01:45 <+bridge> hello friends, can anyone tell me how CNetObj_PlayerInput::m_Fire works? Does setting it to zero ensure no firing? 01:45 <+bridge> a bit late but in the cmakelist you have something to enable discord rich presence support, make sure it's ON 01:46 <+bridge> a bit late but in the cmakelist you have something to enable discord rich presence support, make sure it's ON (it's off by default) 01:46 <+bridge> i set it to ON, original ddnet client id works but my appllication id doesn't. 01:46 <+bridge> ah well 01:46 <+bridge> :ajidk: 01:48 <+bridge> Bossman you are basically making a bot whether you intend to use it on ddnet servers or not. No one will help you with it 😄 01:48 <+bridge> well i already got it 01:48 <+bridge> sorry to dissapoint 01:49 <+bridge> well i figured it out* 01:49 <+bridge> Eitherway, you aren't getting help with it 01:50 <+bridge> oh the horror 🦔 01:51 <+bridge> I was so not in the mood for another bot vendor, can you like release it later so I have more time to deal with the fallout? 01:51 <+bridge> i wasnt planning on releasing it, but i can if you want me to 01:52 <+bridge> not a fan of random noobs benefiting off of hours of my work 01:53 <+bridge> that's even better, keep it to yourself 01:55 <+bridge> just give them incorrect answers ez bot now delayed due to bugs 01:55 <+bridge> for a development channel you guys are sure hesitant to talk about development 01:56 <+bridge> even if its for 'botting', security through obscurity isnt a great policy 01:57 <+bridge> also i dont think its the average person you guys should worry about, its only a matter of time before someone with the right knowledge comes around and makes some advanced bot that can play tw better than any human 02:00 <+bridge> somehow commenting this cleargameinfo was a solution to me 02:00 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1121952894829211668/image.png 02:00 <+bridge> lol 🧠 🐘 02:11 <+bridge> Hopefully the right kind of degenerate with the correct skillset never comes along. Because bot detection is definitely a losing battle. We are lucky it's only skiddies for now 02:14 <+bridge> right, so my point is a script kiddie isnt going to make anything that will be a serious threat to ddnet with some casual help from this server, on the other hand a 'degenerate' with the right skillset will accomplish it regardless. Thus this whole crappy attitude to people who ask questions about the codebase for 'bots' is pointless 02:15 <+bridge> anyway your server, your rules, i respect it 02:18 <+bridge> It’s still a lot of work even detecting simple bots, it’s better for both the mods and us the less there are of them overall 06:52 <+bridge> I feel like every kind of cheat that's useful for ddnet has already been made and released at some point in time. I can't think of any kind of cheat that would cause significantly more damage than past cheats have done. 08:01 <+bridge> not rly? lot of dev talk here, just not about botting 08:01 <+bridge> u just took the wrong path 08:08 <+bridge> No. 10000% disagree. You waste my precious awesome short lifetime to develop something i will never use for good reasons. 08:08 <+bridge> Other developers ask questions to make something actually useful for the community. 08:15 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> when ddnet in this meme of a language 08:15 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> https://github.com/TodePond/DreamBerd 08:28 <+bridge> Strongly disagree. I haven’t tried any bot client but I doubt you can just spin up some client and finish any ddnet map 1try without skill or effort. Which is something that could be done. Also if slats gores bot is as stable as it looks on YouTube and easy to use. If that were released to the public it could disrupt kog. Imagine every player giving it a try because it’s fun and finishing some insane kog map with it. How are moderators su 08:28 <+bridge> (@totar) 08:32 <+bridge> I meant ddrace specificly. I think it's inherently more resistant to bots than gores, fng, or block 08:33 <+bridge> You can't make an ai or bot that figures out how to finish even a somewhat complex ddracr map, unless it's just replaying recorded inputs from someone else 08:33 <+bridge> You can't make an ai or bot that figures out how to finish even a somewhat complex ddrace map, unless it's just replaying recorded inputs from someone else 08:47 <+bridge> That’s the thing. You can. Everything is possible 08:47 <+bridge> (@totar) 08:48 <+bridge> I think it's 100x harder than the starcraft ai 08:48 <+bridge> its about the amount of effort 08:49 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> imagine relying on machine learning to finish a map 08:49 <+bridge> its surely a matter of time until even such bots are easy to make 08:50 <+bridge> so just accept the fact that machines are better than humans and have fun play without bots 08:50 <+bridge> I would consider it a breakthrough in machine learning if someone could finish even 5% of ddrace maps without seeing them beforehand 08:50 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> and then online multiplayer games would die out 08:50 <+bridge> u mean first try? 08:50 <+bridge> or any amount of tries? 08:51 <+bridge> A reasonable amount 08:51 <+bridge> <5 hours 08:52 <+bridge> i am not sure 08:52 <+bridge> 08:52 <+bridge> if u'd say 95% i'd probs say yes 08:52 <+bridge> People can't even make an ai that solves all trackmania maps and that game is orders of magnitude less complex in terms of intelligent actions 08:52 <+bridge> maps like brainfuck are defs brain fuck 08:52 <+bridge> xd 08:53 <+bridge> i dunno, trackmania has "normal" maps and these weird maps where u do saltos etc 08:54 <+bridge> Even the weirdest trackmania maps I think are less dimensionally complex than most ddrace maps. The fact you need to aim is a huge increase in complexity 08:55 <+bridge> yeah i dunno.. its mostly about patterns 08:55 <+bridge> i'd say at least ddmax maps have similar patterns 08:55 <+bridge> It's not like the map tells you which direction your even supposed to go btw 08:55 <+bridge> Just path finding the correct path seems a monumental challenge 08:57 <+bridge> and still humans do it somehow 08:58 <+bridge> Would u have thought there will be AIs better at human language than any other humans existing? 08:58 <+bridge> Would u have thought there will be AIs better at human language than any human existing? 08:58 <+bridge> many maps are straight forwards. but there are definetely extremly hard maps even for a humans 08:58 <+bridge> many maps are straight forwards. but there are definetely extremly hard maps even for a human 08:59 <+bridge> e.g. escape, brainfuck, where u need to go back in the map with new weapons etc. 09:05 <+ChillerDragon> But it is not unthinkable that AI could solve those tricky maps better and faster than humans 09:06 <+ChillerDragon> but i think it doesnt even need AI to create a disrupting bot 09:06 <+bridge> AI cant think yet 09:06 <+bridge> I think people are over estimating the current state of abstract reasoning in ai 09:06 <+bridge> so the tricky maps are basically unsolveable yet 09:07 <+bridge> but still, many maps follow a certain pattern 09:07 <+bridge> There's a lot of tests which are simple for untrained humans that ai cants even get over 20% 09:07 <+bridge> https://github.com/fchollet/ARC 09:07 <+bridge> if u vote a random moderate map, it will probably feel to you as u done it before 09:07 <+bridge> and i guess for such maps AI will be good enough 09:08 <+ChillerDragon> i wonder if there every will be a AI to generate maps 09:08 <+ChillerDragon> so mappers become prompt engineers xd 09:09 <+bridge> well simply answer question: do you think AI will at some point be as intelligent as a human? 09:09 <+ChillerDragon> does it have to be for mapping? 