00:10 < bridge> if you ask me, you're too smart of a person to keep using the llm 00:10 < bridge> proven at this point to make you stupider (worse critical thinking abilities) and even cause psychosis 00:10 < bridge> duckduckgo still works just fine 00:41 < bridge> you're too smart of a person to do a web search, go derive everything you need from scratch 00:41 < bridge> have you seen the studies 00:43 < bridge> u can use llms in a responsible and helpful way 00:44 < bridge> some people ask mr chat for every single thing which makes them stupid 00:46 < bridge> yeah pretty sure the act of asking questions in general isn't cursed to rot your brain 00:46 < bridge> so as long as you don't ask the bot questions you wouldn't ask a person it's fine 00:47 < bridge> link? 00:47 < bridge> except sometimes when you'd ask a person you really should ask a person 00:47 < bridge> except sometimes when you'd ask a person you really should ask a person, not a clanker 00:47 < bridge> if you use it as a tool and not braindead copypaste its for sure good 00:47 < bridge> constantly asking a real person stupid questions will also make you act stupider 00:47 < bridge> you can learn a lot even syntax from the examples it gives 00:47 < bridge> it's hard not to become reliant on it to answer your questions 00:48 < bridge> that is the thing 00:48 < bridge> once you accept it's okay you're much more likely to use it more 00:48 < bridge> so i agree maybe it's healthy in moderation 00:48 < bridge> lemme find the link 00:48 < bridge> we need chatbots that will tell you to stop asking stupid questions 00:48 < bridge> yes 00:48 < bridge> or ones that will ask questions in return so (a.) they don't fabricate shit and (b.) you still have to think a little bit 00:48 < bridge> "wdym center a div you brainrotten moron" 00:49 < bridge> https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.08872 00:49 < bridge> idk every time i ask AI something it spits out pure garbage 00:49 < bridge> they were doing a follow up study pertaining to software specifically. i dont know if it's finished 00:49 < bridge> chatbots hallucinate on harder questions so theres no win 00:49 < bridge> Oh having chat write your essays for you is probably the fastest way to ruin your development 00:49 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402423394753974423/image.png?ex=6893dc11&is=68928a91&hm=852f1125e3647838e7ec479656eb283969473eff5232fe7e0745321a981f7c71& 00:50 < bridge> :angeryturtle: 00:51 < bridge> idk what that is but seems very specific to some lib 00:51 < bridge> I guess you could compare it to the phenomenon of getting bad at arithmetic once you start doing *real math* and using a calculator for 12 + 5 00:51 < bridge> angular. 00:51 < bridge> which the chatbot might not have any info on 00:51 < bridge> at least it's somewhat self-aware 00:51 < bridge> 🤮 00:51 < bridge> xd 00:51 < bridge> yeah right 00:51 < bridge> bro there's so much on Angular it'd be impressive if it didn't know it 00:51 < bridge> angulars syntax changes like every 2 months in my experience 00:51 < bridge> that's fair 00:52 < bridge> idk, but i had stuff like this a lot where it recommends use of some function that doesnt exist 00:52 < bridge> or it comes up with a python library that doesnt exist 00:52 < bridge> i remember asking it about an assumed outcome of a function, told me the function is incorrect and gave me a sample in a different lang. 00:53 < bridge> the LLMs i tried during the honeymoon phase were terrible at Qt which is one of the oldest APIs even in use today 00:53 < bridge> but that's because it changed so much over the years it would tend towards old/deprecated things unknowingly 00:53 < bridge> It's becoming just like a real developer! 00:53 < bridge> "I'm sure that function exists!" 00:53 < bridge> "Wait, it doesn't? This library sucks!" 00:53 < bridge> or my co-worker, who is doing visualization for SPS-systems rn (same thing i do currently). 00:53 < bridge> 00:53 < bridge> he's been doing it for a year, and you see him asking GPTee how to fetch data from an endpoint 00:53 < bridge> or my co-worker, who is doing visualization for SPS-systems rn (same thing i do currently). 00:53 < bridge> 00:53 < bridge> he's been doing it for a year, and you see him asking GPTee how to fetch data from an endpoint... 00:53 < bridge> in javascript... 00:53 < bridge> which has fetch();... 00:53 < bridge> :feelsbadman: 00:54 < bridge> or my co-worker, who is doing visualization for SPS-systems rn (same thing i do currently). 00:54 < bridge> 00:54 < bridge> he's been doing it for a year, and you see him asking GPTee how to fetch data from an endpoint... 00:54 < bridge> in javascript... 00:54 < bridge> which has `fetch();` builtin... 00:54 < bridge> or my co-worker, who is doing visualization for SPS-systems rn (same thing i do currently). 00:54 < bridge> 00:54 < bridge> he's been doing it for a year, and you see him asking GPTee how to fetch data from an endpoint... 00:54 < bridge> in javascript... 00:54 < bridge> which has `fetch();` built-in... 00:55 < bridge> hell, he is incapable of writing simple math without AI 00:55 < bridge> and im jobless :kek: 00:55 < bridge> different reasons but jesus 00:55 < bridge> he will develop software for heavy machinery at some point 00:56 < bridge> like - can kill people type of machinery 00:57 < bridge> no but I start flipping tables when I try a language and it doesn't have map and filter and zip and wtf writing a zip is literally impossible because the language doesn't have tuples 00:57 < bridge> 00:57 < bridge> I'm too functional-pilled 00:58 < bridge> it's so weird that so many new languages don't have tuples 00:58 < bridge> just zip with generic struct idk 00:58 < bridge> sounds like you code in zig? xd 00:58 < bridge> or go 00:59 < bridge> like bwuh I'm not making a class or a bunch of loosely typed objects just so I can pair up values for this one function 01:00 < bridge> gdscript makes me pull out my hair, there's no optional type, there's no either type, there's no try-catch, like 01:00 < bridge> this language actually has no proper way of error handling 01:01 < bridge> And there's no statically typed generics so I can't write my own 01:01 < bridge> you either go dynamically typed or you don't get generics 01:01 < bridge> lol i remember reading something about this - gdscript cant even return on success while also handling the error if it occurs iirc? 01:01 < bridge> Ig if I wanted to write a godot project without losing my mind I should just switch to C# 01:02 < bridge> if I wanted to double lose my mind I could use the rust bindings :D :D 01:03 < bridge> The amount of error handling you get to do depends on how nice the particular engine feature you're trying to use is 01:04 < bridge> some things return error values, some things just break lol 01:04 < bridge> and you can't stop certain errors from getting logged by the engine even if they aren't fatal 01:05 < bridge> oh and I haven't found a way to properly interface with the built-in logger either... 01:06 < bridge> maybe I'm just blind on that tho 01:06 < bridge> maybe I'm just blind on that tho, could just be some page of the docs I haven't read properly 01:07 < bridge> duck type 01:07 < bridge> yeah but that's gross 01:07 < bridge> ye use c# if u dont wanna be scripty 01:08 < bridge> yeah... 01:08 < bridge> i like it cuz quick dev speed idk 01:08 < bridge> just barf out code until u find what u need and then type everything after 😹 01:08 < bridge> I thought it was cute so I tried using it 01:08 < bridge> now I'm partially doubting the entire engine 01:08 < bridge> yeah its suuper young imo 01:08 < bridge> i had to do some jank shit to get pixelated lights without downscaling->upscaling 01:09 < bridge> tfw I learned that calling an RPC with incorrect argument types CRASHES THE SIDE BEING CALLED 01:10 < bridge> I didn't test this deeply, but I got a crash like this when a friend connected an older version of my game to my newer server 01:10 < bridge> the client calling the RPC on the server froze the client but also crashed the server 01:12 < bridge> imo rendering at a lower res and upscaling is the correct way to do that... 01:14 < bridge> i didnt wanna do that for my entire game though since i wanted the character to move smoothly 01:15 < bridge> Hmm, I'm kind of a pixel purist so my entire game is rendered at 320 by 240 (even the menus) 01:15 < bridge> so its like you have two nodes on each gameplay entity, one that moves smoothly and one that has a hitbox for anything light etc. related and you write a shader that moves the downscaled portion the fraction of pixel it's offset w the smooth side of things 🤢 01:15 < bridge> yeah its a style thing ig 01:16 < bridge> i wanted precise movement / hitboxes though, more than the size of a pixel 01:18 < bridge> plenty of old games do subpixel movement 01:18 < bridge> I suppose it's evil to have movement the player can't see but imo that's pretty cool 01:19 < bridge> you can use walls to line up precise setups still 02:12 < bridge> I'm never compiling ddnet-rs ever again 02:14 < bridge> xdddd grab a pre built from the runner artifacts 02:14 < bridge> It's like you know what's my problem 02:14 < bridge> Compilation? As you stated? 02:15 < bridge> you gave a genetic problem I gave you a generic solution 02:15 < bridge> you gave a generic problem I gave you a generic solution 02:15 < bridge> This should explain everything 02:15 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402444873252077640/image.png?ex=6893f011&is=68929e91&hm=4be0278b80ad19ed1924e1a2143a7e305ced3fe9ecda32d7e261888821cb2707& 02:15 < bridge> That's just rust in general 02:16 < bridge> The repo allocates a whopping 12GBs easily, with both compilation AND IDE Services! 02:16 < bridge> I ain't touching that repo 02:16 < bridge> bricked the OS twice 02:17 < bridge> Allocating? Are you referring to memory usage? 02:17 < bridge> The repo allocates a whopping 12GBs easily, with both compilation AND IDE Services! 02:17 < bridge> (resulting in an over 20GB storage allocation, which I don't have lol) 02:17 < bridge> sounds like rust analyzer is bullying you 02:18 < bridge> no, as the picture should imply, storage 02:19 < bridge> I'm just sure that it won't handle 1000 libs efficiently 02:19 < bridge> If you don't plan on touching it again, Run `cargo clean` please. 02:19 < bridge> just want to see how much comes out of it 02:19 < bridge> I wiped it clean off 02:20 < bridge> you can guess I had around 100MBs of storage left before it kicked the bucket 02:20 < bridge> and what I sent picture is the aftermath of removal 02:20 < bridge> do the math urself 02:21 < bridge> guys i just learned code takes space 02:21 < bridge> :trollet: 02:21 < bridge> don't you have any bigger drive? xd 02:21 < bridge> my swap is double the size of that drive 02:21 < bridge> So basically, I cannot do shit on that repository, especially when it's that bad to even compile with such large amount of storage dependency... for a simple client. 02:21 < bridge> "simple" 02:21 < bridge> It's.. not just a simple client :justatest: 02:22 < bridge> the other one is 1TB, however that's not where all my coding will go 02:22 < bridge> @jupeyy_keks you hear? it's just a simple client rightttt 02:22 < bridge> simple as in terms of size 02:22 < bridge> bruh 02:22 < bridge> not in terms of complexity 02:23 < bridge> cuz I believe if it has 1000+ libraries after all, I sure fucking think so that it is complex xd 02:23 < bridge> i thought the size was too much for you xd 02:23 < bridge> well, doing nothing essentially amounted to over 10GBs, like ... bruh 02:24 < bridge> Blame rust-analyzers indexing 02:24 < bridge> Did you run it in debug of release 02:24 < bridge> Did you "attempt" run it in debug of release 02:24 < bridge> what?? xd 02:24 < bridge> Did you "attempt" to run it in debug of release 02:24 < bridge> *or? 02:24 < bridge> Ah yes blame someone else :kek: 02:24 < bridge> Phone hard 02:25 < bridge> L 02:25 < bridge> L 02:25 < bridge> L 02:25 < bridge> And yes, the ide symbols can get quite heavy. 