00:59 < bridge> damn now they're even impersonating fred 01:00 < bridge> the spambots? 01:01 < bridge> @tsfreddie how could you promote such malware 01:01 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1170513074365665290/image.png?ex=65595040&is=6546db40&hm=acba45abd0e70abe2bb398a7da885b212a0af2feb9e8d202b770a958a6e1caa6& 01:01 < bridge> :owo: 01:01 < bridge> so did deen 01:02 < bridge> :O 01:02 < bridge> I'm pretty sure they just copied every name under `https://ddnet.org/staff/` 01:03 < bridge> ```2023-11-05 02:03:31 I chat: *** 'TsFreddie' has left the game (You have been banned (spambotlikedeen))``` 01:03 < bridge> 01:05 < bridge> ye, i'm blown away while i was finding something that could work with sfx designing other than just using a standard daw. this looks pretty insane for non-tempo based effects 01:25 < bridge> apparently blockhead's rendering is done with godot 01:30 < bridge> iirc they were doing roby before deen 01:32 < bridge> it's probably just randomly chosen 13:36 < bridge> ``` 13:36 < bridge> pTarget->TakeDamage((vec2(0.f, -1.0f) + Temp) * Strength, g_pData->m_Weapons.m_Hammer.m_pBase->m_Damage, 13:36 < bridge> m_pPlayer->GetCID(), m_Core.m_ActiveWeapon);``` 13:36 < bridge> 13:36 < bridge> 13:36 < bridge> how to determine which direction the player pressed for this function? 13:46 < bridge> that's not how hammer works 13:46 < bridge> hammer checks which entities are possible hittable in the dir you are looking 13:47 < bridge> but if u hit it, the cursor dir doesn't really matter 17:00 < bridge> why these spambots don't get banned by some sort of text match? 17:11 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> accounts are the only way 17:14 < bridge> ? my idea was: every message has to go through the server and therefore can be filtered before it is send to the other clients 17:15 < bridge> while i agree, nobody seems interested in having a halfway solution like this 17:16 < bridge> if it was proposed it probably wouldnt be merged 17:20 < bridge> doesn't seem like such a bad idea. a message could be identified by a number of factors like content, lenght, sender, and idk. it's not necessarily a halfway solution 17:22 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> what if there are false flags 17:22 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> ddnet 1984 17:24 < bridge> it's not necessarily a problem. if some spam is detected it could just mute the user or just not sending that message to other players. 17:24 < bridge> Best case scenario there aren't any x) 17:26 < bridge> guys i didn't mean a full automatic solution: just adding a pattern by mod/admin on an as-needed basis 17:27 < bridge> well, that would be easily avoidable and probably end up as beeing useless. So I would understand it not beeing merged 17:28 < bridge> user bans are easily avoidable too, but it works somehow … 17:29 < bridge> they do not work... :/ 17:29 < bridge> The ones who really should get banned aren't 17:29 < bridge> ^^ 17:33 < bridge> Not really, accounts wouldn't solve spambots for very long, the spammers could just make new accounts 17:33 < bridge> I can merge it just so everyone sees how fast it gets bypassed and stops talking about a filter 17:34 < bridge> not if the accounts are tied to something like email. i feel like this has been said a billion times 17:34 < bridge> So they can make new emails, how does that stop anyone? 17:34 < bridge> emails are hard to make 17:34 < bridge> I have infinite emails addresses with one gmail 17:34 < bridge> no 17:35 < bridge> maybe if it was tied to a phone number 17:35 < bridge> but nobody wants that 17:35 < bridge> Tied to SSN, real consequences for real dickheads 17:35 < bridge> that's for sure 17:35 < bridge> well it seems to be working for kog 😃 17:36 < bridge> <_gwendal> i think kog is tied to phone numbers ? not sure 17:36 < bridge> because there account system is far from beeing automated 17:36 < bridge> mods need to manually accept new players 17:36 < bridge> why would the account system need to be completely automated 17:36 < bridge> because their account system is far from beeing automated 17:37 < bridge> Are you going to be the one manually accepting the accounts? That's so kind of you offering your time like that 17:39 < bridge> well, ddnet has a fairly big playerbase... 