00:03 < bridge_> very good issue IMO 00:03 < bridge_> it should be configurable, like all things 00:05 < bridge_> I honestly feel like that was the default once xD 00:05 < bridge_> yeah arrow sjould be above 00:05 < bridge_> they were once when i did it by mistake, before that they were below 00:05 < bridge_> or maybe even better, beside the tee based on which way its moving yk 00:05 < bridge_> it should be able to be placed below also, idk 00:05 < bridge_> yeah that too 00:06 < bridge_> configurations are bad 00:06 < bridge_> just give a million options xd 00:06 < bridge_> pls find a good default 00:06 < bridge_> wtf why 00:06 < bridge_> Best is no nameplates or directions 00:06 < bridge_> ofc good default 00:06 < bridge_> 100% experience 00:06 < bridge_> but still option 00:06 < bridge_> @fokkonaut 00:06 < bridge_> youre very adament that nameplates have no layout shift, just curious why. some people prefer them above 00:06 < bridge_> i would pose that most people have their font sizes much below the defaults (even negative now) so theres not much hope getting any consistent positioning between clients 00:06 < bridge_> @fokkonaut 00:06 < bridge_> youre very adament that nameplates have no layout shift depending on options, just curious why. some people prefer them above 00:06 < bridge_> i would pose that most people have their font sizes much below the defaults (even negative now) so theres not much hope getting any consistent positioning between clients 00:08 < bridge_> config is why this client is so good 00:09 < bridge_> i do-est agree, there is no way sensible defaults are possible 00:09 < bridge_> plus you have like a bajillion people that will crucify you if you change anything 00:09 < bridge_> for example the font sizes are way too big today, but might be fine with lower res screens 00:09 < bridge_> everyone plays different 00:10 < bridge_> you can't just make assumptions for the user, this is an open-source game 00:10 < bridge_> for example the font sizes are way too big today, but were with lower res screens 00:10 < bridge_> for example the font sizes are way too big today, but were fine with lower res screens 00:10 < bridge_> dont make people rebuild source, this is how you get so much disparate features across clients 00:10 < bridge_> not enough flexibility xd 00:10 < bridge_> minirant over 00:11 < bridge_> open source makes it easier for users to get whatever config they want 00:12 < bridge_> the base client should be minimal with great default values and not 200 options for trivial things 00:12 < bridge_> i agree the nameplate font is too big by default 00:12 < bridge_> then change the defaults, but having options instead of magic constants is fine 00:12 < bridge_> its not options instead of constants, its options on top of constants 00:13 < bridge_> the only thing gained from minimalism in a sense is ease of use. if a user never touches a setting, they're not experiencing any complexities 00:13 < bridge_> there's development positives to minimalism too 00:13 < bridge_> development and bugfixes move faster 00:13 < bridge_> so if there is a good default, the complexity comes at no cost to the user. yes to the dev I understand 00:13 < bridge_> but I still argue most settings have little overlap and we need unit tests anyway probably 00:14 < bridge_> maybe I'll get shot here for saying unit tests though 00:15 < bridge_> do u use base ddnet client? 00:15 < bridge_> yep 00:16 < bridge_> well what do you mean 00:16 < bridge_> i have a lot of config 00:16 < bridge_> just curious i meant using denet instead of t client or smth 00:16 < bridge_> just curious i meant using ddnet instead of t client or smth 00:17 < bridge_> anyways i think most maintainers are anti config settings which im glad for 00:17 < bridge_> i don't think client competition is bad or anything but if ddnet had non-default settings for "non-ddnet" things it would just improve the general player experience 00:18 < bridge_> i don't really know what the fuss is about but I'm not a maintainer 00:18 < bridge_> whats a non ddnet thing 00:18 < bridge_> somehow I have a commit for ddnet XD no idea what that was 00:19 < bridge_> idk. i guess something highly requested? saving multiple skin settings, entities outlines, freeze display in team 00:20 < bridge_> those are the notable t client ones 00:20 < bridge_> fast input is something that i feel should be in base client 00:20 < bridge_> i especially dont think allowing the client to store more skin settings and to toggle between them introduces like any overhead at all 00:20 < bridge_> its just extra data 00:21 < bridge_> and some scrollable area in the ui that has to be toggled on with a checkbox 00:21 < bridge_> i dont particularly care for tclient profiles 👀 00:21 < bridge_> there is something oddly attractive about custom skin settings being laborious to change 00:22 < bridge_> when someone joins, they normally keep the same skin 00:22 < bridge_> i forgot what fast input does 00:22 < bridge_> so you really get attached to how someone's skin looks idk 00:22 < bridge_> recognize it 00:23 < bridge_> but i still think its a valuable thing. maybe for some modes too, switching to volleyball skin 00:23 < bridge_> not biased or anything 00:23 < bridge_> (the tee is deep anyway) 00:25 < bridge_> yeah skin slots would be neat 00:25 < bridge_> what about entities outlines or tee trails? they're really just eye candy but so is the confetti louis added 00:25 < bridge_> i dont like the profile slots that change your entire name and dummy name and flag etc. 00:25 < bridge_> its too much and better suited for cfg files imo 00:25 < bridge_> yeah I want it just for skins really 00:26 < bridge_> in the UI the menu is just for Tee it wouldn't make sense 00:26 < bridge_> entity outlines are kinda weird 00:26 < bridge_> it makes the tiles less busy 00:26 < bridge_> when playing 00:26 < bridge_> at least imo 00:26 < bridge_> it feels ugly unless youre using a really plain entity set 00:27 < bridge_> which ddnet doesnt come default with 00:27 < bridge_> you do use a plain one on purpose yeah 00:27 < bridge_> enetity outlines is great, entities can sometimes be hard to discern, tee trails can be functional 00:27 < bridge_> also tee trail is not the same eyecandy as confetti xd 00:27 < bridge_> i changed my entities to have a borderless version 00:27 < bridge_> i think tee trails are cooler than i thought originally 00:28 < bridge_> at first I was like meh but its actually info and probably helps with speed, seeing his a trajectory was not working for a parrt 00:28 < bridge_> its definitely more prominent and might feel cluttered since its always on 00:28 < bridge_> 00:28 < bridge_> also its personally not that teeish imo, it looks really nice with multiple ghosts but otherwise idk 00:28 < bridge_> at first I was like meh but its actually info and probably helps with speed, seeing that a trajectory was not working for a parrt 00:28 < bridge_> theres value in keeping everything in default client relatively tee themed 00:29 < bridge_> tclient is great cause it allows ppl who want those more complex options and graphics a good client 00:29 < bridge_> i do at least agree that I don't ever want to see a screenshot and be like wtf am i looking at 00:29 < bridge_> i think the networking and input features could be neat for ddnet but not the other stuff 00:29 < bridge_> but people are already making it like pixel fonts and stuff 00:29 < bridge_> yeah but idt we would ever allow the font to be configurable ingame xd 00:30 < bridge_> i guess minecraft does it but its hidden behind resource packs 00:30 < bridge_> you could I guess but seems pretty pointless to me 00:30 < bridge_> i love the font 00:31 < bridge_> teeish definition needs to be expanded upon 00:31 < bridge_> idk how you imagine that to be 00:32 < bridge_> ive seen a lot of skins in community that are nowhere near teeish to me but we all probably have different ideas of it 00:35 < bridge_> thats why its in community 00:36 < bridge_> its also not baked into the client, yes u can click a checkbox but the skins are pulled from a detached skin server 00:37 < bridge_> reality is 99% of players dont know how to code and most of them just use default values and dont change anything 00:40 < bridge_> one thing i noticed is that there is barely any hierarchy to the settings menu now, its equally as difficult to find smth important and commonly changed compared to a more obscure setting 00:41 < bridge_> i don't think most people dont change things at all 00:41 < bridge_> maybe its just cause i was more used to the simple settings menu back in the day, but still 00:43 < bridge_> many people are acquainted with reset on switch, restore weapon, nameplate size, speed/position/angle 00:44 < bridge_> auto equip weapon is a common too i actually think it should be off by default 00:44 < bridge_> flows better for race normally to have it on though? 