01:55 < ws-client> <ChillerDragon> @ryozuki are you saying edlang has a release, a web page, a project creation tool and a debugger but it can not do hello world?
02:35 < bridge> <smetanolub> why i cant use prediction margin 0?
02:35 < bridge> <smetanolub> only 1 or higher
07:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> yes xd
07:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://twitter.com/phoronix/status/1767695611808158035
07:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> with this obs is better on linux now than on windows
07:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> legit
07:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> u cant do pipewire stuff in windows
08:41 < bridge> <TsFreddie> no, but i think you can just lock the room/team to prevent spectator joining in
08:41 < bridge> <TsFreddie> and they can still spectate using /spec player
14:11 < bridge> <ryozuki> edlang now supports having both lib.ed and main.ed
14:11 < bridge> <ryozuki> and builds a shared library and a binary pog
14:12 < bridge> <ryozuki> it also doesnt require a top level module
14:13 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```rust
14:13 < bridge> <ryozuki> pub exported fn hello_world(a: i32) -> i32 {
14:13 < bridge> <ryozuki>     return a;
14:13 < bridge> <ryozuki> }
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> what do u think about the exported keyword? it disables name mangling and makes it externally visible
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> the pub is only within edlang
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> or maybe i should just copy rust? pub extern "C" fn
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> but i doubt ill support other than extern "C" itself
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1217460708892217394/image.png?ex=66041ba4&is=65f1a6a4&hm=776b07d63f9e1c2b08a4528e39d3d21494102231358a27a90e5290c309142d86&
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> :owo:
14:15 < bridge> <learath2> Why do you do mangling at all?
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> @learath2 because i have modules
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> namespaces if u will
14:15 < bridge> <ryozuki> my mangling is rly dumb tho rn
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> if i mark it not exported
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> the name will be
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> `define private i32 @"hello_world@0@3"(i32 %0) !dbg !2 {`
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> 0 is like the file id
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> 3 is the definition id
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> which increases when it finds definitions like functions etc
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```llvm
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> 2 = distinct !DISubprogram(name: "hello_world", linkageName: "hello_world@0@3", scope: !3, file: !1, line: 4, type: !4, scopeLine: 4, spFlags: DISPFlagDefinition, unit: !0, retainedNodes: !7)
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```
14:16 < bridge> <ryozuki> good debug info kek
14:17 < bridge> <learath2> Do you have overloads?
14:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> @learath2 i will have generics
14:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> no overloads for now
14:17 < bridge> <learath2> If no overloads, why do you need the definition id?
14:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> true
14:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> but definition id could help in generics
14:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
14:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> cuz multiple definitions
14:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> with diferent types
14:18 < bridge> <learath2> Yeah, but I think you should move to a more deterministic mangling scheme
14:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> yeah
14:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> it was just smth quick for now
14:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> to not get symbol conflicts
14:18 < bridge> <learath2> Understandable
14:18 < bridge> <ryozuki> @learath2 any known algorithm?
14:19 < bridge> <ryozuki> also i think the linker doesnt support the @ symbol
14:19 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I don't think rust disables "name mangling" for `extern "C"`
14:19 < bridge> <ryozuki> oh
14:19 < bridge> <heinrich5991> you need to add the `#[no_mangle]` attribute IIRC
14:19 < bridge> <ryozuki> well then my exported keyword is the same as extern "C" and no_mangle
14:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> ill change @ to $
14:24 < bridge> <learath2> You could draw inspiration from rust or c++
14:24 < bridge> <learath2> You want the return type, the function name (including module maybe), and argument types in order
14:25 < bridge> <ryozuki> oh @ actually is valid
14:25 < bridge> <heinrich5991> for whatever reason, the gdb demangler can segfault
14:26 < bridge> <heinrich5991> and it's kinda known that it's bad code
14:26 < bridge> <ryozuki> > In the stdcall and fastcall mangling schemes, the function is encoded as _name@X and @name@X respectively, where X is the number of bytes, in decimal, of the argument(s) in the parameter list (including those passed in registers, for fastcall). In the case of cdecl, the function name is merely prefixed by an underscore.
14:26 < bridge> <learath2> Huh
14:27 < bridge> <ryozuki> > All mangled symbols begin with _Z (note that an identifier beginning with an underscore followed by a capital letter is a reserved identifier in C, so conflict with user identifiers is avoided
14:27 < bridge> <ryozuki> TIL
14:28 < bridge> <heinrich5991> island is also a reserved name
14:28 < bridge> <ryozuki> > All mangled symbols begin with _Z (note that an identifier beginning with an underscore followed by a capital letter is a reserved identifier in C, so conflict with user identifiers is avoided); for nested names (including both namespaces and classes), this is followed by N, then a series of <length, id> pairs (the length being the length of the next identifier), and finally E. For example, wikipedia::article::format becomes:
14:28 < bridge> <ryozuki> > 
14:28 < bridge> <ryozuki> > _ZN9wikipedia7article6formatE
14:28 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
14:28 < bridge> <ryozuki> the full text
14:29 < bridge> <ryozuki> ok shouldnt be hard to copy this mangling
14:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> i keep setting aside implementing strings and arrays with other stuff
14:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> i need to focus
14:54 < bridge> <ryozuki> :justatest:
14:58 < bridge> <learath2> Are you doing utf8 strings?
14:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> :justatest:
14:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> for now ill do just "strings"
14:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> and not zero terminated
14:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> but ill probs do utf8
14:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> actually i wanna do CStr and String
14:58 < bridge> <ryozuki> like rust
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> i think ill end up doing rust2
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> :justatest:
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> i have 0 originality
14:59 < bridge> <learath2> :pepeW:
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> thats why i ask for ideas
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> but nobody here has
14:59 < bridge> <learath2> Rust is just perfect as it is
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> xD
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> indeed
14:59 < bridge> <learath2> Do unsafe by default rust
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> :justatest:
14:59 < bridge> <ryozuki> zig comptime is interesting
15:00 < bridge> <ryozuki> i just need to think a feature that makes edlang different
15:00 < bridge> <ryozuki> but for now im happy to have a working language
15:01 < bridge> <learath2> fearful concurrency
15:01 < bridge> <ryozuki> i wanna know if there are cutting edge papers
15:01 < bridge> <ryozuki> on borrow checkers
15:01 < bridge> <learath2> Cutting edge borrow checkers are probably so much graph theory that your brain will melt out of your ears
15:01 < bridge> <ryozuki> rust with good async
15:02 < bridge> <learath2> garbage collected rust
15:02 < bridge> <ryozuki> hey thats going too far
15:02 < bridge> <learath2> Mark and Sweep gc isn't too hard to implement
15:02 < bridge> <ryozuki> we dont do that here
15:02 < bridge> <learath2> I'm about to learn some go btw
15:02 < bridge> <ryozuki> nice
15:02 < bridge> <ryozuki> u only need 1 day
15:02 < bridge> <ryozuki> literally
15:02 < bridge> <ryozuki> its the only pro of the language XD
15:02 < bridge> <learath2> 😄
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> i hate how it handles errors
15:03 < bridge> <learath2> Why? Is it similar to some language I already know?
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> makes it all so ugly
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> @learath2 google made it for interns
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> to learn how to code
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> and have people working fast in something
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> hmm u return a tuple with the error and the result
15:03 < bridge> <ryozuki> if the error is not null u use the result
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> u have to check the error on all ur function invocations
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> an entire if block
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> every time
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> there is no sugar
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> u can use the result without checking the error
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> no safety
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> also it has nulls
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> so its already a bad lang
15:04 < bridge> <ryozuki> :justatest:
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://go.dev/blog/error-handling-and-go
15:05 < bridge> <learath2> Rust honestly has it mostly right, I see no point to inventing new languages anymore. If I were making my own flavor of rust, I'd have it unsafe by default, find some way to allow self referential structs and maybe try to improve on the async
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```go
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> f, err := Sqrt(-1)
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> if err != nil {
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki>     fmt.Println(err)
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> }
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> im sry but i find it rly ugly
15:05 < bridge> <ryozuki> u have to do this
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```rust
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> func Sqrt(f float64) (float64, error) {
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki>     if f < 0 {
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki>         return 0, errors.New("math: square root of negative number")
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki>     }
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki>     // implementation
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> }
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> 
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> ```
15:06 < bridge> <learath2> Hm, it's just lacking some sugar, isn't this the same approach as rust Results?
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> having no algebraic data types is a no go too
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> u have to use a default value
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> when returning a result
15:06 < bridge> <ryozuki> bad bad bad
15:14 < bridge> <learath2> I guess it doesn't guard as well as Results against you accidentally forgetting to check that there were no errors
15:20 < bridge> <heinrich5991> the yoke crate is a nice way of doing self-referential structs, even though it has weird terminology
15:21 < bridge> <louis> @ryozuki do fractional number representations
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> https://ed-lang.org/
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> new design
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> actually i just changed the classless css framework i use
15:21 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
15:22 < bridge> <heinrich5991> you mean as fractions?
15:22 < bridge> <louis> yes @heinrich5991
15:25 < bridge> <learath2> infinite precision arithmetic
15:26 < bridge> <teero777> btw why is no language doing that?
