02:04 <+bridge> is there a difference in the up between a veto vote and a yes/no vote? 02:04 <+bridge> is there a difference in the ui look between a veto vote and a yes/no vote? 02:17 <+bridge> if a veto voter hasn't voted, the green bar flows over the middle section to the right where normally it would've already passed the vote 02:20 <+bridge> but i guess that only tells you that atleast 1 veto voter hasnt voted, i believe no indication otherwise (veto no = instant vote fail, veto yes = same as others) 02:29 <+bridge> no i mean- 02:29 <+bridge> if its a veto vote why is there still a little tick in the middle 02:29 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1062906051512520734/image.png 02:56 <+bridge> Bots 04:17 <+bridge> go for it 04:17 <+bridge> disclaimer: i had to make it in 20min when i was really high and they needed it for a bw tournament 04:18 <+bridge> but ill send you the executable if you want @Ryozuki 10:20 <+bridge> Sure 11:05 <+bridge> @Jupeyy_Keks Do you know if some Vulkan changes caused IME problems in fullscreen? https://steamcommunity.com/app/412220/eventcomments/3757724418287109034/?tscn=1673492497 11:07 <+bridge> On windows it never worked in Fullscreen 11:08 <+bridge> He should just use windowed Fullscreen or tell Microsoft to finally fix this ridiculous limitation xd 11:10 <+bridge> In the past you had to advise to set vulkan to 1-2 guys a day, now you advising to set opengl to 4-5 guys a day, was it rly worth it? :monkalaugh: 11:10 <+bridge> Tbh I feel like it went pretty well actually 11:10 <+bridge> We had like 10 total reports? 11:10 <+bridge> I expected more 11:13 <+bridge> Btw is it possible to set default renderer depending on os? I feel like opengl runs better on windows and vulkan on linux 11:13 <+bridge> :monkalaugh: 11:13 <+bridge> :justatest: 11:13 <+bridge> How so? Opengl has 1trillion problems on windows 11:13 <+bridge> Or do u mean performance wise 11:14 <+bridge> But even there many ppl said they have far better frame times under windows 11:14 <+bridge> I used opengl for 3 years and didnt have any issues except white textures on 2k skins lol 11:15 <+bridge> What problem did u encounter with VK except Ur broken setup 11:17 <+bridge> Let's look at others' problems as well, vulkan dont work with IME and fullscreen, it doesnt have that lazy loading thing that causes vram crashes 11:17 <+bridge> Ime also doesn't work with opengl 11:18 <+bridge> If vram is out vram is out. Just because the driver has a workaround didn't change the fact that it's used incorrectly 11:20 <+bridge> If we want to unload unused textures we need to change the higher level components. If u allocate 64gb ram and then wonder that the kernel struggles to swap the memory that also sounds like a workaround rather than a wanted feature 11:20 <+bridge> At least for games 11:23 <+bridge> Many people would prefer 'incorrect' use of memory and working game instead of unoptimised but correct memory use 11:24 <+bridge> I disagree strongly as developer tho. Nothing is more anoying than ppl complain about lags because of hidden features like this 11:24 <+bridge> Almost impossible to test 11:25 <+bridge> I agree that a crash sucks. But I'd prefer we actual fix these problems 11:25 <+bridge> Instead of hiding them 11:26 <+bridge> You are forcing people to use 'proper' vram management without fixing actual problems 11:27 <+bridge> And u want to hide actual problems instead of fixing actual problems:) 11:28 <+bridge> I appreciate fixing problems, but you prefer showing them first? 11:29 <+bridge> To me it's not clear that the open gl drivers to under the hood 11:29 <+bridge> So yes 11:29 <+bridge> It's not even clear if all drivers do that 11:30 <+bridge> And loading 100mb into vram can always create lags on hardware that is not designed for it 11:33 <+bridge> That's user issue, if you didn't fix excessive vram usage and forcing user to vulkan that definitely cant smooth this issue with memory, that's weird 11:34 <+bridge> And then he complains in #bugs 11:34 <+bridge> Anyway this is a endless spiral 11:34 <+bridge> There are pros and cons 11:35 <+bridge> Yeah 11:36 <+bridge> So when vram fixes are planned to release :troll: 11:42 <+bridge> For example fokko's