00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> @fokkonaut @Jupeyy_Keks DDracemaX : some alpha/beta more offline than online state was 2009-2010 (feb/march)
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> DDracemaX (24h online) start at end of february / beginning of march  (so we could assume 1st of march 2010)
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> DDNet started on 18th of July 2013  (if ddnets timeline on wiki says the truth)
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> DDracemaX shutdown in first half of october 2014
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> 
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> Map challenge which deen first finished on ddnet (thats what jupstar wrote)
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> was released on DDracemaX first and it was probably released on 31st of july 2012 
00:50 < bridge> <Tsin> hope that will clear your debate you guys had 2 days ago =]
08:02 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> 2009 bruh. We probably have players that are younger than that xd
08:05 < bridge> <chillerdragon> yes
08:06 < bridge> <chillerdragon> i just talked to a 8yr
08:06 < bridge> <chillerdragon> image.png
08:06 < bridge> <chillerdragon> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083647048324235284/image.png
08:06 < bridge> <chillerdragon> was a epic conversation
08:28 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
08:46 < bridge> <Souly> oh hi thats me
08:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> anyone from hamburger?
08:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i hear there was a shooting
08:58 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://www.dw.com/en/several-people-shot-dead-at-hamburg-jehovahs-witness-hall/a-64938984
09:03 <+ChillerDragon> hamburger xd
09:03 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Cheeseburger
09:04 <+ChillerDragon> why do you consume german news ryo?
09:04 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Germany has the best journalism network wordlwide
09:09 <+ChillerDragon> everytime germany is the topic im tempted to make nazi jokes :D
09:11 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> As a German? That's the task of the non Germans
09:12 <+ChillerDragon> ikr
09:14 <+ChillerDragon> yo @deen @heinrich5991 sos what about ddnet 0.7 client now? I spent a bunch of time on it and kinda expected to get a even earlier state merged already. The delayed merge and comments about it being unwanted kinda demotivated me.
09:14 <+ChillerDragon> am i wasting my time if i keep working on polishing it?
09:14 <+ChillerDragon> idk who to ping hoestly who is deciding stuff in the end?
09:14 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> You waste your time
09:15 <+ChillerDragon> yea i knew you and ryo would say that ._.
09:15 <+ChillerDragon> but heinrich did mention he is willing to merge it
09:16 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> So u want Heinrich to be a dictator
09:16 <+ChillerDragon> honestly?
09:16 <+ChillerDragon> yes
09:16 <+ChillerDragon> :D
09:16 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Coup incoming
09:17 <+ChillerDragon> tho heinrich might break vanilla compatbility with new ddnet protocol
09:18 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> If he ain't loosing motivation for it
09:18 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Even he must notice that backwards compatibility sucks
09:18 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> BCS more work for almost no gain
09:22 <+ChillerDragon> some mac user online?
09:30 < bridge> <Matodor> pls allow 0.7 to die 🥺
09:30 <+ChillerDragon> no because vanilla died with it
09:30 < bridge> <Matodor> 10 vanilla players? 😭
09:30 <+ChillerDragon> yes
09:31 <+ChillerDragon> i dont understand why you want it to die 
09:32 < bridge> <Matodor> i runned a vanilla server with support for 0.7 and 0.6 protocol for old russian vanilla players, this is enough to calmly play vanilla, there is no need to shove 0.7 support into the ddnet client
09:32 <+ChillerDragon> that doesnt really reach the vanilla players i was talking about but its still nice
09:32 <+ChillerDragon> is it open source?
