02:22 < bridge> <zhn> speaking of https being safe and so on, how did/does NSA TURMOIL work then?
02:43 < bridge> <heinrich5991> what is NSA TURMOIL?
02:55 < bridge> <zhn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbulence_(NSA)
03:06 < bridge> <heinrich5991> from that page:
03:06 < bridge> <heinrich5991> > Turmoil is involved in the process of decrypting communications.[5]
03:06 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I still don't really know what NSA TURMOIL is
06:36 < bridge> <ryozuki> gm
06:36 < bridge> <ryozuki> maybe we should store in db the runs that used save or load
06:36 < bridge> <ryozuki> easier to wipe.when exploit is found
08:26 < bridge> <ryozuki> by store i meant a flag whether saveload has been used
09:10 < ws-client2> <ChillerDragon> is it only me or is the editor with a laptop touchpad useless?
09:11 < ws-client2> <ChillerDragon> the mouse is hard to control and when i select tiles i get back a random selection
09:13 < bridge> <meloƞ> I remember this discussion before somewhere
09:39 < bridge> <learath2> TURMOIL is the passive data collection part. The more interesting part of that system is QUANTUMTHEORY
09:43 < bridge> <learath2> Well TURMOIL is interesting too but moreso in how little corporations care about your privacy part. Many gave the NSA access to install what they call "implants" on their backbones
09:44 < bridge> <learath2> Perhaps for money, perhaps to avoid being invited to a cia blacksite for enhanced tea and cookies
09:48 < bridge> <avolicious> I want to be invited for tea and cookies 😦
09:48 < bridge> <learath2> I hear they are irresistible
09:48 < bridge> <avolicious> Mhmmmm, where to apply? 😄
09:50 < bridge> <learath2> Take part in a terror plot or become the sole sysadmin at a large datacenter. You'll get the invitation soon enough
09:51 < bridge> <avolicious> Sounds like a plan. Want to be my co sysadmin? So we both receive an invitation?
09:51 < bridge> <avolicious> If we add heinrich and deen as well, maybe they offer us a shuttle service
09:52 < bridge> <avolicious> :pepeH:
09:55 < bridge> <learath2> No thank you. I don't want any enhanced cookies
09:57 < bridge> <learath2> I do wonder how the NSA gets/used to get certificates to perform their QUANTUM attacks. QUANTUMINSERT is just a packet race e.g. if you get to the client before the webserver you have a chance, but you still need to present a certificate
10:02 < bridge> <learath2> I guess pre-CT they could just do whatever by compromising just one CA
10:08 < bridge> <avolicious> Just get the Lets Encrypt Root CA 🙂
12:05 < bridge> <zhn> this page contains slides from nsa presentation about work of turbulence
12:09 < bridge> <zhn> so, quantumtheory is used to collect data, or are they independent?
12:09 < bridge> <zhn> i mean as parr of turmoil or not
12:09 < bridge> <zhn> i mean as part of turmoil or not
12:11 < bridge> <learath2> TURMOIL analyzes packets, and funnels them to TURBINE. TURBINE then sometimes makes the decision to try an active attack. They have many active attacks in the QUANTUM suite that they use
12:12 < bridge> <learath2> QUANTUMINSERT is a packet race attack, if TURBINE gets a TCP SYN, an attack server close by will rush to race the actual TCP response from the destination server
12:13 < bridge> <learath2> Paired with a forged certificate this allows you to turn your side channel into a mitm
12:13 < bridge> <zhn> ig it works with 90% succeds chance since nsa has all capabilities to make physical lines for themselves
12:14 < bridge> <learath2> Another one we know of is QUANTUMDNS which tries to hijack dns
12:14 < bridge> <zhn> in europe at least
12:14 < bridge> <learath2> They just pay off backbone providers or threaten them or whatever and they get access. No need to build anything
12:15 < bridge> <zhn> gg all our data is being collected by idiocratic country :kek:
12:15 < bridge> <learath2> The entire system is an automated self expanding surveillance network. These things need no human intervention
12:16 < bridge> <zhn> except of building new datacenters
12:17 < bridge> <learath2> If a QUANTUM attack succeeds it'll connect you to a NSA TAO server which will try to auto infiltrate your computer with hundreds and hundreds of zero days and backdoors that they get software and hardware vendors to add in there. Then your computer becomes a part of their surveillence network, occasionally reporting to turbine servers
12:19 < bridge> <learath2> The documents that got dumped online reveal some insane capabilities. It's quite impressive the cyberwarfare arsenal they have built
12:21 < bridge> <zhn> did snowden publish all the documents he got btw?
