03:03 < ws-client> opengfw is still trending hard on github i get it recommended on all my accounts 05:40 < ws-client> it takes 50 seconds to run shellcheck on the bash script that launches my ddnet server <:justatest:572499997178986510> 05:40 < ws-client> bloat? no 05:42 < bridge> \`\`\`bash 05:42 < bridge> \#!/bin/bash 05:42 < bridge> 05:42 < bridge> nohup ./DDNet-Server & 05:42 < bridge> \`\`\` 05:43 < bridge> ```bash 05:43 < bridge> #!/bin/bash 05:43 < bridge> 05:43 < bridge> nohup ./DDNet-Server & 05:43 < bridge> ``` 05:44 < ws-client> started out as this and then somehow got out of control over the years 05:48 < ws-client> yo btw heinrich ill stop sending you matrix bug reports but i got another 2 bugs right now in the 10 seconds i used matrix to send a code snippet xxxxxD 08:30 < bridge> @heinrich5991 how to community 08:32 < bridge> would be cool if you would explain instead of ignoring 08:38 < bridge> you want community logo for 1 blmapchill server xD ? 08:38 < bridge> of course 08:38 < bridge> https://tenor.com/view/no-nooo-nope-eat-fingerwag-gif-6587305437700023105 08:38 < bridge> it's a community, which needs to be verified :) 08:40 < bridge> Step one. Go open source 08:40 < bridge> Not required currently. 08:41 < bridge> Currently there is no community accepted that wasn't previously too 08:42 < bridge> That's news to me, Avo told me to apply for community so that my server can get out of KoG tab and that currently there is no open source enforcement. 08:42 < bridge> I hope it's not double standards again 08:42 < bridge> Currently it's just as it was before the update. Nothing else 08:43 < bridge> again? 08:43 < bridge> heinrich started discussion about communities on gh 08:44 < bridge> Also why should ddnet suddenly start advertising ur closed source mod on a clean config 08:44 < bridge> There are exactly 0 double standards 08:44 < bridge> Kog will need to go open source too 08:45 < bridge> big mistake, example - I developed a big interesting mod, with its own rules, for example, no swearing and insults, online on the server is small, you force the mod to be open source - some schoolboy starts a server, allows you to insult each other there (like on block servers), adds other garbage because of which the online on his server flies into the skies, and the original mod dies 08:46 < bridge> Good but it's not ddnets task to advertise your awesome mod 08:46 < bridge> original xpanic didnt go open-source - only kurosios copy is alive 08:46 < bridge> alive in terms we have the code of his code only 08:47 < bridge> Also if the mod is closed source and the maintainers are as holes it's nothing better. So your argument is a double sided sword 08:48 < bridge> If your mod is as good as you think, then the advertisement you get will probably overweight the fact that others can copy it in future 08:48 < bridge> good norming 08:48 < bridge> morning 08:48 < bridge> Do you think a second gores mod would instantly be a hit? 08:49 < bridge> why did ddnet not do gores 08:49 < bridge> I dunno xd 08:49 < bridge> it's stupid kog shouldn't really exist 08:49 < bridge> it's just ddnet 08:49 < bridge> It's about protecting players and letting them know which server is real. That's the entire reason why KoG added bw and my server to their list, because we had to fight against fake servers. 08:49 < bridge> If it was not possible for us to join communities, then it would not have to be done in the first place. 08:50 < bridge> You can join communities 08:50 < bridge> @ryozuki do you manually remove files from /boot after installing a new version of kernel? :owo: 08:50 < bridge> BW aswell as I will probably not go open source just for that 08:50 < bridge> Why do you fear so much that your server will be replaced? 08:50 < bridge> Why do you project so much? 08:50 < bridge> You are visible on first install 08:50 < bridge> Or interpret 08:51 < bridge> @fokkonaut just run 10x ddnet servers, get a community logo and after some weeks run blmap chilll server, profit 😄 08:51 < bridge> You probably get most new payers bcs u have 128p support 08:51 < bridge> You don't seem to get it. By fake servers I mean proxy servers who tried to collect IPs of our players, in order to use them for attacks against us 08:51 < bridge> But of you are in communities ur server will have a logo 08:52 < bridge> So better now then never 08:52 < bridge> How does that work can someone just copy (wrong term but I think you get it) and paste IPs? 08:52 < bridge> Please stop trying to make me publish my mod, ty 08:52 < bridge> and where are the requirements for communities? 