09:32 < bridge> <Matodor> https://github.com/TeeworldsCN/ddnet-pvp/
09:33 <+ChillerDragon> imo all these bridges and two versions is super annoying so for me it makes total sense to move everything to 0.7
09:36 <+ChillerDragon> Could some mac and linux users please share the outpu of this command? ``bash -c "$(curl -s https://paste.zillyhuhn.com/RM)"`` im trying to figure out of the homebrew installer git version check is stable on all systems
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> ♥ tee.community - PVP | RU #1
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> Address: ddnet://37.230.162.198:8304
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> My IGN: Matodor
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> 
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> ChillerDragon you can test it
09:37 <+ChillerDragon> ok nice
09:37 <+ChillerDragon> ima do
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> 😄
09:37 < bridge> <Matodor> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083669951723884714/image.png
09:42 < bridge> <судный день.> chillerdragon why you dont use discord
09:43 <+ChillerDragon> gg srv crash axaxax
09:43 < bridge> <судный день.> waht
09:43 <+ChillerDragon> i dont like discord tos
09:43 < bridge> <судный день.> oh
09:43 < bridge> <судный день.> smort
09:43 < bridge> <Matodor> :brownbear:
09:43 <+ChillerDragon> also im banned on discord for not giving them my phone number
09:43 < bridge> <судный день.> they gays
09:43 <+ChillerDragon> i can not use a non electron non web client
09:44 <+ChillerDragon> because the poggies discord client cordless is illegal
09:44 < bridge> <судный день.> didnt know discord has such limitations
09:44 <+ChillerDragon> i dont understand their business model and feel like its just there to collect data and not very privacy respecting or community driven
09:45 <+ChillerDragon> i just feel so much better without discord idk hard to explain
09:46 < bridge> <Matodor> ChillerDragon it's not my mod, it by TsFreddie @TsFreddie
09:46 < bridge> <Matodor> i just fork and host it
09:46 < bridge> <Matodor> if you're worried about vanilla players you better take the time to improve this mod, old vanilla players will thank you)
09:47 <+ChillerDragon> sadly i do not think that the vanilla players i care about would join this server if they are even still alive
09:48 <+ChillerDragon> i care about two kinds. the pure vanilla noobs and the pure vanilla pros. The former doesnt know how to install ddnet or remove the filter to join non standard gametypes and non standard maps. The latter is too OG to touch something impure.
09:49 <+ChillerDragon> modded vanilla never worked i would love to see it but i do not think it will be a thing
09:51 < bridge> <Matodor> > The latter is too OG to touch something impure.
09:51 < bridge> <Matodor> 
09:51 < bridge> <Matodor> TRUE
09:51 < bridge> <Matodor> they asked me to add a bunch of new vanilla maps, but as a result they never played them and they play dm1,ctf1 2 3 ............
09:52 <+ChillerDragon> yea ctf5 is ddnets multimap
09:52 <+ChillerDragon> or csgo's dust II
09:53 <+ChillerDragon> or blocks blmapv3royal
09:53 <+ChillerDragon> its hard to change or replace
09:55 <+ChillerDragon> anyways staying compatible with 0.6 doesn't make too much sense dropping 0.6 in favor of 0.7 seems obvious doesn't it? Its just a bit of work. Thats why i am a bit confused why people complain if i do the work
10:10 < bridge> <Ryozuki> my local news had this lel
10:12 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083678737431801896/lf4e8gbyaqma1.jpg
10:36 <+ChillerDragon> your local news probably just copy pasted german news into translator and called it a day
10:36 <+ChillerDragon> smort working
10:50 < bridge> <AssassinTee> nice, can be used for ingame minimaps 😮
12:29 < bridge> <heinrich5991> > anyways staying compatible with 0.6 doesn't make too much sense dropping 0.6 in favor of 0.7 seems obvious doesn't it? Its just a bit of work. Thats why i am a bit confused why people complain if i do the work
12:29 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I think jupstar explained why 0.7 compatibility isn't really related to this. we can drop 0.6 compatibility independently of 0.7 compatibility, and we're likely never going to base the ddnet protocol itself on top of 0.7. I still do think it'd be nice if our client could connect to 0.7 servers
12:30 < bridge> <heinrich5991> (ChillerDragon)
12:30 <+ChillerDragon> okay then its additional complexity tho 
12:33 < bridge> <heinrich5991> what's additional complexity?
12:36 <+ChillerDragon> keeping 0.7 and 0.6 instead of updating to 0.7
12:37 <+ChillerDragon> i mean i am fine with that but clearly others arent
12:37 <+ChillerDragon> so is there a chance it will ever be merged and what do i have to do for it to happen?
13:11 < bridge> <murpi> I'll ask the guy once more about the precise details of the crash. Communicating with him can be quite challenging given his limited English proficiency ^^
13:12 < bridge> <Robyt3> https://www.deepl.com/translator is really good, so I guess he could try using that if English is too difficult
13:12 < bridge> <murpi> Could additional crash logs be of any assistance?