00:44 < bridge_> its just other modes 00:45 < bridge_> p sure it makes switching slower if ur holding it down 00:45 < bridge_> unless you have to hh/fly I guess 00:45 < bridge_> uhh and yeah it can fuck u up sometimes idk its kinda jank tbf 00:45 < bridge_> yeah maybe ur right 00:46 < bridge_> You do forget about the "policy" of not adding too many, unnecessary config options (due to maintenance) 00:46 < bridge_> words by heinrich and deen, iirc 00:46 < bridge_> so its difficult with so many opinions to agree on a good default thing 00:46 < bridge_> i didn't "forget" I specifically mentioned that I think the significance is generally overstated 00:46 < bridge_> I don't have experience developing though so my confidence is limited 00:46 < bridge_> (i didnt read whole convo) 00:47 < bridge_> I think tons of niche settings only overlap with very small IF ANY other settings 00:47 < bridge_> and the tests (in most cases) would be trivial to write should they exisr 00:47 < bridge_> and the tests (in most cases) would be trivial to write should they exist 00:48 < bridge_> for example here, it's important to have these settings: `cl_show_direction 0; cl_nameplates_size 50; cl_nameplates_offset 30;` 00:48 < bridge_> 00:48 < bridge_> Especially important: the show_direction, to not move the whole nameplates up 00:48 < bridge_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1366546621956882533/image.png?ex=68115737&is=681005b7&hm=f2e01088b28537ca1db3cc6fe9b9e64a5129a165860867b00f248ea668e8a2ed& 00:48 < bridge_> okay so first of all what is this even 00:48 < bridge_> but it looks cool 00:48 < bridge_> Durák 00:48 < bridge_> thanks 00:48 < bridge_> xd 00:49 < bridge_> xdd 00:49 < bridge_> damn dude I think I don't realize just how much different ddrace shit you've made 00:49 < bridge_> i probably need to see it all sometime 00:49 < bridge_> (never played f-ddrace) 00:50 < bridge_> haha :D what a lot of people say ^^^ 00:50 < bridge_> I'll show you around whenever we both find some time :p 00:50 < bridge_> alcohol best feature 00:50 < bridge_> 😛 yeah, not often on currently but maybe soon. ive never really talked to you before 00:50 < bridge_> hahaha 00:50 < bridge_> just talked "around" you lol 00:50 < bridge_> tbf this is the case for a lot of people 00:51 < bridge_> maybe you would be interested in some of my ideas as well ^^ 00:51 < bridge_> (if you can think of some 2D game, I have already tried to make it in ddnet editor :justatest: ) 00:51 < bridge_> for me its important to do implementations clean, so things usually work very well 00:52 < bridge_> i guess i havent tried to make chess, but that seems actually impossible 00:52 < bridge_> no it is, new ddnet client can hide weapons, and there are all chess skins 00:52 < bridge_> i called it 5d chess 00:52 < bridge_> but nothing coded yet 00:52 < bridge_> well, if you change code yeah 00:53 < bridge_> I'm talking about pure ddrace 00:53 < bridge_> you wanna make chess like the tictactoe with switches? 00:53 < bridge_> all of my games are meant to be "Fun" server compatible 00:53 < bridge_> hard to draw 00:53 < bridge_> the issue isn't drawing it, its storing board state 00:53 < bridge_> bitwise 00:53 < bridge_> we have more entropy to use with dummy speed now but its hard 00:53 < bridge_> ye right 00:54 < bridge_> you can get orders of magnitude higher bits with speeds than switches 00:54 < bridge_> bro will do anything but learn c++ 00:54 < bridge_> downside ofc is needing dummy 00:54 < bridge_> ofc 😄 00:55 < bridge_> to me, learning how to conform to some fixed rules and try to push a closed system to its limit, THAT is what motivates me to create 00:55 < bridge_> its why I like using tools like audacity to make music 00:55 < bridge_> if I have too much freedom, I focus too much on what COULD be created instead of just trying to work to the upper bound 00:56 < bridge_> if thats what makes u happy ig 00:56 < bridge_> but then u can never do anything past a certain complexity 00:56 < bridge_> it does. i have more fun in the editor testing and pushing things than basically anything ive done alone 00:57 < bridge_> aside from coding personal projects 00:57 < bridge_> also audacity just makes things harder idt its any more closed than other stuff 00:57 < bridge_> i would rather map than play if i know what I'm working on 00:57 < bridge_> yeah, I guess it just helps me focused on embracing a mess 00:57 < bridge_> yeah, I guess it just helps me stay focused on embracing a mess 00:58 < bridge_> plus ive received so much positive feedback on volleyball despite feeling like I didn't really do much for it so i feel like I can potentially do way better, there's that too 16:57 < ChillerDragon> pewdiepie using linux? the year of the linux desktop is near!