02:25 < bridge> Same with build artifacts and debug symbols 02:25 < bridge> btw @louis.place that 1TB of storage is just Windows that has league of legends and davinci resolve on it :troll: 02:26 < bridge> Well I cannot do anything about it now do I 02:27 < bridge> Unless you want me to just, blindly explore all the code in it and pull a "trust me bro" on everything 02:27 < bridge> you can spend like 30€ for a tb nvme 02:27 < bridge> even 1€ is too much 02:27 < bridge> well then don't i guess xd 02:28 < bridge> Idk, rust projects have always been heavy. 02:29 < bridge> How is that Godot, a fully flexible 2D and 3D game engine, doesn't amount to half the size of what this client repo tries to allocate in IDLE 02:29 < bridge> How is that Godot, a fully flexible 2D and 3D game engine, doesn't amount to half the size of what this client repo tries to allocate in IDLE, BEFORE COMPILATION 02:29 < bridge> that.. is just lazy negativity 02:29 < bridge> Good night. 02:30 < bridge> I just don't get it duuuuud ;-; 02:30 < bridge> have you ever seen an enterprise level godot project? xd 02:30 < bridge> gn for u 02:30 < bridge> Yes, 80% of them are Assets, 15% is resource allocation and 5% is code 02:30 < bridge> Yes, 80% of them are Assets, 15% is resource allocation and 5% is code and scene 02:31 < bridge> Let me just say: 02:31 < bridge> it's a self written client by a single individual, and hasn't been FOSS for more than 10 years and worked on by hundreds. 02:32 < bridge> Let me just say: 02:32 < bridge> it's a self written client, server, editor, and account management system by a single individual, and hasn't been FOSS for more than 10 years and worked on by hundreds. 02:32 < bridge> Right, Godot as one of those engines that use like over 100 external libraries and another 100+ internal ones 02:33 < bridge> because... gdscript is interpreted, and you don't have the rest of the development tools for C++ installed? 02:33 < bridge> It's fine to be buffed by a projects size - but please do us a favor and stop comparing sticks to stones and complain that stones are harder 02:33 < bridge> It also has GDExtension and at least 4 more language bridges, but that's besides the point 02:35 < bridge> If it was about complexity, Godot would take it's crown at any time, cuz the type of wizardry to pull on some of the C scripts and make it somehow compatible with the entire structure, is still mind boggling to me 02:35 < bridge> Idk about ddnet-rs' overall complexity, but I assume that there are a dozen of resources for developing in it, not just resources for overall building the clientside of things 02:36 < bridge> So, can I assume that both client side and server side development is in one repository? 02:37 < bridge> what? C scripts? 02:37 < bridge> Alr, enough yapping about this. Sadge that I cannot work on it 02:38 < bridge> :pepeW: ayup 02:38 < bridge> do you mean scripts? how does it work 02:39 < bridge> ddnet-rs, as a rust project, will depend on crates, which are in the form of source code *and* .rlib by the time it gets to you, which is the whole compiled object file as well as additional metadata 02:39 < bridge> indexes are large. im curious what you were using to try and compile it, if you opened it in an IDE & the index got crazy. as far as i understand it's a large codebase too. like melon said the cache there could get large 02:39 < bridge> other languages trying to run another language's code somehow, in some way. And for god forsaken reason, the same goes with a random language trying to run C code 02:40 < bridge> i still don't know what you mean. i am really skeptical that it actually interprets the C. it's more likely that you're expected to compile it yourself, and with that would also come several GB of tools 02:40 < bridge> that you don't have 02:40 < bridge> How is it depend on crates when the repository never mentions a word about it? 02:40 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402451282387669053/image.png?ex=6893f60a&is=6892a48a&hm=4d46c7bc6ab7b594181d0bd95e3a6ce0f28f0c032756fd03a5c698439b32bd65& 02:40 < bridge> because cargo installs all of it, it's defined in cargo.toml under the dependencies section 02:41 < bridge> You think people look at this repo blindly and tell: "Hmmm yes, I should use a crate for it as dependency" 02:41 < bridge> what 02:41 < bridge> cargo is a package manager 02:41 < bridge> that also invokes the compiler 02:41 < bridge> Oh you don't mean externally 02:41 < bridge> ok 02:41 < bridge> it's not completely self contained like lots of c/c++ codebases are. one of the most unanimously agreed upon problems with C and C++ is their lack of official package manager. it makes compilation and deployment much more complicated 02:42 < bridge> at the end of the day, it's no more cumbersome than having to check out git submodules as dependencies, or worse, relying on them already being installed on the system 02:42 < bridge> ok, good to know dude 02:42 < bridge> you should see the CMakeLists.txt for DDNet and then tell me cargo is overkill with a straight face 02:42 < bridge> won't solve my issue tho 02:43 < bridge> no the issue would be solved by using your other drive most likely 02:43 < bridge> idk what your partition setup looks like but 128GB root drive and 1TB reserved for "other things" maybe not ideal 02:43 < bridge> I use Windows on the other drive, as in I use editing software to make videos for someone, that takes a lot of space 02:43 < bridge> package management is great but package management being low effort encourages people to casually pick up libs and that's bad 02:44 < bridge> definitely 02:44 < bridge> in rust it's even worse because transitive dependencies can have different versions of the same dependency 02:44 < bridge> so it could even be linked in there twice, statically 02:44 < bridge> That's what happened with Godot, most of their external libs are outdated anyway 02:44 < bridge> but PGO should eliminate most of that chub for the end user 02:44 < bridge> hence why I abandoned godot 02:44 < bridge> I personally enjoy game engine development so I'm surprised I even started using Godot 02:45 < bridge> otherwise developers seem content enough taking the brunt of that. they need good computers to compile it quickly anyway 02:45 < bridge> though it was kind of fun getting a couple things done instead of just doing engine work... 02:45 < bridge> and then I started adding stuff that are basically engine features... 02:45 < bridge> worked so far, so until it becomes an abysmal issue, I don't worry 02:45 < bridge> yeah I can't be trusted to finish a game ever 02:46 < bridge> And I won't just buy another hard drive, or somehow edit the only partition where I make a profit on, just to try to compile ddnet-rs 02:46 < bridge> So, I won't be able to contribute sadly. sry 02:47 < bridge> Of course you can contribute 02:47 < bridge> Download an artifact, launch, try, write issues 02:47 < bridge> What about practicality? 02:47 < bridge> same 02:47 < bridge> i was always more interested in making the engine than the game 02:48 < bridge> i had a project on github that has no finished anything 02:48 < bridge> basic oop sdl backed c++ engine 02:48 < bridge> dime a dozen but fun project 02:48 < bridge> I'm confused, do you want to contribute to DDNet-rs to learn rust? 02:49 < bridge> I would've liked to see if I could contribute 02:49 < bridge> As a curiousity, not interest 02:49 < bridge> No worries, I called this 'finished' 20 years ago when I was a teen 😄 02:49 < bridge> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAyptdUvAC8 02:50 < bridge> doesn' 02:50 < bridge> doesn't look unfinished 02:50 < bridge> Hahaha thanks 02:50 < bridge> lgtm, ship it! 02:50 < bridge> something that's a bit closer to game programming that I can do is visual effects and general technical artist stuff 02:51 < bridge> that's a way for me to escape the endless loop of architecting systems xd 02:51 < bridge> What editor do you code in? 02:51 < bridge> (unrelated to the message) 02:51 < bridge> (unrelated to the pinged message) 02:52 < bridge> I'm also keen on trying Godot, but unsure if I should just jump straight into Rust 02:52 < bridge> bevy's getting really good... 02:52 < bridge> problem with current game project: there are no fancy shader effects, it's just pixel sprites 02:52 < bridge> so I'm doomed to write anything but gameplay 02:52 < bridge> Visual Studio Code or Zed, depending on using Rust or C++ 02:52 < bridge> SDL3 added their own shader language. you might see about it again 02:52 < bridge> Yeah, I'm loosely following Bevy 02:52 < bridge> WTF 02:52 < bridge> zed is perfect for both 02:52 < bridge> :justatest: 02:52 < bridge> what's the hangup 02:53 < bridge> Yes zed is definitely good for both 02:53 < bridge> It's so much faster xd 02:53 < bridge> oh, speaking of 02:53 < bridge> https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/discussions/35511 02:53 < bridge> updoot? pls? 02:53 < bridge> i could just do it but i'm lazy 02:53 < bridge> Installing plugins, as in Zed, you don't have microsoft marketplace to quickly search / install plugins 02:53 < bridge> And I'm too lazy to manually set them up in Zed 02:53 < bridge> :owo: 02:53 < bridge> you have zed marketplace which has ample plugins 02:54 < bridge> but it comes with clangd support 02:54 < bridge> you literally just need the binary 02:54 < bridge> i think CMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS is on 02:54 < bridge> it ships it's own lsp as a binary even, it works out of the box 02:54 < bridge> yeah and it installs some core plugins automatically when it detects it 02:54 < bridge> i think CMAKE_EXPORT_COMPILE_COMMANDS is on, in ddnet at least? maybe you are supposed to set that on the command line. idgaf i just put it in my lists usually 02:54 < bridge> i guess i missed the problem then 02:54 < bridge> but I use many plugins that Zed won't pick up 02:54 < bridge> for conveniency 02:54 < bridge> oh you just mean lack of support 02:54 < bridge> kinda 02:55 < bridge> yeah there were some things i miss a little bit but it's worth using anyway imo 02:55 < bridge> Updooted, I agree 02:55 < bridge> Just looked into Bevy vs. Godot, see how they're developing recently, but this looks interesting of combining parts of both! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enP4bopQllw 02:55 < bridge> It's perfect for debugging and coding, but it's terrible when it comes to plugins or QoL stuff 02:55 < bridge> btw, if anyone wants to know 02:55 < bridge> ``` 02:55 < bridge> // disable what telemetry can be disabled 02:55 < bridge> "telemetry": { 02:55 < bridge> "diagnostics": false, 02:55 < bridge> "metrics": false 02:55 < bridge> }, 02:55 < bridge> 02:55 < bridge> // disable AI integration 02:55 < bridge> "features": { 02:55 < bridge> "edit_prediction_provider": "none" 02:55 < bridge> }, 02:56 < bridge> "agent": { 02:56 < bridge> "enabled": false, 02:56 < bridge> "version": "2" 02:56 < bridge> }, 02:56 < bridge> "language_models": { 02:56 < bridge> "anthropic": { 02:56 < bridge> "version": "1", 02:56 < bridge> "api_url": "" 02:56 < bridge> }, 02:56 < bridge> "google": { 02:56 < bridge> "api_url": "" 02:56 < bridge> }, 02:56 < bridge> "ollama": { 02:56 < bridge> "api_url": "" 02:56 < bridge> }, 02:56 < bridge> "openai": { 02:56 < bridge> "version": "1", 02:56 < bridge> "api_url": "" 02:56 < bridge> }, 02:56 < bridge> It's just GDRust with Bevy on it 02:56 < bridge> A Rust GDExtension that can use Bevy 02:57 < bridge> Not as simple as it sounds sure, but Bevy is not a core renderer in Godot 02:57 < bridge> Not as simple as it sounds sure, but Bevy is not a core render handler in Godot 02:57 < bridge> Anyway 02:57 < bridge> he literally just said it looks interesting 02:58 < bridge> :feelsbadman: mb 02:58 < bridge> It gets the job done with no visual eyecandy and is super fast while doing so 02:58 < bridge> 02:58 < bridge> I dislike vsc but zed doesn't work properly on windows. I tried fixing it before but the gnu tool chain just frickin fails to generate a data directory :KEKW: 02:59 < bridge> And I don't want msvc wasting 7gb of my harddrive just to compile zed 02:59 < bridge> guys have you forgotten 02:59 < bridge> we already had the best text editor decades ago 02:59 < bridge> So you know how I feel and yet you don't understand why I ranted about ddnet-rs? xdd 02:59 < bridge> I use helix btw 02:59 < bridge> wow that's based 02:59 < bridge> whats bad about vscofe 02:59 < bridge> vscofe, ah yes 03:00 < bridge> You ranted about a project that I know the effort put in 03:00 < bridge> 03:00 < bridge> msvc belongs to one of the world's biggest tech companies 03:00 < bridge> J🤮vaScr🤮pt 03:00 < bridge> I don't say the project is shit lol 😭 03:00 < bridge> You ranted about a project that I know the effort put in 03:00 < bridge> 03:00 < bridge> msvc belongs to one of the worlds biggest tech companies 03:01 < bridge> slowwww, nibbles on my memory and popups that can't be disabled 03:01 < bridge> Your fault for running on 32kb DDR1 03:02 < bridge> >:( 03:02 < bridge> OMG WAIT actually 03:02 < bridge> it's packaged! 