03:23 < bridge> https://www.brilliantmonocle.com/ 03:23 < bridge> :Ray: 05:37 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073462683287949342/images_8_2.jpg 09:20 < bridge> Hacker monocle xd 09:24 < bridge> I mean it's a better design than what https://youtube.com/@ZackFreedman provided the community with. And has more functionality than just being a teleprompter. I'll definetly get one as soon as I can. 10:23 < bridge> but I don't see the server in the general list... 10:23 < bridge> although yesterday registration was normal 10:23 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073534574967128115/image.png 10:23 < bridge> but I don't see the server in the general list... 10:23 < bridge> although yesterday registration was normal 10:23 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073534682400030750/image.png 10:29 < bridge> hmm, many players can't connect to russian ddnet servers 10:30 < bridge> cloudflare cant connect to russian web server too 10:30 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073536475628584980/image.png 10:32 < bridge> cloudflare cant connect to russian web server too (same host as ddnet, myarena) 10:32 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073536475628584980/image.png 10:36 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073538022739558470/horrifyingly-cringeworthy-puns-311.png 10:45 < bridge> oh, that explains the lowe number of players 10:45 < bridge> I'd open a ticket with the hoster but can't reach their website either 😄 10:47 < bridge> myarena under 1tb ddos 😦 10:47 < bridge> yesterday 10:47 < bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1073540814287945768/image.png 10:48 < bridge> > Dear clients, we are witnessing very large attacks, more than 1 Terabit. It is difficult to cope with attacks of such power even for those who charge six or even seven figures for protection. As you know, our protection is free. We do network filtering on our own, using programs that we have developed ourselves, and we pay for channels from what we earn. The cost of channels is huge, and for a small host like us, protection against such attacks i 10:48 < bridge> > Thanks for understanding. 13:04 <+ChillerDragon> @heinrich5991 @Learath2 is this conceptually going in the right direction? https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5949 13:07 <+ChillerDragon> yo @Patiga any chance you are motivated to add 0.7 map format support to ddnet? :) 13:24 < bridge> I already started this in #5737, but I haven gotten around to finishing it (bezier support is missing) 13:24 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5737 13:35 < bridge> pls allow 0.7 to die 🥺 13:36 <+ChillerDragon> ah amazing thanks @Robyt3 13:44 < bridge> Hello! 13:44 < bridge> Why when i build DDNet Client on linux its only working for me ? 13:44 < bridge> Others ppl couldn't use it and they got error , is there any static command for building client in linux? 13:47 < bridge> If the glibc dep is too high u cannot do it 13:47 < bridge> Similar for other deps, tho they can be work around by using bundled libs 13:48 < bridge> Why wouldn't the other person simply compile it 13:56 < bridge> ChillerDragon: yes, going into the right direction 13:56 < bridge> maybe you could also move the net message translation into a new file? 13:56 < bridge> `SendInfo7` is superfluous, just do it in the net message translation, I'd say 13:56 < bridge> Thought so to but wanted to stay consistent with how it’s done Server side 13:56 < bridge> (@heinrich5991) 13:57 < bridge> I don't like the server version, it pollutes the file. let's ask @Learath2 on his opinion maybe 13:57 < bridge> Yea sounds nice 13:57 < bridge> (@heinrich5991) 13:57 < bridge> and the src/game/version.h constants can probably also go directly into the translation, don't need the constants, I think 13:58 < bridge> I don't like the server version either 13:59 < bridge> Problem I had with info was that it had to work with caching properly. So it wasnt very easy to achieve 13:59 < bridge> ah. that problem doesn't exist on the client side, so we should be good there 14:00 < bridge> Do u really plan to merge this? 14:00 < bridge> I think it should be fine if it's clearly separated 14:01 < bridge> so yes, I thought that this would be nice to have in a finished form 14:01 < bridge> It adds more dependencies. We should go away from old dependencies 14:01 < bridge> Have u never thought about that your decisions are bad for the projects future? 