 10:52 < bridge> * lerato 2025 10:53 < bridge> yeah but that's actually true, we are all more specialized in different regions of the code 10:53 < bridge> if you don't agree with that, continue heinrichs QUIC PR 10:53 < bridge> if you don't agree with that, continue heinrichs QUIC PR (most dead slap argument I ever gave lol) 10:53 < bridge> I would approve fast input but I'm like 70% sure all of you are just having a placebo trip 10:53 < bridge> We can use his historical comment to plot the +1 votes over time and make a point xd 10:53 < bridge> Even the aoe video? 10:54 < bridge> Is he immune to placebo? 10:55 < bridge> merge4merge uwu 10:55 < bridge> @learath2 i get motion sick without fst input lmao 10:56 < bridge> i might be placebo'ing tho 10:57 < bridge> It is possible, idk that's why I said there it's very hard to measure whether this actually improves anything 10:57 < bridge> Maybe we can just merge it and allow disabling it? The people who might possibly hate it the most are veterans, who can just flip it back 10:59 < bridge> Yes, it's proposed as compeletly optional, off by default 10:59 < bridge> So people don't have to change to tclient solely for just this 1 feature 11:00 < bridge> Also more in general, stuff like votes and reactions to things like this is extreeemely biased. We have 5k players, maybe 100 of them are involved enough to react to anything. 11:00 < bridge> 11:00 < bridge> Especially when someone well known in the community is involved with pushing for it. Look at the old team colors thing. All of Aoe's friends showed up to vote. Mostly all players playing since 0.5.2 11:01 < bridge> Most players never hear about votes, new features. I think it's our job to advocate for their needs too. Not just the needs of the 30 people who are hyperinvolved 11:01 < bridge> I am more in favor of adding something like a community manager, the community can collect issues and features they want and the community manager goes to devs and looks how it could be done 11:02 < bridge> Heinrich is strong technically but I think it’s fair that he doesn’t rush his opinion when it comes to deeply gameplay relevant things. As josspit loves to say it: you don’t get a green name without stopping to play 11:02 < bridge> My bad forgot it's ddnet, let's do nothing 11:02 < bridge> Nothing ever happens 11:03 < bridge> The hard part is finding the "community". We keep ending up polling a very small non-representative portion of the community 11:03 < bridge> force every player to have a github account 11:03 < bridge> :kek: 11:03 < bridge> You will get lynched for that by extreme gores players haha. Go let them blind test it. 11:04 < bridge> @kebscs: another reason why I don’t feel like approving fast input is that I never tried it and also don’t want to try it xd 11:04 < bridge> Nothing ever happens, meanwhile ChillerDragon is merging like 80 PRs a second 11:04 < bridge> I also don’t use anti ping 11:04 < bridge> And a too high mouse senses 11:04 < bridge> I want to cap my skill 11:04 < bridge> I wish we could facilitate this. It would be the proper way to see if my hypothesis that everyone is tripping on placebo is true 11:05 < bridge> <0xdeen> I think polling is not be the best way to determine direction for DDNet. Need someone at the top with a vision, and then just do it. Polls are too easy to game. 11:05 < bridge> Of what, random fixes/reactors? 11:05 < bridge> Otherwise my ungodly skill could be confused with botting 11:05 < bridge> Name 1 actual feature not added by me last 6months 11:05 < bridge> Don't think there's more than 2 11:05 < bridge> How is this a good metric of anything? At 2 features per month we'll end up with a mess in a year 11:06 < bridge> Amount of features is a genuinely horrible metric 11:07 < bridge> @learath2: yes voting is rigged but I value aoe 0.5 friends opinion more than 12yo Russian tiktoker who plays since 2 weeks and never downloaded ddnet. And thinks voldemort is the main client. But I am also trying to advertise GitHub to get more players into the discussion 11:07 < bridge> Definetly not what I said 11:07 < bridge> 1 feature in last 6 months equal to 1 in 6 months 11:07 < bridge> Not 2 every month 11:07 < bridge> If by some miracle you could take a representative sample of the playerbase, maybe? But then a lot of people will be very upset when we have to add clan war features for the blocker players 11:07 < bridge> Also I think opinions of players that care more and will stay longer matter more 11:08 < bridge> So, how many new features a month you think is the appropriate amount? 