00:32 < bridge> <Ewan> many people are still trying to figure out why the new team color change actually exists
00:33 < bridge> <Ewan> it being easier to distinguish adjacent teams seems pretty moot since you're rarely ever watching 2 teams at a time, which is probably the only situation you'd ever be confused in if the team colors are similar
00:34 < bridge> <Ewan> maybe it should be reverted, or an option added if ppl rly are having a hard time differentiating
00:37 < bridge> <heinrich5991> > an option added if ppl rly are having a hard time differentiating
00:37 < bridge> <heinrich5991> please no
00:40 < bridge> <Ewan> i don't see why not
00:42 < bridge> <heinrich5991> having an option is worse than selecting either
00:42 < bridge> <heinrich5991> maintenance overhead
00:42 < bridge> <heinrich5991> is there anything bad about the new colors?
00:50 < bridge> <Ewan> peoples' team colors are all screwed up
00:50 < bridge> <Ewan> and some people don't like how it looks in the scoreboard
00:54 < bridge> <heinrich5991> people join a certain team number and expect a certain color
00:55 < bridge> <Ewan> yes
00:55 < bridge> <azurefrogs> theres nothing BAD about the change but its just so unnessecary in my eyes
00:55 < bridge> <azurefrogs> i liked how it was before more but maybe thats just me being accustomed to it
01:30 < bridge> <deen> Yes, everyone is used to the old colors and it looked nice in scoreboard
01:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> the first part can be said about any change
01:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> everyone is used to having a kog and a ddnet tab
01:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> the second part is a statement about the change, at least
01:40 < bridge> <Ewan> they're not just used to it like it's disorienting to see a different color on a certain team
01:40 < bridge> <Ewan> some people have their binds to auto join a certain team, usually because of a color
01:40 < bridge> <Ewan> and there are also certain teams that ppl know not to use since there are known users of said team
01:41 < bridge> <Ewan> and there are also certain teams that ppl know not to use since there are known frequent users of said team
01:41 < bridge> <Ewan> it's silly to make the players go thru this extra work of relearning their & others' preferred teams for something that i've never seen anyone complain about
01:44 < bridge> <heinrich5991> just looking at a scoreboard with two adjacent teams, they're pretty much indistinguishable for my eyes
01:44 < bridge> <louis> i think arguments for both side is  valid
01:44 < bridge> <heinrich5991> can you count that as a complaint?
01:44 < bridge> <heinrich5991> ah, I'm not saying the other argument is invalid
01:44 < bridge> <louis> they did use to be hard to see, but that could be solved with a border or gap as well
01:44 < bridge> <louis> (which i think wouldve been the smarter solution)
01:44 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I'm just trying to add the arguments that Ewan left out
01:45 < bridge> <Ewan> if it's hard for you to see then alright, that's why i think it should be an option
01:45 < bridge> <louis> :justatest:
01:45 < bridge> <heinrich5991> no, options are bad
01:45 < bridge> <heinrich5991> for code maintenance reasons
01:46 < bridge> <heinrich5991> also, if people care how their color looks for others
01:46 < bridge> <Ewan> fundamentally speaking sure but this is a 1 line change seems p low maintenance
01:46 < bridge> <heinrich5991> then the option doesn't help you
01:46 < bridge> <Ewan> sure but if given the option i'm sure 95% of users will use the team color as hue option
01:46 < bridge> <Ewan> sure but if given the option i'm sure 95% of users will use the team number as hue option
01:46 < bridge> <heinrich5991> even if it's not the default?