12:21 < bridge> <learath2> Oh and if all these sophisticated attacks fail. They have very manual operations too. They will straight up intercept shipments of hardware and install spying chips on them
12:22 < bridge> <learath2> Hm, I actually don't know
12:22 < bridge> <zhn> imagine arguing with somebody who got ties with nsa
12:22 < bridge> <zhn> and then :troll:
12:23 < bridge> <zhn> i remember that he transferred all the data to journalists so they could filter it to fit in our minds
12:24 < bridge> <learath2> I don't even know if this part of it was leaked by snowden. I remember this being leaked by some hackers
12:34 < bridge> <zhn> weird https://robertheaton.com/pyskywifi/
13:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> sent before
13:05 < bridge> <zhn> yup
13:06 < bridge> <zhn> too many embeds :kek:
13:19 < bridge> <meloƞ> cannot update AUR to 18.3.1 - seems related to the UPNP API update
13:19 < bridge> <meloƞ> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262730274882584627/image.png?ex=6697a8b5&is=66965735&hm=e667173a53e290a60d6d0963e9b6bac1841446857d00f56b83eb33bf785f7b53&
13:19 < bridge> <meloƞ> cc: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/a0da2d0978ec8af2013604f37681f0d0d973a30e
13:24 < bridge> <meloƞ> ah, the build in itself fails when you set set the UPNP flag - can someone confirm if it isnt a skill issue on my end? otherwise the CI isn't detecting that
13:24 < bridge> <meloƞ> full error:
13:24 < bridge> <meloƞ> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262731681010552862/image.png?ex=6697aa05&is=66965885&hm=51995c71c23c76faec24c87d4aed86c3ffda254649e3898f944c19c707d845da&
13:35 < bridge> <meloƞ> nvm fixed in latest upstream :KEKW:
13:40 < bridge> <meloƞ> nvm fixed in latest upstream :KEKW:, not sure if i can just cherrypick that tho
14:57 < bridge> <ryozuki> @blaiszephyr my fish run openbsd
14:57 < bridge> <ryozuki> check the logo
14:57 < bridge> <jxsl13> r.i.p. ZillyInsta
15:16 < bridge> <learath2> hier deklariert
15:17 < bridge> <learath2> Seeing compiler errors in a different language is rattling
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> switch to gentoo, i maintain the ebuild
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://refspecs.linuxbase.org/elf/x86_64-abi-0.99.pdf
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> the holy bible
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> does anyone know of such a document but for aarch64?
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> also does apple like to be special here and do they use their own call conv?
15:22 < bridge> <ryozuki> for m1s
15:32 < bridge> <learath2> https://github.com/lenary/abis here holier bible
15:37 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://github.com/ARM-software/abi-aa/blob/main/aapcs64/aapcs64.rst
15:37 < bridge> <ryozuki> nice
15:37 < bridge> <heinrich5991> permalink (press 'y' anywhere on github): https://github.com/ARM-software/abi-aa/blob/1a448ed798d03a4143508580bb8dffc99c188d7d/aapcs64/aapcs64.rst
15:38 < bridge> <meloƞ> :KEKW:
15:38 < bridge> <meloƞ> ikr
15:40 < bridge> <learath2> https://github.com/ARM-software/abi-aa/blob/1a448ed798d03a4143508580bb8dffc99c188d7d/sysvabi64/sysvabi64.rst there is also this
15:40 < bridge> <chillerdragon> rebrand is cleaner
15:55 < bridge> <zhn> wdym
16:05 < bridge> <chillerdragon> I renamed the GitHub organization ZillyInsta to ddnet-insta
16:07 < bridge> <heinrich5991> piggybacking on other people's brands :p
16:08 < bridge> <chillerdragon> No removing my branding from a product that should not be about me but be used by everyone who needs it
16:09 < bridge> <chillerdragon> ddnet-insta happens to be the cleanest most neutral and descriptive name
16:30 < bridge> <jxsl13> sounds Zilly to me
16:30 < bridge> <jxsl13> ._.
16:31 < bridge> <chillerdragon> xd
16:38 < bridge> <zhn> contains zillycode™
16:48 < bridge> <Peakies> Hello evening, 
16:48 < bridge> <Peakies> where I can find SQL query of to have below link results ?