03:02 < bridge> in msys2 03:02 < bridge> Teero your PC can't handle ddr5 right 03:02 < bridge> I use too many text editors lol notepad++ notepadqq, vim, nano, VS Codium 03:02 < bridge> maybe we just cry about Rust because what kind of project actually generates enough code to threaten your available disk space 03:02 < bridge> ofc it can't xd 03:02 < bridge> can it handle ddr4 03:02 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402456805577326622/image.png?ex=6893fb2e&is=6892a9ae&hm=fa02dec147ff8b026f6f00b87b87c4562c61119dfc76ad0d86ef66c6015fefcd& 03:02 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402456829782655117/image.png?ex=6893fb34&is=6892a9b4&hm=7c4c3167f4c761ec16d4b060081ec50740fc4e3a9e053695effff40c8b5c5439& 03:02 < bridge> Thanks for the flashbang 03:02 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/i-don%27t-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946 03:02 < bridge> yea i think so, else i would have terabytes of memory 03:02 < bridge> sorry 03:03 < bridge> i have a lot of ddr3 laying around 03:03 < bridge> i forgot ppl hate light mode 03:03 < bridge> I may be able to send you 32gigs 03:03 < bridge> ??? wtf 03:03 < bridge> Depending on my dad, I can ask him tomorrow 03:03 < bridge> ive got a bunch of spare ddr3 lol 03:03 < bridge> im at 16gb rn 03:03 < bridge> i was on ddr3 so long 03:03 < bridge> but im not in need, i have the 256gb swap 03:03 < bridge> LOL 03:03 < bridge> nah bro u need ram 03:03 < bridge> Brother, you are desperate 03:03 < bridge> :KEKW: 03:03 < bridge> You should be atleast 03:03 < bridge> that is a shitload of swap fwiw 03:04 < bridge> what are you doing, like 03:04 < bridge> a what 03:04 < bridge> running huge models and letting them run overnight 03:04 < bridge> He's hacking the neural network of the teeworld 03:04 < bridge> i want amd strix halo 128gb apu anyone wanna fund me 03:04 < bridge> making sure my programs don't run out of memory xd 03:04 < bridge> like never 03:04 < bridge> that's too much man... 03:04 < bridge> i mean, not too much, you'll just never ever use that much 03:04 < bridge> 64 wasn't enough 03:04 < bridge> (he ran out of 64gb before) 03:04 < bridge> i would bet money u were doing something weird 03:04 < bridge> Hey, at least his OS won't crash by a memory leak for sure :troll: 03:04 < bridge> Ah damn phone so slow 03:04 < bridge> well no, i actually do for the tas generation stuff 03:04 < bridge> Teero, send him your blue screens rn 03:04 < bridge> no it'll just get progressively slower isntead 03:05 < bridge> [steamhappy](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1207076645115265044.webp?size=48&name=steamhappy) 03:05 < bridge> big 03:05 < bridge> clearly you underestimate Teero's ability to write memory leaks 03:05 < bridge> better than losing my progress 03:05 < bridge> that's all your code? you've looked into profiling ya? 03:05 < bridge> :justatest: 03:05 < bridge> can't argue with that 03:05 < bridge> as long as the disk space is expendable 03:05 < bridge> less mammary usage 03:05 < bridge> damn that sounds like it sucks lmao 03:06 < bridge> Haven't you heard that's racist? 03:06 < bridge> is it rly that much in memory? i guess for big maps 03:06 < bridge> yea it can be improved to use less memory buttt i would sacrifice cpu performance. according to my eyeballs doing that isn't worth currently 03:06 < bridge> he has to run like 100 different scenarios in parallel for his tas to work 03:06 < bridge> i mean 03:06 < bridge> n amount 03:06 < bridge> Right teero? 03:06 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402457804551487642/Screenshot_20250806-030551.png?ex=6893fc1d&is=6892aa9d&hm=32c4b3ab5e874d79bcdf263d69ea78bf1c260f2c73e839863f1d9fda10e577d9& 03:06 < bridge> more like 100^100 03:06 < bridge> yea 03:06 < bridge> XD 03:06 < bridge> thats an old photo 03:06 < bridge> You can see the pcs cry for help in each wave 03:06 < bridge> 💀 03:07 < bridge> i thought ur tas algo isnt necessarily parallel 03:07 < bridge> wdym? 03:08 < bridge> he has a bunch of them 03:08 < bridge> they do different things 03:08 < bridge> Can they make me dinner 03:08 < bridge> (sry I'm tired.) 03:08 < bridge> i am hungry too 03:09 < bridge> has anyone made a dm1 learner 03:09 < bridge> i'd be interested to see 03:10 < bridge> yea 04:07 < bridge> that is an excellent question actually 04:07 < bridge> thanks 04:11 < bridge> sorry idk without looking at the code. im playing minecraft. surely u understand 04:57 < bridge> yes i play terrafirmagreg for 28 hours a day 04:58 < bridge> 😃 05:22 < bridge> clientid shenanigans 05:45 < bridge> they changed at some point within the last 2 yrs i feel like 05:46 < bridge> it used to simply be lower id = stronger hook, and your character id (not client id) is reset on death 05:46 < bridge> idk for sure 05:46 < bridge> would have to look at prs 06:15 < bridge> morning 06:16 < bridge> good morning bro 06:41 < bridge> gm 07:46 < bridge> @kollpotato: I don’t like fancy prompts they slow me down 08:07 < bridge> 62.122.215.19:8327 Ctgtg cheat 10:02 < ws-client> **** oh thats RUS2 Linear indeed 10:27 < ws-client> **** @MilkeeyCat the packer crashes when you try to pack a message that holds nullptrs as strings. Feature or bug? 10:30 < bridge> looks like skill issue 10:30 < ws-client> **** ok fair 10:30 < bridge> we can add an assert if you want to 10:30 < ws-client> **** but it means you cant use the fancy curley { } init syntax to leave out fields and get empty strings 10:32 < bridge> just add default constructor 10:33 < bridge> I have no other context 10:33 < bridge> but that'd be my guess 10:34 < bridge> the code is in C xd 10:38 < bridge> chillerdragon: do you want to treat null pointers as empty strings? 10:45 < ws-client> **** i think it could be convienient 10:45 < ws-client> **** but i am planning to add builder functions for all messages anyways so the struct { } init syntax is not needed 10:46 < ws-client> **** @milkeeycat https://chillerdragon.github.io/teeworlds-protocol/06/game_messages.html#NETMSGTYPE_SV_TUNEPARAMS tunes are technically sent as int but conceptually floats in the game 10:46 < ws-client> **** what type should we use? 10:47 < ws-client> **** could use floats and do some / 100 and * 100 shenigangs on unpack/pack or sent them as ints which would be more raw 10:49 < ws-client> **** right now this segfaults ``DDNetMsgClStartInfo msg = {.name = "foo"};`` 10:49 < ws-client> **** so one has to do that ``DDNetMsgClStartInfo msg = {.name = "foo",.clan = "", .skin = ""}; `` 10:49 < ws-client> **** which to me seems like useless typing 10:50 < bridge> i like things being explicit 10:50 < ws-client> **** but i get that using nullptr as empty string is morally debatable 10:50 < ws-client> **** ye oke 10:50 < ws-client> **** so wat about the loonie tunes 10:52 < bridge> if they are used as floats, it makes sense to use floats? 10:52 < bridge> <0xdeen> just waiting for a review: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2231 10:52 < ws-client> **** @milkeeycat yea could work i think i did that in pyson 10:52 < ws-client> **** but u know .. floats bad 10:53 < bridge> all my homies hate floats 10:53 < ws-client> **** @0xdeen ?? 10:53 < bridge> they did change that, if your dummy dies you keep strong 10:53 < bridge> 10:53 < bridge> the behaviour is still the result of ClientId order tho. BµmM explained it to me once but i forgor 10:54 < bridge> they did change that, if your dummy dies you keep strong for example (to make playing dummy maps more convenient) 10:54 < bridge> 10:54 < bridge> the behaviour is still the result of ClientId order tho. BµmM explained it to me once but i forgor 10:54 < bridge> they did change that, if your dummy dies you keep strong for example (to make playing dummy maps more convenient) 10:54 < bridge> 10:54 < bridge> the behaviour is still the result of ClientId order tho. BµmM explained it to me once but i forgor the actual reason 10:54 < bridge> they did change that, if your dummy dies you keep strong for example (to make playing dummy maps more convenient) 10:54 < bridge> 10:54 < bridge> the behaviour is still the result of ClientId order tho. BµmM explained it to me once but i forgor the actual reason. Speedrunners utilize it 10:54 < ws-client> **** editingmelonbelike 10:54 < bridge> i just want to spam irc 10:54 < bridge> cant blame 10:55 < ws-client> **** edited 4 times and it still says "forgor" xd 10:55 < ws-client> **** ez typo shaming 10:55 < bridge> that was intentional tho 10:55 < ws-client> **** ah funi 11:00 < bridge> gumo ^.^ 11:07 < ws-client> **** @milkeeycat do want this message or not? https://chillerdragon.github.io/teeworlds-protocol/06/game_messages.html#NETMSGTYPE_SV_EXTRAPROJECTILE 11:07 < ws-client> **** removed in 2015 from tw <:justatest:572499997178986510> 11:08 < bridge> no 11:08 < ws-client> **** oke 11:11 < bridge> chillerdragon: maybe I drank some stupid juice but I'm not sure I like `build_` functions :\ 11:27 < bridge> std::option @chillerdragon 11:28 < bridge> Why not .\_. 11:29 < bridge> it’s like Java it’s great 11:29 < bridge> Urhhhh 11:29 < bridge> Wait why is garbage collection a thing 11:29 < bridge> new FactoryBuilderBuilder().build().newInstance().age(2) 11:30 < bridge> Is it expensive to free memory? 11:30 < bridge> Or is that there's no reference counting and it's finding all the references every GC 11:30 < bridge> Not sure 11:30 < bridge> Allocate is expensive 11:30 < bridge> Not really 11:30 < bridge> Really 11:30 < bridge> If allocation is too expensive you preallocate and chop it up 11:30 < bridge> Like bill gates expensive 11:31 < bridge> - yourself 11:31 < bridge> Also java strings are 11:31 < bridge> Wide 11:31 < bridge> Why are wide strings still a thing 11:31 < bridge> @milkeeycat: otherwise it’s so much code on the user side .-. 11:32 < bridge> Not having a default constructor is very annoying 11:32 < bridge> My class::???? 11:32 < bridge> New create build factorydo 12:17 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki what are you waiting for in #7729 ? 12:17 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7729 12:56 < bridge> https://www.datadoghq.com/blog/engineering/rust-timeseries-engine/ 12:57 < bridge> ChillerDragon i would personally not merge it, its prone to cheats, ill let another decide 12:57 < bridge> i removed the waiting on author 13:35 < bridge> That looks pretty interesting, have you looked at https://spacetimedb.com/ as well? 14:00 < bridge> @ryozuki: how is it prone to cheats? 14:00 < bridge> Not doing /lock does the same 14:06 < ws-client> **** @avolicious i am still nameless on beta :c 14:09 < bridge> merging now 14:10 < ws-client> **** can i turn off CFRM text in entities? 14:16 < ws-client> **** oh its on the texture i see xd 16:01 < bridge> can we merge #10626 ? it happened again 16:01 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/10626 16:28 < bridge> can I not import generated file in engine? 16:28 < bridge> ``` 16:28 < bridge> ../src/engine/gfx/sprites.cpp:5:10: fatal error: game/generated/client_data.h: No such file or directory 16:28 < bridge> 5 | #include 16:28 < bridge> | ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 16:28 < bridge> compilation terminated. 16:28 < bridge> ``` 16:28 < bridge> can I not import generated files in engine? 16:28 < bridge> ``` 16:28 < bridge> ../src/engine/gfx/sprites.cpp:5:10: fatal error: game/generated/client_data.h: No such file or directory 16:28 < bridge> 5 | #include 16:28 < bridge> | ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 16:28 < bridge> compilation terminated. 