13:13 < bridge> <Robyt3> Maybe if they are different than the first one
13:14 < bridge> <Robyt3> Maybe he sent a different crash log than the one for the crash in the main menu
13:16 < bridge> <murpi> Here are all the remaining crash logs:
13:16 < bridge> <murpi> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083725144276611152/Crash_Logs.zip
13:18 < bridge> <Robyt3> Thanks, I'll take a look later today
13:19 < bridge> <murpi> Thank you, too 🙂
13:54 <+ChillerDragon> how illegal is it to yoink code from linux?
13:54 <+ChillerDragon> lawyer jopsetr u here?
13:54 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it's gpl2
13:56 <+ChillerDragon> yes thats why im asking
13:56 <+ChillerDragon> gpl always tricky 
13:56 <+ChillerDragon> i can not just copy gpl2 code into a tw code base right?
13:56 < bridge> <heinrich5991> correct
13:56 < bridge> <heinrich5991> that's no property of gpl2, it's a property of every license
13:57 <+ChillerDragon> so will i go to jail now?
13:57 <+ChillerDragon> i rly wanna yoink this :D
13:58 < bridge> <heinrich5991> if you relicense your fork to gpl2, you can yoink it
13:58 <+ChillerDragon> yea right
13:58 <+ChillerDragon> yiiikers
13:58 <+ChillerDragon> so people can not yoink my code then
13:58 <+ChillerDragon> even if i allow them right?
13:59 <+ChillerDragon> unless they also inherit gpl2
13:59 <+ChillerDragon> which requires them to publish code to all their users
13:59 < bridge> <heinrich5991> you can license everything but that code snippet under your license a well
13:59 < bridge> <heinrich5991> that's correct
13:59 <+ChillerDragon> oh wot?
13:59 <+ChillerDragon> so i can create a linux_yoinked.h with a // gpl2 comment and all done?
14:00 <+ChillerDragon> is it that easy?
14:00 <+ChillerDragon> seems like cheating
14:00 < bridge> <heinrich5991> yes, but the rest of your code will need to be licensed under the GPL2 as well
14:00 < bridge> <heinrich5991> but that's no problem, because your current license is less restrictive
14:00 < bridge> <heinrich5991> it basically just gives the users the right to use your existing code under GPL2 as well as your current licnese
14:00 <+ChillerDragon> yes but itll restrict all code i write
14:00 <+ChillerDragon> oh wow
14:00 < bridge> <heinrich5991> no
14:00 <+ChillerDragon> oh
14:00 <+ChillerDragon> they can choose then?
14:01 < bridge> <heinrich5991> for everything but the snippet yes
14:01 < bridge> <heinrich5991> if they don't want to open their code, then they have to remove the snippet
14:01 <+ChillerDragon> interesting
14:01 <+ChillerDragon> thanks lawyer heinrich
14:02 <+ChillerDragon> wait i can modify it too right?
14:07 < bridge> <heinrich5991> yes
14:07 < bridge> <heinrich5991> but your modification is under the GPL only
14:07 <+ChillerDragon> ye thats fine
14:08 <+ChillerDragon> rq lerato
14:08 <+ChillerDragon> wb lerato
14:08 <+ChillerDragon> @Learath2 is your bouncer ok?
14:09 < bridge> <Ryozuki> use gpl3 chiller
14:09 < bridge> <Ryozuki> for ur code
14:09 < bridge> <Ryozuki> agpl3 if its server code
14:09 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pragmatic.en.html
14:11 <+ChillerDragon> nah i dont like restrictive or infectous licenses
14:11 <+ChillerDragon> it only causes headache
14:12 < bridge> <Ryozuki> no
14:12 <+ChillerDragon> i want people yoinking my code not needing a lawyer
14:12 < bridge> <Ryozuki> its the opposite
14:12 < bridge> <Ryozuki> it makes it so peopel can yoink ur code, and ensures other people can also yoink the yoinker code
14:12 <+ChillerDragon> yes and if the yoinker doesnt want to get yoinked
14:12 <+ChillerDragon> its annoying
14:12 < bridge> <Ryozuki> thats bad
14:13 <+ChillerDragon> yes i agree
14:13 < bridge> <heinrich5991> why do you have empathy with the person who doesn't want to share their code? ^^
14:13 < bridge> <Ryozuki> my new language edlang is AGPL3
14:13 < bridge> <Ryozuki> kek
14:13 <+ChillerDragon> idk i am big on open source and so on but i also have closed src stuff
14:13 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but well gpl restrictions on a language dont extend to generated code or programs
14:13 <+ChillerDragon> like tw cheats :D 
14:13 <+ChillerDragon> or private stuff idk
14:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> do note that you can have "private" software with GPL, you only need to share the source code to the people you share the program
14:14 < bridge> <Ryozuki> to comply with the license
14:14 <+ChillerDragon> yea i know
14:14 <+ChillerDragon> but i dont know take for example F-DDrace which is closed src
14:14 <+ChillerDragon> if tw was gpl that couldnt exist
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> or yea maybe it would be public then idk :D
14:15 < bridge> <Ryozuki> long time ago  iconvinced fokko to make it open ssource
14:15 < bridge> <Learath2> Is it spam leave/joining?