17:39 < bridge> it would not be too much for mods to handle 17:40 < bridge> also having a hard time keeping a serious conversation when everything you're saying is masked in sarcasm learath 17:41 < bridge> well, and for asian players? as far as I know we don't have that many of them...? And getting some english speakers talk with chinese ones may not be the bestest idea 17:41 < bridge> well, and for asian players? as far as I know we don't have that many mods for them...? And getting some english speakers talk with chinese ones may not be the bestest idea 17:42 < bridge> it's still a burden for mods + players 17:42 < bridge> idk, it seems worth it to prevent spammers and blockers and whatnot 17:42 < bridge> vouch system? 17:42 < bridge> What happens when someone spams 8000 account registrations? 17:42 < bridge> then they get denied 17:42 < bridge> Like every player can vouch for 1 or 2 players 17:43 < bridge> and each player needs 2 vouches to be seen by the automantion or smt 17:43 < bridge> Also thought about such a system 17:43 < bridge> then just 2 randoms need to get accepted somehow and whole system is useless 17:44 < bridge> Add some spice to it. If a vouched player gets a punishment, the voucher gets half the punishment 17:44 < bridge> if that works it will kill the userbase ^^ 17:45 < bridge> What is the advantage to having the mods in the middle? There is no way they go through and deny 8000 applications. So we are assuming an automated system can catch and deny these 17:45 < bridge> Or we get some money to hire staff 17:45 < bridge> yeah well. what I meant by that is, 2 guys spammers get accepted for some reason. 17:45 < bridge> From that point it's a matter of time before there's thousands of spammers accepted. a punishment wont do anything 17:45 < bridge> or they can just expire 17:45 < bridge> and not be explicitly allowed 17:46 < bridge> but Ewan, how do you know those 8k applications need to be denied 17:46 < bridge> I think there's merrit to that. If the vouching player gets a punishiment the player that he has vouched to should be in question 17:46 < bridge> Its just for the start 17:47 < bridge> If you want a full automated system, you need a fresh start. But using existing stats, its impossible to add on top without having some sort of manual review 17:48 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> I know where the shader code is, but where is the shader LOGIC located? I want to see if I can decrypt it and make something out of it 17:48 < bridge> wdym 17:48 < bridge> How will mods even use this system? A stream of applications are coming in, how will they spot the legit ones in it? 17:49 < bridge> i hope it'd be fairly obvious 17:49 < bridge> even if it's faily obvious and only takes 1 second per applications, that's a few hours to go through 8000 applications 17:49 < bridge> even if it's faily obvious and only takes 1 second per application, that's a few hours to go through 8000 applications 17:50 < bridge> it's like you don't even read 17:50 < bridge> I wasn't criticising it. I just think it's a big reason why you have no spammers. 17:50 < bridge> Does the kog community also have diehards spammers/ddosers? If so it would be interesting to see how are you doing after automation takes place 17:50 < bridge> Just accept the legit/known players (I am talking about the vouch system btw) and they can vouch for 1-3 friends of them that way you don't have to manually go through them (atleast not as much) 17:50 < bridge> Honestly the only way I see something that manual working out is if we just pray to god that the spammer spamming messages wont spam account applications 17:50 < bridge> Accounts dont stop ddos 17:50 < bridge> Captchas would be a good start tho 17:50 < bridge> I was just wondering if you had those kinda players x). I don't play kog thatoften 17:51 < bridge> So no new players ever again except by vouch? Good luck convincing anyone that's a good idea 17:51 < bridge> hmm you gotta a point 17:51 < bridge> Ouch 17:52 < bridge> I just wouldn't put humans in the middle of the process, that's