11:09 < bridge> The correct answer is that there is no "appropriate amount of new features per month". Sometimes there just isn't anything worth adding, and that is fine. It's what happens as projects mature 11:09 < bridge> Yes I agree proper dictators are good. But we have nobody that is active enough .\_. 11:09 < bridge> This isn't why nothing gets added 11:09 < bridge> The new switch targets look very promising. They will probably be the next major feature to be added 11:10 < bridge> You and I seem to disagree on "what is worth adding", that seems to be the main issue here 11:10 < bridge> would like to have bucket tool , i know that it's definetly possible with automaping rule , just don't know how . 11:10 < bridge> can someone make or send me if he have it ? 11:10 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1408015426952237148/image.png?ex=68a8340d&is=68a6e28d&hm=b75697cea75f66cc8f11a82dda58779965088b45864ab77f1315b9f4aefbe409& 11:10 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1408015427296034969/image.png?ex=68a8340d&is=68a6e28d&hm=b10b3eb9d107f8dc0f073ebc9251370206607041b89a60f9d4c5acb1251a41e9& 11:11 < bridge> Aha, maybe time we finally use a breadth first search 11:11 < bridge> Nothings worth adding if you don't add anything 11:11 < bridge> That doesn't make sense 11:11 < bridge> It's circular 11:11 < bridge> I code a feature/make a request for 1 and it's in endless "discussion" 11:11 < bridge> @chillerdragon look what you've done, now I made it a composition and you have 27 files to look at 11:12 < bridge> Very easy for you to take 0 action and keep discussing 11:12 < bridge> That's why we say ask us before making stuff to anyone that shows up 11:13 < bridge> The discussions are how you figure out whether something is worth adding. You come in there with the a priori assumption that it is worth adding, because if not why did you even code it 11:13 < bridge> OK I asked about fast input 6 months ago now what 11:14 < bridge> Who's discussing, I see just 1 maintainer typing how many reactions the issue has 11:14 < bridge> since it's highly discussed and not outright rejected, the assumption that it's worth adding can be made 11:15 < bridge> Ppl be quitting the game before any action gets taken 11:16 < bridge> Like just fork it and do whatever you want? Idk what to tell you. I'm not going to merge something because it has X thumbs up emojis and you are annoyed at us 11:16 < bridge> @essigautomat: der deutsche Redaktor mit dem großen K 11:16 < bridge> Refaktor 11:16 < bridge> Autocomplete aah 11:17 < bridge> Yea that's why people move to tclient 11:17 < bridge> Like what even is the demand here? 11:17 < bridge> And say ddnet client is shit 11:17 < bridge> Feel free to, we even encourage it 11:17 < bridge> Have all the features you like 11:18 < bridge> it's Vulkan an not Vulcan, it's Refactor and not Refaktor, can't we just delete one letter? 11:18 < bridge> lang too inefficient 11:18 < bridge> Yea gonna add new tiles asap thanks for your input 11:18 < bridge> we don't do Atomredaktors anymore 11:20 < bridge> New tiles are usually not that hard to get in. I think almost everyone got their new tiles in 11:20 < bridge> You'll see when louis finishes up with his switch targets. They'll probably take at most a week 11:20 < bridge> Last new tile added 3.5 years ago 11:21 < bridge> new tiles are very hard to get in, we have multiple finished unmerged tiles in PRs 11:22 < bridge> that's actually wrong, last tile was the new speeders this year 11:22 < bridge> I don't mind automap rule for it . If you are talking about my suggestion. 11:22 < bridge> Not a new tile 11:22 < bridge> There is probably something wrong with them. We aren't that strict on tiles 11:23 < bridge> it factually is, a new tile with tile id 29 in speedlayer, it has some different properties to the old ones 11:23 < bridge> Probably lacking a map along with the tile 11:23 < bridge> There's probably something wrong, new feature probably placebo. Nothing ever happens 11:23 < bridge> plase take a look a tune lock tiles 11:23 < bridge> Keep being snarky, I'm sure that'll help 11:23 < bridge> Wot I haven’t done anything .\_. 