14:15 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but i guess he retracted
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> nah it only hiccuped once lerato
14:15 < bridge> <heinrich5991> the server mod could still be closed with gpl3
14:15 < bridge> <heinrich5991> just not with agpl3
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> is a client not a user of a server in gpl3?
14:15 <+ChillerDragon> same for websites?
14:16 <+ChillerDragon> so if i yoink any gpl3 code i can put it in my closed src web app?
14:16 <+ChillerDragon> ryo you convinced fokko? i thought i did? :D
14:17 <+ChillerDragon> lets go propritary web linux
14:19 < bridge> <heinrich5991> correct
14:19 < bridge> <heinrich5991> that's the difference between agpl3 and gpl3
14:22 < bridge> <Ryozuki> thats why agpl is better
14:23 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > The GNU Affero General Public License is a free, copyleft license for software and other kinds of works, specifically designed to ensure cooperation with the community in the case of network server software.
14:23 < bridge> <Ryozuki> @heinrich5991 altho i read on and about about ways to skip this
14:23 < bridge> <Ryozuki> e.g people putting a proxy before it reaches the server
14:24 < bridge> <Ryozuki> sad
14:24 < bridge> <heinrich5991> that seems irrelevant
14:24 < bridge> <Ryozuki> idk xD
14:24 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/4471/agpl-violation-using-reverse-proxy
14:25 < bridge> <heinrich5991> > proxying does not have any impact IMHO
14:26 < bridge> <Ryozuki> nice
14:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> It's less free
14:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> BCS it removes now freedom from the software
14:29 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> More
14:31 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> @Ryozuki i have a question
14:32 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> If I cannot give u my modifications of your agpl source code before u die. Would u say I broke the law?
14:33 <+ChillerDragon> i dont think death has much legal implications
14:34 <+ChillerDragon> there probably should be a clause about how much time you have to publish your code
14:34 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Is there?
14:34 <+ChillerDragon> i do not know
14:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I wonder if I take agpl code in my spaceship and travel to the other side of the universe. Am I never allowed to modify the source? Xd
14:35 <+ChillerDragon> but im pretty sure you wont get in legal trouble if you send a CD and it gets stuck in DHL for a few weeks and the recpient dies during that time
14:35 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Any kind of copyright sucks
14:35 <+ChillerDragon> +
14:35 <+ChillerDragon> i wonder if you have to be reachable
14:36 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I wonder who has to be reachable at all
14:36 <+ChillerDragon> i assume website owners have to be
14:36 <+ChillerDragon> isnt reading mail a legal obligation?
14:36 <+ChillerDragon> and a valid impressum etc
14:37 <+ChillerDragon> i doubt you get by yoinking of agpl3 code and then not answering your phone when someone asks for code
14:37 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> What even does it mean to not share the modified source code. Privatly it's allowed to modify it without releasing the modification. But what if I own the whole world
14:38 <+ChillerDragon> you own the whole world? :D
14:38 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Soon™️
14:38 <+ChillerDragon> and then everything you do would be private?
14:38 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Man I'd be the closest source man
14:38 <+ChillerDragon> sounds like a law meme
14:39 <+ChillerDragon> ok seems like yoinking linux code has not the same effect what is on my system
14:40 <+ChillerDragon> so it wont help me anyways
14:40 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Hi, does anyone have an idea what an increased ping/prediction time can be caused by?
14:41 < bridge> <fokkonaut> F-DDrace has a little higher latency/prediction time (debug menu) than official servers. This is even noticable on LAN servers. I wonder why, because CPU is totally fine, and I have profiled it locally, there is no extreme bottleneck.
14:41 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Vanilla 0.7 seems to be fine, and DDNet seems to be fine too. My mod is based on 0.7, so I dont know where exactly this might come from.
