00:00 < bridge> <meloƞ> More Like 7000 more Lines of Text/Code (every month),
03:48 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> omg @jxsl13 you already did huffman in golang -.- i just spent 3 days on that shit xd
03:48 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> i know you said you wanted to do it at some point but i thought you never started
04:01 < bridge> <totar> does the client know the server version?
04:35 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> dont think so @totar 
04:35 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> but not sure
04:36 < bridge> <totar> I was thinking the same but I didn't look very hard
04:36 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> i mean there is /info :D 
04:38 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> @jxsl13 @Learath2 how do go variable naming? if i have a struct `node` how do i call the instance variable?
04:38 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> Seems like some people like single letter variable names those make me nervous. Is that really the good golang style?
04:40 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> I can't call the struct `Node` because it should be private. I can't shorten it without being weird `nod` `nd` or using a single letter which seems wrong `n`. I can't prefix the struct with `snode` because nobody seems to do that ._.
04:40 < bridge> <totar> wdym /info?
04:41 < bridge> <totar> oh the server command lol
04:41 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> ye you can scrape that from the chat message
04:41 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> even commit hash :D
04:42 < bridge> <totar> I don't have any immedate use for it, I was just wondering if the server is already sending it
04:42 < bridge> <totar> I don't have any immediate use for it, I was just wondering if the server is already sending it
04:42 < bridge> <totar> I just thought it is weird that the server uses client version to check for client capabilities but the client uses server cap flags to check for server capabilities. I figure they could both just use version?
04:43 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> ouuu or should i call my struct `huffmanNode` ? but that is also discouraged if the package is already called huffman
04:44 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> @totar allows for custom servers implementing partial capabilities
04:44 < bridge> <totar> could call it huffTreeNode of HTreeNode or HNode
04:44 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> oh right
04:44 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> i could call it treeNode
04:45 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> not too nice i like node -.-
04:45 < bridge> <totar> but the client doesn't get this privilege 😅
04:45 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> then add that feature @totar 
04:46 < bridge> <totar> I'm not really interested in disrupting network protocol that much for something I don't need anyway lol
04:47 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> disruptive technology is the future
04:47 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> like 0.7
04:48 < bridge> <totar> yes but ddnet protocol is like blockchain, you can never delete it later
04:48 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> so ddnet-pg is like bitcoin gold?
04:48 < bridge> <totar> lol
04:53 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> the standard library should be the gold standard of ones language style guides right?
04:53 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> So single letter instance variables it is ... :c 
05:11 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> they didn't even bother to call stringReader reader or something :D 
05:11 <+ws-client> <ChillerDragon> https://github.com/golang/go/blob/45967bb18e04fa6dc62c2786c87ce120443c64f6/src/fmt/scan.go#L86-L93
06:29 < bridge> <ryozuki> morning peeps
06:34 < bridge> <milkeeycat> morning golang enjoyers and others
08:08 < bridge> <jxsl13> var node node ?
08:09 < bridge> <jxsl13> ```go
08:09 < bridge> <jxsl13> node := node{
08:09 < bridge> <jxsl13>     // ....
08:09 < bridge> <jxsl13> }
08:09 < bridge> <jxsl13> ```
08:14 < bridge> <jxsl13> https://github.com/jxsl13/twapi/blob/master/compression/huffman.go
09:42 < bridge> <reitw> Damn golang looks horrible
10:19 < bridge> <heinrich5991> the server capabilities is so that custom servers can customize the client instead of opting into lots of ddrace features by version number
10:20 < bridge> <heinrich5991> what can we do against reimplementing every simple library into every programming language?
10:21 < bridge> <heinrich5991> so much wasted time, the computer already knows how to huffman-decode 12 ways, why can't we easily reuse that…
10:22 < bridge> <meloƞ> ya think? i find golang to be pretty good in terms of readability
10:30 < bridge> <totar> golang in particular seems to have a "write it again yourself from scratch" sentiment, kinda like c
10:31 < bridge> <totar> I see so many projects that implement tons of basic stuff in their repo instead of using library's idk why
10:33 < bridge> <totar> Yeah but some of them are used for stuff that the server has no reason to customize and should just be version based.
10:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I think go doesn't interoperate well with C ABIs, perhaps that's why
10:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> can you give an example?