11:24 < bridge> You're trolling, I'm doing it back 11:24 < bridge> I have been very matter of fact and professional at every point of this conversation 11:25 < bridge> You have been implicitly badmouthing people and making snarky remarks for the last hour 11:25 < bridge> I know it's annoying to not get your things merged. But that doesn't give you the right to be an ass 11:25 < bridge> 😂 😂 11:26 < bridge> guys please, you don't make the situation better if keep on going like this 11:27 < bridge> Case and point 11:27 < bridge> You're probably right 11:27 < bridge> Can't tell need more discussion 11:27 < bridge> Well get back to you in a year to not discuss too much though 11:27 < bridge> I'd certainly look into your fast input PR 11:28 < bridge> I'm not touching anything you make with a 6ft pole, you can ask someone else to review your work. I'd rather not work with you in any manner, let alone as a collaborator 11:28 < bridge> Mb for doing anything for the game 11:29 < bridge> ^ 11:29 < bridge> We appreciate all your contributions. I personally just don't want to interact with you anymore, so someone else can handle your stuff 11:29 < bridge> I am pretty sure you both did something for the game and that this should be valued 11:29 < bridge> @learath2: rude 11:30 < bridge> Big loss, 1 merge a year less 11:30 < bridge> good vibes only 11:31 < bridge> lmao @kebscs 11:31 < bridge> we now have chillerdragon, he merges new features blazingly fast 11:31 < bridge> :justatest: as long as they're not mine 11:31 < bridge> Yes blazingly merging reverts of kebs features 11:32 < bridge> and you keep going, quite bold, anyway, I'll just ignore you, you are far too toxic for my taste and it just leaves a bad taste on the rest of my day whenever I talk with you 11:32 < bridge> :kek: 11:32 < bridge> the weather is nice here, lets all go touch some grass! 11:36 < bridge> yeah, no more 40°C outside 11:36 < bridge> a good fresh 24°C 11:37 < bridge> 22°C is room temperature, here it's 19°C (I enjoy it tbh) 11:43 < bridge> ChillerDragon: You can merge the fast input thing if you believe it's an actual improvement btw. I was considering merging it when Aoe also contacted me about it last week 11:43 < bridge> Well technically Tater still needs to PR is 11:43 < bridge> Well technically Tater still needs to PR it 11:44 < bridge> Well technically he doesn't have to, since everything is running unde GPL3, but this would be a dick move 11:44 < bridge> Well technically he doesn't have to, since everything is running under GPL3, but this would be a dick move 11:45 < bridge> Well technically he doesn't have to (and somebody else does it), since everything is running under GPL3, but this would be a dick move 11:45 < bridge> I think he is the one that came up with it, I'd rather he gets the commit credit for it. If he doesn't care for it then someone else can add it too 11:45 < bridge> @totar :owo: 11:46 < bridge> Is tclient gpl3? ddnet is zlib with our binary releases being gplv2 11:46 < bridge> I didn't define a license other than explcitly granting the upstream repo to use any code without permission 11:47 < bridge> then you technically broke license law afait 11:47 < bridge> in what way 11:47 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/8f16118425afe2c4c34736c0f22f43bde654d37d/license.txt#L19 11:48 < bridge> Well feel free to PR fast input if you'd like to see it in the client 11:48 < bridge> I still have that license 11:48 < bridge> then I didn't say anything :owo: 11:48 < bridge> did you put your own code under no license or just add it to the repo? 11:48 < bridge> this is important here 11:48 < bridge> idk the ddnet license confused me at the time I forked the project 11:48 < bridge> so I just didn't change anything 11:49 < bridge> why is it important? 11:49 < bridge> then you published the tater client with the gplv3 license (assuming it's on github) 11:49 < bridge> where does the gplv3 come from 11:49 < bridge> teeworlds 11:50 < bridge> I can license the code I wrote under whatever I want 11:50 < bridge> teeworlds isn't gplv3, it's also zlib 11:50 < bridge> How does the license work that even new added files need to have shareef as owner at the top? 11:50 < bridge> i gave my thumbs up now, 11:51 < bridge> unless they relicensed it for 0.7 11:51 < bridge> technically everything you add to the repo falls under the current contained license. You can switch the license to another one, then new code falls under the new license 11:51 < bridge> but if sb clones your project from the old license, and the old license allows