16:28 < bridge> ``` 16:40 < bridge> Ryo :deen_star: 17:39 < bridge> guess what i read... i read import and generated as one word.. wtf 17:49 < bridge> all I read is JupsTeero 👀 18:10 < bridge> just the normal 500 lines refactoring PR ... 18:37 < bridge> How close is it to editor integration 18:47 < bridge> I already did it in a mock, that close 18:48 < bridge> roby can probably give you a closeness measured in review hours 19:28 < bridge> just makes cheating easier 19:28 < bridge> well 19:28 < bridge> skipping maps easier 19:29 < bridge> doesnt change anything gamewise tho 19:35 < bridge> @patiga pls review https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/10623 19:39 < bridge> Hilfe ich bin in Gefahr 19:39 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402707762462326854/IMG_20250806_193926.jpg?ex=6894e4e7&is=68939367&hm=ff3ab6b33c1025e92be5d9ad74695f48b97bd65309da0232485adf3ca4782019& 19:40 < bridge> My pc won't turn on, classic Linux moment 19:41 < bridge> Good that old kernels work 19:52 < bridge> PR closing wednesday 19:56 < bridge> :kek: 19:56 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402711843256012851/f24b20a4d1acdcce.png?ex=6894e8b4&is=68939734&hm=02eba64f1475b49fe9b44c397b10ea089ae4248fe4e4991baec5df102e42e145& 19:57 < bridge> copy paste kek 20:04 < bridge> Still 80 open :justatest: 20:05 < bridge> It's stale bcs Noone did review 20:05 < bridge> i wonder how much time till someone complains about an issue i closed 20:06 < bridge> Pr was rdy and wanted 20:06 < bridge> oh it didnt take any minute xd 20:06 < bridge> :kek: 20:06 < bridge> looking at comments i dont thin so 20:07 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10248 20:07 < bridge> Idk what comment 20:08 < bridge> heinrich 20:08 < bridge> anyway feel free to open the pr again in a new one if u want 20:08 < bridge> this way it will probs get more attention 20:08 < bridge> (also it had conflicts) 20:08 < bridge> im done for today 20:08 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-17729711691959966457 20:09 < ws-client> **** F @Jupstar ✪ pc ded 20:10 < ws-client> **** closing a first contributers hello world pr is brutal #9806 20:10 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/9806 20:10 < bridge> I think there was just confusion about how it, and the mod works 20:10 < bridge> Since he doesn't play the game 20:10 < bridge> I can reopen np 20:14 < bridge> ChillerDragon see https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/8189 20:15 < bridge> 1year+ looks pretty stale to me 20:15 < bridge> Maybe tag maintainers 20:15 < bridge> It got lost bcs so old 20:17 < bridge> feel free to do it, my message is in general cuz most ppl cant reopen xd 20:17 < bridge> ironically, me doing this brings attention to old matters :) 20:18 < bridge> ChillerDragon, idk what drugs u on, but anyway github doesnt show an option for me to rebase, thats why i asked you xD 20:19 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402717604610838669/image.png?ex=6894ee12&is=68939c92&hm=da8758992a9c7b2512cfed187a99ce4683c55ffba79e429c70514d02ff554038& 20:19 < bridge> oh 20:19 < bridge> its chillerdragon2 lol 20:19 < bridge> trolls 20:20 < bridge> please rebabe mr bob 20:21 < ws-client> **** there was a bug in bob @ryozuki i clicked on the notification too fast i think. It should have already auto rebased based on your comment 🤷 20:21 < ws-client> **** lets wait 15 minutes to give it another try 20:22 < bridge> how do we know this is the *real* chillerdragon... 20:22 < ws-client> **** you dont 20:22 < ws-client> **** !ping 20:22 < chillerbot1> pong 20:22 < ws-client> **** even chillerbot has a 1 in the name 20:24 < ws-client> **** i appreciate your effort to reduce prs @ryozuki but maybe you went a bit too drastic on too many at once. I mean i only checked the ones where i was involved because i have no notifications for entire ddnet repo. 20:24 < bridge> i guess 20:24 < bridge> but if i didnt do this 20:24 < bridge> they would just stay there for more years 20:24 < ws-client> **** But i assume some "bump" comment on a few giving everyone time to react could be better. I am sure some newer contributors can now be forgotten forever and become sad :C 20:25 < bridge> i think this brings attention to them and authors can open new prs which get more attention 20:25 < ws-client> **** yes yes i understand the dilema 20:25 < bridge> see the discussion on the issue heinrich opened 20:25 < ws-client> **** i am afraight some might fall through the cracks and get no attention 20:25 < bridge> i opened issues for the ones i thought were useful xd 20:25 < ws-client> **** now there is no open reminder to ever check them again 20:26 < bridge> no way we are actually asking the only maintainer actually merging stuff to slow down 20:26 < ws-client> **** even if they are not useful i dont think thats a good thing to do for a first contributor to just close 20:26 < bridge> i knew there would be backlash but i am ready for it 20:26 < ws-client> **** thats the thing 20:26 < bridge> that first contributor has had years to answer 20:26 < ws-client> **** i am not worried about the backlash 20:26 < bridge> they arent interested at all 20:26 < ws-client> **** i am worried about the missing backlash 20:27 < ws-client> **** about the stuff that should have been reviewed instead of closed and is now forgotten 20:27 < bridge> imo it's better to have fewer pull requests so more maintainer attention can be allocated to each one. this is the only way to accomplish that, even if there are minor side effects, they can always be fixed 20:27 < bridge> need progress 20:27 < bridge> i am asking you, **please open another pr with ur feature again if you feel like u should** or even better open an issue too 20:27 < ws-client> **** me? 20:27 < bridge> pls comment that here https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10633 20:27 < ws-client> **** no im fine 20:27 < ws-client> **** i did not get hit by you 20:28 < bridge> i didnt close most of ur prs cuz i know ur active 20:28 < bridge> which is why i tagged u 20:28 < bridge> xd 20:28 < ws-client> **** <:poggers2:1008007455936094328> 20:28 < ws-client> **** still no maintainer btw 20:28 < bridge> ur a dangerous entity 20:28 < ws-client> **** if i was maintainer we would already be at 20 open prs 20:28 < bridge> u have bots do rebase ur prs 20:28 < bridge> xd 20:28 < ws-client> **** known botter 20:29 < ws-client> **** is #10633 the new #7777 ? 20:29 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10633 20:29 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7777 20:29 < ws-client> **** hot discussion on which prs to close 20:31 < ws-client> **** im so mad 20:31 < ws-client> **** bob never worked 20:31 < ws-client> **** not a single time 20:31 < bridge> antibob? 20:31 < ws-client> **** no antibob is op 20:31 < ws-client> **** i mean rebase bob 20:31 < bridge> btw i knew heinrich would be the one complaining about this xd 20:32 < bridge> btw we have 750 issues 20:32 < ws-client> **** @kollpotato live since almost a year! hours of development, maintenance and bugfixes!!! Not a single successful execution https://github.com/ChillerDragon/rebase-bob 20:32 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki road to 666 issues 20:33 < bridge> Most can be closed 20:33 < bridge> They're just some random issues with no steps to reproduce 20:33 < bridge> And probably fixed when the issues are years old 20:33 < bridge> if i do that heinrich would complain, but i agree 20:33 < ws-client> **** @kebscs start by closing #10633 if you have balls 20:33 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10633 20:34 < bridge> i maintain the positon that if a issue is important enough it would get created again soon 20:34 < bridge> pay for google ads 20:34 < bridge> :kek: 20:34 < bridge> I don't have the power 20:34 < bridge> rebase bob will get gazillion users trust 20:34 < ws-client> **** trust 20:34 < ws-client> **** so its gonna be worth it? 20:35 < bridge> trust or rewrite in rust 20:35 < ws-client> **** xd 20:35 < ws-client> **** its one of few projects of mine not written in bash but in posix shell 20:36 < bridge> what does bash even do 20:37 < bridge> just a programming language in a terminal 20:37 < bridge> 751 issues now 20:38 < bridge> i commented 20:39 < bridge> if heinrich reopens all prs ill probs step away for some time 20:39 < bridge> xd 20:39 < bridge> from reviewing 20:39 < bridge> :pepe_cry: 20:40 < bridge> if a user that barely reviews stuff and only comments on select issues, but complains when a strong action is taken and sets back progress, its hard to keep motivated 20:40 < bridge> he is a tad pathologically avoidant to outside changes 20:40 < bridge> which is okay if he continued to put in the alternative work himself, but he doesn't 20:41 < bridge> Every time 20:41 < bridge> it seems he only wants to complain at this point 20:41 < bridge> maybe he doesn't have the will to work on ddnet himself, which i understand could be hard, but i feel like it's unfair for him to impede progress just because it's not being done his way 20:46 < ws-client> **** @kollpotato posix shell has less features than bash. For example fancy hash maps and other niceties. 20:47 < ws-client> **** @Ewan are you accusing heinrich of oyism? 20:48 < bridge> i dont know the history 20:48 < bridge> but oy seems inactive maintainer 20:48 < bridge> so i guess 20:48 < ws-client> **** history lesson with chilor 20:48 < bridge> oh so this is officially tear :tear:. It really looked like sweat for me 😓 20:48 < ws-client> **** oy was afk 20:48 < bridge> inactive and authoritative maintainer* 20:48 < ws-client> **** all were mad 20:48 < ws-client> **** history lesson end 20:49 < bridge> so real 20:49 < bridge> i am definitely accusing hein of that 20:49 < ws-client> **** !!! 20:49 < ws-client> **** accuser 20:49 < ws-client> **** how can u 20:49 < bridge> yes 20:49 < ws-client> **** so mean 20:49 < bridge> gotta be straightforward 20:49 < bridge> @mpft oy wanted teeworlds to die, said game is complete 20:49 < ws-client> **** accusing someone of oyism is a serious matter 20:49 < bridge> noo I need you 🙁 20:49 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10633 20:50 < bridge> i can already tell heinrich one way or another will get his way and then disappear for months 20:50 < bridge> that issue got more interaction than the other 100 issues created in the last month 20:50 < bridge> DRAM a 20:50 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki do you think heinrich will vote for me becoming maintainer when i comment :popcorn: emoji into the issue? 20:50 < bridge> i think he treats contributors as some kind of kids that will cry if their pr is closed due to inactivity 20:50 < bridge> Did u guys see genie 3 ? 