14:02 < bridge> I'm not sure what you mean by dependencies here, do you mean more code? 14:03 < bridge> If we support 0.7 ppl will use this 14:03 < bridge> If we don't do it. They don't 14:04 < bridge> sentences with "never" are usually false. yes, I do try to reflect on decisions and want to see whether they're good or bad 14:05 < bridge> I hope u are aware that most decisions about the project were BCS of u 14:05 < bridge> yes, people will probably use it. you'd probably be annoyed by bug reports etc. coming from 0.7? I see, I understand, I think 14:05 < bridge> But u aren't the only person that likes ddnet 14:06 < bridge> im against adding 0.7 stuff 14:06 < bridge> if we vote on this 14:06 < bridge> you probably mean 0.7 compatibility? or also stuff like 0.7 skin support? 14:06 < bridge> 0.7 compat 14:06 < bridge> we could add our own skin protocol 14:07 < bridge> i would remove the sixup thing too 14:07 < bridge> We generally have 20 versions of this game 14:07 < bridge> What is our goal with this 14:07 < bridge> a mess 14:07 < bridge> tw is dead 14:07 < bridge> i am for ddnet 2.0 with a protocol removing hacks 14:07 < bridge> hacky code i mean 14:08 < bridge> and ofc, as future proof as possible 14:08 < bridge> with consideration for mods 14:08 < bridge> do you consider cleanly isolated compat code bad? 14:08 < bridge> unlike the long standing position of tw devs against mods 14:08 < bridge> it can exist in a fork 14:08 < bridge> no need to be here 14:08 < bridge> it adds noise 14:09 < bridge> even if it's cleanly isolated? 14:09 < bridge> to me yes 14:09 < bridge> i.e. not the stuff we have right now where game logic is intertwined with checking whether the client is at least version 15.3.3 14:09 < bridge> Then make it a proxy 14:09 < bridge> 0.7 in itself is a useless thing to do 14:09 < bridge> if chiller wants to put effort into it and have his fork sure he does he 14:10 < bridge> but why the ddnet project needs that? 14:10 < bridge> what we need a rework 14:10 < bridge> is* 14:10 < bridge> This 14:10 < bridge> because we generally welcome contributions 14:10 < bridge> rewrites are hard 14:10 < bridge> but this is not something that gives a tangible benefit in my opinion 14:10 < bridge> it'd probably give me the benefit that I could play vanilla 14:10 < bridge> rewrites are hard ok, but we dont need 0.7 compatiblity 14:11 < bridge> which I enjoyed 14:11 < bridge> u can play vanilla 14:11 < bridge> use the 0.7 client 14:11 < bridge> or ddnet and play 0.6 14:11 < bridge> yes; that's the barrier to entry 14:11 < bridge> the truth is vanilla is dead 14:11 < bridge> and its not cuz ddnet 14:11 < bridge> I can't just decide to join a round of vanilla right now, there are no servers with players 14:11 < bridge> I did not say anything like that 14:11 < bridge> I agree that 0.7 is mostly dead 14:11 < bridge> but it seems to be the only place where I can play a round of vanilla 14:12 < bridge> As if 0.7 vanilla is so much greater experience xddd 14:12 < bridge> xd 14:12 < bridge> 0.6 has vanilla too 14:12 < bridge> but no players 14:12 < bridge> I need other players for vanilla 14:12 < bridge> like 0.7 14:12 < bridge> at least months back, I could play a round of vanilla in 0.7 14:12 < bridge> Well then go to#general and ask 14:12 < bridge> without asking friends 14:12 < bridge> if u want players for vanilla instead of addinng code bloat, u should make tournaments or stuff 14:13 < bridge> why does ddnet need to take care of vanilla stuff? 