16:48 < bridge> <Peakies>  `https://ddnet.org/players/test/`
16:58 < bridge> <learath2> It may not be an sql query. It could also be an aggregate of a couple
17:00 < bridge> <learath2> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-scripts/blob/76bdc60d0238e08b863e7f51f2d40cad8581e0ad/servers/scripts/ranks.py this generates the msgpack we use to generate all the other pages
17:00 < bridge> <learath2> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-scripts/blob/76bdc60d0238e08b863e7f51f2d40cad8581e0ad/servers/scripts/players.py this then parses it to generate the player pages
17:01 < bridge> <Peakies> I want this tnx ❤️
17:01 < bridge> <Peakies> But a question what's msgpack !!
17:02 < bridge> <learath2> Just like a json file, but packed tighter and binary
17:02 < bridge> <Peakies> is it generate by scripts or server execute file ?
17:03 < bridge> <learath2> This script generates it
17:04 < bridge> <learath2> `("select distinct r.Name, r.ID, r.Time, r.Timestamp, (select substring(Server, 1, 3) from record_race where Map = r.Map and Name = r.Name and Time = r.Time limit 1) as Server from ((select distinct ID from record_teamrace where Map = '%s' ORDER BY Time) as l) left join (select * from record_teamrace where Map = '%s') as r on l.ID = r.ID order by r.Time, r.ID, r.Name;`
17:04 < bridge> <learath2> 
17:04 < bridge> <learath2> This is kinda "the" query, but as you can see there is python post processing before it's saved into the msgpack
17:05 < bridge> <Peakies> Well I wanted to gather this information by query and maybe save to csv file then show it to each player to their client profile
17:05 < bridge> <learath2> Well good luck, you might have a better time parsing the player pages
17:05 < bridge> <heinrich5991> only slightly tighter. most of the difference is that it's binary and not textual
17:05 < bridge> <learath2> I'm unsure whether even deen knows how all of this goes together
17:06 < bridge> <Peakies> I think it's going to hard way using ddnet way cuz I can't understand it 😄
17:06 < bridge> <Peakies> maybe 😄
17:08 < bridge> <learath2> You can certainly write queries that do what we do on that page, it would just be impossible for us to run those whenever people request a page, so we don't have them written
17:09 < bridge> <Peakies> Yeah I agree that doing this for website is bad idea cuz in each request have to do that massivly queries
17:09 < bridge> <learath2> (Perhaps with aggressive caching it can be made to work, but I don't think anyone is up for a rewrite of the entire website now)
17:09 < bridge> <learath2> It's just too much work
17:11 < bridge> <milkeeycat> Use mongodb
17:11 < bridge> <milkeeycat> It's webscale
17:11 < bridge> <Peakies> for my project I going to do that query per day maybe and save to sqlite or csv don't know then for example load for player according to their name cuz I don't have expensive vps to be able handle that much query for each request
17:12 < bridge> <Peakies> yeah I can even save data of each player to mongodb and update them and for load just read it from mongodb
17:12 < bridge> <Peakies> but the problem for now is gathering that information from sql 😦
17:12 < bridge> <Peakies> I don't know maybe I going completely away from my purpose 😄
17:13 < bridge> <learath2> You can perhaps even do this in a single query but the amount of time it would take would be insane
17:14 < bridge> <Peakies> well there is a fact that my server sql is more smaller than ddnet 100%
17:14 < bridge> <learath2> Follow our approach, go map by map, build a rank list, you can even put it in a db. Then query that instead per player
17:14 < bridge> <learath2> You can just lift the ranking query from the ddnet source
17:14 < bridge> <milkeeycat> Where's Jupstar :feelsbadman:
17:15 < bridge> <learath2> My favourite db is `> /dev/null`. It has insane write performance
17:15 < bridge> <Peakies> I saw similar project form @stormaxd don't know he's project is public or not
17:16 < bridge> <milkeeycat> It's write only database, you can't read from it
17:16 < bridge> <learath2> You can read your data back out of `/dev/urandom` in finite time
17:17 < bridge> <milkeeycat> Do you know any resources to get started with writing drivers 😄
17:17 < bridge> <jxsl13> facts
17:18 < bridge> <learath2> Nope, I'm however planning on writing a filesystem driver sometime before the end of this year
17:18 < bridge> <learath2> Nothing interesting, I kinda want to mess around with it a bit
17:18 < bridge> <Peakies> when do show that information in player profile
17:18 < bridge> <Peakies> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262790508065853480/image.png?ex=6697e0ce&is=66968f4e&hm=5a01fcea48a32a4def1836a820263d837d43a0905f9b002ad01067a9f9310ba4&
17:18 < bridge> <Peakies> I want to show that information in player profile
17:18 < bridge> <Peakies> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262790508065853480/image.png?ex=6697e0ce&is=66968f4e&hm=5a01fcea48a32a4def1836a820263d837d43a0905f9b002ad01067a9f9310ba4&
17:18 < bridge> <jxsl13> wild background
17:19 < bridge> <jxsl13> don't hammer my face
17:19 < bridge> <milkeeycat> When learath lang?