20:51 < bridge> what a weird way to say hello 20:51 < ws-client> **** fr 20:51 < bridge> u sux 20:51 < ws-client> **** rei is making an entrance 20:51 < bridge> wassup Chiller 20:51 < ws-client> **** elo 20:51 < bridge> not melon, he doesn't deserve it :giga_chad: 20:52 < bridge> rei ever since all the US politics stuff i've been curious to hear if your stance on elon has changed 20:52 < bridge> but that's neither here nor there 20:52 < bridge> ok i'll `git reset --hard` bw 20:52 < bridge> idc of elon, I care of the projects 20:52 < ws-client> **** https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.6843e2bb-57e8-4c17-86b5-984f7f2a62be.png 20:52 < bridge> I believe every PR needs to be labeled before beeing closed, even if the label is Just needs more info or feature not wanted 20:52 < bridge> @reitw u are german right, how is ur hackerman life going, im making a x86_64 kernel btw 20:52 < bridge> Yes 20:52 < ws-client> **** he french 20:52 < bridge> I can confirm 20:52 < bridge> He is german 20:52 < bridge> :KEKSad: I'm baguette 20:52 < bridge> please put that damn thing in a spoiler warning, frickn lightmode 20:52 < bridge> oh french xd 20:52 < bridge> He knows all insults in german 20:52 < bridge> iforgor 20:53 < ws-client> **** for ryo all europeans are the same 20:53 < bridge> also heinrich decicing to not be on discord but reading it 20:53 < bridge> kinda bored of coding, I don't have any ideas at all. + I work too much :KEKSad: 20:53 < bridge> im sure he is reading this 20:53 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402726262123794462/image.png?ex=6894f622&is=6893a4a2&hm=72acf1deff5aabdc45ae1a1fc10a72045f06d09f558f1f2d9025903d2f275cca& 20:53 < ws-client> **** elo heinrich 20:53 < bridge> chiller no, he is european too 😄 20:53 < bridge> I only created "fischlappensohn" word 20:53 < ws-client> **** yes he is 20:53 < ws-client> **** @Jupstar ✪ so? 20:53 < bridge> yeah i work a lot too but i had a spur of coding lately so im doing some kernel coding 20:53 < ws-client> **** black people can be racist too 20:53 < bridge> he is catalan 20:53 < bridge> 😬 20:53 < bridge> SOVEREIGN INDEPENDENCE 20:53 < bridge> yeah I've been seeing a bit what you were posting sometimes, pretty cool 😄 20:53 < ws-client> **** <:bluekitty:346683497919807488> 20:54 < ws-client> **** @Jupstar ✪ oh really is he? 20:54 < bridge> Both 20:54 < bridge> chillerdragon: bash has hashmaps??? xd that seems redundant 20:54 < ws-client> **** xd 20:54 < bridge> sometimes i want to make ddnet prs but i just dont feel like having lot of fun coding in c++ 20:54 < bridge> he was. but now he has spanish gf and forgot he had an internal conflict about that 20:54 < bridge> so i just review and merge 20:54 < bridge> what are they called, associative arrays or something 20:54 < bridge> cuz i love ddnet 20:54 < bridge> and dont want it stale 20:54 < bridge> @kollpotato they're actually cool af and work on references iirc.. 20:54 < bridge> and robyt deserves someone to merge his beautiful prs 20:54 < bridge> he puts lot of work 20:54 < ws-client> **** @kollpotato ``declare -A gaming;gaming["a"]=b`` ah stuff 20:54 < bridge> references? 20:54 < ws-client> **** ah wait i think i butchered the syntax 20:54 < bridge> and me I'm having alot of fun with storage at work still :giga_chad: we've reached 15PB of storage 20:55 < bridge> we need consolidation of this channel's topic 20:55 < bridge> lol 20:55 < bridge> xdd 20:55 < ws-client> **** @kollpotato just simple key value stuff 20:55 < bridge> ChillerDragon, still want to become a maintainer? 20:55 < bridge> i dont know anything about shells at all lmao 20:55 < ws-client> **** not as hyped as before 20:55 < ws-client> **** but ye 20:55 < bridge> why not 20:55 < bridge> i vote for chiller 20:55 < ws-client> **** i was hyped last weekend and the weekend before 20:55 < ws-client> **** was ready to review all prs 20:55 < bridge> chiller if u keep pr count low i vote for u 20:55 < bridge> but i will control ur 0.7 prs 20:55 < bridge> they sussy baka 20:55 < bridge> xd 20:55 < ws-client> **** i had time for ddnet 20:56 < ws-client> **** now i made other plans since i figured maintainer wont happen 20:56 < bridge> time alwyas comes and goes 20:56 < ws-client> **** but eventually i will look into ddnet again 20:56 < bridge> even if u get maintainer 20:56 < ws-client> **** ye 20:56 < bridge> chillerdragon: isnt it better to actually use python/lua for complex scripts rather than using bash? but i guess getting program output and passing them between is nicer 20:56 < bridge> but syntax is ugly af 20:56 < bridge> I have been veery busy mr dragon. Many stressful days 20:56 < bridge> ur asking common sense from an insane person coding wise 20:57 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki also my epic maintainer entrace got butchered by you closing hein prs i wanted to merge xd 20:57 < bridge> xd 20:57 < bridge> is chiller insane? 20:57 < ws-client> **** yes 20:57 < bridge> lua and python rarely make it as easy to interface with the underlying system as bash does. they serve different roles 20:57 < bridge> wtf 20:57 < bridge> we are alike 20:57 < ws-client> **** hot 20:57 < bridge> the way i see it, shell scripting should only be heavily relied on if it's specifically appropriate to the system it's being run on 20:57 < bridge> yeah this makes sense 20:58 <@heinrich5991> ChillerDragon: IRC 20:58 < bridge> rust process api is rly nice 20:58 < bridge> @blaiszephyr when src2 20:58 < bridge> hi hein 20:58 < bridge> If I know him he is probably scrolled waaaay up in this chat 20:58 < ws-client> **** @learath2 dont worry lerato. But let me say this much. I was hyped to do 20 hour review streaks. Then I cried and then i became numb. 20:58 < bridge> :angy: 20:58 < bridge> but using rust for scripts is not 20:58 < bridge> xd 20:59 < bridge> I can rehype you by throwing you a party 20:59 < bridge> wait i want a party too 20:59 < bridge> invite matricks 20:59 < bridge> lmfao 20:59 < bridge> meanwhile in germany 20:59 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402727756642517032/image.png?ex=6894f786&is=6893a606&hm=170d40ced32e9a5fd4a65fb61a34b5b957ca4ff43d157c3cee84b4d5a5ff8810& 20:59 < bridge> trump card 20:59 < bridge> tf is this 20:59 < bridge> My mobile internet volume 20:59 < bridge> I can book 1gb for free everytime I have <1GB left xD 21:00 < bridge> No party for you, you are a fruit 21:00 < bridge> he gets served at the partyt 21:00 < bridge> kinda rude towards a fruit ay 21:00 < bridge> @learath2 do u know if heinrich works in software related work? 21:00 < ws-client> **** @kollpotato i like bash for those tasks. rebase bob is just a simple gh cli wrapper i like calling cli tools from bash 21:00 < bridge> you only have 15GB ? rip 21:00 < bridge> I have like 256GB for 10€/month 21:00 < bridge> Yes, like every other country 21:00 < bridge> But germany is third world 21:01 < bridge> i got 200gb 21:01 < bridge> i barely use 10 21:01 < bridge> Probably, he treats ddnet as some high end corporate project where everything has to be perfect 21:01 < bridge> And it's 4fun open source project where we can revert any prs at any time 21:01 < bridge> lol i said that because its other way around, at my company we try to keep pr count low and fast merge process 21:01 < bridge> And add anything 21:01 < bridge> but wel i dont work at a big corporate 21:02 < bridge> I'm big corporate it's opposite 21:02 < bridge> Everything has to be discussed 20 times before action 21:02 < bridge> No idea, he has always been rather secretive 21:02 < bridge> i think there is some truth to this. we really should not blame heinrich for having high standards. open source projects are very prone to turning to shit because of the abundance of new devs. the issue is that he's so insistent on it without being there to make it a reality 21:02 < bridge> I'd say that's good, at least people can learn from stuff people like heinrich wants to do 21:02 < bridge> still waiting for the motivation to go hiking with heino and fokko 21:02 < bridge> closing old prs is not lowering high standards 21:02 < ws-client> **** @heinrich5991 still here? 21:02 < bridge> Good in what way 21:03 < bridge> its simply making life easier to reviewers 21:03 < bridge> No it's not. This is not a toy. We might not be making money but we still have users that we aim to keep happy 21:03 < ws-client> **** now that i am maintainer i can reopen #7777 right? 21:03 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7777 21:03 < bridge> ryo, i just replied to kebs 21:03 < bridge> unrelated to ur issue 21:03 < bridge> chileeeeer 21:03 < bridge> i've said my piece there already 21:03 < bridge> a ok 21:03 < bridge> idk fast chat 21:03 < bridge> ye 21:03 < bridge> derailed 21:03 < bridge> you can easily learn good code and ask people why they've chosen to do smth like this etc. 21:03 < bridge> im glad i turned this chat active 21:03 < bridge> Yes, my point is you can make users happy without it being absolutely prefect on the backend 21:03 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/rip-bozo-gif-22294771 21:03 < bridge> true 21:03 < bridge> First act as maintainer is to get removed as maintainer. That would be funny 21:04 < bridge> i love seeing idiots smoke cigars with their lungs 21:04 < bridge> ur just supposed to taste it 21:04 < ws-client> **** guys chat is too fast! can someone turn followers only mode on? 21:04 < bridge> LOL 21:04 < bridge> superchat only 21:04 < bridge> I'm not saying to merge every bloat like tclient 21:04 < bridge> what's the thing with heinrich ? he's doing a matricks move ? 21:04 < ws-client> **** whats the matricks move? 21:04 < ws-client> **** you mean oy move 21:04 < bridge> moving away 21:04 < bridge> ah prob oy yes 21:04 < bridge> that would be oy 21:04 < ws-client> **** matricks move is picking new maintainer in 2002 and going afk 21:04 < bridge> It doesn't need to be "absolutely perfect" but if we do spot something that can be improved, it has to be done. We won't merge something 4fun 21:05 < bridge> Exactly 21:05 < bridge> he always finds nitpicks to stall prs, and since maintainers tend to avoid giving a resolution to prs that might not seem to get merged, by either closing them or merging them, they get stale 21:05 < bridge> i specifically avoid merging stuff heirnich comments on in a way it seems not good 21:05 < bridge> because i dont want to deal with it 21:05 < bridge> I didn't say merge 4fun prs, but that ddnet isn't a corporate job 21:05 < bridge> He is still around on github, Idk why he doesn't chat in here anymore, but I'm guessing it's because this place is a little toxic 21:06 < bridge> ah 21:06 < bridge> sad, he's a cool guy 21:06 < bridge> yeah he is cool and rly good tech wise 21:06 < bridge> but idk, he can get annoying in a way about seeming too correct all times 21:07 < bridge> xd 21:07 < bridge> its hard to find heinrich in a spot where he's objectively wrong xd 21:07 < bridge> also i like his secretism, he rly acomplished perfect opsec from my pov, and i met him irl lol 21:08 < bridge> I won't look specifically for it for you, but if you only comment on things that you are 100% sure it might seem that way 21:08 < bridge> But you will only comment once a month 21:08 < bridge> Yeah, you won't find that happening a lot. And if it ever happens he'll usually always just tell you he was wrong 21:09 < bridge> isnt that what makes a good maintainer tho? 21:09 < bridge> if you're not sure you shouldnt approve/comment on something in general 21:09 < bridge> well "not comment" is wrong 21:09 < bridge> not sure how to explain what i mean in proper terms 21:09 < bridge> Good maintainer shouldn't be afraid to be wrong and be in touch with the community 21:09 < bridge> i may be responsible in part for driving him away and i'm sorry if i did do that 21:10 < bridge> Not someone who spawns once a month to close a pr 21:10 < bridge> i was just sick of seeing the same anti-progress things being said and done 21:10 < bridge> which i think can be related to by anyone here 21:10 < bridge> My opinion 21:11 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki go merge #10619 21:11 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/10619 21:11 < bridge> i wont lie sometimes i have the fear of doing smth wrong or merging smth which i shouldnt and i get removed, but then i think, well im not getting paid and im not gaining anything by this so just let it be, and we can always revert prs or reopen 21:11 < ws-client> **** heinrich approved 21:11 < bridge> and i had opened an issue about closing prs the issue would get stale ironically 21:11 < bridge> and ifi had opened an issue about closing prs the issue would get stale ironically 21:11 < bridge> i wont lie sometimes i have the fear of doing smth wrong or merging smth which i shouldnt and i get removed from maintainers, but then i think, well im not getting paid and im not gaining anything by this so just let it be, and we can always revert prs or reopen 21:11 < bridge> I mean u merged spec counter which was 50/50 from maintainers 21:12 < bridge> But most players like it 21:12 < bridge> u can merge it, ddnet doesnt require 2 reviews for simple prs like those 21:12 < ws-client> **** even if it is #7777 related? 