it, it's legal 11:51 < bridge> even if the new license forbids it 11:52 < bridge> you can license code that you've written as any extra license you want 11:52 < bridge> if more ppl use tclient than ddnet i think ddnet is missing out on something 11:52 < bridge> you can also write at the top of each file author and license and it's licensed that way than 11:52 < bridge> this is not very clear btw, that's why some projects explicitly require you to sign a contributor agreement 11:52 < bridge> (i say this cuz i saw some gores post about tclient over ddnet) 11:52 < bridge> but well im no maintainer so u can ignore me 11:52 < bridge> which we don't have 11:53 < bridge> ok KoG it's the most popular client but I expect that's not the case for ddnet, there's simply not enough downloads for that to be the case 11:53 < bridge> on KoG it's the most popular client but I expect that's not the case for ddnet, there's simply not enough downloads for that to be the case 11:53 < bridge> Yea saw that too, was surprised 11:53 < bridge> yeah, so if someone wanted to be extremely annoying, they could try to rescind their contributions, then we'd decline, then they could sue, which idk which way it'd go because at the very least there didn't use to be precedent 11:53 < bridge> And I don't see a lot of improvements expect fast input 11:54 < bridge> some projects require u to bring a firmed letter from ur employer that ur code is licensed under the repo license, this is because some ppl have inj their contracts that all their code is company property even in free time, and if not stated it can be vague, gnu projects require this 11:54 < bridge> some projects require u to bring a signed letter from ur employer that ur code is licensed under the repo license, this is because some ppl have inj their contracts that all their code is company property even in free time, and if not stated it can be vague, gnu projects require this 11:54 < bridge> Yeah, this is very annoying too, I think it's also one of the reasons matricks kinda stopped working on teeworlds iirc. His employer had a clause like that at the time 11:54 < bridge> yeah in ddnet hard cuz ddnet ha ssteam visibility but the point stands imho 11:55 < bridge> Makes sense, idk how easy it is to just switch the license without legal problems or smth 11:55 < bridge> https://tooomm.github.io/github-release-stats/?username=sjrc6&repository=TaterClient-ddnet 11:55 < bridge> u know where i saw this written in detail? in osdev wiki about licensing ur kernel xd 11:55 < bridge> 13k every version is good 11:55 < bridge> I open sourced a project at work and had to give my employer the rights of this work (even if it's open source licensed), because it was made at work and not at home and I was technically paid for it 11:55 < bridge> Very nice 11:56 < bridge> thanks :) 11:56 < bridge> Is this website accurate? 11:56 < bridge> I assume yes 11:56 < bridge> I think it pulls directly from github 11:57 < bridge> I remember there was a way you could get this info somewhere on github but it's not as nice 11:57 < bridge> ye, but some contracts extend this to free off work time 11:57 < bridge> you forget, that most people probably installed both clients and some only have steam releases to work with. I assume tater client has no steam page? 11:57 < bridge> Thought my project would have more downloads since it had a lot of traffic on github stats 11:57 < bridge> But that website shows 100k so idk 11:58 < bridge> what project 11:58 < bridge> I think this would be illegal here; imagine my company now owns some part of ddnet :kek: 11:58 < bridge> Kbotext 11:59 < bridge> don't most clients just use our app id to show up on steam? 11:59 < bridge> This would certainly not be the case, because ddnet is really not work related 11:59 < bridge> With how popular it is, and it brought 1k discord members in no time, the website shows 8k downloads 11:59 < bridge> With how popular it is, and it brought 1k discord members in no time, the website shows 8k downloads for latest rls 11:59 < bridge> When you are under employment contract, the code you write during office hours is usually owned by those paying your salary, unless your contract explicitly says otherwise. 