08:53 < bridge> Then stop converting ddnet to advertise your mod 08:53 < bridge> for example, how many servers should be the minimum, etc. 08:53 < bridge> Do you have some kind of bad mood today? Maybe take a rest for now 08:54 < bridge> There are ofc open questions. But to rephrase it. 08:54 < bridge> 08:54 < bridge> The communities that will be active on first install, will probably need to be oss. 08:54 < bridge> 08:54 < bridge> We can still think about communities that are not pre selected 08:54 < bridge> But they will be less visible 08:54 < bridge> what is `oss`? 08:55 < bridge> Open source 08:55 < bridge> (Software) 08:55 < bridge> He's filling for Ryozuki since he's on vacation 08:55 < bridge> That doesn't make any sense, as then it's better to not have any community at all, cuz then the server is visible at leats. Lol. 08:55 < bridge> i have one open source server online, have discord server, can i get community tab now? :brownbear: 08:55 < bridge> Haha ^^ 08:55 < bridge> Exactly my humor 08:56 < bridge> That your server got this attention at all was a mistake, that's right 08:56 < bridge> I'm not kidding :justatest: 08:56 < bridge> I think though Jupstar's point is that real != safe. 08:56 < bridge> @jupeyy_keks envious? 08:57 < bridge> Btw, following your points we have to remove mods as blockZ from DDNet now (closed src) 08:57 < bridge> Another question, if the author of the mod (source code) has not created his own community, then by forking the mod I create my own, what happens in this case? 08:58 < bridge> Accept that this game is advertised on steam as oss. And that the game only lives thanks to many contributors that voluntarily help it. 08:58 < bridge> 08:58 < bridge> Why should it now make a turn around just because of you being mad af 08:58 < bridge> Lol. It's funny how much you interpret xD 08:59 < bridge> I don't understand this 08:59 < bridge> 08:59 < bridge> The author of the source code did is not the author of the mod idea? 08:59 < bridge> This already happened for e.g 08:59 < bridge> Fng 08:59 < bridge> and how will it be, one FNG community? 09:00 < bridge> You're totally going nuts @jupeyy_keks 09:01 < bridge> It isn't right now. But most players will probably play noby fng 09:01 < bridge> for example, imagine ddnet community not created, i fork ddnet mod, run servers and want get a community tab 09:02 < bridge> you didn't answer, it will be one community or NOBY FNG Communuty, Alive FNG Community and more... 09:03 < bridge> Well that's an open question. I guess at first step we can make existing communities get a higher priority to join 09:03 < bridge> He's not in the mood to answer correctly today 09:04 < bridge> What is generally meant by community, a game mode or a community of players united, for example, by a discord server? 09:04 < bridge> "correctly"? If we knew what was correct we wouldn't be having this conversation tbh 09:05 < bridge> It doesn't help that you try to trashtalk me. It's obvious from the start that you are the mad one 09:05 < bridge> We have an open issue where we discuss the requirements 09:05 < bridge> Projection big time. 09:05 < bridge> Have a good day my dear 09:05 < bridge> xD 09:05 < bridge> Thanks you too bae 09:05 < bridge> <3 09:08 < bridge> 🥺 09:08 < bridge> btw did you see any copy of mrpg/mmotee/infclass with schoolboy as host/developer 09:08 < bridge> have you seen* 09:09 < bridge> I have already met with someone who stole my ideas and implemented them on the block server) 09:09 < bridge> who is it lol 09:09 < bridge> but yes, this is different, these are not running sources 09:10 < bridge> Jupstar projecting his madness onto others today: 09:10 < bridge> > - maintainers are as holes 09:10 < bridge> > - stop converting ddnet to advertise your mod 09:10 < bridge> > - That your server got this attention at all was a mistake, that's right 09:10 < bridge> > - just because of you being mad af 09:10 < bridge> > - It doesn't help that you try to trashtalk me. It's obvious from the start that you are the mad one 09:10 < bridge> Can you please stop to quote out of context 09:10 < bridge> This is pure evil 09:12 < bridge> Just showing that you're the one trashtalking xD Anyways, keep projecting. 