06:04 < bridge> <Voxel> I'm redoing my CMake DDNet build thing again, since I got a new PC and
06:04 < bridge> <Voxel> where's.. where's the DDNet section?
06:04 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083978816940167219/image.png
06:05 < bridge> <Voxel> I'm redoing my CMake DDNet build thing again, since I got a new PC and
06:05 < bridge> <Voxel> where's.. where's the DDNet project?
06:05 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083978816940167219/image.png
06:05 < bridge> <Voxel> I followed all the steps as close as I could, but isn't there supposed to be a DDNet project under crapnet?
07:02 < bridge> <Faulty> game-client
08:00 < bridge> <Voxel> Wasn't CMake built into Visual Studio?
08:00 < bridge> <Voxel> How do you get that up again?
08:01 < bridge> <Voxel> Like, the DDNet github says you have to manually use the CMake app, but when I was doing my pull requests it was just in Visual Studio
09:31 <+ChillerDragon> the things on the screenshots are targets you can build those are executables
09:31 <+ChillerDragon> i think wait whats flew and gmock doing there haha
09:43 < bridge> <Ryozuki> cmake is standalone
09:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> visual studio just has integrated it
09:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> for ppl who dont know
09:47 < bridge> <chillerdragon> Ryo windows pro
09:48 < bridge> <chillerdragon> So I Download 20gb and wait 10hours to get a slow sluggish ide that doesn’t have a build system ?
09:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
09:58 < bridge> <Voxel> i installed cmake support on my VS
09:58 < bridge> <Voxel> i just forgot how to like make it run
10:00 < bridge> <Voxel> because im watching chiller's guide to build clients again and im doing it all right except for the fact that, in the video cmake is running in VS, while in my case its kind of.. not?
10:02 < bridge> <Voxel> :justatest:
10:02 < bridge> <Voxel> do you think this is related to my problem or was that completely different
10:03 <+ChillerDragon> honestly i always thought vs ships cmake
10:04 <+ChillerDragon> https://cmake.org/download/ if ryo is right you can give downloading cmake a try
10:04 <+ChillerDragon> then reopen vscode
10:04 <+ChillerDragon> vs*
10:04 < bridge> <Voxel> i have cmake
10:04 <+ChillerDragon> oh
10:04 <+ChillerDragon> hm
10:04 < bridge> <Voxel> i have both the app and the support in VS LOL
10:04 <+ChillerDragon> and it just doesnt run?
10:05 <+ChillerDragon> did you open vs in the correct folder?
10:05 <+ChillerDragon> send some screenshots
10:05 <+ChillerDragon> that show as much as possible not some crops
10:06 < bridge> <Voxel> i clone the repo, and normally theres an output box at the bottom that decompiles everything
10:06 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084039664140308522/image.png
10:08 < bridge> <Voxel> it was completely automatic and all i really had to do is go into the folder and it started
10:08 < bridge> <Voxel> and then i follow the rest of your build tutorial and everything would be fine
10:09 < bridge> <Voxel> what else should i show
10:12 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1678525921.png
10:12 <+ChillerDragon> at the top can you click on the dropdown
10:12 <+ChillerDragon> to pick the DDNet executable?
10:13 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084041282030145606/image.png
10:13 <+ChillerDragon> iirc this is bad
10:13 <+ChillerDragon> xd
10:13 < bridge> <Voxel> i didnt compile it with cmake yet, this was JUST cloned so
10:13 < bridge> <Voxel> i didnt decompile it with cmake yet, this was JUST cloned so
10:13 < bridge> <Voxel> should i decompile with cmake app and show what that looks like
10:14 <+ChillerDragon> yea whatever that means xd
10:15 <+ChillerDragon> as far as i remmeber it it was right click open vs here and it just works :D
10:15 <+ChillerDragon> im so tempted to boot in windows now and redo the compile tut 
10:16 <+ChillerDragon> but i still have ptsd from my last windows boot when i debugged a chillerbot issue :D
10:17 <+ChillerDragon> i noticed so many users have bors +r powers these days. Is there a discord role we can ping to merge something? :D like @bors
10:17 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084042367251787837/image.png
10:17 <+ChillerDragon> how do u open vs
10:17 <+ChillerDragon> but looks kinda good
10:18 <+ChillerDragon> what does configzre srartup project show?
10:18 < bridge> <Voxel> open the app and click the folder where i cloned the repo
10:18 < bridge> <Voxel> usually it **should** work as intended
10:18 <+ChillerDragon> ah
10:18 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084042738909073448/image.png
10:18 <+ChillerDragon> could you try the other way around for me but its probably same result
10:19 <+ChillerDragon> go in explorer to the code and then right click -> open vs here
10:19 <+ChillerDragon> i assume its same tho
10:19 <+ChillerDragon> i do not recognize much from my windows days
10:19 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084042964319342632/image.png
10:19 < bridge> <Voxel> OH THIS is a good sign
10:19 <+ChillerDragon> @fokkonaut is the only vs fan i know he might be up to speed with recent versions
10:20 <+ChillerDragon> yea clicking random buttons is also what i would do at this point
10:20 < bridge> <Voxel> So I set the source directory to the Source folder or the decompiled folder?