like an extremely obvious bottleneck to overwhelm 17:52 < bridge> Captchas, some other hard pow, it has to be automated, the more manual the process the less robust it is to any sophisticated attacker 17:53 < bridge> ig it's just gotta be as hard for the spammers to make accounts as for humans/mods to detect them 17:56 < bridge> No harm in adding a simple spam filter and hoping the attacker is just not smart enough to bypass it is not the worst idea. If anyone wants to help that's what I would do 17:58 < bridge> Or if you want to get more mileage out of it something like a fuzzy checksum based spam detection would last a little longer 18:05 < bridge> Or regex filters that can be added through rcon so mods can filter it out, that'd also be not the worst idea 18:06 < bridge> that's actually quite smart as it should take more time for the spammer to avoid it than for the mods + the dev to make it? 18:08 < bridge> yes, efficient use of time and mods are much smarter than whatever naive algorithm we can think of 18:40 < bridge> not really. all my friends couldn't create accounts there. they are relatively new, but they do have a few finishes. there are too few non-account servers on kog for us to vote the easy maps that we need, so I straight up can't play kog with my friends 18:41 < bridge> their applications were first rejected, then ignored and at one point no new applications were possible due to discord channel count limits or smth 18:43 < bridge> :feelsbadman: 18:47 < bridge> messed up 18:47 < bridge> their problem is relying on discord 18:54 < bridge> chat captcha would be good for spam 18:54 < bridge> i think some other games have it 18:54 < bridge> the new kog account system is a dumpster fire lmfao 18:56 < bridge> yea 18:56 < bridge> it's not awesome 18:56 < bridge> but it's working fundamentally 18:56 < bridge> bad user experience = doesn't work 20:15 < bridge> Im not even sure which issue you try to solve with accounts? 20:16 < bridge> What Spam? In the Chat? That should be a non issue in the first place. Every client can mute other clients so everyone can build their own spam filter or mute players if needed. 20:23 < bridge> would you mute deen :kek: 20:24 < bridge> if you let the spammers stay you are pretty much just encouraging ddnet lobbies to become malware spreading spaces 20:24 < bridge> the average user is not gonna think to or want to mute these ppl 20:24 < bridge> it's just gonna reflect negatively on ddnet 20:24 < bridge> wow these ppl obviously don't care about their players 20:25 < bridge> If i get annoyed by his messages yes 20:26 < bridge> but it's not deen that's what I mean 20:26 < bridge> if you mute the spambot you also mute deen 20:26 < bridge> Depends on how I mute 20:26 < bridge> I usually mute per id and only rarely the names 20:27 < bridge> the bots reconnect every 2 or 3 minutes 20:27 < bridge> gl keeping up 20:28 < bridge> I see that point. If that is so important than you can still make spamming impossible rather than optimizing the punishment for it. 20:28 < bridge> 20:28 < bridge> Punishing behavior in games seems wrong to me. Why not change the game to disallow the behavior. 20:29 < bridge> Oh i have not seen those. But then yea I would go for their names or message content depending on what is more consistent 20:41 < bridge> Yes the goal is to make the spamming impossible in the first place 20:43 < bridge> ddnet client cannot mute players based on message content 20:51 < bridge> free nudes 20:51 < bridge> https://discord.gg/tik-tok-xxx 20:51 < bridge> @everyone @here 20:51 < bridge> @nikosaccount 20:51 < bridge> @Discord Mod 20:51 < bridge> FBI 20:51 < bridge> we need help 21:36 < bridge> <._.stasus._.> free nudes 💋 21:36 < bridge> <._.stasus._.> 21:36 < bridge> <._.stasus._.> https://discord.gg/esaxxx 21:36 < bridge> <._.stasus._.> 21:36 < bridge> <._.stasus._.> @everyone 21:36 < bridge> @Discord Mod 21:56 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> I managed to make sound happen when you open and close the top menu! 21:56 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> If I merge this I will change the sounds, but for now I'm using Terraria's sound effects as a placeholder. 