09:09 <+bridge> for _any_ map a human wants 09:09 <+bridge> yes 09:09 <+ChillerDragon> but yea im not super sure about it 09:10 <+ChillerDragon> i have like 0 understanding of how AI works so its hard to tell for me 09:10 <+bridge> input, output 09:10 <+ChillerDragon> cant tell if we are close or not 09:10 <+ChillerDragon> if its doable or not 09:10 <+ChillerDragon> but im confident that it wont stay at human intelligence level for very long 09:11 <+ChillerDragon> and reach for humans uncomprehensible intellect quickly after reaching the human level 09:11 <+bridge> In my opinion it's possible but only if you generate small segments 09:12 <+bridge> if we have a AI that can reason.. even if its on a level of a 12 years old child 09:12 <+bridge> 09:12 <+bridge> the game is over 09:12 <+bridge> My point is only that ddrace maps are sufficiently hard enough to ward off ai until it's at human level in many aspects 09:12 <+bridge> bcs then u can have 7 billion 12 years old childs reasoning together 09:13 <+bridge> You could easily say chatgpt is as intelligent as 99% of 12 year olds 09:13 <+bridge> mhh 09:13 <+bridge> I really think it is 09:13 <+bridge> yeah i understand what u mean 09:13 <+bridge> but chatgpt has no will 09:13 <+bridge> But that doesn't mean it can do thinks a 20 year old can 09:13 <+bridge> a 12 years old child that is about to die, has to get creative maybe 09:13 <+bridge> But that doesn't mean it can do things a 20 year old can 09:14 <+bridge> chatgpt basically knows nothing about our real world physics 09:14 <+bridge> and it cant do math 09:14 <+bridge> It's limited because it can't effectively learn, remember, or work with out ais so it just acts as 1 person 09:15 <+bridge> It's limited because it can't effectively learn, remember, or work with other ais so it just acts as 1 person 09:16 <+bridge> I don't think infinite 20 billion 12 year olds assuming they can never learn or remember new information could make a super ai 09:16 <+bridge> I don't think 20 billion 12 year olds assuming they can never learn or remember new information could make a super ai 09:16 <+bridge> the ai talking with someone isnt learning either, its just processing the sentence and answering that, its not modifiying itself iirc 09:17 <+bridge> yeah 09:17 <+bridge> its not a real interaction 09:17 <+bridge> static hardware is also inefficient in such things 09:17 <+bridge> our brain is a master piece in that regard 09:17 <+bridge> ye 09:18 <+bridge> analog too 09:18 <+bridge> yeah thats indeed another issue with computers 09:18 <+bridge> analog may be better for ai 09:18 <+bridge> 4bits are simply shitty 09:19 <+bridge> I think a computer 50x as powerful as a 4090 is enough to make human level ai. I think we just don't know how yet 09:20 <+bridge> a human brain is like 12 watts 09:20 <+bridge> so in terms of thermodynamics thats all it would take right 09:20 <+bridge> so in terms of thermodynamics thats all it would take right? 09:20 <+ChillerDragon> xd 09:20 <+bridge> to me gpt-4 was the most advanced human language generator even including humans 09:20 <+bridge> 09:20 <+bridge> when i read articles, book passages etc it never sounds as well expressed as gpt-4 09:20 <+bridge> 09:20 <+bridge> it simply knows the perfect word in every setence 09:20 <+bridge> 09:20 <+bridge> it let it summerize some stuff, quite a few times and was quite impressed how well it compressed the information without loosing the core points 😄 09:21 <+bridge> you got access to it from europe? how? 09:21 <+bridge> credit card 09:22 <+bridge> If you compare estimated floating point operation cost of simulating a neuron I think 50x 4090 is close enough 09:22 <+bridge> but talk about it about rust or vulkan.. u directly see it knows nothing 😂 09:58 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122073367688786001/image.png 09:59 <+bridge> this crashes clangd 09:59 <+bridge> 😃 09:59 <+bridge> ignore the fact that it's actually nonsense code 10:01 <+bridge> ez 10:04 <+bridge> What are u codin? Or is this just some isolated exampe for demonstration? 