21:12 < chillerbot1> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7777 21:13 < bridge> in a healthy team of maintainers, you wouldn't be punished for that anyway, someone else would just step up a little bit so each maintainer individually can put more attention into what they review 21:13 < bridge> i am personally against adding code that is unused by ddnet itself, but imho adding a virtual keyword that doesnt do much in our code is of no concern to me 21:16 < bridge> oh i got a dm warning from heinrich 21:16 < ws-client> **** ono 21:16 < ws-client> **** rip ryo 21:16 < ws-client> **** you will be missed 21:16 < bridge> rip 21:16 < bridge> what?? 21:16 < bridge> for?? 21:17 < bridge> the only time i got a dm warning from heinrich, it was about fussel. we all know how that turned out 21:17 < bridge> i feel like if i share it i might get banned but its not personal at all 21:17 < bridge> it seems spineless and secretive 21:17 < bridge> > I'd like to issue a warning regarding your mass-closure of PRs. please coordinate mass issue/PR actions and get approval for them before execution. this has happened before when you turned on github discussions and converted a lot of things into discussions which took quite some time to undo when it was deemed unwanted. 21:17 < bridge> > 21:17 < bridge> > additionally, I think it'd be nice if you could review the code of PRs you merge more closely, e.g. the one thing I just remember is the case of https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/9488, I think the network message format doesn't really make sense, also the concerns about moderating were left unaddressed 21:17 < bridge> > I talked to @learath2 and he agrees with my warning 21:17 < bridge> i dont care 21:17 < bridge> i am thinking of stepping down as maintainer anyway 21:17 < ws-client> **** bye ryo see you next month 21:17 < bridge> holy shit it's actually happening 21:17 < bridge> man 21:18 < bridge> why do i even bother sympathizing 21:18 < bridge> heinrich, for total transparency, i want to state that you don't own this project 21:18 < ws-client> **** stepping down 21:18 < ws-client> **** is doing matricks after all 21:18 < bridge> im no matricks 21:18 < bridge> im a random 21:18 < bridge> heinrich is the true owner seems 21:18 < bridge> and idk why learath didnt say anything here xd 21:18 < bridge> it's literally open source 21:18 < ws-client> **** ah i red the quote end wrong 21:19 < bridge> if anyone "owns" it at any given time, it's the people putting the fucking work into it 21:19 < bridge> actually such backwards logic 21:19 < ws-client> **** no ryo dont step down 21:19 < bridge> chillerdragon: read* xdd 21:19 < ws-client> **** CATTO 21:19 < ws-client> **** ! 21:21 < bridge> :kek: :kek: :kek: 21:21 < bridge> i answered this to heinrich 21:21 < bridge> > Given the project seems to be governed by seemingly inactive people, i want to step down as a maintainer, i would like you to remove me from the ddnet org in github. 21:21 < bridge> is chillerbum maintainer now nice 21:21 < bridge> Nooo 21:21 < bridge> i think this could use some insight from deen 21:21 < bridge> Now we won't have anything merged 21:22 < bridge> i jsut lost all interest man 21:22 < bridge> xD 21:22 < bridge> how could i not 21:22 < bridge> hein did the same thing to chiller 21:22 < bridge> and to me 21:22 < bridge> wait wtf more drama 21:22 < bridge> see you in a week 21:22 < bridge> oh ill probs chat here, blabber about my os and rust 21:22 < bridge> but i will not review or merge prs 21:23 < bridge> ill just be another user 21:23 < bridge> keep us updated when you write a port so i can natively run malware (.exe files) on your OS 21:23 < ws-client> **** thats sadge 21:23 < bridge> i dont want to deal with this 21:23 < bridge> edlang NOT mentioned :feelsbadman: 21:23 < ws-client> **** <:pepedead:773232467658145822> 21:23 < bridge> I'm out smoking shisha with a friend. What did you need a comment on? 21:23 < ws-client> **** nice lerato vibin 21:23 < bridge> And he's still salty about the spec counter pr? :kek: 21:23 < bridge> i wish i would be fren 21:23 < bridge> After over 6 months? 21:23 < bridge> noything, im just stepping down as maintainer cuz heinrich warned me see above 21:23 < bridge> enjoy ur sisha 21:23 < bridge> learath if we ever meetup can we go shisha and whiskey somewhere 21:24 < bridge> I did agree that you were going too fast, sorry. Idk what else to say here 21:24 < ws-client> **** @melon im in 21:24 < bridge> it's kind of short sighted 21:25 < bridge> Hmm i think most users would rather have active changes rather than everything die out 21:25 < bridge> 21:25 < bridge> But there is the issue that a lot of prs just end up being bloaty 21:25 < bridge> going too fast in pursuit of making the future workload bearable for anyone is a very temporary setback 21:25 < ws-client> **** lets get drunk and merge prs @learath2 21:25 < bridge> It's not a reflection on anything else. I felt your recent cleanup was too quick too rash. That's it, nothing personal 21:25 < ws-client> **** @learath2 what flavor u smokin? 21:25 < bridge> the other option was to stay the same for more years 21:25 < bridge> So I cannot do ID verification with a rooted phone, but with a android emulator xDD 21:25 < bridge> 21:25 < bridge> So stupid 21:25 < bridge> i was the only one keeping prs under 100 21:25 < bridge> These were very old prs with 0 activity 21:25 < bridge> crazy 21:26 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki the other option was to review one by one 21:26 < bridge> i wish there was an official forum where we could share our opinions on this matter 21:26 < ws-client> **** but i do appreciate your under 100 effort a lot @ryozuki ! 21:26 < bridge> Reopening them will bring more attention to the prs than them sitting for years with no comments 21:26 < bridge> i would not be surprised if it worked out to not be in heinrich's favor 21:26 < bridge> Mixed berries, mint 21:26 < bridge> my comments were ind of a review itself, no activity, no interest, close and let author put more interest 21:26 < bridge> why should the project itself do it 21:26 < bridge> i would agree with u if we were paid 21:26 < bridge> idk 21:26 < bridge> weird 21:26 < ws-client> **** @learath2 which city u in even? i cant keep up with u 21:27 < bridge> having the ghost ChillerDragonitis say that, crazy 21:27 < bridge> You can already see with spec counter pr, it was voted in a poll by community but he's still salty about it half a year later bcs it's not the way he wanted it 21:27 < bridge> the implementation was fine, the issue was the spec counter had an edgecase with our moderation 21:27 < bridge> github discussions :kek: 21:27 < bridge> heinrich is the hidden benevolent dictator 21:27 < bridge> this was never truly a community guided project 21:27 < bridge> spec counter moderation could be fixed in the future tho 21:28 < bridge> Moderation thing got resolved quickly after 21:28 < ws-client> **** @melon the implementation wasnt fine irrc 21:28 < ws-client> **** IIRC 21:28 < bridge> official forum would imply action be taken from the result 21:28 < bridge> Would they really? Most people I talk to seem to prefer stability. The PRs being piled up is an issue, but closing them doesn't fix much 21:28 < bridge> maybe not within the next month or few 21:28 < bridge> Istanbul rn, seeing friends and family 21:28 < ws-client> **** @learath2 and whats your main base these days? 21:28 < bridge> how is any maintainer going to look at that list and work up the will to review? they can't. that's why nobody is reviewing 21:28 < bridge> keeping them open does fix it? keeping it closed makes it easier for ppl who actually look at the pr list everyday 21:28 < bridge> I asked tsfreddie about it who implemented the spec stuff and it was fine 21:29 < bridge> its crazy both of u get like "its rash" over a revertible action 21:29 < bridge> And also there's 0 problems with it 21:29 < bridge> I personally fell out of love w the game for the past few years just cause it seems theres nothing new i can explore ngl 21:29 < bridge> 21:29 < bridge> i guess i could go get better at the things i already know, but idk just seems not fun anymore 21:30 < bridge> Idk why you are reacting like this to what is just a warning. We can disagree on things, it's natural 21:30 < bridge> why are you even warning me? why not just have a discussion? Would u have discussed this on a issue on gh that gets lost? let me tell it, it would have a vague discussion and nothing done 21:30 < bridge> Disagree and a warning are different 21:30 < bridge> the warning made me feel childish 21:30 < bridge> so i am reacting yes 21:31 < bridge> i also have a small power that is that im one of the few active mergers 21:31 < bridge> but it doesnt seem worth it 21:31 < bridge> a warning behind closed doors, with a condescending and threatening demeanor, to someone who is putting in volunteer work purely out of passion, interest and good faith 21:31 < bridge> i wonder why that might peeve someone! 21:32 < bridge> it obviously shows we are not on equal grounds 21:32 < ws-client> **** I as a maintainer vote for ryos warning to be liften <:f3:397431188941438976> 21:32 < ws-client> **** liften! 21:32 < ws-client> **** lifted xd 21:32 < bridge> liften 21:32 < bridge> It didn't seem all that condescending, and it was handled in private which I think is better. Idk if I was doing something wrong I'd rather be warned in private 21:33 < bridge> he wasn't doing anything wrong 21:33 < bridge> there's no rule that says "don't merge stuff fast" 21:33 < ws-client> **** its not merged 21:33 < bridge> and a warning from 2 inactive members 21:33 < bridge> Not even merge just 1 click to close/open 21:33 < bridge> yea that too 21:33 < ws-client> **** historic event 21:34 < ws-client> **** anyways enuff irc goofing i will find some dinner 21:34 < bridge> I think this is the bigger issue here. None of you even really think we should have any say over anything to begin with 21:34 < bridge> which will result in heinrich getting his way like always 21:34 < bridge> it is kinda weird that heinrich speaks as if he manages the project while he still has no admin role here, nothing official saying so, etc 21:34 < bridge> maybe if the grounds for warning were better understood by maintainers you wouldn't have this issue. sadly the admins are not ready for the discussion required to establish said rules 21:34 < bridge> it would require addressing their shortcomings and making the consensus that they are wrong even more visible 21:35 < bridge> so this is the fate of ddnet? 21:35 < bridge> a say in how to manage active prs from peopel who dont interact with prs? 21:36 < bridge> i rly didnt think i did smth that outrageous, **closing years old prs** but it seems like i did 21:36 < bridge> I've been merging recently, heinrich has too. And you too are just very recently active 21:36 < bridge> Not like everyone was very active like 5 months ago 21:36 < bridge> ive been steadily reviewing prs every week or so 21:36 < bridge> thats unfair 21:36 < bridge> maybe i am unjustly lumping deen and robyt3 in with the group there 21:37 < bridge> > I've been merging recently, heinrich has too 21:37 < bridge> i do not believe you 21:37 < bridge> maybe you could find a few issues and prs to say otherwise 21:37 < bridge> but as a whole, ryo has been doing more than you both have for at least a few months 21:39 < bridge> @ryozuki chill 21:39 < bridge> 21:39 < bridge> Just set a timeout 21:39 < bridge> 21:39 < bridge> "Is pr still relevant? else i close in ~3 weeks" 21:39 < bridge> prs were years old 21:39 < bridge> I debugged chillers weird ci issue just a week ago, cmon. If you said I was inactive 2 months ago I would 100% agree with you 21:40 < bridge> Yes but then they at least have a chance to answer. For my pr I'd have probably ignored it and said nothing 21:40 < bridge> As idc 21:40 < bridge> This is literally being inactive :kek: 21:40 < bridge> they had years to do stuff, but i guess 21:40 < bridge> Like I actually do not understand a warning that was written completely matter of fact has escalated so much. We thought you were going a little too fast. Is that a crime to say 21:40 < bridge> I'm not going to act like I've been on top of the issues and PRs myself, but it's still less than Ryo, and in a situation like this, that's where precedence lies imo 21:41 < bridge> u can just say that in the github issue about that, its weird to send me a warning like this for me atleast 21:41 < bridge> heinrich's Discord role is an Admin role. 21:41 < bridge> Heinrich has been part of the teeworlds team for more than a decade, and has been an Administrator and Maintainer for DDNet for a long time as