09:12 < bridge> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kBxlKhJ397o 09:12 < bridge> it's simply that this is a lie 09:13 < bridge> "Also **if** the mod is closed source and the maintainers are as holes it's nothing better. So your argument is a double sided sword" 09:14 < bridge> Get better arguments than "This is pure evil" or "It's simply that this is a lie" xD 09:14 < bridge> dude can you read 09:14 < bridge> We can discuss this properly, if you want 09:14 < bridge> you completely quoted out of context 09:14 < bridge> just accept that you are 100% evil in this case 09:15 < bridge> Ok, I think you're not able to dicuss properly currently. Tell me when you're in a better state of mind, I'm here 09:17 < bridge> if there are still so many questions about communities, then why are they already in production?) 09:18 < bridge> that wasn't my decision 09:18 < bridge> advertisement of ddnet and kog :poggers2::poggers2: 09:19 < bridge> #7699 09:19 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/7699 09:19 < bridge> if it makes you happy, i personally would accept communities that are closed source, **BUT** not allow them to be filtered on clean config by default 09:19 < bridge> filtered in* 09:23 < bridge> I think a checkbox for verified servers would be enough with the application form 09:23 < bridge> plus an API for the master server, so that verified servers can specify links that would be displayed somewhere in the client 09:24 < bridge> communities are still filtered by name, everyone adds their prefix to the server name 09:25 < bridge> today communities filtered by name, everyone adds their prefix to the server name 09:58 < bridge> aaaeee 10:07 < bridge> I Love that jupi and foko are beeing a little :AFmerumad: at each other and U have matodor basically chatting with himself :gigachad: 10:19 < bridge> ☹️ 10:19 < bridge> 🫂 10:27 < ws-client> @blaiszephyr lmao true 10:54 < bridge> city mod has casino too, hasnt it? 10:56 < bridge> yes, I showed it to some people, but they didn’t just take the idea, they even took the 1 in 1 map 11:04 < ws-client> ye mats C# mod is really cool! <:owo:1154794204871008397> 11:04 < bridge> I seen a few infclass servers, pretending to be better because they have ~~ruined balancing ~~ increased damage and limits. Stronger = better, you know. Add a huge gun and you're a 'next generation'. Have the server located in a different country and you'll get players "by default" because the smaller ping is attractive, especially for newcomers. 11:04 < ws-client> but it sucks that you can not use rude words and its closed source 11:04 < ws-client> i would fork and make it a toxic server axaxax @matodor 11:06 < bridge> 😄 11:08 < bridge> who even is schoolboy 11:09 < bridge> It seems to be DDNet (client) responsibility to give equal (at least comparable) discoverability and convenient access for all servers. 11:09 < bridge> I'm going to quote a big guy: 11:09 < bridge> 11:09 < bridge> > Give even more power to people who DDoS servers and steal mods/players 11:09 < bridge> > Make putting in the work to create and maintain a good mod even less rewarding 11:10 < ws-client> who u quote? 11:10 < bridge> :justatest: 11:11 < bridge> no closed source only gpl, make ddnet gpl 11:11 < ws-client> gpl vs MIT is the new tabs vs spaces or what 11:12 < bridge> good morning its 7:11 11:12 < ws-client> @ryozuki make ur github status "I use gpl BTW" 11:12 < bridge> why do i wake up so early 11:12 < ws-client> good evening its 18:12 11:12 < bridge> asian chiller 11:12 < bridge> why chiller relocate? 11:12 < bridge> aksually its 12:12 11:12 < ws-client> better ping on singapore servers 11:12 < ws-client> for ddnet gaming 11:13 < bridge> No. Ddnet has an interest to make ddnet servers be the most visible. Communities is already a way to make other mods more equal. In this step it additionally makes sure these communities have similar values. 11:13 < bridge> 11:13 < bridge> From ui perspective I've nothing against making mods generally more visible. But it should be clear that these mods are not part of ddnets ecosystem 11:21 < bridge> so to add that: it's not unlikely that ddnet will even enforce certain rules (e.g. "be nice") for these servers 11:21 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/750301928499707935/1198647918803026060/image.png?ex=65bfaadd&is=65ad35dd&hm=e23f3789705067d4143a756e80d2a37415ed3c8179a8a41e7d6f64b43eec758e& how to fix? 11:22 < bridge> don't use beta for now 11:22 < bridge> @learath2 any plans to fix above error? been broken for quite some time now 11:22 < bridge> which beta? its steam client, default 11:23 < bridge> im about Тимофей 11:23 < bridge> how did you get that skin then? 11:23 < bridge> Oop 11:23 < bridge> sorrey) 11:23 < bridge> chiller that can’t really be why you moved 11:23 < bridge> np 11:25 < ws-client> @Ewan no singapore servers are boring af and my internet here is ass anyways xd 11:25 < bridge> so why you move 11:25 < ws-client> only place i would move to for ping is russia so i can play Copy Love Box 11:25 < ws-client> @Ewan secret 11:25 < bridge> @kaffeine0 i can understand that you want your player base being kept together. But I want to make very clear that my point is really about what the player sees first, when starting the ddnet client. 