17:19 < bridge> <Peakies> yeah it's summer season background
17:19 < bridge> <jxsl13> looks funny
17:20 < bridge> <learath2> Perhaps we could add it to `https://ddnet.org/players/?json2=Learath2` now that I think about it
17:20 < bridge> <Peakies> is it loaded from that msgpack etc way ?
17:21 < bridge> <learath2> It's on the back of my mind. Whenever I get annoyed at a language for something, I make a mental note
17:22 < bridge> <heinrich5991> making languages is hard ^^
17:22 < bridge> <heinrich5991> languages unfortunately also suffer from network effects
17:22 < bridge> <learath2> Yes, perhaps we could just load it from the msgpack and serve it, or maybe generate and cache it
17:22 < bridge> <learath2> Any fringe language has to have very strong FFI, no one would use lealang
17:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> go is kind of a counter example
17:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> but even that has somewhat workable ffi
17:23 < bridge> <learath2> Well go isn't fringe, it has a huge ecosystem of it's own
17:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> well, it somehow got ther
17:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> well, it somehow got there
17:23 < bridge> <learath2> I didn't find myself looking for many external libraries at all
17:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it was created only in 2009 or so
17:23 < bridge> <learath2> It's backed by google
17:24 < bridge> <learath2> and rust had mozarella
17:24 < bridge> <learath2> getting one large corpo fan of your language is incredibly useful
17:24 < bridge> <Peakies> gameskins 😛
17:24 < bridge> <Peakies> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262791976995000380/image.png?ex=6697e22c&is=669690ac&hm=3cc29c2096d7554d16a698a5a6406417286980a673f7d0691396bc2146a32811&
17:25 < bridge> <learath2> Look at Nim and Zig in comparison, both very promising languages but sort of DOA
17:26 < bridge> <milkeeycat> But making goofy languages is fun
17:26 < bridge> <learath2> That can't be denied, even if I don't end up making anything serious, I'll definitely make something for the lulz
17:27 < bridge> <heinrich5991> even a language that is slightly interesting is already very hard
17:27 < bridge> <heinrich5991> one of my friends did one 🙂
17:27 < bridge> <milkeeycat> I want C with methods on structs xd
17:27 < bridge> <learath2> I might make a Better-C
17:29 < bridge> <learath2> Though C++ already exists if you use it in a sane manner it's not that bad
17:29 < bridge> <milkeeycat> I once jumped to a definition
17:29 < bridge> <milkeeycat> It was a huge mistake
17:30 < bridge> <heinrich5991> everyone agrees that you need to use a "reasonable subset" of C++, but I'm not sure if people agree on what that reasonable subset is
17:30 < bridge> <heinrich5991> a linter that denies other parts of C++ might be in order
17:31 < bridge> <learath2> Anyway, my main language idea is a lax-rust. Unrust? Derust?
17:31 < bridge> <meloƞ> Why did noone Tell Me 4 Sticks of ddr5 wont Work without hours of tinkering <a:catxplosion:1082715870893195274> :KEKW: , man that was painful, TiL AMD EXPO can be annoyingly stressful when the Profile is Not explicitly enabled
17:31 < bridge> <learath2> Maybe after I finally quit this job I'll sit down for a week or two and sketch it out properly
17:32 < bridge> <ryozuki> lealang?
17:32 < bridge> <ryozuki> u copied my name
17:32 < bridge> <ryozuki> edlang
17:32 < bridge> <learath2> There is some legacy to C++ that makes the syntax unnecessarily nasty. Things like `std::optional` are not fun to use
17:32 < bridge> <ryozuki> *angry memory safe noises*
17:33 < bridge> <ryozuki> -# member of thenanti c++ consortium
17:33 < bridge> <ryozuki> -# member of then anti c++ club
17:33 < bridge> <ryozuki> -# member of the anti c++ club
17:33 < bridge> <ryozuki> god i cant type
17:34 < bridge> <ryozuki> bro i literally Talked about this some time ago
17:34 < bridge> <meloƞ> the way my RAM is currently setup is a sin on so many levels
17:34 < bridge> <ryozuki> its why i have 2 sticks of 32gb each
17:34 < bridge> <meloƞ> :KEKW: :KEKW: :KEKW: :KEKW: :KEKW:
17:34 < bridge> <meloƞ> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262794571989909577/image.png?ex=6697e497&is=66969317&hm=431b58d5627954284890695ec47ecf7ca8dd1c94c17bdd29027429a4e31968d2&
17:35 < bridge> <ryozuki> u shouldnt do that
17:35 < bridge> <ryozuki> i think
17:35 < bridge> <learath2> What on earth?