well. 21:41 < bridge> i dont think a Discord role should determine his stance within the Community 21:41 < bridge> Ok, this is actively ruining my night. I actually feel uncomfortable and this feels very hostile 21:41 < bridge> Why is melon #1 hein glazer 21:41 < bridge> He barely talks here though 21:41 < bridge> but i also kinda irritates me it comes from inactive people 21:41 < bridge> Every time there's any discussion melon says "but he did a lot in the past" and doesn't take any criticism 21:41 < bridge> because i've yet to have a discussion with Heinrich where he was wrong. I respect his knowledge 21:42 < bridge> Let's talk about this tomorrow. I'm making my friend uncomfortable too 21:42 < bridge> its not about being wrong or right, its literally just abt presence sometimes 21:42 < bridge> i also dont see where i agree with his actions 21:42 < ws-client> **** @ryozuki you being on matricks gh profile is so badass lmao 21:42 < ws-client> **** https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.35918e4b-70b9-48ed-9c5b-11978b1ca3b7.png 21:42 < bridge> i have been part of ddnet for more than a decade too 21:42 < bridge> someone put it to a real vote with a real outcome so we can stop bickering 21:42 < bridge> but io am still here, active 21:43 < bridge> xd 21:43 < bridge> epic lore 21:43 < bridge> he came to discord voice 21:43 < bridge> You're yet to have any discussion bcs he's so inactive 21:43 < bridge> if u walk away tonight and avoid addressing it again, that literally just proves the point 21:43 < bridge> You can't be wrong if you don't talk 21:43 < bridge> i had my fair share of discussions with him, trust me ^^ 21:43 < bridge> yeah 21:43 < bridge> i am more prone of being wrong, or merging smth someone dislikes, because i am more active than you 21:44 < bridge> u will just casually appear when u notice smth u dont like 21:44 < bridge> make me god admin, I have the necessary distance 👀 21:44 < bridge> That doesn't mean he's always right 21:44 < bridge> never said he is 21:44 < bridge> That's the point of having multiple maintainers so everything can be discussed 21:44 < bridge> this is going nowhere 21:45 < bridge> action is needed 21:45 < bridge> Youre treating hein as know it all with always the last word 21:45 < bridge> talk is not that 21:45 < bridge> you are a bit wrong though, u wouldnt be entirely correct if u have so much ppl disliking you, and humans arent perfect, he is not entirely right or wrong, but he has the power to make his "rights" become the de facto for the project 21:45 < bridge> "but he did a lot in the past" is exactly that 21:46 < bridge> i'm being pulled out of context here, please read the message i replied to. 21:46 < bridge> i also spoke from my personal experience, not an objective de-facto in any way 21:46 < bridge> We aren't speaking about your experience 21:47 < bridge> That's good you had it but it's a doffent situation 21:47 < bridge> anyway, i am not heinrich so i cant impose my way of doing things even if pushing them partially, so ill become inactive maintainer wise, you can feel free to become active to replace me or find someone willing to spend time on a project that feels stale and inactive pr wise. 21:47 < bridge> 21:47 < bridge> If i were a new contributor and saw year old prs, unless you are as big as llvm, i would say u do not care much about prs. and i probs would leave 21:47 < bridge> When i joined we barely had over 30 open prs 21:47 < bridge> And for every thing hein does you always say but he was active in the past or whatever 21:48 < bridge> I think the problem is just we have too few maintainers. I would love to see more maintainer added and say require two approve before merge 21:48 < bridge> What is this action you want? Let's just be transparent here. Newer purple names dislike how we run the project. There is no need to be obscure. 21:48 < bridge> 21:48 < bridge> Yes progress is slow, intentionally so. We prefer stability over novelty. Kebs likes his features being merged quickly because it can be unmerged. We just don't agree with that way of doing things 21:48 < bridge> I can look up pr from months ago where I got discouraged by hein to do any work and melons response here was also he's a good guy he was nice in past 21:48 < bridge> @learath2 thats unfair point, u dont even review or merge robyt prs which are qol and fixes stuff, his prs get months old if not for me lmao 21:49 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/imnota-cat-fubuki-gif-18573529 21:49 < bridge> progress is not itself slow, u are simply not active there 21:49 < bridge> and using it as an excuse now imho 21:49 < bridge> I literally merged like 4 robyt3 prs in this month 21:49 < bridge> last month he had 48 prs 21:49 < bridge> iirc 21:49 < bridge> am I seeing anti-government statements here? 21:49 < bridge> good job 21:50 < bridge> Is there revolutionary sentiment to be weeded out? 21:50 < bridge> ok idk if he had 48 prs or commits but he has way more 21:50 < bridge> anyway 21:50 < bridge> You have 15 merges in a year, Roby himself made 50 prs in a month idk what your point is 21:50 < bridge> pointless discussion cuz this wont change 21:50 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402740754610389174/image.png?ex=689503a1&is=6893b221&hm=30656456245dcd5b3e66192fedf9c75abda8cd3f3812eca5ab2c460d0eda37aa& 21:51 < bridge> So, be honest. Tell me what you want 21:51 < bridge> just one page 21:51 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402740835811987456/image.png?ex=689503b4&is=6893b234&hm=977c49c6b932b1822d53510a48a99fd879ad6de5100adc3b412e01fdfaac801e& 21:51 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402740886525444176/image.png?ex=689503c1&is=6893b241&hm=b9c8238bcdc58528c2cdb502faf56e0146ec1f17c0e6ecb042c4e1d06275e16a& 21:51 < bridge> I want all maintainers to step down and see the world burn. 21:51 < bridge> drama heating 21:51 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402741013625438399/IMG_20250806_215137.jpg?ex=689503df&is=6893b25f&hm=e8c76db9ae50577ceffc9c333c96b71e927fa4845bbf54d41968ce4b99985b17& 21:52 < bridge> guys every merge/review is valuable, even if you just do 1 a month. Keep in mind we all have a RL and some have more or less time. 21:52 < bridge> This is the point, they just don't really want to say it for some reason 21:52 < bridge> Nothing, you're a nice guy, but saying someone is active bcs he merged 0,1% of prs is stretch 21:52 < bridge> Nothing, you're a nice guy, but saying someone is active bcs he merged 0,1% of prs is a stretch 21:52 < bridge> context. 21:52 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/10445#issuecomment-3024242742 21:52 < bridge> 21:52 < bridge> > his comment? doesnt sound passive aggressive at all :o 21:53 < bridge> @learath2 I want this 21:53 < bridge> He does sound passive aggressive and it's same tone as in the just a warning 21:53 < bridge> if u add that we wont have prs merged at all 21:53 < bridge> Everyone here has active times and downtimes. The only person that is close to full time active is Robyt 21:53 < bridge> let's find solution to the issues and just stay calm 21:54 < bridge> i know the solution, i just dont do anything, its easy 21:54 < bridge> facts, there is nothing wrong with inactivity, i think some ppl here are missing the point 21:54 < bridge> OK that's why there's multiple maintainers 21:54 < bridge> And you're warning them for doing it 21:54 < bridge> When they're doing it in good faith 21:55 < bridge> look at the teeworlds repo and what happens when there's only a single maintainer who doesnt care (apart from roby and heinrich being able to merge securityfixes) 21:55 < bridge> im sorry i get a bit heated sometimes, ill just think coldly that i gain nothing from this, or from merging/revewing stuff, but well who wouldnt about something they care deeply about, its just sad to see ddnet become the teeworlds i despise maintainerwise 21:55 < bridge> I am willing to help you label issues if this helps 21:55 < bridge> look at the teeworlds repo and what happens when there's only a single maintainer who doesnt care (apart from roby and heinrich being able to merge securityfixes afaik) 21:55 < bridge> So why are you siding with hein when it's exactly what happening right now 21:58 < bridge> am i 21:59 < bridge> anyway, this is more of a discussion for a private talk - not a public chatroom. 21:59 < bridge> 21:59 < bridge> i'll watch some DnD. 21:59 < bridge> I want a democratic system to be introduced without anyone having the last word on any issue and pr. how does rust do that? 21:59 < bridge> Yes 22:00 < bridge> rust has different groups of experts with more authority on different parts of project, but rust also has 1000x the amount of contributors and reviewers 22:00 < bridge> also features go through a RFC that gets discussed 22:00 < bridge> what projects do have less maintainers? gitea? 22:02 < bridge> Rust does that by leaving the cargo fmt issue open for 7 years 22:03 < bridge> rust only has 800 prs open 22:03 < bridge> ngl just write good code bug maintainers and you'll probably get your stuff in 22:03 < bridge> ddnet, barely with a team of 3 , 110 22:03 < bridge> guys when will Firefox follow XDG conventions? 22:03 < bridge> Also the drain_vec pr I've been waiting on has been open for 10 years now 22:03 < bridge> but would be nice to go and clean up the issues and prs and have some sort of roadmap for good features to implement 22:04 < bridge> That worked for me, Roby is the best 22:04 < bridge> you can do it already if u want and have the will to spend time on that 22:04 < bridge> Roadmap would be super helpful actually imo 22:04 < bridge> But if something is not in Roby's expertise there wasn't anyone other than Ryo 22:04 < bridge> rn its just ppl making qol fixes and small features 22:04 < bridge> itd be nice to have ppl collaborate on larger features that both players and maintainers would actually want 22:05 < bridge> u cant, we have no maintainers at all 22:05 < bridge> u cant force maintainers to code what u want 22:05 < bridge> they are volunteers 22:05 < bridge> Larger features are in prs but are stalled bcs no discussion from maintainers 22:05 < bridge> we cant even agreee on opening issues before features 22:05 < bridge> That's why there's only small fixes 22:05 < bridge> Anything bigger is a waste of time currentlt 22:06 < bridge> but well, since learath wants slow progress, me not reviewing or merging is favorable to that opinion, so it aligns with the project that i leave 22:07 < bridge> that's just one opinion, nit a consensus 22:07 < bridge> not 22:07 < bridge> it is the opinion of both learath and heinrich, the ones who actually decide on stuff like this most of the time, because other maintainers dont have such authority 22:07 < bridge> there ws never consensus in this project 22:07 < bridge> idk, should just make the best with the level of activity we have rn 22:07 < bridge> 22:07 < bridge> promote transparency and a clear sense of direction instead of arguing type shi 22:08 < bridge> i also even get called back by heinrich always when i ask the actual players if they want stuff 22:08 < bridge> Let's get that discussion going then. Maybe lets plan out 2 new big features for the next 6 months. We need to find people willing to code them though 22:08 < bridge> he always says they dont know what htey want and such 22:08 < bridge> it rly sets me back 22:09 < bridge> What about existing pr features? 22:09 < bridge> Tune lock? 22:09 < bridge> Tune lock is just such a confusing concept. Is it really actually useful? It feels like a nasty hack to achieve some effect 22:09 < bridge> take their authority and have all maintainers have the same authority. given the expertise of specific maintainers, it is a given that others will follow their lead in their field of expertise. 