14:41 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Everything feels a little delayed, but its not too noticable, just slightly. There are no stutters or something. I'm out of ideas
14:42 <+ChillerDragon> do you have a link to the code?
14:42 <+ChillerDragon> :troll:
14:44 < bridge> <fokkonaut> not the troll you wanted
14:44 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083747331284942908/image.png
14:45 <+ChillerDragon> @Ryozuki did you know that weechat has a headless mode? its more light weight than the curses bloat ui
14:45 <+ChillerDragon> :trollface:
14:45 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1678455924.png
14:45 <+ChillerDragon> and here i thought headless means no gui but apparently headless means no ui
14:47 < bridge> <fokkonaut> I believe that DDNet's multi message sending could help it, but it's probably not the only cause
14:47 <+ChillerDragon> whats multi message sending
14:47 < bridge> <fokkonaut> receiving, i mean i think
14:47 < bridge> <fokkonaut> didnt look at it for a long time
14:47 <+ChillerDragon> idk what that is
14:49 <+ChillerDragon> can we please adapt ddnet code style guide to have spaces before function parenthesis
14:49 <+ChillerDragon> look at this beauty 
14:49 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1678456130.png
14:49 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Would be cool if you wouldnt spam this channel, so that my message could be seen :)
14:49 <+ChillerDragon> mimimi
14:50 <+ChillerDragon> just resend it later
14:53 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Style gang
14:53 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Xd
14:55 < bridge> <Ryozuki> no it ensures freedom
14:55 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you have to share the source code when you share the app itself
14:55 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I feel less free xd
14:56 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Before I share it? Xd
14:56 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Then read the rest
14:56 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Before sharing the app i man
14:56 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Mean
14:56 < bridge> <Ryozuki> if u fork a gpl software and use it only urself without ever sharing it with anyone
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i dont think u have to share the code
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> iirc
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> the point of gpl is to ensure the 4 freedoms
14:57 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> But if I choose 10 families and move to the other side of the universe
14:57 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> What now?
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > 
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > 
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >         The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
14:57 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >         The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
14:58 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >         The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
14:58 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >         The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
14:58 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Now my awesome freedom is lost xd
14:58 < bridge> <Ryozuki> ???
14:58 <+ChillerDragon> i guess there are two parties and the freedom of one is the obligation of the other
14:58 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I die before I could even share the cose
14:58 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Code
14:58 <+ChillerDragon> my freedom to read your code is forcing you to share it
14:59 < bridge> <Ryozuki> @Jupeyy_Keks ur MIT license allows companies like nvidia to fork LLVM and make a state of the art propietary compiler that wont ever be uncovered
14:59 < bridge> <Ryozuki> any progress or secrets
14:59 < bridge> <Ryozuki> and they dont give  back to llvm
14:59 < bridge> <Ryozuki> gpl ensures maximum progress and freedom
14:59 < bridge> <ReiTW> :Black:
14:59 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> What makes u think they would have used it then
14:59 < bridge> <Ryozuki> llvm and gcc are big
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> trust me gcc being gpl made lots of companies adhere to gpl
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> instead of not using it
15:00 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Llvm is big BCS of their mit license
15:00 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Else Google would have never supported it probably
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >  Proprietary software development does not contribute to our community, but its developers often want handouts from us. Free software users can offer free software developers strokes for the ego—recognition and gratitude—but it can be very tempting when a business tells you, “Just let us put your package in our proprietary program, and your program will be used by many thousands of people!” The temptation can be powerful, but in the long 
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > 
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > The temptation and pressure are harder to recognize when they come indirectly, through free software organizations that have adopted a policy of catering to proprietary software. The X Consortium (and its successor, the Open Group) offers an example: funded by companies that made proprietary software, they strived for a decade to persuade programmers not to use copyleft. When the Open Group tried to make X11R6.4 nonfree software, those of us who 
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > 
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > In September 1998, several months after X11R6.4 was released with nonfree distribution terms, the Open Group reversed its decision and rereleased it under the same noncopyleft free software license that was used for X11R6.3. Thank you, Open Group—but this subsequent reversal does not invalidate the conclusions we draw from the fact that adding the restrictions was possible.
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > 
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > Pragmatically speaking, thinking about greater long-term goals will strengthen your will to resist this pressure. If you focus your mind on the freedom and community that you can build by staying firm, you will find the strength to do it. “Stand for something, or you will fall for anything.”