10:21 <+ChillerDragon> what is a decompiled folder xd
10:22 <+ChillerDragon> make the source the whole folder you cloned
10:22 <+ChillerDragon> that contains the CMakeLists.txt
10:22 <+ChillerDragon> ok fak it im booting into windows now xd
10:25 < bridge> <Voxel> Okay, so I was in the build folder, and since I had to do the entire clone I exited out and went in there, but CMake was still off.
10:25 < bridge> <Voxel> I tried to go into the settings to enable it but
10:25 < bridge> <Voxel> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084044308442787961/image.png
10:25 < bridge> <Voxel> And then the program crashes
10:28 < bridge> <Faulty> usually to run cmake after clone project you need just open CMakeLists.txt in root and press ctrl+s or save, it's trigger cmake refresh
10:28 < bridge> <Faulty> if any error maybe it was not installed or installed wrong
10:53 <+ChillerDragon> how does rust even affect the windows build these days? whats the recommended way of installing rust on windows?
11:00 <+ChillerDragon> oh wow windows released a package manager in 2020 has anyone tried `winget`?
11:03 < bridge> <Kaffeine> // https://keivan.io/the-day-appget-died/
11:03 <+ChillerDragon> ms moment
11:08 <+ChillerDragon> aw shit thats a sad story they yoinked his appget ._.
11:09 <+ChillerDragon> but im really tempted to use winget instead of choco. The choco logo is just soo ugly. And if windows is pushing it its probably just getting stronger. And seems like they yoinked all the appget things which seem nice to me at first glance.
11:10 <+ChillerDragon> he did make it in the readme tho so its not that they silently stole it and removed his credits
11:18 <+ChillerDragon> seems like windows users just combine package managers scoop + choco + winget haha what a mess
11:23 < bridge> <Ewan> it has numerous build systems
11:25 < bridge> <Ewan> rustup
11:26 < bridge> <Ewan> it’s alright. kind of a wrapper around registry un/install stuff and doesn’t use the pkg management API as much as it should
11:26 <+ChillerDragon> rustup runs on windows?
11:26 < bridge> <Ewan> why wouldn’t it
11:27 <+ChillerDragon> because its windows idk
11:27 < bridge> <Ewan> 😕
11:27 <+ChillerDragon> so every windows user needs to install rustup to build ddnet is that in the docs?
11:28 < bridge> <Ewan> did you run cmake (generate the makefiles)? it should error there if it has dependency location issues or anything of the sort, most things that would mysteriously fail would happen in the generation step
11:28 < bridge> <Ewan> wdym decompile
11:29 < bridge> <Ewan> idk how that’s exclusive to windows
11:29 < bridge> <Ewan> there are obviously other ways
11:41 <+ChillerDragon> what da heck is C:\Strawberry and why is uninstalling vs harder than installing it im so lost on windows honestly i cant even delete a folder
11:43 <+ChillerDragon> also how to rebind volume keys without installing malware? windows is the hardest os there is 
11:59 < bridge> <Ewan> Strawberry Perl
11:59 < bridge> <Ewan> Uninstalling VS is very easy, what issues are you having
12:00 < bridge> <Ewan> Can’t
12:01 < bridge> <Ewan> They are not sent to the receiving applications through a media control server, they are sent as raw event data like all other keyboard data. Or at least, that’s how it used to be, and the OS shell media shit doesn’t allow for remapping
12:06 <+ChillerDragon> im super nervouse on windows somehow :D
12:06 <+ChillerDragon> deleting the vs folder says a program is using it going through the windows uninstall programs ui the uninstall button is greyed out
12:07 < bridge> <Ewan> well yeah???
12:07 < bridge> <Ewan> use the VS installer to uninstall it
12:07 < bridge> <Ewan> it’s way more than just the app. many SDKs and shit littered around the disk
12:07 < bridge> <Ewan> then you can uninstall the installer
12:09 <+ChillerDragon> i started with that
12:09 <+ChillerDragon> first i updated the vs installer
12:09 <+ChillerDragon> then i installed all using the vs installer
12:09 <+ChillerDragon> then i manually deleted 20 c++ thingies using the uninstall button
12:09 <+ChillerDragon> then i run some choco uninstall script
12:09 <+ChillerDragon> then i deleted a bunch of folders in C:\
12:10 < bridge> <Robyt3> Did you restart already?
12:10 <+ChillerDragon> yea once
12:10 < bridge> <Robyt3> Some files are only deleted after restarting
12:10 <+ChillerDragon> still greyed out
12:10 <+ChillerDragon> but yea ima go again
12:10 <+ChillerDragon> since i just emptied my trash bin which required admin priv haha
12:10 <+ChillerDragon> it all feels like such a meme
12:10 <+ChillerDragon> and gcc is still found
12:11 <+ChillerDragon> ah ye mingw is still there
12:11 <+ChillerDragon> idk how to properly uninstall that
12:11 <+ChillerDragon> there is no mingw installer and it doesnt appear in programs and features
12:11 <+ChillerDragon> i even installed the cygwin installer to uninstall it but didnt help
12:12 <+ChillerDragon> im about to delete C:\MinGW :nuke:
12:13 <+ChillerDragon> yea that removed the last gcc i had in path poggies
12:15 <+ChillerDragon> yo @Robyt3 are you windows main user? u have some tips on how to setup stuff?