multi layer entities, you added feature that doubles the vram usage to make one feature in one mod work, fokko have fclient, clients that make more comfortable experience for one single mod is usual thing 11:44 <+bridge> Yes I dislike that too 11:45 <+bridge> But if u don't use high resolution textures it should: tm: not be a problem 12:12 <+bridge> It's technically not only for fokkonaut's mod but it is also the correct way to do it 12:13 <+bridge> The only way you could avoid it would be to explicitly say that changing entities ingame isn't allowed 12:16 <+bridge> I wouldn't really expect much change to the behaviour on running out of vram. We have byt one gfxguy. Unless you convince him that it'd be worth dropping some performance for it it's not happening 12:17 <+bridge> s\/byt/but/ 12:28 <+bridge> I just like if stuff is predictable 12:29 <+bridge> Or do you suddenly like Ur browser using 2000tb ram without u understanding why 12:30 <+bridge> But I offer you to replace me with an ai that is better at testing and finding out random problems, then I can do holidays 12:54 <+bridge> ? 12:55 <+bridge> 1. what is multi layer entities? 12:55 <+bridge> 2. F-Client is not made for F-DDrace. It's just a normal 0.7 client with (for me) the most important DDNet client functions. 12:55 <+bridge> He means the ability to swap out entities on fly 12:55 <+bridge> Ah, but that works for all mods 12:56 <+bridge> But it's not really nice 12:56 <+bridge> On fly you mean while being ingame? 12:56 <+bridge> A mod should simply have a static size of supported tiles 12:56 <+bridge> While on server yes 12:57 <+bridge> I didnt follow the conversation, what is the issue? :D 12:57 <+bridge> Overlapping entities? 12:57 <+bridge> We can either rebuild the tile map or the entities texture and that costs performance or vram 12:58 <+bridge> ah 13:26 <+bridge> Let's just rebuild it? It's an edge case, performance being worse in an edge case isn't really that bad? 13:34 <+bridge> Yes I was in favor of that. But can't remember Heinrichs argument against it 13:34 <+bridge> Or if fokko required hot swap 13:34 <+bridge> Hm, can't we rebuild it on the run? 13:34 <+bridge> It will lag but I don't think that's an issue with how fokkonaut uses it 13:35 <+bridge> Then it's fine. I still can't remember what are the arguments against this tho. But yeah depending on map size it might take a bit 13:36 <+bridge> But even better would be to not needing a hack like this 13:36 <+bridge> I think the only sane reason to change entities whime ingame would be those minigame mods with many mods in one 13:36 <+bridge> Isn't there a better solution 13:36 <+bridge> Can't they use different layers 13:37 <+bridge> In that case changing the entities happens on a minigame change, so it shouldn't matter that there is a little loading lag 13:37 <+bridge> Anyway I have no time 13:37 <+bridge> I've been wanting to do this for decades. The game layer would be the vanilla layer and mods would have their own layers for their tiles, with uuids identifying them 13:38 <+bridge> for a decade* 13:39 <+bridge> Epic 13:40 <+bridge> One day 13:40 <+bridge> But damn we build per layer rn anyway 13:40 <+bridge> Sucks hard 13:41 <+bridge> game@layers.ddnet.tw, front@layers.ddnet.tw, tele@layers.ddnet.tw, switch@layers.ddnet.tw 13:41 <+bridge> Tune layer with it one tile xdddd 13:41 <+bridge> Worth it 13:41 <+bridge> email me at game@layers.ddnet.tw 14:39 <+bridge> I dont even use ingame entities change on my server? 14:39 <+bridge> @Learath2 @Jupeyy_Keks who said that 14:39 <+bridge> I provide one set of entities which will be used in F-DDrace 14:40 <+bridge> That's the reason I remember we did the layers 14:40 <+bridge> What layers exactly... Lol 14:40 <+bridge> ? 