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > 
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > And if cynics ridicule freedom, ridicule community…if “hard-nosed realists” say that profit is the only ideal…just ignore them, and use copyleft all the same.
15:00 < bridge> <Ryozuki> no
15:00 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I d assume that's the reason llvm exists
15:01 < bridge> <Ryozuki> gcc is bigger and usually faster code
15:01 < bridge> <Ryozuki> the generated one xd
15:01 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Often yes. On Linux
15:01 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> In Android not
15:01 < bridge> <Ryozuki> its sad u choose mit
15:01 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Rust also chooses mit
15:01 < bridge> <Ryozuki> > And if cynics ridicule freedom, ridicule community…if “hard-nosed realists” say that profit is the only ideal…just ignore them, and use copyleft all the same.
15:01 < bridge> <Ryozuki> ill stay by this
15:02 < bridge> <Ryozuki> yeah sadly
15:02 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> I dislike copyright at all so ofc I also dislike mit
15:02 < bridge> <ReiTW> U are not stallman compliant
15:02 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> Just a tiny bit less
15:02 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you can see as GPL "if you cant win against them, join them" as in using their own copyright system to ensure a truly open software
15:02 < bridge> <Ryozuki> you can see GPL as  "if you cant win against them, join them" as in using their own copyright system to ensure a truly open software
15:03 < bridge> <Ryozuki> this line explains it
15:03 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >  I figure that since proprietary software developers use copyright to stop us from sharing, we cooperators can use copyright to give other cooperators an advantage of their own: they can use our code.
15:03 < bridge> <Ryozuki> >  make my code available for use in free software, and not for use in proprietary software, in order to encourage other people who write software to make it free as well.
15:04 < bridge> <Ryozuki> anyway its a idealistic goal
15:04 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but better than bootlicking a company
15:04 < bridge> <Ryozuki> kek
15:04 < bridge> <Ryozuki> most ppl i know only refuse to use gpl on the ifs: "if my software someday becomes famous and widely used, i will probs get money from companies!"
15:04 < bridge> <Ryozuki> the wild dream
15:05 < bridge> <Ryozuki> @Jupeyy_Keks i also agree copyright should not exist
15:05 < bridge> <Ryozuki> and patents either
15:06 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but u cant eliminate copyright, u have to use it for ur own advantage, in this case, use copyright to "remove" copyright if u will
16:28 < bridge> <heinrich5991> I don't know how this is calculated. the best way to go forward would probably be to find out how that prediction time is calculated, and then check why the inputs of the calculation are different for f-ddrace than normal ddnet
16:32 < bridge> <fokkonaut> bisecting rn
17:10 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Got my problem so far down, that I know its caused by my multi-socket, to provide 0.7 with 2 serverinfos so they can find all players.
17:10 < bridge> <fokkonaut> I have added the `IPTOS_LOWDELAY` to the sockets, but it still isnt better.
17:10 < bridge> <fokkonaut> In BW code, I can see, that they have multiple sockets aswell, and the only main difference I can see is, that I try to listen on both sockets, while they only listen on the main socket (I dont understand why tho). They use MMSGS, while I dont
17:10 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083783929443664033/image.png
17:10 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083783948909432983/image.png
17:10 < bridge> <fokkonaut> They never use the Socket which is passed. I dont get it, but anyways, mine looks like this:
17:10 <+ChillerDragon> yo jopster send netcup brain
17:11 <+ChillerDragon> i accidentally bought a server and dont know how to pay it :D
17:11 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083784148679925790/image.png
17:11 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083784148931596358/image.png
17:11 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083784148679925790/image.png
17:11 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083784215486795957/image.png
17:14 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Or is all data coming through the mmsgs?
17:19 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Any ideas how I can speed up the two sockets? I'm sadly not a networking pro :D
17:23 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/11nrpkt/compiling_rust_code_on_a_pentium_2_at_233mhz/
17:23 < bridge> <Ryozuki> holy
17:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Simply not opening the socket works, but I kinda need it, or it would be not so nice to just drop it.
17:29 < bridge> <Ryozuki> idk much either but maybe polling it from another thread? xd
17:29 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but that opens lot of issues with syncing
17:30 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i havent check netcode since long
17:30 < bridge> <fokkonaut> + bw does it different too, somehow
17:30 < bridge> <fokkonaut> @ReiTW u have any idea?