01:46 < bridge> <Ewan> hmm
01:47 < bridge> <Ewan> well think the golden angle colors should be opt in
01:47 < bridge> <Ewan> *i think
01:47 < bridge> <Ewan> if ur colorblind and have a hard time differentiating between a certain range of teams, which i can see as more realistic
01:47 < bridge> <heinrich5991> what I'm saying is that by adding the option, you're taking away the possibility to get a consistent team color for yourself
01:47 < bridge> <heinrich5991> if that's what your'e into
01:47 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I'm not colorblind afaik
01:47 < bridge> <Ewan> yea i mean you generally
01:48 < bridge> <heinrich5991> ah
01:48 < bridge> <Ewan> it can also be a screen issue. or just difficult eyeballs. but i can see different adjacent team colors fine
01:48 < bridge> <louis> why not add a colorblind option that toggles everything related to accessibility
01:49 < bridge> <Ewan> i understand what you mean but i think this isn't too important because most people won't care if someone else sees their team as a different color
01:49 < bridge> <Ewan> i use the team i do because it looks nice on my screen
01:49 < bridge> <Ewan> idc about other
01:50 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I mean you could just mod your client if you want the other color I guess
01:50 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it'd be nice if client modding was easier
01:50 < bridge> <louis> ^?
01:51 < bridge> <heinrich5991> we can do that, but for me, the change didn't have anything to do with accessibility, so the comment seemed unrelated to em
01:51 < bridge> <louis> although i dont have knowledge or experience abt such things in other games
01:51 < bridge> <louis> not sure if ddnet would benefit
01:51 < bridge> <Ewan> yea and what other options are there for colorblindness?
01:52 < bridge> <Ewan> maybe if there were a second one that could be helpful in such a scenario
01:52 < bridge> <Ewan> but just for one then naw
01:54 < bridge> <louis> true
03:26 < bridge> <learath2> `const std::_Func_impl_no_alloc<class <lambda_ad6ba1eaea12b458f340b402ad5b91bc>,void,class std::vector<class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> >,class std::allocator<class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> > > > const & __ptr64>::vftable`
03:26 < bridge> <learath2> C++ moment
04:05 < bridge> <Ewan> this is bad code
04:06 < bridge> <Ewan> typedefs/type usings would make this totally reasonable but they chose to leave it obtuse
04:06 < bridge> <Ewan> 👎
07:17 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
08:13 < bridge> <thekid36> This can also be true when we have only certain team numbers playing at a given time
08:13 < bridge> <thekid36> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1156111246681190420/colors.jpg?ex=6513c800&is=65127680&hm=50c6674d030d1441a61331fc4912c27cba8a86d99ff208c6c1a090e453c60217&
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> heinrich, its really sad. so many things have changed in ddnet in the past, and I think I was against all of those where the community strikes now.
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Starting with the freeze bar, which was not allowed to be an option either. You just forced it onto us. Learath promised a feature to get it back after he had to see that the community is in favour.
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Then there's this, and again no option. I think there was sonething else aswell.
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> When do you notice that you should maybe start doing votes beforehand?
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> You don't stick to your own rules: Discussing things before they're made, *actually* listening to other people's opinions and maybe simply discarding things.
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Same for all the protocol changes in the past again.
08:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> It's so sad.
08:19 < bridge> <fokkonaut> You don't want options, you don't want anything. Just force everything onto the community.
08:19 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Also nobody of you admins did want to actually make a vote or whatever for the freeze bar. And still, up to this date there's no feature to revert it.