12:15 <+ChillerDragon> what package manager do you use?
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> holy shit whats C:\Qt 42GB :D
12:16 <+ChillerDragon> ima delete shit until my system breaks!
12:31 < bridge> <Robyt3> Most Windows users don't even know what a package manager is lol
12:32 < bridge> <Robyt3> For most of the past you go to the website of the program and download the installer (additional skill is required to avoid malware links)
12:32 < bridge> <Robyt3> Windows Store is basically a package manager, but I refuse to use it
12:32 < bridge> <Robyt3> For all development tools I use MSYS2
12:34 <+ChillerDragon> how do you keep them up to date?
12:34 <+ChillerDragon> my current speedrun on a fresh machine to compile ddnet on linux is around 10mins and on windows around 1 hour
12:34 < bridge> <Robyt3> Windows Store can auto-update, MSYS2 has `pacman -Syuu` (run twice), some programs have auto-updater included, other programs need to be redownloaded from the website
12:35 <+ChillerDragon> pacman? :D
12:35 <+ChillerDragon> where do you run pacman? in powershell?
12:35 < bridge> <Robyt3> Yeah, that's the package manager in MSYS2
12:35 <+ChillerDragon> mysys2 ships its own emulator and shell right?
12:35 < bridge> <Robyt3> I run it in "MSYS2 MSYS"
12:35 <+ChillerDragon> i think i have seen it earlier on my uninstall hunt
12:35 < bridge> <Robyt3> Yeah, it should include almost everything
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> so you only use this terminal
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> no powershell no cmd etc?
12:36 < bridge> <Robyt3> I also installed MinGW via MSYS2 because it was a mess before that
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> no wsl?
12:36 < bridge> <Robyt3> Not for updating
12:36 < bridge> <Robyt3> Haven't tried using WSL yet
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> ou no?
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> its pretty dope
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> (typed from my wsl)
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> in win11 it even allows you to run linux gui apps
12:36 < bridge> <Robyt3> Haven't had the need yet, MSYS2 also does the trick
12:37 <+ChillerDragon> and you install msys2 how?
12:37 < bridge> <Robyt3> And I'll skip Win 11 and go straight to Win 12
12:37 <+ChillerDragon> fair
12:37 <+ChillerDragon> will win12 be any better?
12:37 < bridge> <Robyt3> Hopefully better than Win 11
12:37 <+ChillerDragon> isnt it building on top of that?
12:38 < bridge> <Robyt3> From the feedback I see online it's like an open beta where users are supposed to find the bugs
12:38 < bridge> <Robyt3> Not something I want to use in production
12:38 <+ChillerDragon> btw i finally found a way to continue uninstalling the last 2 vs i had in some legacy win ui i am waiting since 10 min for it to apply the uninstaller in some fancy gui
12:38 < bridge> <Robyt3> https://www.msys2.org/wiki/MSYS2-installation/
12:39 <+ChillerDragon> is msys2 any new?
12:39 <+ChillerDragon> im a big confused with msys2 mingw and cygwin
12:39 <+ChillerDragon> bit*
12:39 <+ChillerDragon> but big also works i guess
12:39 < bridge> <Robyt3> I read somewhere that cygwin would be somewhat more performant than mingw, but I don't have any issues with MinGW
12:39 <+ChillerDragon> is it arch like and the same pacman from archlinux?
12:40 < bridge> <Robyt3> I installed MinGW in MSYS2, so I can update it from there
12:40 <+ChillerDragon> yea you mentioned that but why
12:40 <+ChillerDragon> why not use msys directly?
12:40 <+ChillerDragon> doesnt it ship a windows c compiler?
12:40 < bridge> <Robyt3> So I don't have to download the individual tools and libraries
12:41 <+ChillerDragon> do you have vs installed?
12:41 < bridge> <Robyt3> It caused issues in the past where I had different versions of tools mixed together
12:41 < bridge> <Robyt3> Yeah, but I rarely use VS
12:41 <+ChillerDragon> i see
12:41 <+ChillerDragon> what editor u use?
12:41 < bridge> <Robyt3> For ddnet I just use Sublime Text
12:41 < bridge> <Robyt3> For Java I use Eclipse
12:41 <+ChillerDragon> and the shell in msys2 is bash?
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> Yeah, bash is included in MSYS2
12:42 <+ChillerDragon> and `pwd` prints what? `C:\Users\etc..` ?
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> ```
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> C:\Users\Robert>pwd
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> /c/Users/Robert
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> 
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> C:\Users\Robert>which bash
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> /usr/bin/bash
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> ```
12:42 < bridge> <Robyt3> It does some path mapping I guess
12:42 <+ChillerDragon> interesting
12:43 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> vcpkg?