10:05 <+bridge> stuff 10:05 <+bridge> object & hierarchy boilerplates 10:05 <+bridge> ddnet unrelated 10:05 <+bridge> ryo would probably call it the devil's work 10:08 <+ChillerDragon> c++ moment 10:08 <+bridge> huh 10:09 <+bridge> Trying to understand line 61.. is the zero being passed to the lambda or whats the deal with it? 10:09 <+bridge> zero is bullshit 10:09 <+bridge> that's why clangd crashes 10:10 <+bridge> The std::forward doesnt belong there right? 10:12 <+bridge> Interesting little snippet, takes your mind on a journey 10:13 <+bridge> yeah 10:13 <+bridge> it doesn't belong there 10:13 <+bridge> templates are great 10:16 <+bridge> Keep your head up brother @mpft. Things will get better if you keep at it 🦔 10:16 <+bridge> thanks 10:19 <+ChillerDragon> wats with the hedghehog emoji xd 10:19 <+bridge> it's his pfp 10:19 <+bridge> the hedgehog wisdom 10:22 <+ChillerDragon> branding i see 10:22 <+ChillerDragon> :dragon: 10:23 <+ChillerDragon> @fikmesan @imp Narcisstic good map thanks for building it 10:24 <+ChillerDragon> 13:37 median finish time axaxax real haxor map 10:24 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1687595076.png 10:24 <+ChillerDragon> ah shit forgot my apache is down 10:24 <+ChillerDragon> F 10:30 <+bridge> @imp 10:30 <+bridge> NO 10:30 <+bridge> sry imp 10:30 <+bridge> i was trying to see if he was speaking doxygen 10:31 <+bridge> chillerdragon: use engine X 10:31 <+ChillerDragon> wot 10:31 <+bridge> nginx 10:31 <+ChillerDragon> a 10:31 <+ChillerDragon> xd 10:31 <+ChillerDragon> too lazy to learn it 10:31 <+ChillerDragon> i know apache 10:31 <+ChillerDragon> and it works well 10:32 <+bridge> ez 10:32 <+ChillerDragon> cant really blame apache for me using a vps during dist upgrade 10:32 <+ChillerDragon> i run debian 12 packages with a debian 11 kernel 10:33 <+ChillerDragon> and apparently downgrading is not really supported by debian 10:33 <+bridge> nginx is good 10:33 <+ChillerDragon> apache is good too isnt it? 10:33 <+ChillerDragon> gets the job done 10:33 <+bridge> yeah 10:33 <+ChillerDragon> my jobs 10:33 <+bridge> i use both 10:33 <+bridge> i prefer proxy syntax in apache config 10:34 <+ChillerDragon> i never really touched a nginx config 10:34 <+ChillerDragon> but looks cooler than the xml tbh 10:36 <+bridge> DAILY PAITON TRIVIA 10:36 <+bridge> ```python3 10:36 <+bridge> def pack(self, we_are_a_client = True) -> bytes: 10:36 <+bridge> payload: bytes = b'' 10:36 <+bridge> msg: Union[CtrlMessage, NetMessage, ConnlessMessage] 10:36 <+bridge> is_control: bool = False 10:36 <+bridge> is_connless: bool = False 10:36 <+bridge> for msg in self.messages: 10:36 <+bridge> if msg.message_type == 'connless': 10:36 <+bridge> is_connless = True 10:36 <+bridge> msg = cast(ConnlessMessage, msg) 10:36 <+bridge> payload += bytes(msg.message_id) 10:36 <+bridge> payload += msg.pack() 10:36 <+bridge> elif msg.message_type == 'control': 10:36 <+bridge> is_control = True 10:36 <+bridge> msg = cast(CtrlMessage, msg) 10:36 <+bridge> payload += pack_int(msg.message_id) 10:36 <+bridge> payload += msg.pack(we_are_a_client) 10:37 <+bridge> else: # game or system message 10:37 <+bridge> msg = cast(NetMessage, msg) 10:37 <+bridge> msg_payload: bytes = pack_int( 10:37 <+bridge> (msg.message_id<<1) | 10:37 <+bridge> (int)(msg.system_message) 10:37 <+bridge> ) 10:37 <+bridge> msg_payload += msg.pack() 10:37 <+bridge> if msg.header.size is None: 10:37 <+bridge> msg.header.size = len(msg_payload) 10:37 <+bridge> payload += msg.header.pack() 10:37 <+bridge> payload += msg_payload 10:37 <+bridge> if self.header.num_chunks is None: 10:37 <+bridge> if is_control: 10:37 <+bridge> self.header.num_chunks = 0 10:37 <+bridge> ```python 10:37 <+bridge> def pack(self, we_are_a_client = True) -> bytes: 10:37 <+bridge> payload: bytes = b'' 10:37 <+bridge> msg: Union[CtrlMessage, NetMessage, ConnlessMessage] 10:37 <+bridge> is_control: bool = False 10:37 <+bridge> is_connless: bool = False 10:37 <+bridge> for msg in self.messages: 10:37 <+bridge> if msg.message_type == 'connless': 10:37 <+bridge> is_connless = True 10:37 <+bridge> msg = cast(ConnlessMessage, msg) 10:37 <+bridge> sorri irc volks xd 10:37 <+bridge> what is the question 10:37 <+bridge> uff 10:37 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122083121551118397/image.png 10:37 <+bridge> how to make code less ugly 10:38 <+bridge> refactor challenge 10:38 <+bridge> now that debian upgrade is out, all sid packages got updated 10:38 <+bridge> 😬 10:38 <+bridge> apt --upgradable moment 10:38 <+bridge> almost 700 packages 10:38 <+bridge> many 10:38 <+bridge> good that the update is almost finished after 2minutes 10:38 <+bridge> imagine waiting 30 minutes for an update 10:38 <+bridge> 😬 10:41 <+bridge> chillerdragon: its very ezt 10:41 <+bridge> ez 10:41 <+bridge> dont use python 10:41 <+ChillerDragon> ok thank 10:41 <+ChillerDragon> ill just commit like this 10:41 <+bridge> np, ur welcome 10:41 <+ChillerDragon> i somehow cant refactor code 10:41 <+ChillerDragon> i just poop on my keyboard and call it a day 10:44 <+ChillerDragon> ohno 10:44 <+ChillerDragon> edgaaaaaar 10:44 <+ChillerDragon> ! 10:44 <+ChillerDragon> when python dev again? 10:44 <+ChillerDragon> i really wanted to avoid diving into huffman code 11:17 <+bridge> why not simplifying some part 11:19 <+bridge> its so annoying that i cant right click links in embedds anymore in discord 11:19 <+bridge> why did they change it 😭 11:24 <+bridge> upgrade was worth it. the new spectacle (basically better version of snipping tool on windows) 11:24 <+bridge> is really cool 😄 11:42 <+bridge> @robyt3 when dark mode for dropdowns 11:42 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122099459145343026/image.png 12:04 <+bridge> krixxx💀 12:04 <+bridge> (@BillionRay) 12:06 <+bridge> ik a ser 12:10 <+bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/6721#issuecomment-1584122282 like option D? 12:10 <+bridge> looks better than grey imo 😄 12:11 <+bridge> our UI is simply weird 12:11 <+bridge> i guess if we want to have "transparency" we'd need to go with blur 12:11 <+bridge> yeah 13:32 <+bridge> how to judge a place is freeze or not 13:32 <+bridge> int CCollision::IsFreeze(int x, int y) const 13:32 <+bridge> { 13:32 <+bridge> int index = GetTile(x, y); 13:32 <+bridge> return index == TILE_FREEZE; 13:32 <+bridge> } 13:32 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> wdym 13:32 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> use entities? 13:32 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> oh 13:32 <+bridge> i use this to judge 13:32 <+bridge> but it dont work 13:33 <+bridge> What x and y positions are you using, for example? 13:33 <+bridge> this is test in game 13:33 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122127337463488522/image.png 13:33 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122127402340986970/image.png 13:34 <+bridge> i tried /32 and the origin 13:34 <+bridge> both didnot work 13:35 <+bridge> so which should i use 13:36 <+bridge> don't divide by 32 before calling `IsFreeze` 13:36 <+bridge> it's already done inside of `GetTile` which is called in `IsFreeze` 13:38 <+bridge> oh there goes the need for my dropdown edits too, epic 😃 13:38 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122128522463432744/image.png 13:38 <+bridge> still 13:38 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122128591489073172/image.png 13:39 <+bridge> i am confuze with this 13:41 <+bridge> first try it on a simple map 13:41 <+bridge> you are not handling freeze tiles in front and switch layers 13:41 <+bridge> so I assume the freeze tile in this map is not in the game layer 13:43 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122129757224587324/image.png 13:43 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122129831019167765/image.png 13:43 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122129980399292416/image.png 13:43 <+bridge> so 13:44 <+bridge> not the map issue 13:44 <+bridge> Maybe those maps also have the freeze not in the game layer... 