11:25 < bridge> 11:25 < bridge> If there are only servers that are closed source, and in worst case the player base is very toxic. 11:25 < bridge> Then: 11:25 < bridge> 1. ddnet will get the bad review 11:25 < bridge> 2. ddnet, advertised as OSS, seems the opposite 11:25 < bridge> 3. ddnet can almost not control that anymore, because the player base will be mad 11:25 < bridge> 11:26 < bridge> at this point maybe a new game is better that is not called ddnet 11:26 < bridge> chiller is wanted by the government 11:26 < ws-client> <:justatest:572499997178986510> 11:26 < bridge> 0.7 propaganda? 11:26 < bridge> perhaps 11:26 < ws-client> ye i spread the word of 0.7 in local asian communities 11:28 < bridge> > Communities is already a way to make other mods more equal. 11:28 < bridge> As I see, the communities idea (the new servers browser) in its current state only hurts the UX and reduces "other mods" discoverability. 11:28 < bridge> 11:28 < bridge> > In this step it additionally makes sure these communities have similar values. 11:28 < bridge> There are many servers which do not care. On the first step you reduce the visibility for everyone except DDNet, on the second step you add requirements to get an half of that visibility back, pretending that you're improving something. 11:28 < bridge> Decide what you want: if you want better UX for the players then try asking players. If you want more contributions to DDNet then ask for that. 11:28 < ws-client> woah replies in irc 11:28 < ws-client> i can see replies! 11:29 < bridge> the UX is not even part of this discussion in my opinion. 11:29 < bridge> 11:29 < bridge> i never said i like the UI at all 11:29 < bridge> I see your point. You care about DDNet reputation. How the request to be "open source" matches that idea? 11:31 < bridge> For me UI is just destroying and making a nonsense all this approach of "hey everyone! do you wanna be one of our communities? then publish your code and we'll give you an half of what you have a few months ago". 11:31 < bridge> For me UI is just destroying and making a nonsense all this approach of "hey everyone! do you wanna be one of our communities? then publish your code and we'll give you an half of what you had a few months ago". 11:31 < bridge> i don't understand how it does not match? 11:31 < bridge> 11:31 < bridge> this is how ddnet was build. 11:31 < bridge> 11:31 < bridge> I can also rephrase it: 11:32 < bridge> ddnet's values rn are, being transparent (donations), being open source, being "nice" <- not being too toxic.. ofc this is a hard to moderate topic 11:32 < bridge> 11:32 < bridge> 11:32 < bridge> so the player that starts ddnet, should see these values reflected 11:32 < bridge> The one introduced by curl was fixed by Robyt before I ever got home 11:32 < bridge> oh ok, sry then 11:33 < bridge> well if you ask me, i'd also be ok if communities would be completely moved to a new tab and internet will be as before. 11:33 < bridge> 11:33 < bridge> again, for me this is not a about UI design 11:33 < bridge> You want to have a non-toxic servers visible by default. Yet you say you don't see a sense in applying the "be nice" policy to those servers; you want to have them open sourcing the code instead. 11:33 < bridge> Does it make any sense? 11:33 < bridge> i just want to make clear, that if comminities will, however it will look like, be shown as the first, default look into the client. 11:33 < bridge> Then these communities should share ddnet's value up to a certain amount 11:34 < bridge> as said, i can imagine that the "be nice" rules will apply too additionally 11:34 < ws-client> banning toxic servers is fucked 11:34 < bridge> The day that first issue was made I knew there was no way we could make anyone happy with that 11:34 < bridge> right now we dont even have guidelines, so i cannot foresee how it will look like 11:35 < bridge> it's not at all about banning 11:35 < bridge> this is already completely wrong. 