12:43 <+ChillerDragon> amazing it uses / and \
12:43 <+ChillerDragon> xd
12:43 < bridge> <Robyt3> So /usr/bin maps to a folder in the MSYS2 installation
12:43 <+ChillerDragon> in wsl its some /mnt/c/ etc
12:44 < bridge> <Robyt3> At this point everything works for me, so I don't really want to break my build process again
12:44 <+ChillerDragon> yea sounds sane
12:44 <+ChillerDragon> i mean mine worked super solid too
12:44 <+ChillerDragon> but its like a 10 yr old win machine i learned developing on so it was such a mess 
12:45 <+ChillerDragon> not that i care about this win setup but i guess it would make sense to update my win compile tutorial
12:45 <+ChillerDragon> to be less bloated
12:46 <+ChillerDragon> the msys2 setup seems sane
12:47 <+ChillerDragon> ok lol so the ideal windows development environment is archlinux? xd https://stackoverflow.com/a/25755481
12:47 <+ChillerDragon> good meme
13:32 <+ChillerDragon> da hegg is nmake?
13:33 <+ChillerDragon> https://paste.zillyhuhn.com/mS
13:33 <+ChillerDragon> does discord preview the paste snippets btw?
13:34 < bridge> <heinrich5991> no
13:35 < bridge> <Chairn> https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/11ofqw6/too_smart_to_get_played/
13:35 <+ChillerDragon> sad
13:36 <+ChillerDragon> fstd check useragent for discord crawler and send previewable paste html in pstd :p
13:36 < bridge> <Kaffeine> There is no preview because https://paste.zillyhuhn.com does not support The Open Graph protocol for that (https://ogp.me).
13:37 <+ChillerDragon> what kaffeine said fstd ^
13:37 <+ChillerDragon> wait only image not plain text or html?
13:37 <+ChillerDragon> are you saying pastebin is creating a image of the text for the preview?
13:43 <+ChillerDragon> https://paste.zillyhuhn.com/tI
13:43 <+ChillerDragon> does this work? xd
13:44 <+ChillerDragon> i guess i could adapt my paste post script to wrap it in thise tags thanks @Kaffeine
13:51 < bridge> <Chairn> it shows this
13:51 < bridge> <Chairn> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084096290260013166/image.png
14:01 <+ChillerDragon> looks hot doesnt it?
14:02 <+ChillerDragon> thanks for the image btw
14:39 < bridge> <Teero> ey is there anyway to render keystrokes while rendering a demo?
14:40 < bridge> <Robyt3> Raw keystrokes are not recorded in demos, so that's not possible
14:41 < bridge> <Teero> i can see them in the demo so why arent they enabled while rendering?
14:41 < bridge> <Teero> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1084108856524812408/image.png
14:43 < bridge> <Robyt3> Check cl_video_showhud and cl_video_show_direction variables
14:47 <+ChillerDragon> TIL running cmake . in the project root instead of a build folder puts a cache file there and when later moving to a build folder you can delete its content all you want it will use the parent folders cache
14:48 <+ChillerDragon> only took me 2h to figure out
14:50 < bridge> <Teero> kk ty
15:17 <+ChillerDragon> windows is easy they said
15:17 <+ChillerDragon> ``C:/Users/Chiller/Desktop/teeworlds/src/engine/shared/demo.cpp:129:1: internal compiler error: in i386_pe_seh_unwind_emit, at config/i386/winnt.c:1275``
15:18 < bridge> <heinrich5991> is this msvc?
15:19 <+ChillerDragon> its scoops gcc
15:19 <+ChillerDragon> https://scoop.sh/#/apps?s=0&d=1&o=true&q=gcc&id=fd50c09a38b69bd72e3483de086df59b976dcfbd
15:20 < bridge> <heinrich5991> perhaps that is the problem? ^^
15:20 <+ChillerDragon> ima try clang
15:20 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I wouldn't call it the windows way if you're downloading gcc :p
15:20 <+ChillerDragon> ok fair
15:20 <+ChillerDragon> im not using msys mingw or cygwin tho
15:21 <+ChillerDragon> im trying to find the fastest windows compile setup
15:21 <+ChillerDragon> shit clang has the same error
15:21 <+ChillerDragon> thats weird
15:23 < bridge> <heinrich5991> why not try msvc?
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> I am currently re-implementing my gRPC/Protobuf stuff into DDNet but somehow it wont work
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> In my cmake/* I do have a file called "FindGRPC.cmake":
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> ```
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> find_package(Protobuf REQUIRED)
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> include_directories(${PROTOBUF_INCLUDE_DIRS})
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> include_directories(${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR})
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> include(FetchContent)
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious> FetchContent_Declare(
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious>   gRPC
15:23 < bridge> <Avolicious>   GIT_REPOSITORY https://github.com/grpc/grpc
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>   GIT_TAG        v1.52.1  # e.g v1.28.0
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> )
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> set(FETCHCONTENT_QUIET OFF)
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> FetchContent_MakeAvailable(gRPC)
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> ```
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> Which is working so far ( it clones the repository and all of its submodules )
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> In the CMakeList I've added 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> ```
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> add_library(proto-objects OBJECT "${CMAKE_CURRENT_LIST_DIR}/proto/server.proto")
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> target_link_libraries(proto-objects PUBLIC protobuf::libprotobuf gRPC::grpc gRPC::grpc++_unsecure)
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> set(PROTO_BINARY_DIR "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/src/game/generated")
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> set(PROTO_IMPORT_DIRS "${CMAKE_CURRENT_LIST_DIR}/proto")
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> protobuf_generate(
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>     LANGUAGE cpp
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> But it fails with 
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> ```
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>  CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.18/Modules/FindProtobuf.cmake:227 (add_custom_command):
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>    add_custom_command called with OUTPUT containing a "<".  This character is
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>    not allowed.