14:13 < bridge> it makes no sense 14:13 < bridge> ddnet is a ddnet client 14:13 < bridge> ddnet doesn't have to, obviously 14:13 < bridge> it's ChillerDragon who wants to invest time in it 14:13 < bridge> yeah thats fine, in his fork 14:13 < bridge> I probably wouldn't implemnet it, I have other interests 14:14 < bridge> why is it important that it's a fork, here? 14:14 < bridge> cuz its not on the ddnet repo, where ddnet code is 14:14 < bridge> It defs makes a rewrite harder 14:14 < bridge> its how free software works 14:14 < bridge> BCS it relies on our current code 14:14 < bridge> if his fork is better 14:14 < bridge> it will gain more users 14:14 < bridge> no 14:14 < bridge> we have steam, repos, etc. 14:15 < bridge> it needs to be more than just better 14:15 < bridge> not rly 14:15 < bridge> the website 14:15 < bridge> yes 14:15 < bridge> If we remove lot of stuff. Rewriting gets more realistic 14:15 < bridge> no 14:15 < bridge> I think you're being unrealistic 14:15 < bridge> we saw that in the past with ffmpeg e.g. 14:15 < bridge> ffmpeg had to be REALLY bad for a while 14:15 < bridge> before distros added the fork 14:15 < bridge> also ddnet/vanilla 14:15 < bridge> only because vanilla was dead for soo long, people started including ddnet in the repos 14:16 < bridge> vanilla died for a reason 14:16 < bridge> ddnet is more entertaining 14:16 < bridge> I'm saying ddnet had to be more than just better 14:16 < bridge> teeworlds had everything u say 14:16 < bridge> website 14:16 < bridge> steam 14:16 < bridge> reach 14:16 < bridge> yes 14:16 < bridge> it was in all linux repos 14:16 < bridge> So if his fork gets attention we can still add it 14:16 < bridge> and ddnet yet is here 14:16 < bridge> and ddnet didn't have to be just better 14:16 < bridge> it had to be a lot better 14:16 < bridge> which it was 14:16 < bridge> but it's not just "being better". it's being overwhelmingly better 14:16 < bridge> ddnet didnt start with a lot better 14:17 < bridge> yet it quickly gained players 14:17 < bridge> its simply that the gamemode is more interesting and unique 14:17 < bridge> pvp gets stale fast 14:17 < bridge> and noobs have a harder time 14:17 < bridge> winners write history books I guess 14:17 < bridge> cuz they are matched against 10y old pros 14:17 < bridge> thats a problem with many games 14:17 < bridge> but coop games dont have that problem 14:17 < bridge> need to do stuff irl 14:18 < bridge> anyway, if we vote, which i doubt will be the case given previous iterations, im still against it 14:20 < bridge> Whatever makes 0.7 vanilla mod more attractive we can still add to the client 14:20 < bridge> But ddnet has such a big player base, yet nobody cares 14:21 < bridge> @Shiriusu 14:58 <+ChillerDragon> if 0.6 code is removed the rewrite shouldnt be harder 14:58 <+ChillerDragon> and the thing that makes vanilla 0.7 more attractive is that it is the only version you can play with the official client 14:59 <+ChillerDragon> > unlike the long standing position of tw devs against mods 15:00 <+ChillerDragon> as of right now vanilla is more mod friendly than ddnet 15:00 < bridge> you dont understand heinrich 15:00 < bridge> he'd never drop 0.6 support 15:00 <+ChillerDragon> we dropped 0.5 didnt we? 15:00 < bridge> else this would be a completly different situation 15:00 < bridge> i guess that was still vanilla tw's archivement 15:00 <+ChillerDragon> @heinrich5991 jopsters assumtion right that 0.6 will not be dropped? 15:01 <+ChillerDragon> is* 15:01 < bridge> if we'd drop 0.6, we could also make a complete rewrite xD 15:01 < bridge> isnt that obvious 15:01 <+ChillerDragon> yea sure but i personally have no problem with the protocol if you do you can do a rewrite 15:01 <+ChillerDragon> i only have a problem with missing vanilla compability 15:02 < bridge> but just for the record, u are aware that 0.7 is dead 15:02 < bridge> vanilla 15:03 < bridge> and even if oy gets active tw has no real future 15:03 < bridge> bcs egomant 15:25 <+ChillerDragon> 0.7 vanilla seems as alive to me as i know it from 0.6 15:26 <+ChillerDragon> someone to play with on ctf5 most of the time 15:26 <+ChillerDragon> not sure about pro games since i quit vanilla they might be dead 15:38 < bridge> jupstar* btw 15:38 < bridge> I don't think we'll ever base the ddnet protocol on top of the tw 0.7 network protocol 15:38 < bridge> there seems to be no point in it 15:39 < bridge> dropping 0.6 at some point is probably okay, there are probably no players there anymore 15:41 < bridge> jupjopjapster ✪ gechillter drache 15:46 <+ChillerDragon> axax 15:52 < bridge> > ChillerDragon: as of right now vanilla is more mod friendly than ddnet 15:52 < bridge> How so? Didn't the 0.7 protocol broke all mods, moved the vanilla game mode code to the base classes, disable features wanted for mods e.g. Sv_GlobalSound (and oh `oy` enabled `Sv_SkinChange` in 0.7.3. 15:52 < bridge> 15:52 < bridge> Port a mod to 0.7 means the loose of all players because there is no smooth transition. Otherwise the only option is DDNet codebase. 15:54 < bridge> Forgot to mention: reasonable maintainers. Teeworlds (0.7 and as the upstream) is dead also due to that point being missed. 15:54 < bridge> for vanilla exist 0.6<->0.7 server by TsFreddie, its enough 15:54 < bridge> pls allow 07 to die 15:54 < bridge> give us mod api for 0.6 😔 16:05 < bridge> > give us mod api for 0.6 16:05 < bridge> This! But it means more maintenance load for DDNet. 16:05 < bridge> 16:05 < bridge> I'd love to see a shared codebase with DDNet being one of the game modes implemented ontop. Yet it is hard to expect because for DDNet it means a lot of dev resources wasted for too small effect. 'Better abstractions and clear architecture' is a silly reason for such a big effort. 16:05 < bridge> 16:05 < bridge> Deen mentioned (https://discord.com/channels/252358080522747904/293493549758939136/1048251667432353843) ddnet-skeleton https://github.com/teeframe/ddnet-skeleton but it starts with disable of ASan, UBSan, and Valgrind's Memcheck tests 👀 . Looking at the commits, a huge drop in the quality I expect. `:yoda:` 16:08 <+ChillerDragon> @Kaffeine > How so? 16:08 <+ChillerDragon> the way i said it 16:08 <+ChillerDragon> im not saying the 0.7 protocol is more mod friendly than 0.6 16:08 < bridge> > ChillerDragon: as of right now vanilla is more mod friendly than ddnet 16:08 < bridge> How so? Didn't the 0.7 protocol broke all mods, moved the vanilla game mode code to the base classes, disable features wanted for mods e.g. Sv_GlobalSound (and oh `oy` enabled `Sv_SkinChange` in 0.7.3. 16:08 < bridge> 16:08 < bridge> Port a mod to 0.7 means the loss of all players because there is no smooth transition. Otherwise the only option is DDNet codebase. 16:08 <+ChillerDragon> im saying the vanilla code base has a gamecontroller server side and ddnet code base blocks the gamecontroller with the ddrace controller 16:09 <+ChillerDragon> vanilla even added stuff for race in its code base 16:09 <+ChillerDragon> ddnet made no efforts to my knowledge to be a moddable codebase 16:26 < bridge> > made no effort to be a moddable codebase 16:26 < bridge> The benefit for that is super low. However DDNet accepts such PRs and the maintainers spend their time reviewing such changes. E.g.: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/3502/files#diff-cd203dd9ecb0f067300e80e7357a5fb6e3b52982a9bde783f1cdbd53fe8151bd 16:26 < bridge> 16:26 < bridge> This seems to be much better than how the `teeworlds` ~~upstream~~ treat the mods. 16:26 < bridge> Do I really have to say you that DDNet has explicit support for other mods? 16:26 < bridge> E.g. code: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/src/game/client/gameclient.cpp#L1005 16:26 < bridge> E.g. resources: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/tree/master/data/editor/entities_clear 16:30 < bridge> The protocol extension with UUIDs is super neat: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/615 16:30 < bridge> It is extremely helpful for mods. I base Infclass client on that and it won't be possible on 0.7. 