17:35 < bridge> <learath2> This is a crime
17:36 < bridge> <learath2> Oh wait, it's not the per stick configuration, what is this?
17:36 < bridge> <meloƞ> profile A (stick a and c) are set to EXPO
17:36 < bridge> <meloƞ> profile B (stick b and d) are set to XMP
17:36 < bridge> <meloƞ> why? because it wouldnt boot otherwise
17:36 < bridge> <meloƞ> (i'll change it after reading manuals for a few hours)
17:37 < bridge> <learath2> What is your cpu?
17:38 < bridge> <meloƞ> Ryzen 9 7950X
17:39 < bridge> <learath2> Are you even allowed to run that fast with 4 sticks?
17:39 < bridge> <learath2> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262795759192117288/image.png?ex=6697e5b2&is=66969432&hm=ce0404e417e180dc85753be717923d60028434df3727bdda3f1623074261e1df&
17:40 < bridge> <ryozuki> the truth is, u simply cant have 4 ddr5 ram at 6000
17:41 < bridge> <ryozuki> u can only OC to 6000 with 2 sticks
17:41 < bridge> <learath2> Perhaps you can run at 4800 with 4 sticks if you are lucky
17:42 < bridge> <ryozuki> give ur ram back and buy 2x32gb 6000mt/s
17:42 < bridge> <ryozuki> its the best bet
17:42 < bridge> <meloƞ> :feelsbadman:  yes chefcv
17:42 < bridge> <meloƞ> :feelsbadman:  yes chef
17:42 < bridge> <ryozuki> it costed me 230€ i think
17:42 < bridge> <learath2> :this: I wouldn't mess around with it either, 4 sticks of ddr5 just runs bad in general
17:42 < bridge> <ryozuki> also try to pick the lowest cl
17:44 < bridge> <jxsl13> you want Go
17:44 < bridge> <jxsl13> >:D
17:51 < bridge> <milkeeycat> I use it at my job 😏
17:52 < bridge> <heinrich5991> https://withinboredom.info/2022/12/29/golang-is-evil-on-shitty-networks/
18:00 < bridge> <-StormAx> i'm offering source codes for education purposes
18:15 < bridge> <jxsl13> big win 😄
18:23 < bridge> <ryozuki> guyss
18:23 < bridge> <ryozuki> i passef
18:23 < bridge> <ryozuki> passed
18:23 < bridge> <ryozuki> got a drivers license!
18:23 < bridge> <learath2> congrats, now you can contribute to urban traffic :Celebrate:
18:23 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262806936097652756/file.jpg?ex=6697f01b&is=66969e9b&hm=b987fa3d6633cbf8c3b702522a660f8767935f1df549280f6cc0ae358c57d312&
18:23 < bridge> <ryozuki> meme to celebrate
18:26 < bridge> <meloƞ> :poggers2: :poggers2: :poggers2: :poggers2: :poggers2: :poggers2:
18:26 < bridge> <learath2> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34181846 The author of the default makes a decent point
18:27 < bridge> <meloƞ> @diariesvexar all stormax does is use ddnet and ddstats json endpoints, parsing and displaying it in a horrible designed UI :greenthing:  ( i helped design it, i'm allowed to flame)
18:49 < bridge> <-StormAx> always blame @blaiszephyr
19:00 < bridge> <meloƞ> :justatest:
19:36 < bridge> <ryozuki> now i just.need a car
19:37 < bridge> <meloƞ> could've gotten my old VW for 100$ which i gave away like 2 months ago :greenthing:
19:39 < bridge> <meloƞ> it was a good one as well! VW Golf V 1.4 TDI
19:40 < bridge> <meloƞ> ayo what dem git diffs from 2020 doing in there
19:41 < bridge> <meloƞ> :pepe_holy:
19:41 < bridge> <meloƞ> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1262826364361379912/image.png?ex=66980233&is=6696b0b3&hm=8426299c77bf9fbad872c6d3727e939e89eb28f6fdbc36254768cdc3ac0e2773&
19:46 < bridge> <Peakies> oh didn't know that then i think i don't need he's client source tnx ❤️
19:47 < bridge> <Peakies> no it's fine I know what I should to do tnx anyway :owo:
20:47 < bridge> <jxsl13> sick
20:47 < bridge> <jxsl13> quality of life features