10:33 < bridge> <totar> SERVERCAPFLAG_SYNCWEAPONINPUT
10:34 < bridge> <totar> this is just a flag that says the server fixed a bug
10:35 < bridge> <heinrich5991> yea, I suppose that could be a version
10:36 < bridge> <totar> also SERVERCAPFLAG_PINGEX ?
10:37 < bridge> <totar> someone wants to remove ping?
10:37 < bridge> <totar> actually I have no idea what this does
10:39 < bridge> <heinrich5991> yea, that, too
10:39 < bridge> <totar> ok I guess it just changes the ping protocol
10:40 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it says that the server supports the better ping protocol
10:40 < bridge> <totar> yeah I see that now
10:40 < bridge> <totar> I thought it was doing the reverse initially
10:47 < bridge> <heinrich5991> @learath2 did you know go wastes cpu cycles on storing args/return values on the stack? oO https://dr-knz.net/go-calling-convention-x86-64.html
10:48 < bridge> <fokkonaut> lol
10:48 < bridge> <totar> have you seen this? 
10:48 < bridge> <totar> https://www.dolthub.com/blog/2023-10-20-golang-pitfalls-3/
10:48 < bridge> <totar> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1248196873345437746/image.png?ex=6662c96c&is=666177ec&hm=ad324df6862d727dabd77782ee852c634e7f6930d1bdb905bdcddb0d32fa3635&
10:52 < bridge> <learath2> Yep, it all has to go through cgo which is slow
10:52 < bridge> <heinrich5991> is there a way to fix that?
10:53 < bridge> <heinrich5991> what would I need to do to create a go-native library?
10:53 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I want to write it in a language that's not go
10:53 < bridge> <learath2> Yes, gccgo doesn't have the same issue
10:53 < bridge> <heinrich5991> and it should compile using the standard go command, not cgo
10:54 < bridge> <learath2> Ah you want the library to be go native but not in go. Hm, I think you have not much of a choice there
10:55 < bridge> <heinrich5991> how is the go standard library implemented? it needs to have some sort of (I'm missing the word here, backdoor?) so that it can implement syscalls, call winapi, etc..
10:56 < bridge> <heinrich5991> chatgpt does not know the missing word here
10:57 < bridge> <heinrich5991> @learath2 does go have the ability to link libraries in binary format? does it have a way of writing functions in assembly?
10:57 < bridge> <heinrich5991> @learath2 does go have the ability to link go-native libraries in binary format? does it have a way of writing functions in assembly?
11:14 < bridge> <ryozuki> iirc go does raw syscalls on linux
11:14 < bridge> <ryozuki> or maybe they changed that
11:15 < bridge> <heinrich5991> but how does it do them? compiler support?
11:16 < bridge> <heinrich5991> or can you somehow express syscalls in go, e.g. via assembly?
11:16 < bridge> <learath2> Uhm, you can link in assembly, they generate syscall stubs which they call into
11:16 < bridge> <heinrich5991> a-ha!
11:16 < bridge> <learath2> Uhm, you can link to assembly, they generate syscall stubs which they call into
11:17 < bridge> <heinrich5991> so I can compile my non-go library (using go calling convention) to assembly and then link to it using go?
11:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://tip.golang.org/src/cmd/compile/abi-internal
11:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> This document describes Go’s internal application binary interface (ABI), known as ABIInternal. Go’s ABI defines the layout of data in memory and the conventions for calling between Go functions. This ABI is unstable and will change between Go versions. If you’re writing assembly code, please instead refer to Go’s assembly documentation, which describes Go’s stable ABI, known as ABI0.
11:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://tip.golang.org/doc/asm
11:21 < bridge> <learath2> Oh actually, they don't do this entirely in asm anymore. They ported the argument preparation and return retreival to go. So there is only one part remaining and that's the very call itself. With `RawSyscall`
11:21 < bridge> <learath2> You'll have abi issues as ryozuki pointed out
11:22 < bridge> <learath2> But yes, you can sort of make it work if your library is ABI0 compatible
11:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> why only sort of make it work?
11:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> ah, because it's abi0 intead of abiinternal? fair enough
11:24 < bridge> <learath2> Calls between them work fine but there is some overhead iirc. (much much less than cgo)
11:34 < bridge> <heinrich5991> this actually looks pretty cool. perhaps we should make a abi0-go-asm backend for llvm ^^
11:34 < bridge> <heinrich5991> so that go can finally use libraries written in other languages without a lot of overhead
11:36 < bridge> <learath2> Tbh, I don’t know how the calls to such libraries would look like from go. You need to mark your function abi0 on the assembly so go calls it with that convention. You’d have to generate a trampoline on the go side still even if empty
11:37 < bridge> <heinrich5991> why do I need a trampoline?