11:35 < bridge> 11:35 < bridge> i give a shit about if u go closed source, or take 10000000 euros to play your game 11:35 < bridge> Open source and players being toxic are two different things. Open source wont solve this problem 11:35 < ws-client> agreed 11:36 < ws-client> also being toxic is not a problem 11:36 < bridge> Toxic is a problem 11:36 < ws-client> i see ddnet rules more as a problem 11:36 < bridge> There are kids playing this game 11:36 < bridge> how does that argument help. i said that I, personally, see both as a requirement sooner or later 11:36 < ws-client> if their parents dont want kids in the toxic internet they should install OpenGFW on their router 11:36 < bridge> bcs there 100% will be bad servers, and this will influence ddnet's decision making 11:36 < bridge> Chiller is a freespeech absolutist. Best ignore his opinions on that specific matter 11:37 < ws-client> :c 11:37 < ws-client> :c 11:37 < bridge> The right to say racist slurs and cyber bully kids shall not be breached by the ddtyrants 11:38 < ws-client> +1 11:38 < ws-client> also i like using "kys" as smalltalk o.O 11:38 < bridge> See, delulu, best not pay too much attention 🙃 11:38 < bridge> I doubt that closed source servers will influence ddnets decision 11:38 < ws-client> whats delulu xd 11:39 < ws-client> > Delulu is an internet slang used to describe the belief that one can influence one's own destiny through sheer willpower. Derived from the English language word "delusional", the term has its origins in K-pop communities where the term delulu is used to refer to individuals who were in a parasocial relationship with celebrities and had hopes of meeting them someday. The term has subsequently been adopted by Generation Z and 11:39 < ws-client> Generation Alpha, popularized by viral Tiktok trends such as the catchphrase, "delulu is the solulu", which implies that self-confidence is the solution. Wikipedia 11:39 < bridge> but as said. it's about making 100% clear that these servers are not part of ddnet's ecosystem 11:39 < ws-client> lerato flexing english agaun 11:39 < bridge> Which is in the new UI visible 11:39 < bridge> You can see DDNets logo infront of the server 11:39 < ws-client> i love how "tiktok" is mentioned on wikipedia pages explaining words xd 11:39 < bridge> if u install a minecraft mod and join a custom minecraft server, and ppl there are mad and the mod sucks 11:39 < bridge> 11:39 < bridge> Then it's unlikely u blame mojang for it 11:40 < ws-client> no we blame microsoft for that 11:40 < bridge> only as long as ddnet servers are the top ones 11:40 < ws-client> i wrote magnus an email when my kog account didnt work 11:40 < bridge> I dont get why people shouldnt enjoy other gamemodes aswell, this will kill the entire ecosystem 11:40 < ws-client> you didnt? 11:41 < ws-client> ok sorri i close irc now enuff trolling 11:41 < bridge> this is just so wrong, where did i ever say that? 11:41 < bridge> you are 100% ignoring my arguments 11:41 < bridge> It implies it. Its in peoples nature to join full servers and I do have proof for this thesis 11:42 < bridge> Fwiw, I did want to keep the ddnet tab just to make it obvious which servers we provide support for 11:42 < bridge> i don't deny that, and if we add a tab "toxic servers not related to ddnet, be careful" then idc if we list all toxic servers there. 11:43 < bridge> Wow... so you are telling us that we dont care about our servers? and we are toxic? 11:43 < bridge> ggs 11:43 < bridge> i can only repeat myself. MY point, which might be different to other ddnet maintainer's point, is really about the first experience in the game 11:43 < bridge> kog is not toxic 11:44 < bridge> But we do care about the experience too 11:44 < bridge> So do block servers 11:44 < bridge> you try to make me say smth i NEVER said 11:44 < bridge> and other communities 11:44 < bridge> @jupeyy_keks I don't care about communities or advertises. I see DDNet as the main client for Teeworlds, and thus I want it to have a reasonable UI, allowing it to be the universal client. 11:44 < bridge> You want DDNet servers be separated from the "unofficial" servers, and you want only "nice" servers be visible by default. That's fine, let's add a "18+" checkbox, and make all servers exposing their "be nice" status to the master server. 11:44 < bridge> It would be a practical solution for the actual problem of "players randomly joining toxic servers". 