11:59 < bridge> 11:59 < bridge> In some countries[which?], a working contract could encompass all the work you do in a certain field of knowledge, as long as the contract is valid, and sometimes even beyond that. That means that, if you are hired to write code at day, the code you write after office hours at home might also be legal property of your employer, the reasoning being that, since your employer paid you for working (and gaining experience) in a certain field, that exper 11:59 < bridge> 11:59 < bridge> This might sound strange to you, outrageous even. But you really should have a talk with your superior. At best, your superior will see that you really are a dedicated software engineer, happy about having such an enthusiastic individual under contract, and tell you to go ahead with your spare-time project. At worst, you will be told that you cannot work on that project - before you have churned out 10k lines of source code and been sued by your em 11:59 < bridge> 11:59 < bridge> This is not a joke, or something to be taken lightly. You could lose your job, and a fortune in money on top of that, should your employer play it rough and sue you for breach of contract. The Free Software Foundation requires you to present papers signed by your superiors before accepting your code submissions, and they don't do so because they enjoy bureaucracy. 11:59 < bridge> btw if it wasn't clear, I'm granting a full rights license for any code I've published to tclient to the ddnet organization, who can publish it under whatever license it wants. 12:00 < bridge> put that in gh 12:00 < bridge> I think you don't even need to say this unless you have anything special changed with your license on your fork. The zlib license pretty much allows anyone and everyone to yoink it 12:01 < bridge> https://wiki.osdev.org/Licensing 12:01 < bridge> @essigautomat btw where did you come up with gplv3? I don't think any teeworlds based project has ever been under gplv3 😄 12:01 < bridge> I can only think of our binary releases being gplv2 12:01 < bridge> as I said, ddnet is not work related. If the company says "I thought you C++" I'd sue. 12:02 < bridge> as I said, ddnet is not work related. If the company says "I taught you C++" I'd sue. 12:03 < bridge> I think i have it wrong in my head, I released a lot under gplv3 12:03 < bridge> like "no warranty, you can't sue me, but you need to put your code open source as well if you use mine" 12:04 < bridge> that's fine then 😊 12:04 < bridge> im just saying it as info 12:04 < bridge> I think this is very dependent on the jurisdiction btw, a lot of them limit what you can as the employer claim 12:04 < bridge> but this is mostly american probs 12:04 < bridge> <0xdeen> Even if it's representative I don't think it's good. It will just be an average opinion and you end up with an average game. If there is a vision, you can make something great. 12:04 < bridge> country of "freedom" 12:05 < bridge> my contract says literally nothing about ownership of code I write for other purposes. I think even during work hours if I write code for something else I would still own it. 12:05 < bridge> I was surprised 12:05 < bridge> "representative sample of the playerbase" isn't just the people on discord server? 12:06 < bridge> I bet it would be completely illegal in the EU to make you sign some of the things that US companies make you sign 12:06 < bridge> it is. 12:07 < bridge> mine says smth about not competing in same field and not going to another company thats considered competition, but they have to give me a bonus in salary for that afaik, and i dont see it stated explicitly at my payroll so maybe it doesnt even hold 12:08 < bridge> regarldess if i ever release my kernel ill wipe all git logs and set it to something silly 12:08 < bridge> xd 12:08 < bridge> just in case 12:08 < bridge> or maybe anonymous release 12:08 < bridge> ez 12:08 < bridge> this might be one of the few things the US is ahead on, the FTC iirc banned non-competes 12:08 < bridge> (i probs wont do anything remotely useful but i already have 12k lines of code) 12:09 < bridge> mine only has a clause, that I need to follow the scientific practice (lol) 12:09 < bridge> Surely in sane countries that's not a valid contract?? I think it only makes sense if your work somehow hurts the company but even then i think it applies only for a specific amount of time. 12:09 < bridge> yeah but a contract can say lot of stuff and employees might believe it, companies are alloweed to write nything but what matters is if it holds in court 12:09 < bridge> and i bet they usually would lose 12:10 < bridge> anyway im on friendly terms