14:41 <+bridge> I don't remember exactly what it was we did, but we had to render the entities overlay twice for some reason 14:42 <+bridge> Never heard of that, and shouldnt be my cause :D 14:42 <+bridge> Wait until j* gets back he can tell you what it was 14:42 <+bridge> I dont do anything with entities nor do I swap them ingame 14:45 <+bridge> U wanted entity masking 14:45 <+bridge> BCS Ur mod required to show unsupported tiles 14:45 <+bridge> Ah, well yea I mean thats a thing that will be required for any mod 14:45 <+bridge> thats based on ddnet 14:45 <+bridge> And BCS our network code is slow and stupid we only know Ur mod onfly 14:45 <+bridge> Iirc 14:46 <+bridge> Well I don't want to play any kind of blame game. But we need a better solution 14:46 <+bridge> Oke xd 14:47 <+bridge> It sucks that we always carry around stupid vanilla problems around with us xd 14:47 <+bridge> how is this vanilla problem 14:47 <+bridge> It doesn't send a mod I'd first time u connect 14:47 <+bridge> Unsupported tiles? 14:47 <+bridge> We use Gameinfo or smth 14:47 <+bridge> ? 14:47 <+bridge> They are after the map is loaded 14:48 <+bridge> Ddnet client invalidates tiles that are not being used, these that cant be placed from editor with UNUSED button off 14:48 <+bridge> And therefore it didnt show any custom entities, iirc 14:48 <+bridge> E.g. if u join fng it shows ddrace tiles for short Moment 14:49 <+bridge> oh, yes, thats cuz the gameinfo tells the client which entities to use, yes 14:49 <+bridge> This was only solved by delaying the rendering 14:49 <+bridge> Just wait a few snapshots and them start rendering 14:49 <+bridge> Yes and this info should be available at map load 14:49 <+bridge> but 14:49 <+bridge> no 14:49 <+bridge> Everything else simply sucks 14:49 <+bridge> i think it was made for dynamic changes 14:49 <+bridge> if some gamemode needa that 14:49 <+bridge> needs* 14:49 <+bridge> Why would u want this instead of an own layer dedicated to what u need 14:50 <+bridge> idk, i dont use it anyways 14:50 <+bridge> To me this is a bs solution but it's noones direct fault. Except that we desperately want to not improve net code 14:52 <+bridge> Can you tell me exactly what is happening? 14:53 <+bridge> Connect 14:53 <+bridge> Load map 14:53 <+bridge> Get game into 14:53 <+bridge> (Load map or change entities) 14:53 <+bridge> Info 14:56 <+bridge> And the issue is that we don't know the gamemode before gameinfo. The entities overlay is built at map load. I follow you so far 14:56 <+bridge> Why do we double our vram usage due to this? 14:57 <+bridge> ("Double" i know it's not actually double. You know what I mean) 15:00 <+bridge> Good question. We have unmasked and mask entities 15:00 <+bridge> I thought it's BCS of foxxos mos 15:00 <+bridge> Mod 15:00 <+bridge> But apparently not 15:03 <+bridge> So wait, we don't delay the building of entities until the gameinfo arrives? 15:03 <+bridge> In theory we do now 15:03 <+bridge> But it can be changed on fly 15:03 <+bridge> Anyway let's just remove it 15:04 <+bridge> Ok, then why do we need both masked and unmasked ones? If we get a new gameinfo with new entities, won't we just rebuild? 15:05 <+bridge> I don't think so. But anyway this won't solve the problem anyway 15:05 <+bridge> We don't double 15:05 <+bridge> We multi by eight 15:06 <+bridge> Before we changed the few affecting tiles that don't fit ddnet.png 15:06 <+bridge> 15:06 <+bridge> Now we build one texture per layer 15:06 <+bridge> But since Heinrich didn't want to rely on server browser info, like we did before 15:06 <+bridge> It now sucks 15:07 <+bridge> Can't we just "merge" the texture as we go? 15:07 <+bridge> Or keep rendering onto one texture? 15:07 <+bridge> We can merge almost all probably 15:08 <+bridge> And we should do that xd 15:08 <+bridge> That would help a bit with the vram shortage, right? 15:08 <+bridge> If someone uses high res entities yes 15:08 <+bridge> I haven't checked how large these textures we build are, but I can imagine them getting massive with the huge maps 15:09 <+bridge> Question is ofc still. Why even use them xd 15:10 <+bridge> Or lower vram with a big map. Eitherway, is there any value to keeping all the layers as separate textures? 15:10 <+bridge> How do u want to lower it? 15:11 <+bridge> Dynamic upload? 