22:10 < bridge> It opens up a lot of map ideas with little downside 22:10 < bridge> Or no downside 22:10 < bridge> Just clearity on what tunes u get 22:10 < bridge> Just clarity on what tunes u get 22:11 < bridge> anyway i left the team myself now, cuz i know myself and i dont want to waste my time anymore 22:11 < bridge> have a good night 22:11 < bridge> good night Ryo, take care ^^ 22:11 < bridge> We will get you back, my dude 22:11 < bridge> i love ur blog ryo 22:11 < bridge> pls post more 22:12 < bridge> with force 22:12 < bridge> on may the 4th 22:12 < bridge> probably best to have it in some issue or forum type post if you think it's actually a good idea 22:13 < bridge> maybe a gh issue every half year or so 22:13 < bridge> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259356 22:13 < bridge> oh my god it might be finally happening? 22:13 < bridge> And the feature is literally accepted in gh discussion for ages 22:14 < bridge> Do we need discussions for discussions 22:14 < bridge> that is a 21 year old Firefox issue, and it's like a really basic thing too lol 22:14 < bridge> For every maintainer disagreeing? 22:14 < bridge> Currently @robyt3 and me are planning render generalization and making the editor use render layer 22:14 < bridge> that is an open 21 year old Firefox issue, and it's like a really basic thing too lol 22:15 < bridge> the idea was accepted, the implementation details idk i didnt like (from my mapper pov) 22:15 < bridge> I never directly planned it out with him tho, I am implementing and doing a mock, he is reviewing :kek: 22:16 < bridge> Not really, unless any maintainer heavily disagrees it won't be blocking 22:18 < bridge> So why is the pr so stale 22:18 < bridge> The previous fokkonaut implementation too 22:19 < bridge> I don't like the way it achieves the goal. I wouldn't exactly block it but I'm not really enthusiastic about it either 22:19 < bridge> Makes sense, but here are others 22:20 < bridge> I would guess the others feel so too. Idk what to tell you, I think it'll be one more feature that just won't get all that much use. Especially when a mapper directly just told you it's not great 22:20 < bridge> wait i meant the idea is good but the tile implementation isnt clean in the way i wish it would be 22:20 < bridge> 2 mappers here told me they would love it 22:21 < bridge> I still want to review this, reminder that we have tune zone enter text which is useful here 22:22 < bridge> A tune lock? I thought you meant the implementation of a tune lock to achieve the effect isn't great. Mb 22:22 < bridge> So maybe just getting them to make a map around it would be a great start 22:22 < bridge> I would be more inclined to merge it if there was a release quality map for it 22:22 < bridge> For it to not be merged? 22:23 < bridge> My work goes to waste so we want waste mappers time too 22:23 < bridge> Ok, then it doesn't get merged. Idk what to tell you. I feel it won't be used. You tell me it will be, but neither you nor the mappers want to spend time on it 22:24 < bridge> It only confirms to me that it's unlikely to get used 22:24 < bridge> I can't map, mappers aren't tech savvy to use github and won't spend time for uncertain feature 22:24 < bridge> There wasn't a new gameplay feature in how long 22:24 < bridge> not like things need to be super polished for testing 22:25 < bridge> I'd trust a mapper to make more interesting test parts than devs 22:25 < bridge> or at least ones that flow better 22:25 < bridge> even if they're just test parts 22:25 < bridge> The feature is already ready. There is no need for the mappers to code anything 22:25 < bridge> Merging a feature that is not likely to be used or has exploits not found due to lack of testing goes on maintainers' and admins' time instead 22:26 < bridge> Downloading it of github etc 22:27 < bridge> Idk there's no win here with how it's all structured 22:27 < bridge> Small fixes and qol it is 22:27 < bridge> yo target switches will be cool once i get time to finish it 🥺 22:28 < bridge> @essigautomat did u still want to do the sounds for it btw 22:28 < bridge> There is a clear way to get this one merged. 22:28 < bridge> I have to map myself or find someone to make it 22:28 < bridge> Which idk anyone and I can't map so there's no way 22:28 < bridge> I'm sure louis will deliver a map with his target switches, riight? 22:29 < bridge> You just told me 2 mappers thought it would be a good idea. They might be a good starting point to contact 22:35 < bridge> oh yeah :justatest: 22:36 < bridge> !remind me 08:00 tomorrow 22:39 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402752854841888968/image.png?ex=68950ee6&is=6893bd66&hm=18727537d07d0328fb9c82636c4d27dae9297923b7f2d24e362d7ceeafd5c283& 22:39 < bridge> rip 22:39 < bridge> @learath2 Hecta is gone for now 🙁 22:41 < bridge> bruh tune lock requested since 2022 22:41 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402753489460920340/image.png?ex=68950f7d&is=6893bdfd&hm=84c85a182bddbb913179cbea4007eaad1d3a68e96d1ea09657d43a2982e212df& 22:41 < bridge> and maintainers still cant decide 22:41 < bridge> theres definetly nothing wrong 22:41 < bridge> My theory is that we gonna get GTA6 before GTA7 22:51 < bridge> No offense but it's like 4 people. Only 1 of them a mapper 22:52 < bridge> It's not can't decide. Get me a map and I'll merge it 22:55 < bridge> i know you're siding with heinrich in this case but you've proven way less obstructive to progress than he has. specifically what I am requesting is some sort of consensus on whether heinrich should have his authority over new PRs lessened or removed. 22:55 < bridge> you can usually be persuaded because you continually have a little stake in the project. he is completely checked out and still insists 22:57 < bridge> 4 is better than zero but ryo and kebs have a great point. i'll reiterate that what you do is appreciated, but we should not have to attribute slow development to it being "the way it is", we really need to be more insistent on tests if stability is the factor 22:57 < bridge> almost no incoming PRs come with unit tests. 22:57 < bridge> can try but its a pain 22:58 < bridge> before merging theyr should either write a test or make a good case to why a test is not needed for the pr 22:58 < bridge> before merging they should either write a test or make a good case to why a test is not needed for the pr 22:58 < bridge> the tune locks are fun to play around with 22:59 < bridge> i hate tests 22:59 < bridge> also theres not a good testing framework which is the bigger issue imo 23:00 < bridge> I dont think testing matters much unless its for physics changes, for which we basically have no testing framework 23:01 < bridge> make me a maintainer 23:01 < bridge> i have one commit 23:02 < bridge> potatos have no rights 23:02 < bridge> 🥔 23:04 < bridge> maybe you can cook up a map ? :owo: 23:04 < bridge> i see you have made the great map "2025" 23:04 < bridge> most of them are just roleplay gimmicks to be honest, making actual gameplay with it... hmm 23:04 < bridge> maybe as a quirk for dummy maps 23:05 < bridge> i'll play around with it tomorrow 23:05 < bridge> (i was moral support through 95% of it) 23:05 < bridge> do I count as a mapper? 23:06 < bridge> also tune locks would then introduce a new tile, rendering them as the default tune_zone would be annoying if they're actually incoorperated within the gameplay 23:06 < bridge> 👎 👎 👎 👎 23:06 < bridge> also tune locks would then introduce a new tile, rendering them as the default tune_zone would be annoying if they're actually incoorperated within the gameplay (backwards compat or smth) 23:06 < bridge> racist 23:07 < bridge> vegetable 23:07 < bridge> How do other new tiles did this before? 23:08 < bridge> i think the same thing happened with the weaponshields 23:08 < bridge> I just got randomly merged by deen 23:08 < bridge> Shield is an entity so it's different 23:08 < bridge> Entities have to be shown, tiles have design 23:08 < bridge> I agree, in an ideal world we would have tests for almost everything already so adding tests for new features would be easier; and conversely not adding tests would be harder to excuse. I think all new map tiles should definitely also have coverage in the integration test before being merged. The script should allow adding more tests relatively easily. I think the "smoke test" is complex enough as is and we should rather test behaviors individually 23:08 < bridge> true, mb. mixed them up 23:09 < bridge> tho that was an annoyance if you played on an older client with missing weaponshield entities 23:09 < bridge> tho that was an annoyance if you played with missing weaponshield entities 23:09 < bridge> tho that was an annoyance if you played with missing weaponshield entities - **gosh i should reread what i type before pressing enter** 23:10 < bridge> my game assets don't have weaponshields :( 23:10 < bridge> is there a guideline on the wiki for writing unit tests? i know a lot of that developer info may be slightly less than up to date but it should be better than nothing 23:10 < bridge> i don't think the average outside contributor will always grasp why testing is important 23:11 < bridge> it's about momentum as much as it is about making sure the specific change is stable 23:11 < bridge> There's only a checkbox on PRs, but it's not in the contributing guide yet I think 23:11 < bridge> For new `base` functions tests are mostly required 23:11 < bridge> How do we test tiles though 23:12 < bridge> roby, were weaponshields merged as they are now with the knowledge that older entities are missing them? was there a discussion about that? 23:12 < bridge> There's coverage map only 23:12 < bridge> Probably add a map for every tile individually 23:13 < bridge> Or test combinations of tiles in one map by configuring it differently with settings if that's possible and useful to avoid duplicate code/map :thonk: 23:13 < bridge> tune_locks have a similar impact on gameplay, and if older/custom entities are missing them that may result in a lot of frustration in newer maps that utilize them. 23:13 < bridge> Idk if that can be resolved for tiles 23:14 < bridge> Maps do have design and playing with full overlay entities is optional 23:14 < bridge> i wish we could just ship newer entities to older clients with a `patch` button of sorts xd 23:14 < bridge> that'll depend on the tile but in concept you want to write a test that you can throw a lot of different inputs at and still get the expected result. maybe give varying tee velocities, strong/weak relationships if it's related to multiple tees, i'd kinda need a more concrete scenario but therein lies the challenge 23:14 < bridge> You mean https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/4728 ? I don't think I was involved in this 23:14 < bridge> this is why so many projects don't test, and then they die out because the maintenance cost gets so high because everything is subtly broken 23:15 < bridge> i'm sorry if this request implies we have to use critical thinking abilities moreso than maybe we are used to 23:15 < bridge> testing propaganda 23:16 < bridge> i'm sorry that this request implies we have to use critical thinking abilities moreso than maybe we are used to 23:16 < bridge> > This is in my opinion another reason to let the map overwrite the game assets. 23:16 < bridge> > I will open an issue for that... 23:16 < bridge> 23:16 < bridge> codedev, where issue :( 23:17 < bridge> u can 23:17 < bridge> Just overlay the portion of their existing entities w a new 64x64 23:17 < bridge> https://app.codecov.io/gh/ddnet/ddnet/tree/master/src?flags%5B0%5D=unittests 23:17 < bridge> Only 97.73% of our testing code is tested :justatest: 23:23 < bridge> so it seems it was pretty much accepted that we cant stay compatible to everything 23:23 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402763960788451368/image.png?ex=6895193e&is=6893c7be&hm=52c2b7e3e9b9ffed5432a442b333da08095da2e364d58411478a8b3ae699f7d7& 23:24 < bridge> anyway, i can see tune_lock being utilized ingame - i'll see if i can make a testmap for usecases i find 23:26 < bridge> chillerdragon: i found a way to zooz on fng 23:29 < bridge> yippie 23:42 < bridge> for reference 23:42 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1402768941423788183/image.png?ex=68951de1&is=6893cc61&hm=ac984ba9a740021770c915e66833c032076a0e96ec63473b734ade6c4c273a59& 23:43 < bridge> the coverage is actually not awesome 23:53 < bridge> yea theres no backwards compat for tiles 23:53 < bridge> only for entites 23:54 < bridge> live freeze tile doesnt show up 23:54 < bridge> yea theres no backwards compat for tiles bcs of map design