08:31 < bridge> <ravie_ravie> I like the new colors, but just an idea if people keep complaining: bring back old colors but add a little spacing between teams so they're visually separated that way
08:38 < bridge> <Iza> I’m just wondering why it wasn’t implemented like this in the first place
10:44 < bridge> <billionray> #metoo I stand with fokkonaut. I also feel r@pd by heinrich
10:44 < bridge> <billionray> He did unspeakable things to me with his brand new freeze bars
11:15 < bridge> <MilkeeyCat> Bad devs 👎
11:22 < bridge> <billionray> Just because I download DDNet doesnt mean im "asking for it". He took my client and rammed his big freezebar into it
11:29 < bridge> <coke1465> u can still use older clients
11:37 < bridge> <MilkeeyCat> He left :p
11:56 < bridge> <learath2> I too have had enough, all these changes, it's just too much. It doesn't even feel like ddnet anymore
11:57 < bridge> <reitw> :justatest:
11:59 < bridge> <learath2> I mean have you ever seen a bar in teeworlds? No
11:59 < bridge> <learath2> This is 🤡 reality
11:59 < bridge> <reitw> Well ig maybe the community is against some things, but 1-2 person aren't enough to assume that. Maybe some time a survey can be cool
12:02 < bridge> <learath2> Waaiit, a handful of people that are extremely correlated isn't a good representative sample of this entire community? Nooo
12:02 < bridge> <reitw> Well ig maybe the community is against some things, but 1-2 person aren't enough to assume that. Maybe sometimes a survey can be cool
12:03 < bridge> <learath2> Yeah surveys are a good idea especially for visual things like the color change. I was too busy so it slipped my mind to ask for one
12:04 < bridge> <learath2> Every ui change is extremely controversial, should always get a vote for them
12:07 < bridge> <thekid36> Speaking of ui changes, the info/friends/filters also got moved up..
12:07 < bridge> <thekid36> not that I am against it, but was used to the old one and adapting, I guess
12:07 < bridge> <reitw> I mean not a survey for just a single feature
12:07 < bridge> <reitw> But like some features are already here since, maybe get a feedback through a survey after some time
12:12 < bridge> <learath2> That is actually not a bad idea, maybe a week after every release we can do a forum post so people can post complaints and things they want improved
12:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> > Starting with the freeze bar, which was not allowed to be an option either. You just forced it onto us. Learath promised a feature to get it back after he had to see that the community is in favour.
12:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it was allowed to be a client-side option. no one implemented it
12:24 < bridge> <heinrich5991> > Same for all the protocol changes in the past again.
12:24 < bridge> <heinrich5991> this seems like something most of the community does not care about. I didn't ask about https masterservers, they got complaints in the beginning, but I think they're the clearly superior option
12:24 < bridge> <heinrich5991> for the colors, it's not as clear-cut, I agree
12:25 < bridge> <heinrich5991> but I don't like that you tell me that I'm sad
12:25 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I don't go around doing such stuff to you or others
12:27 < bridge> <learath2> Maybe he was saying the situation is sad? At least that’s how I read it
12:27 < bridge> <heinrich5991> ah, fair
12:49 < bridge> <teero777> Im sad ;(
13:10 < bridge> <MilkeeyCat> Tell em
13:44 < bridge> <ryozuki> heya
13:44 < bridge> <ryozuki> im finally back
13:44 < bridge> <ryozuki> got internet
13:44 < bridge> <ryozuki> xD
13:53 < bridge> <heinrich5991> wb
13:53 < bridge> <heinrich5991> what did you do?
13:57 < bridge> <Mr.Gh0s7> https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/252358080522747904/1155943568125480960
15:09 < bridge> <fokkonaut> true, you instanrly ban but keep projecting that i specifically called you sad haha
15:13 < bridge> <fokkonaut> No, you never accept options because it's too much of maintenance
15:14 < bridge> <fokkonaut> ok, now who said anything about http masterservers? it's about those small, weekly protocol changes. those where you tell me all the time we need to discuss them properly etc.
15:14 < bridge> <fokkonaut> anything not by me will not be discussed but rather be merged immediately.