11:37 < bridge> <learath2> I wonder if there is some deep dark part of the library that has a way to cast an unsafe uintptr to a function pointer to an abi0 function
11:38 < bridge> <heinrich5991> have to go (haha) now, but I'm interested in getting back to this. write your comments, I'll read them
11:38 < bridge> <learath2> Say you load your new library into memory. Put it into executable memory, how do you call into it? Get a pointer to the symbol, and cast it to a function pointer. Go will assume it’s ABIInternal when calling it, there is no way to mark that function pointer ABI0 afaik
11:39 < bridge> <learath2> Atleast not one I know, but I’m fairly new with go anyway so idk
11:55 < bridge> <learath2> https://words.filippo.io/rustgo/ someone gave something like this a try
11:56 < bridge> <reitw> I swear discord are the worst in app dev
11:57 < bridge> <reitw> Since the last update I have to click a bit above
11:58 < bridge> <heinrich5991> ah nice, I had something like this in mind
12:01 < bridge> <learath2> They took the trampoline approach though, not getting llvm to spit out abi0 compatible symbols 😄
13:11 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1201/amd-accelerates-pace-of-data-center-ai-innovation-and
13:41 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40594533
15:52 < bridge> <AssassinTee> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/976556089611018322/1248272972708446268/2024-06-06-155056_1916x1076_scrot.png?ex=6663104c&is=6661becc&hm=47e486f35513ce297f7886c5b651ae79e26d37e157020cc9556f19f0b3e9e491&
15:52 < bridge> <AssassinTee> 
15:52 < bridge> <AssassinTee> 🙂
16:20 < bridge> <h2_penka> Заходи сюда срочно !!! Мы тебя ждём !! discord.gg/gametrash
16:28 < bridge> <reitw> @blaiszephyr
16:28 < bridge> <reitw> spacex did a masterclass at the end aswell
16:29 < bridge> <meloƞ> I DIDNT SEEE
16:29 < bridge> <meloƞ> FUUUUUU
16:29 < bridge> <reitw> almost perfect, mostly, it was damn amazing
16:29 < bridge> <reitw> lmaoo rip watch replay
16:29 < bridge> <reitw> they lost a wing but it soft landed aswell
16:31 < bridge> <chillerdragon> Eh wtf that works? How do I know which is type and which is variable then
16:31 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://jcdav.is/2015/10/06/SIGSEGV-as-control-flow/
16:31 < bridge> <chillerdragon> func nodder(node node) {}
16:40 < bridge> <jxsl13> *nods*
16:41 < bridge> <jxsl13> you know by semantics
16:41 < bridge> <jxsl13> where a variable is expected, tue variable is used
16:41 < bridge> <jxsl13> the
16:41 < bridge> <jxsl13> and vice versa
16:43 < bridge> <chillerdragon> Coming from C the Symantics im used to are swapped so it’s confusing
16:44 < bridge> <chillerdragon> But ye is it good style to name variables the same as structs?
16:53 < bridge> <reitw> @blaiszephyr https://youtu.be/rXRVtt8M9oY?t=1184
17:04 < bridge> <learath2> Hostnames can't have spaces, but my printer announces it's name with spaces, does anyone know how one is supposed to encode spaces when tyring to resolve it using mdns?
17:10 < bridge> <jxsl13> I called my node variable n
17:10 < bridge> <jxsl13> so, it doesn't matter how you call it
17:10 < bridge> <learath2> figured it out, these things get a different hostname if they advertise a name with spaces and shit
18:10 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://davidlattimore.github.io/posts/2024/06/05/speeding-up-rustc-by-being-lazy.html
19:32 < bridge> <learath2> I often use one letter names to annoy people that care about variable naming too much
19:33 < bridge> <Ewan> i use them all the time
19:33 < bridge> <Ewan> as long as they're only rly used in like narrow scope
19:33 < bridge> <Ewan> i thought everyone did that
19:46 < bridge> <jxsl13> huffman is a fuckup in itself, good variable names will not help anyway, gotta comment your code for yourself and the rest of the world or do it like I did, iterate until the implementation works and be happy.