21:56 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1170829006472495105/2023-11-05_15-52-15.mp4?ex=655a767c&is=6548017c&hm=49a523df0c7a60125d2ed8c41427706174828ff26624cec63865e3ba4e80677a& 21:56 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> Wait hold on 21:57 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> I managed to make sound happen when you open and close the top menu! 21:57 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> If I merge this I will change the sounds, but for now I'm using Terraria's sound effects as a placeholder. 21:57 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1170829333061963847/2023-11-05_15-57-19.mp4?ex=655a76c9&is=654801c9&hm=10cb3b941a66d3d357fc5df0c7cd7caac9a465afb525e01e3cfa86e1a0dcfede& 21:58 < bridge> idk if im a big fan of having sounds in the ui 21:58 < bridge> maybe if they are off by default 21:59 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> yeah. just like the fucking sit pose 21:59 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> nice try 21:59 < bridge> wat 21:59 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> when there was the whole sit pose arguement people wanted an option with it being off by default 21:59 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> which is like... why even bother 22:00 < bridge> it would be silly to deny a feature that some people obviouslyt want 22:00 < bridge> but if the amount of people that want it is not the majority than it can just be off by default 22:00 < bridge> you don't want to go against the average user's wishes 22:02 < bridge> also where would these sounds come from 22:03 < bridge> afaik all sounds in the game so far are from teeworlds 22:03 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> i.. make them? 22:03 < bridge> how are u gonna make them match 22:03 < bridge> Thanks, I hate it. When PR? 22:04 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> why so many questions 22:04 < bridge> is there a problem 22:04 < bridge> Can DDNet organize a (preferably public) blocklist? The spammers change IPs but I don't believe that they can afford enough resources to deal with global bans. 22:04 < bridge> 22:04 < bridge> Spammer bot joins a DDNet server => the server submits the IP to the global ddnet blocklist => all other servers pull the update and also ban that IP. 22:04 < bridge> i would love that 22:04 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> ?? 22:04 < bridge> i had collected a few IPs in the past and asked noby if he would share his but got no response 22:04 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> oh well. i guess its just another thing to stack onto ddnet 2.0 22:05 < bridge> what is the point in not sharing the banlist anyway 22:05 < bridge> literally just makes the rest of the community suffer 22:05 < bridge> I also have a list but it does not really help for a fellow lonely server. 22:05 < bridge> yeah 22:07 < bridge> i don't think it's uncool i just think it'd be the first introduction of any foreign sounds and it would be for something as minor as the menu 22:07 < bridge> just seems sorta weird 22:08 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> @bencie. 22:12 < bridge> ohh nice lol 22:13 < bridge> i used to have a soundpack which was mostly terraria sounds 22:14 < bridge> for like pistol and hammer swing etc 22:15 < bridge> good one 22:29 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1170837312297517246/ima_0b244fd.png?ex=655a7e38&is=65480938&hm=aeff9c5d67b933d20724f6c122fb6a67ff11da5dec39261ee140eb3ed972aa43& 22:29 < bridge> What happend 22:29 < bridge> spammers joined advertising leaked nude discord servers 22:30 < bridge> chillerbot-ux can :p 22:30 < bridge> cool? 22:30 < bridge> 😃 22:30 < bridge> How do accounts make spamming impassible? 