16:46 < bridge> fwiw I was only for 0.7 compatibility because it seemed teeworlds was again alive for a while there 16:48 < bridge> I did a couple iterations on this but honestly everytime I start isolating gameplay related code I just get this unbelievable urge to just rewrite everything 16:53 < bridge> @heinrich5991 What do you think about my suggestion to use `sizeof(int32_t)` in #6328? Would that make it acceptable to you? Or should I just drop that commit? 16:53 < bridge> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/6328 16:54 < bridge> If you'd ever try to do it again, please mention or PM me, I'll find time to help. Or maybe I'll also try to do some steps in this direction eventually but I've no idea when it happen. 16:55 < bridge> Robyt3 is singlehandledly carrying ddnet code rn 16:55 < bridge> :gigachad: 16:55 < bridge> i want to do stuff but the stuff i always find to do has a too much big of a scope 16:55 < bridge> i need to have the skill to find small refactors like robyt 16:56 < bridge> i wanted to add a secure channel between server and client using pubkey, i got the exchange, but then i went deep into the protocol layer to add encryption as if it was invisible to the higher level code 16:56 < bridge> and i just stopped 16:56 < bridge> cuz too much work 16:57 < bridge> I remember two massive issues, 1 is `IGameController` it's misnamed, it's not an Interface :D, 2nd was `CGameController`s and `IGameController` leaking into `CGameContext` 16:59 < bridge> I'm not the one to review PRs in this project but I still look at them time to time. 16:59 < bridge> Personally I find `sizeof(int32_t)` to be the most readable option 👍 . On one hand you removed the hardcode and the new code indeed makes it clear that there are ints instead of four chars or two shorts. On the other hand Heinrich5991 point in possible variations of the `int` size makes sense and (with int32_t) you're addressing it in the most reasonable way. 17:04 < bridge> Yeah, it is super important to stop at the right scope (which might be big enough because we have big issues and yet it should be doable and not overwhelming). 17:06 < bridge> The name itself is not a big technical issue or significant tech debt. 17:06 < bridge> I see the two issues in: 17:07 < bridge> 1. Network/protocol-specific stuff spread through the codebase (I'd rather have another layer for that) 17:07 < bridge> 2. 17:07 < bridge> The name itself is not a big technical issue or significant tech debt. 17:07 < bridge> I see the two issues in: 17:07 < bridge> 1. Network/protocol-specific stuff spread through the codebase (I'd rather have another layer for that) 17:08 < bridge> 2. Game mode stuff spread through the codebase (not encapsulated into ModGameController; and hey, it does not seem to be doable reasonably). In another mod I've also subclassed CPlayer and CCharacter, and still had to keep some mod-specific code in CGameContext. 17:10 < bridge> What might be doable step-by-step? 17:10 < bridge> To move more stuff into the GameController we need a way to e.g. register console commands there. 17:12 < bridge> Name isn't an issue, but the way it's treated as sort of an interface sort of a class is 18:13 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> yeah server needs full refactor 18:13 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> tried to do this like 4 times xd 18:13 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> never happened 18:16 < bridge> I have this urge to just do it all over in rust 18:17 <+ChillerDragon> lerato rust fan 18:18 < bridge> :pepeH: 18:20 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> libtw2 moment 18:21 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> also rust server is pretty good xd 18:21 < bridge> <<~{Barsik}~>> was able to run mazes on it 18:23 < bridge> i hope thats true 18:24 < bridge> learath is too depressed, but would be cool xd 18:24 < bridge> aye, I barely have motivation to wake up 18:24 < bridge> hope always dies last 18:29 <+ChillerDragon> oof lerato sad 18:29 <+ChillerDragon> ._. 19:09 < bridge> <судный день.> we need ddnet on asm 19:10 < bridge> compile ddnet, then u have ddnet on asm 19:29 <+ChillerDragon> asmr ddnet 19:30 < bridge> maybe they mean roller coaster tycoon asm level