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>  Call Stack (most recent call first):
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious>    CMakeLists.txt:1880 (protobuf_generate)
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> ```
15:24 < bridge> <Avolicious> It worked on my previous attempt, but only if I install everything globally on the system which is not best practice & recommended by Google
15:25 <+ChillerDragon> @heinrich5991 how do you recommend installing msvc? whats that again the vs compiler?
15:47 <+ChillerDragon> ok i give up wont redo my windows compile tut :D
15:48 <+ChillerDragon> i guess there is a reason nobody seems to use scoop :D
15:53 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I guess check where thte `<` comes from
15:57 <+ChillerDragon> yea whats at ``/usr/share/cmake-3.18/Modules/FindProtobuf.cmake:227`` ?
15:58 <+ChillerDragon> and ``CMakeLists.txt:1880``
15:58 <+ChillerDragon> i guess on irc only half of the output arrived due to ratelimit
15:59 <+ChillerDragon> could you just link your repo?
16:42 < bridge> <Chairn> link repo? It's fucking gores man 😄
16:42 < bridge> <Chairn> it's closed source
17:02 < bridge> <Ryozuki> gores bad
17:03 < bridge> <Ryozuki> agpl would have prevented that
17:05 < bridge> <Ryozuki> github should have a button on a repo that says "go to your fork" or smth
17:06 < bridge> <heinrich5991> click the fork button
17:06 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I think
17:07 < bridge> <Ryozuki> ah not the button but the down arrow
17:07 < bridge> <Ryozuki> it shows ur forks
17:07 < bridge> <Ryozuki> good to know
17:08 < bridge> <Ryozuki> <https://github.com/edg-l/ddnet-map-gen> updated twmap to 0.10
17:08 < bridge> <Ryozuki> didnt know about the vek crate
17:08 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://crates.io/crates/vek
17:08 < bridge> <Ryozuki> twmap uses it
17:08 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://github.com/yoanlcq/vek/wiki
17:12 < bridge> <Avolicious> What exactly should be bad about being closed source?
17:12 < bridge> <Avolicious> You're working on DDNet, its open source. Everything you wanna do, you can
17:13 < bridge> <Ryozuki> my four essential freedoms are not met
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> ```
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki>     The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki>     The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki>     The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki>     The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> ```
17:14 < bridge> <Avolicious> You can host Gores maps with DDnet
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> my client is communicating with a closed source software
17:14 < bridge> <Avolicious> You dont have to play on KoG-Gores
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> u wont win on this on me
17:14 < bridge> <Avolicious> So basically even if we open source kog, you still would have conflicts
17:14 < bridge> <Avolicious> Our maps provider is cloudflare R2
17:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> why?
17:15 < bridge> <Ryozuki> hmm yeah but my conflicts would be with cloudflare
17:15 < bridge> <Avolicious> So you are downloading maps from a closed source system
17:15 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yeah
17:15 < bridge> <Ryozuki> agpl would have prevented closed source kog
17:15 < bridge> <Ryozuki> shame
17:15 < bridge> <cyberFighter> is the video recorder broken for anyone else
17:16 < bridge> <Avolicious> Still the question, what benefit would you get from kog source?
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> my freedoms i listed
17:16 < bridge> <Avolicious> gRPC & Redis intregation?
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> if you dont value those, thats on you
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i value them highly
17:16 < bridge> <Avolicious> You can host gores maps with DDNet, which is open source
17:16 < bridge> <Avolicious> Dont get the point
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> nnono
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you dont get  the point
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but its ok
17:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> your a closed source dev
17:16 < bridge> <Avolicious> 🙂
17:17 < bridge> <Ryozuki> we simply have different values
17:17 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i value user freedom
17:17 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you value... having a closed source  network? whathever
17:17 < bridge> <Avolicious> I am working on a lot of open source tools & maintain them, but in kog I dont see any benefit or value for going open source
17:17 < bridge> <Avolicious> Only more overhead
17:17 < bridge> <Ryozuki> thats such a lame excuse  ngl
17:18 < bridge> <louis> 🤓
17:18 < bridge> <Avolicious> No excuse, just hitting the hard facts. Maintaining an open source project adds overhead
17:18 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i dontsee facts here, only a scared person
17:18 < bridge> <Avolicious> If you get paid for it, its different
17:19 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you can make ur it open source and be a total dictator about the code in ur repo
17:19 < bridge> <Ryozuki> its fine if u dont want to be BDFL for the project
17:19 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you can even totally dismiss any contribution
17:19 < bridge> <Ryozuki> yet be open source
17:19 < bridge> <Ryozuki> others can fork, investigate, learn, improve on their own
17:19 < bridge> <Ryozuki> u dismiss user freedom by a lame excuse
17:20 < bridge> <Avolicious> Its DDNet 😄
17:20 < bridge> <Avolicious> Download DDNet recent version & you do have KoG
17:20 < bridge> <Ryozuki> its ok this is worthless xd
17:22 < bridge> <louis> u know ryo u wont change anyones mind the way you argue
17:22 < bridge> <Ryozuki> honestly, i never expect them to change their mind, cuz people rarely change
17:23 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i know im a bit overbearing, but thats how i am
17:38 <+ChillerDragon> @Avolicious if nobody benefits from kog code whats the harm in sharing it? i mean you can also apply your changes to ddnet and share that code base i do not mind. But i would like to run cmake my self and play around with it
17:40 <+ChillerDragon> ah didnt read the overhead part? whats the overhead? having to maintain community made prs and issues?