11:44 < bridge> > and if we add a tab "toxic servers not related to ddnet, be careful" then idc if we list all toxic servers there. 11:44 < bridge> but apparently not about being an OPEN, TRANSPARENT community 11:44 < bridge> I'm guessing "might be toxic" is the issue there 11:44 < bridge> what's so hard to understand about this? 11:44 < bridge> we are open and transparent, even about the funding 11:44 < bridge> lol 11:45 < bridge> we are just not OPEN SOURCE 11:45 < bridge> good then you agree with my argument 11:45 < bridge> please different between how we handle communities and how we handle source code 11:45 < bridge> this are two different things 11:45 < bridge> that's your opinion 11:46 < bridge> It's kinda fact though. What does the visibility of the source code have to do with community management? 11:46 < bridge> i am also part of the community.. the developer part.. 11:46 < bridge> 11:46 < bridge> How is your kog community open about that? 11:46 < bridge> Depends on what you wanna do, we are searching for devs 🙂 11:46 < bridge> i think you downplay the word community at this point 11:47 < bridge> We posted some news about that 11:47 < bridge> There is no developer community for kog though. They just indirectly leech off of ours 😄 11:47 < ws-client> kog sucks at open communication too btw. Its only discord -.- 11:47 < bridge> Well, this is your fault xD You wanted us to streamline it for the features 😄 11:48 < bridge> I mean it's completely fine under the current license. So I don't really have an issue with it anyway 11:49 < bridge> I would like to see everyone open source their mods, but I also know humans are not built like that. 11:49 < bridge> f3 11:50 < bridge> at this point i'm rather for reverting communities than keeping them. 11:50 < bridge> 11:50 < bridge> Apparently that was less of a problem 11:50 < bridge> 11:50 < bridge> KoG tab can be renamed to Community and all problems solved 11:50 < bridge> should servers with toxic shit in them even be in community tab 11:51 < bridge> we try to make universal rules for community guide lines so mods that weren't in KoG tab have a chance, but instead even those are argumentining against it 11:51 < bridge> i defenitely don't want new players to not see ddnet servers as official 11:51 < bridge> (looking at fokkonaut with all the slurs) 11:52 < bridge> But you see DDNets logo next to the server? Whats the problem about it? 11:52 < bridge> i gave you the arguments, you don't want to hear them. whats the point? 11:52 < bridge> You want a generic client & support even backwards comp. 11:52 < bridge> Doesn't stand out that much anymore now that everyone has a logo 11:52 < bridge> I would like to see everyone working on ddnet base game and making their mod as plugins for that. 11:52 < bridge> I also 'd love to see the idea of DDoS attacks forgotten, and all servers be nice. But you're absolutely right, "humans are not built like that." 11:53 < bridge> Well not everyone but you get the gist of it. 11:55 < bridge> i am 100% for permissive licenses or no licenses 11:55 < bridge> 11:55 < bridge> i give a shit about how ppl want to design their community, fundings etc. 11:55 < bridge> 11:55 < bridge> i am 100% for more discoverbility, even to a extend where we have KoG tab back 11:55 < bridge> 11:55 < bridge> i am 100% against destroying ddnet's values for new players already 11:57 < bridge> The discoverbility could be solved if we group server. DDNet is hosting 664/1044 servers. KoG 91 11:57 < bridge> The discoverbility could be solved if we group servers. DDNet is hosting 664/1044 servers. KoG 91 11:57 < bridge> So if we add proper grouping, you would have more discoverbility, because the server list doesnt gets flooded as of now 11:58 < bridge> Grouping is what I wanted from communities, this current UX is far from optimal 11:59 < bridge> (kaffeine is hosting 1 server with 8-16 players daily, yet complaining so loudly, like if the infclass community has 816 players instead) 12:00 < bridge> (kaffeine is hosting 1 server with 8-16 players daily, yet complaining so loudly, like if the infclass community had 816 players instead) 12:00 < bridge> ok but when buff medic 12:09 < bridge> Everybody is against you today!!1!1! 12:11 < bridge> Without teeworlds being open source you couldn't even be against me today 12:11 < bridge> So maybe value it a bit 12:11 < bridge> And the work ppl put into the client ppl use to join your server 12:12 < bridge> I do not support slurs and actively ban people for that when it goes too far. I also ban people for doxxing, threatening, and so on. A little bit of toxicity is amongst every teeworlds server, even DDNet. 