15:15 < bridge> <fokkonaut> (and i only focus on that part right here; that they DO NOT get discussed properly BEFOREHAND)
15:15 < bridge> <fokkonaut> therefore its also not a good idea to ask everyone a week later, after all the implementations have been made, protocol changes are done, etc etc
15:16 < bridge> <fokkonaut> you simply don't follow your own rules, it seems, or well maybe YOU do, but not the other admins then
15:16 < bridge> <fokkonaut> that's sad, whether you personally are sad: i dont know xd
15:16 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I'd prefer it if you said "I'm sad about this" instead of "this is sad"
15:16 < bridge> <fokkonaut> no sorry, this situation *is* sad
15:16 < bridge> <fokkonaut> in an objective way
15:18 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I do think that changing the network code to be more maintainable while keeping backcompat with old clients is fine
15:18 < bridge> <fokkonaut> heinrich, you like arguing, but then please get some good arguments
15:18 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I do not think that supporting old protocol edge cases that mods use is the way forward
15:19 < bridge> <fokkonaut> usually i'd agree, but if those things are used all over the place since 10+ years, even in ddnet itself, and even on the clientside where only the server can't control it anymore while it's still implemented the same way...
15:19 < bridge> <fokkonaut> then it's something else, imo
15:20 < bridge> <fokkonaut> thinking like this you should probably fix all the bugs in ddnet, because they have only been used in old maps, that's not so important
15:20 < bridge> <heinrich5991> no, I'm specifically referring to mods
15:20 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I do think that keeping old ddnet maps working is good
15:20 < bridge> <fokkonaut> mods are part of ddnet, no? you like mod diversity, no? you want developers for this game and the community, no?
15:21 < bridge> <heinrich5991> yes, I do. I don't want to support edge cases, however
15:21 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I'd like to encourage mods to contribute non-edgecase behavior instead
15:21 < bridge> <heinrich5991> like Kaffeine is doing
15:21 < bridge> <fokkonaut> so that every mod has to maintain their own set of backward compatibilitys?
15:21 < bridge> <fokkonaut> i think it's way too much, but that's somethign else.
15:21 < bridge> <fokkonaut> if we'd have proper mod support : great
15:22 < bridge> <heinrich5991> we don't, no point here
15:22 < bridge> <fokkonaut> not like this tho where we support 100 versions and handle everything differently
15:22 < bridge> <fokkonaut> even supporting 2 major versions
15:22 < bridge> <heinrich5991> you're welcome to drop tw 0.6 and tw 0.7 support in your mod
15:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://tenor.com/view/ice-cube-haha-what-really-no-gif-13476522
15:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I don't think we should put effort in helping mod developers to support 0.6 and 0.7
15:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> ???????????????????
15:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> oh boi
15:25 < bridge> <fokkonaut> it's simply tiring to talk to you, most of the time
15:26 < bridge> <fokkonaut> and u didnt get any of my points xD
15:26 < bridge> <fokkonaut> i'll go touch some grass, enough anarchy for today
15:27 < bridge> <fokkonaut> wtf
15:27 < bridge> <fokkonaut> typo
15:27 < bridge> <fokkonaut> autocracy
15:27 < bridge> <fokkonaut> lul
15:27 < bridge> <stepfunn> Can i come along touching some grass? :owo:
15:27 < bridge> <fokkonaut> roll one
15:27 < bridge> <fokkonaut> :kek:
15:28 < bridge> <stepfunn> Oge :stepfuChillOut:
15:38 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> reading all if this
15:38 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> i hope my run anim wasnt too abrupt
15:38 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> i just wanted more clarity for different events
15:40 < bridge> <ryozuki> become independent
15:42 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> basement escaped
15:45 < bridge> <ryozuki> i made my man cave
15:46 < bridge> <ryozuki> and soon ill have my gentoo distcc home server
15:46 < bridge> <ryozuki> it will help me compile pkgs faster and my pc will help the server
15:46 < bridge> <ryozuki> shared computing awesome
15:47 < bridge> <heinrich5991> you're onto something :p
15:47 < bridge> <ryozuki> now i wanted to also make that server be a powerfull routee
15:47 < bridge> <ryozuki> router
15:47 < bridge> <ryozuki> but the router they installed is a ONT and router together
15:48 < bridge> <ryozuki> i found u can  put it as a bridge mode so the actual router is the server
15:48 < bridge> <ryozuki> but i havent found the option on the propietary non stallman interface
15:48 < bridge> <learath2> You ruined the game forever, I hope you are proud of yourself
15:49 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> thanks sorah
15:51 < bridge> <learath2> If you rely on weird edge case behaviour, yes? That's how modding works, when teeworlds changed stuff we had to undo and work around the things we didn't agree with
15:52 < bridge> <learath2> Unlike teeworlds however, we accept pull requests that try to standardize edge case behaviour
15:52 < bridge> <ryozuki> i agree that modding shouldnt seek too much official help, if its easy and has no burden on oficial then its fine for le
15:52 < bridge> <ryozuki> me
15:52 < bridge> <fokkonaut> ^
15:53 < bridge> <learath2> You still haven't even found the bug, what do you want us to do? Debug your mod for you?