17:40 <+ChillerDragon> i guess there is read only open source too
17:40 < bridge> <Avolicious> One of it
17:40 <+ChillerDragon> tw does that :D
17:40 < bridge> <Avolicious> Mostly support
17:41 <+ChillerDragon> just dont support then?
17:41 < bridge> <Avolicious> This is not my philosophy of being open source
17:41 <+ChillerDragon> ok
17:41 <+ChillerDragon> did u fix grpc yet?
17:41 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yeah
17:41 <+ChillerDragon> poggies
17:41 < bridge> <Avolicious> Currently fixing some stuff for Alpine and GLIBC
17:42 <+ChillerDragon> kubernetes moment
17:42 < bridge> <Avolicious> We do use K3s
17:42 <+ChillerDragon> tons of work zero useful
17:42 <+ChillerDragon> xaxaxax
17:42 < bridge> <Avolicious> But the containers are currently around 500MB to 1GB in total size
17:42 <+ChillerDragon> im big docker/kubernetes hater
17:43 < bridge> <Avolicious> I have now managed to use alpine with glibc and go down to 40 MB
17:43 <+ChillerDragon> gj
17:43 < bridge> <Avolicious> So you are not a big fan of being scalable
17:43 < bridge> <Ryozuki> chiller did u know kubernetes and such astuff is the only way to web scale?
17:43 <+ChillerDragon> well thats the only argument people ever bring
17:43 < bridge> <Ryozuki> kek
17:43 <+ChillerDragon> but i dont buy it
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> i can also scale w out kubernetes
17:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i also dont buy it
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> btw wat u need grpc for?
17:44 < bridge> <Avolicious> Not within a reasonable timeframe
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> how does it scale faster?
17:44 < bridge> <Avolicious> Get rid of mysql support ^^
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> oof
17:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> add mongodb
17:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> it is web scale
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> wdym?
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> xd
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxD
17:44 <+ChillerDragon> it supports sharding
17:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs
17:45 <+ChillerDragon> how does grpc replace mysql?
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i guess he fetches and sends data using grpc calls
17:45 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yes
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> instead of having the mysql client in the client
17:45 < bridge> <Avolicious> Correct
17:45 <+ChillerDragon> ah i see
17:45 < bridge> <Avolicious> Bans are also synced across the fleet
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> well server*
17:46 < bridge> <Avolicious> FIFO files are not used anymore
17:46 <+ChillerDragon> so you implement your own database protocol?
17:46 <+ChillerDragon> sounds like work
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> does grpc use protobuf
17:46 <+ChillerDragon> where do you store it in the end? still mysql?
17:46 < bridge> <Avolicious> No, it terminates at the gRPC server
17:46 < bridge> <Avolicious> yes
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> or do they bloat with json
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
17:46 < bridge> <Avolicious> No
17:46 < bridge> <Avolicious> protobuf
17:46 < bridge> <Avolicious> Its SQL, yes
17:46 <+ChillerDragon> ok back to scaling
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://github.com/hyperium/tonic
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> pog library
17:47 <+ChillerDragon> you have like what? around 10 vps for kog running kubernetes clusters on them? if the load gets too high how do you scale? 
17:47 < bridge> <Ryozuki> honestly grpc is not a bad idea
17:47 < bridge> <Ryozuki> well idk what deps it adds
17:47 < bridge> <Avolicious> Using Terraform to get more servers if available
17:47 <+ChillerDragon> i see
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but its hilarious cuz ddnet is double or triple the size
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> and makes do
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
17:48 <+ChillerDragon> but then u scale using terraform not using kubernetes
17:48 < bridge> <Avolicious> Wrong
17:48 <+ChillerDragon> xd
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> im also ootl on the words and programs for this
17:48 <+ChillerDragon> you could also run a apt install and a git clone ur self
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but i never needed it either
17:48 <+ChillerDragon> or via terraform i mean
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> its like preparing for the apocalipse when just spinning 1 server would do
17:49 <+ChillerDragon> its one pod per tw server anyways right @Avolicious?
17:49 <+ChillerDragon> you can just scale up more servers right?
17:49 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yes
17:49 < bridge> <Ryozuki> scale up to the moon
17:49 < bridge> <Avolicious> Correct
17:49 < bridge> <Ryozuki> 🚀
17:49 <+ChillerDragon> but do you actually do that?