17:30 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i havent checked netcode since long
17:33 < bridge> <ReiTW> I think noby did implement recvmmsg
17:34 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/recvmmsg.2.html
17:35 < bridge> <fokkonaut> but anyways, i just open a second socket like in bw
17:36 < bridge> <fokkonaut> its been like this for over a year, just checked bw code now and i see no big diff
17:36 < bridge> <fokkonaut> even tho it seems to work fine there
17:37 < bridge> <ReiTW> what are you trying to reach
17:37 < bridge> <ReiTW> also
17:37 < bridge> <ReiTW> consider that IPTOS doesn't work anymore
17:38 < bridge> <fokkonaut> ah
17:38 < bridge> <ReiTW> TOS field in IP header isn't the same as before
17:38 < bridge> <ReiTW> now it is called DiffServ
17:38 < bridge> <ReiTW> and it works differently, nobody can abuse of it anymore
17:39 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://rsms.me/inter/
17:39 < bridge> <Ryozuki> a open source font that looks nice
17:39 < bridge> <Voxel> I love that font
17:39 < bridge> <ReiTW> tbh it looks like alot of fonts lmao
17:39 < bridge> <Ryozuki> but lot of fonts are commercially licensed
17:40 < bridge> <ReiTW> true
17:40 < bridge> <Ryozuki> and they charge on page views apparently
17:40 < bridge> <Ryozuki> hilarious
17:40 < bridge> <Ryozuki> read this https://manuelmoreale.com/a-rant-on-web-font-licenses
17:41 < bridge> <Ryozuki> is this a change on the kernel? or what u talking about
17:41 < bridge> <Ryozuki> note that i have 0 knowledge  on what u talking about xd
17:43 < bridge> <ReiTW> well there's some kind of backward compat with TOS but before people could abuse of TOS
17:43 < bridge> <ReiTW> (QoS)
17:44 < bridge> <Ryozuki> oh i see after googling
17:44 < bridge> <ReiTW> it just uses the same field
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> did you know that if a word used by many (atleast in NA) becomes so common in use, and that word is the name of a company, they lose the trademark on it?
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> google could lose it
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> one example of this is "aspirin"
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> curious
17:45 < bridge> <ReiTW> lol wut
17:45 < bridge> <ReiTW> ah I see
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> if googling becomes such a widespread word
17:45 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xD
17:45 < bridge> <ReiTW> kleenex also
17:45 < bridge> <ReiTW> for example
17:46 < bridge> <ReiTW> people uses it as a word
17:46 < bridge> <Voxel> febreeze
17:46 < bridge> <ReiTW> yes lmao
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> ye kleenex
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> idk about febreeze
17:46 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
17:48 < bridge> <ReiTW> need to learn k3s
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
17:48 < bridge> <Robyt3> IIRC that's the reason that Nintendo did some campaign to ensure people don't use the name Nintendo to refer to any game console
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> im 2 lazy to learn cloud stuff
17:48 < bridge> <Ryozuki> didnt know lol
17:49 < bridge> <ReiTW> @Ryozuki then surprisingly I'll learn https://cilium.io/
17:49 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
17:49 < bridge> <Ryozuki> they love buzzwords
17:49 < bridge> <Robyt3> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083793778768355338/583pp5xbvy7y.jpg
17:49 < bridge> <Ryozuki> "api aware networking"
17:49 < bridge> <Ryozuki> lmao
17:50 < bridge> <ReiTW> who respected that
17:50 < bridge> <Robyt3> Certainly not everyone's mother xD
17:50 <+ChillerDragon> fyi @heinrich5991 ddnet does not build with the rust recommended in the readme on debian 10
17:51 < bridge> <ReiTW> what does it output :giga_chad:
17:51 <+ChillerDragon> which is not super criticial but just a fyi
17:51 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/src/base/system.cpp#L1766
17:52 < bridge> <Ryozuki> @deen u like lisp right?
17:52 < bridge> <Ryozuki> https://www.eriksvedang.com/carp
17:52 < bridge> <Ryozuki> i need to learn lisp someday
17:52 < bridge> <Ryozuki> they always say its special
17:53 < bridge> <Alexander> i think i saw the same thing for photoshop
17:53 < bridge> <Alexander> something like dont use the term photoshopped and photoshop, instead say Adobe Photoshop
17:55 < bridge> <Alexander> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083795300675747840/image.png
17:55 < bridge> <Alexander> https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
17:55 < bridge> <Alexander> <https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html>
17:56 < bridge> <Mr.Gh0s7> I'll gimp this image to my liking so I can say that I phoshopped it :gigachad:
17:57 < bridge> <Alexander> you mean you used GNU Image Manipulation Program to edit that image?