22:30 < bridge> cuz spammers can't get accounts 22:31 < bridge> Can they then also not play? 22:31 < bridge> i guess you aren't familiar with the spammers we're talking about 22:31 < bridge> No 22:32 < bridge> But I assume they are owned by someone who also plays the game 22:32 < bridge> they're not real people. they're fake clients set up on a server somewhere that just join and spam their preprogrammed message advertising a bot client 22:32 < bridge> it's hard to ban them by name because they are always changing 22:32 < bridge> at first they were colors 22:33 < bridge> now they seem to take a random pick of all admin/moderator names 22:33 < bridge> So you want to use accounts to make bans stronger and not make spamming impossible 22:33 < bridge> well these spammers could never get accounts in the first place because in theory they'd be backed by some sort of other identifier that everyone has 1 of 22:33 < bridge> like an email 22:34 < bridge> Then they use their email? 22:34 < bridge> the spam bots are not real people 22:34 < bridge> Ewan, has Robyt said before. emails aren't hard to make. Accounts by themselves wont solve anything 22:34 < bridge> they are hard to make 22:34 < bridge> Ewan, has Robyt said before, emails aren't hard to make. Accounts by themselves wont solve anything 22:35 < bridge> Are they created by AI? 22:35 < bridge> ??? 22:35 < bridge> harder than the average spammer is willing to put effort into i'd bet 22:35 < bridge> I assumed the bots were operated by a human 22:35 < bridge> making an email required manual human intervention 22:35 < bridge> making an email requires manual human intervention 22:35 < bridge> I'd bet you differently 22:35 < bridge> Yea same manual intervention it took the spammer to download the game and code the spambots 22:36 < bridge> Now there is one extra step to login 22:36 < bridge> Which every player would have to go to. And also the spammer can do. 22:36 < bridge> I don't know that much about mails. But I'd trust Robyt when he said he had endless email adresses with one gmail 22:36 < bridge> I still do not see how you intent not giving out accounts to malicious people 22:37 < bridge> who is rearranging channels xd 22:37 < bridge> This is the exact same topic we had a few hours ago 22:37 < bridge> I assume he meant the + feature of mail. Could be solved with one regex. But yea you can also register 100 gmails 22:37 < bridge> given the account system is fully automated, which isn't even guaranteed, it'd go something like this 22:37 < bridge> spammer makes a new email and joins the server to spam with their single allowed client at a time 22:37 < bridge> account gets banned within minutes, and by extension, so does the email 22:37 < bridge> the spammer then has to create a new email for every client they want to have join & spam 22:38 < bridge> Not really I’m trying to understand how ewan thinks that accounts are not used for harder punishment but instead make spamming impassible 22:38 < bridge> unless they're hosting their own mailserver, emails typically require captchas to create. and it's easy to detect burner emails anyway 22:39 < bridge> Yes you just proof my point. Spamming is still possible. Just punished harder using accounts. 22:39 < bridge> I suggest to not punish spammers at all but Filter the chat instead. 22:39 < bridge> if accounts have to be manually verified then it would be very very hard 22:40 < bridge> To Spam twice 22:40 < bridge> But you still have to be caught once 22:40 < bridge> Just ban all players and i can ensure you the problem is solved 22:40 < bridge> and that's where Learath ideas come in. "Or regex filters that can be added through rcon so mods can filter it out, that'd also be not the worst idea" 22:40 < bridge> And then you life ban a player from playing the game for using the chat 22:40 < bridge> either by moderator, or by vouch system, or by some sort of automated system which checks how many accounts have been created by that ip + with emails on that domain + with emails whose names are gibberish + whatever 22:41 < bridge> Yes that makes way more sense than accounts 22:41 < bridge> there is #✉-create-a-ticket in the rare event that someone has a false positive 22:41 < bridge> i still do not think you understand how the spambots work 22:41 < bridge> this is not a real person 22:41 < bridge> the only info we have on the person behind it is that he owns a vps at some ip lol 22:41 < bridge> @mpft: technically allowing spam and then punishing it is still a bad process. 