17:49 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yes
17:49 <+ChillerDragon> scale down servers and up again depending on the user load?
17:49 < bridge> <Avolicious> We use ArgoCD for our deployment
17:49 < bridge> <Avolicious> No
17:49 <+ChillerDragon> idk dat
17:50 < bridge> <Avolicious> There is no dynamical scaling enabled yet
17:50 <+ChillerDragon> do you manually trigger it?
17:50 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yes
17:50 <+ChillerDragon> how often?
17:50 < bridge> <Avolicious> Depends on if we get a new location or not 🙂
17:50 <+ChillerDragon> im still not convienced somehow
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> The more enjoyable part is the maintenance
17:51 <+ChillerDragon> deen for example also just runs a provision script on a new location and is ready pretty fast
17:51 < bridge> <Ryozuki> its cuz he enjoys the tech
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> ArgoCD keeps everything in sync, dont need to do anything on the hosts itself
17:51 < bridge> <Ryozuki> so he uses it
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> Using Ansible to keep them updates
17:51 <+ChillerDragon> like what? os updates?
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> Using Ansible to keep them updated
17:51 <+ChillerDragon> hm
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> No
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> Ansible for Host stuff, ArgoCD for the K3s
17:51 < bridge> <Avolicious> Terraform for git declarative infrastructure
17:51 <+ChillerDragon> jesus u use it all
17:51 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
17:52 < bridge> <Ryozuki> a mad sysadmin
17:52 <+ChillerDragon> how much time do you spend on setting it up?
17:52 < bridge> <Avolicious> Not that much, using it for big scale projects in my daily work
17:52 <+ChillerDragon> and was it worth saving on running apt update every now and then?
17:52 < bridge> <Avolicious> It is indeed
17:52 < bridge> <Avolicious> SSH Key rotation works like a charm
17:52 < bridge> <Ryozuki> idk if i would trust auto appt updates
17:53 <+ChillerDragon> why do you rotate ssh keys?
17:53 <+ChillerDragon> i inherited mine from my grand pa
17:53 < bridge> <Ryozuki> he gotta protect the source code with max security
17:53 <+ChillerDragon> i see
17:53 < bridge> <Avolicious> Mostly security
17:53 < bridge> <Avolicious> We use HashiCorp Vault for secrets and HashiCorp Boundary for SSH
17:53 <+ChillerDragon> o dat mf
17:53 < bridge> <Ryozuki> the corporations
17:53 <+ChillerDragon> thats imo the only advantage of closed src
17:54 <+ChillerDragon> not using hashicorp
17:54 <+ChillerDragon> just put secrets in the private git repo in plain text
17:54 < bridge> <Avolicious> We dont have secrets in the git repo
17:54 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xddd
17:54 <+ChillerDragon> but why
17:54 < bridge> <Avolicious> Because we use a vault
17:54 <+ChillerDragon> then you do not profit on closed src
17:54 < bridge> <Ryozuki> chiller do u save ur passwords on a private repo
17:54 <+ChillerDragon> yes
17:55 < bridge> <heinrich5991> don't do it
17:55 <+ChillerDragon> i mean i can hate the new kids devops all day but i gotta admit im still interested in your setup
17:55 <+ChillerDragon> why not heinrich?
17:56 < bridge> <heinrich5991> because git repos tend to become public at some point :p
17:56 <+ChillerDragon> ?xd
17:56 <+ChillerDragon> wdym
17:56 < bridge> <Ryozuki> chiller did u ever use pass
17:56 <+ChillerDragon> yes
17:56 <+ChillerDragon> its my main pw manager
17:56 < bridge> <Ryozuki> nice
17:56 <+ChillerDragon> for work and private
17:57 <+ChillerDragon> how does a git repo tend to become more public than some annoying secret vault?
17:57 < bridge> <Avolicious> Why should it be annoying?
17:57 <+ChillerDragon> i used it bro
17:57 <+ChillerDragon> i was annoyed
17:57 < bridge> <Avolicious> Maybe you used it wrong
17:57 < bridge> <Avolicious> 🤔
17:57 <+ChillerDragon> ye for sure i did
17:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> well ur vault is probs encrypted
17:58 <+ChillerDragon> probably also use kubernetes and ansible wrong xd
17:58 < bridge> <Avolicious> Might be
17:58 < bridge> <Avolicious> The interesting part is hashicorp vault sidecar for k3s/k8s
17:58 <+ChillerDragon> but i gotta say the little xp i have with terraform was pleasing
17:59 <+ChillerDragon> how did u convince the old russian to bloat in all that crap? :D
17:59 < bridge> <Avolicious> Who?
17:59 <+ChillerDragon> no front
17:59 <+ChillerDragon> qshar
18:00 <+ChillerDragon> or did he rq already?
18:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> is qshar active
18:00 < bridge> <Avolicious> No need to convince
18:00 < bridge> <Avolicious> It was part of the maintenance project
18:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> whenver i go to kog discord i only see rly stupid discussions xd
18:00 < bridge> <Avolicious> Making it easier
18:00 <+ChillerDragon> kog discord doesnt have any bridges
18:00 <+ChillerDragon> its sad
18:01 <+ChillerDragon> does qshar now use all the k3s stuff instead of whatever he had before?