15:53 < bridge> <ryozuki> that said, as u know i am all in for removing support for 0.6, 0.7 and become standalone
15:53 < bridge> <ryozuki> :gigachad:
15:53 < bridge> <learath2> Tell me what broke it and I can try to figure out if it was unintentional or maybe easy to keep. Just complain about vague issues and you won't get anything
15:54 < bridge> <fokkonaut> ????????????
15:54 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Its about the f laser
15:54 < bridge> <fokkonaut> not the f hook xd
15:54 < bridge> <fokkonaut> But that has its way now anyways
15:54 < bridge> <learath2> So there is no issue after all?
16:19 < bridge> <teero777> Voxel pov:
16:19 < bridge> <teero777> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1156233473602887740/RDT_20230926_1037403701157049548237552.jpg?ex=651439d5&is=6512e855&hm=e9e4785e91257936cb101d50c9bcfec812f1a2cae37a33f91655c542d2f4b80d&
16:21 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> windows 11 bg
16:22 < bridge> <_voxeldoesart> factually incorrect
17:44 < bridge> <chairn> im starting to hate the IT service at my workplace
17:44 < bridge> <chairn> what's the point of a VPN if you can't access local ressources when you're away from the office?
18:18 < bridge> <reitw> To act like you work but you play DDNet :giga_chad:
18:18 < bridge> <chairn> udp is filtered though
18:18 < bridge> <reitw> Tf
18:18 < bridge> <reitw> Where
18:19 < bridge> <chairn> i guess esisar proxy
18:19 < bridge> <chairn> discord is also blocked
18:19 < bridge> <reitw> Ah yes normal
18:19 < bridge> <reitw> But you should be able to reach local resources lol
18:27 < bridge> <chairn> well, i wasn't told that there are 2 vpns, one that points to main site and one that points to our local site. But the local one only works on windows for some reason
19:26 < bridge> <ryozuki> oh
19:26 < bridge> <ryozuki> i got a spare amd gpu
19:26 < bridge> <ryozuki> home server with gpu incoming
19:27 < bridge> <ryozuki> its a rx 590 iirc
19:27 < bridge> <ryozuki> or 580 i forgot
19:30 < bridge> <ryozuki> omg
19:30 < bridge> <ryozuki> this isp also doesnt have ipv6
19:30 < bridge> <ryozuki> xd
19:59 < bridge> <gyro3630> How to add mysql support to server ?
21:27 < bridge> <Ewan> from where
21:33 < bridge> <sedonya> Where does the client update the ``ddnet-info.json`` file in appdata from?
21:43 < bridge> <robyt3> https://info.ddnet.org/info
21:47 < bridge> <sedonya> Where does it say that in the code?
22:02 < bridge> <robyt3> Use search function
22:03 < bridge> <sedonya> I searched via ctrl + shift + F but didn't find anything
22:03 < bridge> <robyt3> I don't know what program you used, but Sublime Text, Notepad++ and GitHub should all work
22:04 < bridge> <sedonya> CLion
22:05 < bridge> <Ewan> you can set a conditional breakpoint in the http job start function
22:05 < bridge> <Ewan> if search rly isnt working