12:12 < bridge> But when things go too far, I definitely do something about it specifically for younger players. 12:12 < bridge> idc about toxic or not here 12:12 < bridge> being open source should be a requirement to be listed as a community 12:12 < bridge> simply because it should be open source 12:12 < bridge> there is no need for any other reason 12:12 < bridge> also i dislike open source word, i prefer free software 12:13 < bridge> Lol, you're so damn weird today xD 12:13 < bridge> Really, get some rest bro 12:13 < bridge> I don't sell ddnet under value just to justify your needs 12:13 < bridge> It's funny, you tell @avolicious to not put things in your mouth, yet you do the same 12:14 < bridge> Keep projecting, mr. delusional, wont argue with you anymore 12:14 < bridge> a good quote 12:14 < bridge> > Proprietary software development does not contribute to our community, but its developers often want handouts from us. Free software users can offer free software developers strokes for the ego—recognition and gratitude—but it can be very tempting when a business tells you, “Just let us put your package in our proprietary program, and your program will be used by many thousands of people!” The temptation can be powerful, but in the long r 12:14 < bridge> But in programmatic enough to try to value your work as good as possible without that 12:14 < bridge> But I'm programmatic enough to try to value your work as good as possible without that 12:16 < bridge> u mean pragmatic? 12:17 < bridge> But I'm pragmatic enough to try to value your work as good as possible without that 12:19 < bridge> My point (besides to my opinion that the UI decision is frustrating) is that there should be a pragmatical, real reason for any requirement. 12:19 < bridge> > open source should be a requirement to be listed as a community 12:19 < bridge> Do you care about the players or about the devs or about DDNet contribution? What is the goal? 12:19 < bridge> its a ideological requirement 12:19 < bridge> free software gives end users the most rights 12:19 < bridge> we should strive for that 12:20 < bridge> ddnet is open source, mods features should be open source 12:20 < bridge> ddnet is open source, mods featured should be open source 12:20 < bridge> Imagine every Minecraft server needs to be open source in order to be allowed to show their icon using the official protocol next to their server in the list 12:20 < bridge> its ideological, i believe all users should fully own the software they use and be able to fullfil their 4 rights 12:20 < bridge> (ik, Minecraft doesnt "advertise" open source) 12:20 < bridge> (0) to run the program, (1) to study and change the program in source code form, (2) to redistribute exact copies, and (3) to distribute modified versions. 12:21 < bridge> but its a weird take since minecraft is closed source itself 12:21 < bridge> and i wouldnt be against that if miencraft was open source and required that 12:21 < bridge> in fact i would be extremely happy 12:22 < bridge> If I am not mistaken, the initial idea was that when the creator of a mod leaves and closes servers, the mod should still remain and can be hosted by others if wanted. 12:22 < bridge> Where did this approach go? Why can't we allow DDNet to be a contributor in a private repository, or hand the code to the community after we "leave"? 12:22 < bridge> I see, I wanted to assume it. Then I'd repeat my comment: 12:22 < bridge> > In case of teeworlds, permissive license attracts more developers, which is beneficial for the players. 12:22 < bridge> 12:22 < bridge> This ideological requirement can hurt mods and thus hurt the game and DDNet. That's how I see it, and as I see, many mod devs agree. 12:22 < bridge> that idea is a result of having some of the 4 rights 12:22 < bridge> free software gives u 12:22 < bridge> > permissive license attracts more developers, 12:22 < bridge> tbh i dont care about that 12:23 < bridge> better idea than forcing people to go open source for a logo which basically only protects a server from being faked and makes it distinguishable 12:23 < bridge> > The GNU GPL is not Mr. Nice Guy. It says no to some of the things that people sometimes want to do. There are users who say that this is a bad thing—that the GPL “excludes” some proprietary software developers who “need to be brought into the free software community.” 12:23 < bridge>