19:46 < bridge> <jxsl13> that's usually the go to tradeoff
21:10 < bridge> <ryozuki> does this make sense
21:10 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1248353372944466080/Screenshot_20240606-211003.png?ex=66635b2d&is=666209ad&hm=6226bddc4c68881edad3bf43e689e4db036372c12e137c8879c88cb35f8e0d55&
21:14 < bridge> <learath2> Well having a chat never hurts. Why did you expose the head hunter like this? 😄
21:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
21:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> ok ill delete
21:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> but 600k seems unreal
21:23 < bridge> <learath2> If anyone is paying that much it's those companies he mentioned 😄
21:24 < bridge> <learath2> But yeah sounds a little insane to me too
21:39 < bridge> <Ewan> 600k crazy
21:39 < bridge> <Ewan> euro?
21:44 < bridge> <egyt> at least not pounds 🙏
23:39 < zombietoad> hello is anyone still on irc
23:39 < zombietoad> @deen @heinrich5991
23:40 < zombietoad> i got banned from ddnet servers for EVA
23:40 < zombietoad> i think it is not a fair ban
23:40 < zombietoad> i am requesting unban
23:40 < zombietoad> is @Lereath2 here
23:40 < zombietoad> @learath2 *
23:41 < zombietoad> @snailx3
23:41 < zombietoad> @skeith
23:41 < zombietoad> is anyone here
23:41 < zombietoad> @Q
23:42 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> did u try to ping qshar
23:42  * zombietoad slaps ChillerDragon around a bit with a large fishbot
23:42 < zombietoad> idk
23:42 < zombietoad> theres someone on irc named @Q
23:42 < zombietoad> also KOG SUCKS
23:43 < zombietoad> @learath2 @snailx3 @gdin @skeith @robyt
23:43 < zombietoad> @murpi @deen
23:44 < zombietoad> @melon
23:44 < zombietoad> HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
23:44 < zombietoad> i need to play dummy drag race network
23:45 < bridge> <learath2> Your help request has been received, your ban is now permanent. Thank you for contacting ddnet customer service
23:45 < zombietoad> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
23:46 < zombietoad> i want permanent unban
23:46 < zombietoad> not ban pls
23:47 < zombietoad> @learath2 is bully i want new judge
23:47 < zombietoad> @deen pls wake up
23:47 < zombietoad> the admins online are not nice
23:47  * zombietoad slaps deen around a bit with a large fishbot
23:47  * zombietoad slaps deen around a bit with a large fishbot
23:48  * zombietoad slaps deen around a bit with a large fishbot
23:48 < zombietoad> gdin was nice admin where did he go
23:48 < bridge> <learath2> Your request for a new judge has been received. It will be processed in 10 to 12 months
23:48 < zombietoad> toxic ddnet leadership has pushed out the good staff :(
23:49 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> This is the first time i've seen Learath having fun trolling someone. Respect zombie toad
23:49 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> That must be personal xD
23:49 < bridge> <learath2> No more nice people around, you should probably just permanently leave this very toxic community
23:49 < bridge> <Ewan> i think your chances of success would be way higher had you pinged someone one time and left it there. also just depends on what you did for the ban in the first place
23:50 < bridge> <Ewan> even if you didn't ping the right guy there are lots of eyes on the general chat so someone would have seen it anyway lol
23:50 < bridge> <Ewan> i have personally seen deen humor tickets
23:50 < bridge> <Ewan> like
23:50 < bridge> <Ewan> just chill
23:51 < zombietoad> every second without ddrace is pain
23:51 < zombietoad> i cannot take it
23:51 < bridge> <Ewan> :(
23:52 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> good thing we have lan servers
23:52 < bridge> <Ewan> no points on lan servers
23:52 < bridge> <learath2> Your request for an addiction counselor has been received. An addiction counselor will contact you within 2 to 4 weeks. We apologize for the delay
23:54 < zombietoad> @lagar help
23:54 < zombietoad> @Lagar
23:54 < bridge> <Ewan> it's over dude
23:54 < zombietoad> ur turkish friend learath is hate me
23:54 < bridge> <Ewan> u think lagar can trump lerato
23:54 < zombietoad> pls tell him im nice 
23:55 < zombietoad> they both turk
23:55 < zombietoad> they have bond
23:55 < bridge> <Ewan> i respect the effort
23:56 < zombietoad> @learath2 i bet you dont even play ddnet anymore
23:56 < zombietoad> you just keep admin so you can troll me
23:57 < bridge> <learath2> Exactly, why else would I stay around?
23:59 < zombietoad> can you be nice for 1 time and unban me pls