18:01 <+ChillerDragon> how hands on is he these days?
18:01 < bridge> <Avolicious> There is no need to do anything with k3s
18:01 <+ChillerDragon> seems like you kinda fully overhauled his infrastructure
18:01 <+ChillerDragon> does he even understand how it works? :D
18:01 < bridge> <Avolicious> Why shouldnt he?
18:01 < bridge> <Avolicious> Qshar is a smart guy
18:01 <+ChillerDragon> uhm idk because you did it?
18:02 < bridge> <Avolicious> So because I used modern tech, nobody else would know how it works?
18:02 <+ChillerDragon> what did he use before?
18:02 < bridge> <Avolicious> Before servers where setup semi-automatic
18:03 < bridge> <Avolicious> which leads to high maintenance times
18:03 <+ChillerDragon> ok whatever that means sounds different than the current setup
18:03 < bridge> <Avolicious> Its different of course
18:03 <+ChillerDragon> so one has to learn that right?
18:03 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yes
18:03 <+ChillerDragon> if someone replaces your infrastructure isnt there a chance it can be confusing?
18:04 < bridge> <Avolicious> Why should it be?
18:04 < bridge> <Avolicious> Everything is documented
18:04 <+ChillerDragon> xd
18:04 <+ChillerDragon> ok
18:04 <+ChillerDragon> maybe i should ask qshar him self you clearly think its all obvious
18:04 < bridge> <Avolicious> Go for it 🙂
18:04 <+ChillerDragon> if its all documented why not make it open source then? xd
18:04 < bridge> <Avolicious> What would be the benefit? All of it is available for anyone
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> Do you want my configuration files
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> ?
18:05 <+ChillerDragon> yes
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> Ah I see
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> Thats not how open source works ^^
18:05 <+ChillerDragon> why not?
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> All tools we are using are free to use for everyone
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> Mostly all of them are open source
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> Configuration is not open sourceable
18:05 <+ChillerDragon> you clearly have at least one repo with infrastructure as code right?
18:05 < bridge> <Avolicious> Yes
18:06 <+ChillerDragon> why is it not opensourceable?
18:06 < bridge> <Avolicious> Because the configuration is based upon our network & how we would like to run it
18:06 <+ChillerDragon> so?
18:06 < bridge> <Avolicious> Network configuration differs
18:06 < bridge> <Avolicious> DDNet runs their servers different than we do
18:06 <+ChillerDragon> ok
18:06 < bridge> <heinrich5991> might still be interesting to look at though
18:06 <+ChillerDragon> and?
18:07 < bridge> <heinrich5991> like the ddnet-scripts repo
18:07 < bridge> <heinrich5991> also not really useful for others
18:07 <+ChillerDragon> i still look at ddnet scripts that have hardcodet paths with deen in them xd
18:07 < bridge> <heinrich5991> but still interesting
18:07 <+ChillerDragon> it has some useful pieces actually
18:08 <+ChillerDragon> if you go through the effort of using secret vaults and documenting everything might as well share it right?
18:08 < bridge> <Avolicious> If I'll find the time, I'll write a blog post about it
18:09 <+ChillerDragon> xd also cool
18:09 <+ChillerDragon> but there is no need to put in additional work to share what you currently have
18:10 <+ChillerDragon> im sure you also just find secret vaults annoying and the repo is full of confidental stuff hehe :p
18:10 < bridge> <Avolicious> True, just open sourcing all our config files would be no effort
18:10 <+ChillerDragon> are you being irconic?
18:10 <+ChillerDragon> ironic*
18:10 <+ChillerDragon> a
18:10 < bridge> <Avolicious> But I dont see any benefit yet of open source our configuration, its highly built upon how we run our clusters
18:10 <+ChillerDragon> i dont see a harm
18:10 <+ChillerDragon> the benefit is i want to see it
18:11 < bridge> <Avolicious> Thats easy
18:11 < bridge> <Avolicious> https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/language
18:11 < bridge> <Avolicious> https://developer.hashicorp.com/vault/docs
18:11 < bridge> <Avolicious> https://docs.ansible.com/
18:11 <+ChillerDragon> omg
18:11 <+ChillerDragon> trol
18:11 <+ChillerDragon> ok i go rq
18:12 < bridge> <Avolicious> All we used is also being written in the official docs, no hidden secret sauce, trust me
18:13 <+ChillerDragon> yo @fokkonaut next time someone asks for fddr code just link c++ standard and say its all in there xd
18:13 < bridge> <fokkonaut> xd
18:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> the kog source code is here
18:16 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://libraryofbabel.info/
21:06 < bridge> <Learath2> One day I'll bother with writing ansible playbooks to deploy ddnet servers
21:37 < bridge> <heinrich5991> sounds cool 🙂
21:37 < bridge> <heinrich5991> do you know ansible?
21:38 < bridge> <ReiTW> ansible, terraform, etc..
21:39 < bridge> <ReiTW> All of that are cool
21:54 < bridge> <Avolicious> Thats fun
22:25 < bridge> <Learath2> A fair bit though I've never written any playbook to be deployed, so not sure if counts 😄