with my company this is just legal assurance 12:10 < bridge> xd 12:10 < bridge> Typical issue, you might be right but the rich has a huge advantage 12:10 < bridge> well luckily having a legal battle in eu is cheaper than us 12:12 < bridge> What's wrong with non-competes? imo it's logical that you don't want your employer to share stuff directly to the competition 12:13 < bridge> competition is good for the market 12:13 < bridge> Yea but this is like sharing secrets 12:13 < bridge> no 12:13 < bridge> obviously sharing WHILE you're working for the company I think is still banned 12:13 < bridge> there is NDA and there is non compete 12:13 < bridge> ur always under a NDA 12:14 < bridge> that too 12:14 < bridge> ucant leak company secrets never iirc 12:14 < bridge> The FTC argued that it's keeping wages down, and stifles innovation 12:14 < bridge> which is pretty obviously true if you think about it for 2 seocnds 12:14 < bridge> which is pretty obviously true if you think about it for 2 seconds 12:15 < bridge> Honestly it's hard to tell 12:15 < bridge> It costs money to develop anything so it's necessary in some way to prevent others from stealing it 12:15 < bridge> For people probably it's better, for employers not so much 12:15 < bridge> Non-competes are banned, not non-disclosures, nor are you exempt from copyright law 12:15 < bridge> You can't just steal stuff 12:16 < bridge> even though this is written on paper usually poaching people from another company somehow allows them to create very similar product. I think in practice if you can't prove that they stole the secrets there's still lots of secret stealing 12:16 < bridge> The biggest issue with it is probably stealing stuff like customer lists 12:17 < bridge> If you can compete in the same market, you can call up your old clients from the old company and undercut your old company given you know their margins and overheads 12:17 < bridge> ofc, its all hard to prove 12:17 < bridge> forexample if i have a rly good backend idea that speedsu p things 12:17 < bridge> this is not public ever 12:17 < bridge> if i go another company and impl it 12:17 < bridge> its never user facing 12:17 < bridge> ppl would just notice app faster 12:18 < bridge> but u cant proof i stole it 12:19 < bridge> also smart people will figure out a way to do it slightly differently but accomplishes the same thing if it really matters 12:19 < bridge> So maybe it should just be the risk you take as a company? 12:20 < bridge> tbh I guess none of this legislation was envisioned with stuff like software in mind, it's all ancient stuff dealing with things like patents on physical inventions 12:20 < bridge> You can always try to keep employees who could possibly know a lot of stuff about what made your product successful 12:20 < bridge> Pay them more or something idk 12:20 < bridge> That's what they do 12:20 < bridge> Maybe this is was never a real issue to begin with 12:21 < bridge> ofc, this is why meta pays 100M to some employees 12:21 < bridge> Maybe this was never a real issue to begin with 12:21 < bridge> i saw one get into meta ai labs with that amounyt 12:21 < bridge> amount* 12:21 < bridge> some ppl value is extremely high 12:21 < bridge> my dad is listed as inventor for many things that are basically software patents, it's always funny they have to define a huge setup where it's like a machine that performs the software in order to patent it. 12:21 < bridge> top AI people get silly amounts of money 12:22 < bridge> Did you ever see patents for game mechanics? Pokemons capture thing is quite funny too 12:22 < bridge> https://www.reddit.com/r/Salary/comments/1m8nonn/metas_facebook_superintelligence_team_leaked_all/ 12:22 < bridge> I don't think I've seen that one in particular 12:22 < bridge> Meta's (Facebook) Superintelligence Team leaked, all making $10 million plus yearly, with $100M first year for some. 12:22 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1408033538598633482/vd5mc4ksmxef1.png?ex=68a844eb&is=68a6f36b&hm=d0b93c0985c2cf7afbda71cc1b60943da598885ecb2232c2be4d0fa7d85a6626& 12:22 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1408033593124454481/poke1.png?ex=68a844f8&is=68a6f378&hm=3f89e0e066f08cf3018734e1282a15599371b3b232fdd761f1ecb01e2126939a& 12:22 < bridge> didn't someone get $1B over 4 years or something? 12:23 < bridge> nice drawings 12:23 < bridge> this is for the top top top 0.1% ppl on the ai field 12:23 < bridge>