13:44 <+bridge> What are you trying to do? 13:45 <+bridge> judge a block is freeze or not 13:45 <+bridge> Any block? Or just where you currently are? 13:46 <+bridge> anywhere i think 13:46 <+bridge> so i write a function 13:46 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122130684031533056/image.png 13:46 <+bridge> Search for `TILE_FREEZE` in the code 13:46 <+bridge> You also need to consider tiles in the front layer and tiles in the switch layer 13:47 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122130835575930940/image.png 13:47 <+bridge> how can the first one work 13:47 <+bridge> For the switch layer you also need to know which team the player is on 13:48 <+bridge> I guess we only use solid and nohook in the game layer 13:50 <+bridge> the index return 0 every time 13:52 <+bridge> yes 13:52 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122132214633726064/image.png 13:52 <+bridge> how can i judge if the block is freeze 13:55 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> whats this for 13:56 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122133168133251174/image.png 13:59 <+bridge> As I've said, you need to consider front and switch layers as well 14:00 <+bridge> fuck 14:00 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122134176179691541/image.png 14:00 <+bridge> i found it 14:00 <+bridge> it only return 1-4 14:01 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> wtf why LOL 14:01 <+bridge> i dont know 14:01 <+bridge> oh wow 14:01 <+bridge> good 14:01 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122134484003868743/image.png 14:01 <+bridge> i am a dumb 14:02 <+bridge> my original point still stands though, if you want to detect all freeze tiles 15:05 <+bridge> :think_bot: 16:20 <+bridge> @vinson7987 what u makin? 16:51 <+bridge> @vinson7987 looking through your other messages seems you are a bit of a botter, we should work together perhaps 🦔 16:51 <+bridge> on purely educational endeavors ofcourse 17:03 <+bridge> @BillionRay mention bots one more time and you're muted 17:06 <+bridge> For how long? 17:10 <+bridge> do not try to circumvent the rules 17:10 <+bridge> I don't want to play games 17:19 <+bridge> https://novehiclesinthepark.com/ 17:24 <+bridge> damn, i thought it was like r/fuckcars 17:24 <+bridge> are these bots in the room with us? 17:24 <+bridge> (@heinrich5991) 17:25 <+bridge> I'm talking about cheats in ddnet 17:25 <+bridge> pleases stop talking about those 17:29 < ChillerDragon> :robot: 17:33 <+bridge> ah 17:34 <+bridge> @chillerdragon still on narcissistic i see 18:16 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> i am not going to be hired for moderator anytime soon 18:16 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1122198537107677354/image0.jpg 18:17 <+bridge> the "you agreed with the majority" seems bogus 21:16 <+bridge> does ddnet allow a mapres to be used in both a quad and tiles layer 21:16 <+bridge> seems saving is prevented 21:17 <+bridge> it should allow it 21:19 <+bridge> it s impossible 21:19 <+bridge> i rephrase: 21:19 <+bridge> the client allows it 21:19 <+bridge> xd 21:20 <+bridge> if the editor is buggy dunno 21:20 <+bridge> when the map is loaded it removes one of the layers 21:20 <+bridge> it is omitted from the binary map file 21:22 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> are you using current version 21:22 <+bridge> latest stable 21:31 <+bridge> ok empty quad layers are removed when u save 21:31 <+bridge> theres no bug 21:35 <+bridge> <_voxeldoesart> lol