22:42 < bridge> nobody is allowing spam 22:42 < bridge> It purely depends on the motivation of the spammer anyway 22:42 < bridge> I mean technically. You can spam in the chat. If that wasn’t possible due to ratelimits and filters. The problem would be solved. 22:42 < bridge> sure but the filters would need to adapt 22:43 < bridge> As said depends on motivation of them 22:43 < bridge> Anyways. I doubt that if accounts ever become a thing it will be to stop spammers x) 22:43 < bridge> It’s like saying. Everyone who moves in freeze tiles gets banned. Instead of locking movement. 22:43 < bridge> It's same for accounts 22:43 < bridge> chiller what are u talking about 22:43 < bridge> this is not for ppl who message too many times 22:43 < bridge> But you both could team up and provide a solution xd 22:43 < bridge> this is for ppl who promote a bot client 22:43 < bridge> I don’t like your approach 22:44 < bridge> Bans are bad 22:44 < bridge> a bot client whose virustotal scan very strongly suggests it's intentional malware 22:44 < bridge> Just Filter bot ads 22:44 < bridge> whats the tea this time 22:44 < bridge> He wants to use accounts to ban people from the game 22:44 < bridge> Xd 22:44 < bridge> Rage bait 22:45 < bridge> i mean i would happily collect chinese ids just to ban them 22:45 < bridge> :greenthing: :greenthing: :greenthing: :greenthing: :greenthing: 22:45 < bridge> Xd 22:46 < bridge> especially the ppl who keep lureing ppl out and doxxing our players 22:47 < bridge> the leak of national database made doxxing entry barrier so low that kids are doing it for cool factors 22:47 < bridge> Let's just do lan events from now on 22:48 < bridge> oh man i would love to host lan events 22:48 < bridge> yes! 22:48 < bridge> In chiller Villa 22:48 < bridge> its just not legally viable 22:48 < bridge> here at least 22:49 < bridge> ive been wanting to do a lan fng tournament since 2014 22:49 < bridge> :kek: 22:50 < bridge> partially bcs ppl keep calling me bot and i want to destroy them in person (back in 2014 i mean) 22:50 < bridge> in jopstis big garden 22:50 < bridge> also my coughing came back this weekend 22:50 < bridge> Outdoor lan best 22:51 < bridge> Why 22:51 < bridge> i tried to eat healthier yesterday and i felt asleep at noon 22:51 < bridge> wake up 5pm. then fell asleep at 11pm again 22:52 < bridge> Yes healthy food is the worst 22:52 < bridge> illegal gathering is a criminal offense 22:52 < bridge> :nouis: 22:52 < bridge> A lan party? 22:52 < bridge> With friends? 22:52 < bridge> Or you wanted a big event? 22:52 < bridge> with enough ppl probably 22:53 < bridge> yeah, what's considered "illegal gathering" 22:53 < bridge> like 10+ 22:54 < bridge> I know a few guys who would have big problems :Shrugeg: 22:54 < bridge> I always thought I’m western brain washed. And china could be chill. But Fred you make it sound no fun. 22:54 < bridge> im probably exaggerating 22:54 < bridge> I See 22:55 < bridge> like if you eat out with a whole classroom of 45 ppl is probably fine 22:55 < bridge> How legal is it for you to complain about china in this discord? 22:55 < bridge> but i dont think getting 10 ppl online to a place to play a unregistered video game is a good look 22:55 < bridge> i dont mind dying 22:56 < bridge> mood 22:57 < bridge> speaking of complaining. someone in other discord did once link our irclogs and says he found my work info and tried to threat me 22:57 < bridge> :kek: 22:58 < bridge> i dont think a google search is that threatening 22:59 < bridge> lmfao 23:03 < bridge> imma get some breakfast 23:04 < bridge> one day fred is gonna disappear from the internet 23:04 < bridge> and we will know he's in prison for 200 years for unlicensed internet use 23:04 < bridge> among various other china crimes 23:04 < bridge> i could disappear rn if you want 23:04 < bridge> no thx 23:05 < bridge> WTF 23:06 < bridge> can chiller see discord stickers 23:06 < bridge> probably not 23:06 < bridge> chillerdragon 23:06 < bridge> his taskbar is so flashing rn 23:06 < bridge> ~~chillerdragondeeznuts~~ 23:11 < bridge> apparently they made QR codes longer 23:11 < bridge> youtube recommendation is weird 23:12 < bridge> https://www.qrcode.com/en/codes/rmqr.html 23:14 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> idk