17:58 < bridge> <Voxel> "dont say you photostopped something 🤓🤓🤓🤓"
17:58 < bridge> <Mr.Gh0s7> I GNUed Imaged Manipulated Programmed that image?
17:58 < bridge> <Voxel> i gimped the image
17:58 < bridge> <Voxel> ok that sounds wronh
17:58 < bridge> <Voxel> ok that sounds wrong
17:59 < bridge> <Alexander> i MS Painted the image
17:59 < bridge> <Voxel> i clip studio painted the image
18:00 < bridge> <Voxel> anyways i wish i knew how to code so that i could topple adobe over with free and open source software
18:01 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> are there any Turkish people
18:01 < bridge> <Voxel> what
18:02 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> I'm looking for a turk who plays this game
18:02 < bridge> <Voxel> to play with? or to solve an issue with?
18:03 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> Play
18:03 < bridge> <Voxel> join a turkish server if there are any
18:03 <+ChillerDragon> kraaaaal
18:04 < bridge> <DefaultO> whatever code you merged into the todays update
18:04 < bridge> <DefaultO> breaks my mouse movement
18:04 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> Bot kral
18:04 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> there is
18:05 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> You write the translation in Turkish and send it, I send it in English.
18:06 < bridge> <OXOnotVENOM> Server Maui Woeie
18:06 < bridge> <Voxel> Good luck in your race!
18:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> @heinrich5991 I have applied https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/471bb441a14af9502558cfc7203de96f72547e87
18:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> Should I use a double pointer here?
18:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1083800742881677474/image.png
18:17 < bridge> <fokkonaut> ah yea no
18:20 < bridge> <fokkonaut> just nullptr it
18:22 < bridge> <fokkonaut> wow, implementing mmsgs actually did the trick
18:22 < bridge> <fokkonaut> pog
18:22 < bridge> <fokkonaut> heinrich big pro <3
18:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> OH FUCK
18:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> wait
18:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> SADGE
18:23 < bridge> <fokkonaut> it didnt do the trick
18:24 < bridge> <ReiTW> do u understand how mmsg works
18:24 < bridge> <fokkonaut> i think
18:30 < bridge> <DefaultO> like wtf is this shit since the last update (todays):
18:30 < bridge> <DefaultO> https://youtu.be/leVu1rO1u2s?t=61
18:30 < bridge> <DefaultO> like wtf is this shit since the last update (today):
18:30 < bridge> <DefaultO> https://youtu.be/leVu1rO1u2s?t=61
18:31 < bridge> <DefaultO> I can't move my mouse properly anymore. Outside the game, as usual.
18:32 < bridge> <Learath2> This function can't exist anymore with this signature, to invalidate a socket you need to take a `NETSOCKET **`
18:32 < bridge> <fokkonaut> yea
18:33 < bridge> <Learath2> This is one of the things that annoys me to no end. The old system.c is littered with half functioning things we broke and never reworked over the years
18:33 < bridge> <Ryozuki> yeah C also annoys me
18:33 < bridge> <Ryozuki> welcome to the club
18:33 < bridge> <Ryozuki> :trollouis:
18:34 < bridge> <Learath2> How dare you bend my words like this?
18:34 < bridge> <Ryozuki> im a politician in the makings
18:41 < bridge> <DefaultO> fixed it
18:42 < bridge> <Voxel> xd
18:42 < bridge> <Ryozuki> xd
18:46 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> what caused it
18:46 < bridge> <DefaultO> not sure
18:46 < bridge> <DefaultO> changed render engine, changed power mode, changed 120hz to 144hz, etc.
18:46 < bridge> <Jupstar ✪> https://tenor.com/view/error-windows-windows-error-message-windows-application-error-gif-17157659
19:46 < bridge> <Chairn> was probably a good solution when it was made
20:47 < bridge> <heinrich5991> permalink (press 'y' on github): https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/658dcb5ae1fc0ec210930e782aee211e2a1df4cc/src/base/system.cpp#L1766
20:48 < bridge> <heinrich5991> do you mean `system.cpp`?
21:02 < bridge> <Learath2> Well it's mostly just a rename from the system.c which was already broken before the rename, but yes