15:26 < bridge> <louis> https://code.pyret.org/editor
15:26 < bridge> <louis> ```
15:26 < bridge> <louis> a = 3/5
15:26 < bridge> <louis> b = a * 14/2990
15:26 < bridge> <louis> print(b)
15:26 < bridge> <louis> ```
15:29 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it seems not particularly useful as a standard representation to me because sooner or later you're going to pass the value to a non-polynomial function
15:29 < bridge> <heinrich5991> and then your result can't be precise anymore
15:32 < bridge> <louis> store the expression as a tree then evaluate it when it needs to be😩
15:32 < bridge> <heinrich5991> my android calculator has infinite precision
15:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I like that
15:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> my android calculator has arbitrary precision
15:34 < bridge> <heinrich5991> python has fractions btw: https://docs.python.org/3/library/fractions.html
16:58 < bridge> <learath2> Fractional representations of numbers are less performant to work with, at the end of the day when you do need the actual final value of your operation it'll incur an expensive `DIV` to get it and multiplying fractions together is two `MUL`s instead of one, adding fractions with different bases is variable cost, incurs atleast 2 muls and an add
17:07 < bridge> <teero777> oh ok
17:17 < bridge> <pisisik> why is this not added in new update? https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/7521
17:18 < bridge> <pisisik> am I right that for 2 month a name can't be chosen and it is the only problem?
17:25 < bridge> <stepfunn> Why would you add something like this to the game? I don't really get whats the use case for this
17:26 < bridge> <devinci24> Some players enjoy doing t0 speedruns. That would be the new kind of private servers.
17:27 < bridge> <pisisik> as written there by Robyt3 "We should better support t0 runs without having to manually set a password on servers." but I can also add that it might be helpful if you still want that t0 gameplay but not with everyone so you can go in team with this t0 mode and kick annoying people from it without it being funvote
17:28 < bridge> <zhn> people getting mad about t0 runs cuz they're not allowed to ban everyone who joins the server
17:28 < bridge> <zhn> and no one will set a password for them since t0 runs are unsupported
17:53 < bridge> <bencie.> i mean sometimes admins do has happened a few times, but its a hassle for both the runners and the admins
17:53 < bridge> <bencie.> i mean sometimes admins do and it has happened a few times, but its a hassle for both the runners and the admins
18:07 < bridge> <pisisik> yes, and it looks like the only thing that left is to decide on a name and to add it in current update cause I guess there is still time
18:22 < bridge> <stepfunn> ah alright that makes a lot of sense now
22:07 < bridge> <louis> @murpi skindb bot is down
22:07 < bridge> <louis> do you know why it's down so often?
23:05 < bridge> <cyberFighter> watfk this button means
23:06 < bridge> <cyberFighter> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1217594379083059271/image.png?ex=66049821&is=65f22321&hm=a8ccfd6d8879eafa193f9a162d7a1e752dd381e8a37da726d8c4bab5201b32ee&
23:06 < bridge> <bts._.> reloading
23:06 < bridge> <cyberFighter> its reloading way too long then
23:07 < bridge> <frazox> i cant play ghuy
23:07 < bridge> <frazox> i cant play guys
23:08 < bridge> <frazox> @bts._. bro answer me
23:11 < bridge> <bts._.> is it just the button not changing? 🤔
23:19 < bridge> <bts._.> you cant reach the master server im guessing
23:27 < bridge> <Ewan> masters messed i[?
23:27 < bridge> <Ewan> masters messed up?
23:29 < bridge> <heinrich5991> works for me. what do you see?
23:30 < bridge> <Ewan> ```
23:30 < bridge> <Ewan> 2024-03-13 16:26:36 E http: https://master2.ddnet.org/ddnet/15/servers.json failed. libcurl error (28): Failed to connect to master2.ddnet.org port 443 after 10000 ms: Timeout was reached
23:30 < bridge> <Ewan> 2024-03-13 16:26:36 E http: https://master3.ddnet.org/ddnet/15/servers.json failed. libcurl error (6): Could not resolve host: master3.ddnet.org
23:30 < bridge> <Ewan> 2024-03-13 16:26:36 E http: https://master1.ddnet.org/ddnet/15/servers.json failed. libcurl error (22): The requested URL returned error: 525
23:30 < bridge> <Ewan> 2024-03-13 16:26:37 E http: https://master4.ddnet.org/ddnet/15/servers.json failed. libcurl error (22): The requested URL returned error: 404
23:30 < bridge> <Ewan> ```
23:31 < bridge> <heinrich5991> can you visit https://master1.ddnet.org/ddnet/15/servers.json in the browser?
23:31 < bridge> <robyt3> Sometimes master1 works after refreshing for me
23:33 < bridge> <zwelf2> Also saw this 525 once (and it gave this link): https://developers.cloudflare.com/support/troubleshooting/cloudflare-errors/troubleshooting-cloudflare-5xx-errors/#error-525-ssl-handshake-failed
23:41 < bridge> <heinrich5991> does it work again for you?
23:42 < bridge> <zwelf2> btw https://ddnet.org now also intermittently returns 525 errors. `curl -I https://ddnet.org`
23:42 < bridge> <heinrich5991> yea, but that isn't as vital
23:45 < bridge> <Ewan> Yes
23:45 < bridge> <Ewan> 😃
23:47 < bridge> <cyberFighter> ah yes it did die