15:11 <+bridge> I meant as in low vram with big map 15:11 <+bridge> If someone doesnt have 4k entities but they have low vram and try to load a massive map, they might also run out, no? 15:11 <+bridge> Dunno create issue ask Heinrich 15:12 <+bridge> It's his idea, I only implemented it 15:12 <+bridge> And back then I defs want thinking about this 15:12 <+bridge> Wasn't 15:12 <+bridge> Eh. I think I understand the issue mostly. I guess I'll just dig thru the logs when I get to italy to see what the original discussion was 15:16 <+bridge> I guess idiomatic wise it's a nice solution 15:16 <+bridge> 1 layer has 1 texture 15:16 <+bridge> Overhead is simply too insane 15:17 <+bridge> Tune layer has literally 1 tile xddd 15:18 <+bridge> I'm would like to add an entry for `map_create_pixelart` tool in "Extra tools" page in DDNet Wiki, but I'm having hard to describe what it tries to accomplish due to my little knowledge of C++. Can someone explain it, add examples? All explanation I have is the PR that adds it https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/5766 15:18 <+bridge> What I don't understand is the benefit of keeping the textures separate. I don't remember what heinrich wanted exactly so I'll just have to dig 15:19 <+bridge> At least 1 tile has to be seperated 15:20 <+bridge> BCS original entities have a collusin 15:20 <+bridge> Tile switch open I think 15:21 <+bridge> Collision? Wym, a tile on some other layer being at the same position as another on the game layer? 15:21 <+bridge> Or as in collision in the entities texture? 15:22 <+bridge> Ddnet.png 15:22 <+bridge> So both Ur questions are true 15:24 <+bridge> we don't know the server info in all cases, it's unreliable 15:26 <+bridge> BCS net code sucks 15:27 <+bridge> I don't think I quite understand, sorry. I thought the idea of layertypes was just an illusion. Isn't ddnet.png just one image? With every tile having a distinct index? 15:27 <+bridge> Except that there is a collision between two layers 15:28 <+bridge> Oh, ok. So two layers different tile indexes for same position. We have to decide which one to render? Is that the issue? 15:28 <+bridge> It was put to a different position 15:29 <+bridge> In first impl I remapped the tile index. Now we simply use multi texture and put the tile from ddnet.png to the right position 15:30 <+bridge> Since layer IMG were split 15:30 <+bridge> A different position? 15:30 <+bridge> No 15:30 <+bridge> The correct one 15:30 <+bridge> The one ddnet.png normally has collision in 15:30 <+bridge> On 15:31 <+bridge> But changing in the buffer data has the advantage of not using any extra memory ofc 15:31 <+bridge> Entity image approach will always cost another texture 15:32 <+bridge> Still better than what we have now xdd 15:32 <+bridge> Ok maybe I just need to dig around myself. I don't think I fully understand. Why does this specific tile need to be remapped? What does it even collide with? 15:32 <+bridge> I guess BCS grey fox was like. Let's fuck all future devs 15:32 <+bridge> Was the tile moved from one place to another at some version? 15:33 <+bridge> I dunno 15:33 <+bridge> is it about collision tiles? 15:33 <+bridge> if so, that dates back to vanilla 15:33 <+bridge> Switch open tile is the one 15:33 <+bridge> ah 15:33 <+bridge> nvm me then 15:33 <+bridge> Learath open editor 15:34 <+bridge> Siwtch and game layer 15:34 <+bridge> And u will see 15:34 <+bridge> 1 tile same position 15:34 <+bridge> Ddnet.png repositioned 15:34 <+bridge> If u still don't understand buy new brain 15:48 <+bridge> How on earth did this even happen :pepeW: 15:48 <+bridge> Time switch open is on top of solo 15:49 <+bridge> i thought the point of the different layers was so that you could reuse indices 15:49 <+bridge> it certainly didn't look like that to me ^^ 15:50 <+bridge> everything looked like it was compatible with the other layers 15:50 <+bridge> That part was just an illusion. Other layer types was a way to shove the extra data needed for switches and tiles iirc 15:50 <+bridge> For most layers it's also not really worth it 15:50 <+bridge> Binary wise they are different tho 15:51 <+bridge> So why on earth was that one switch tile just randomly moved down? 15:51 <+bridge> So it looks better?? 15:52 <+bridge> Pf, that does make it more annoying indeed 😦 15:53 <+bridge> It's an easy fix 15:53 <+bridge> Just stop compatibility to old clients 15:53 <+bridge> Maps can easy updated 16:00 <+bridge> entity tile code is a mess 16:01 <+bridge> adding a collision tile 16:01 <+bridge> if u dont know u need to add it to a index list of unused stuff 16:01 <+bridge> it gets deleted in the editor etc 16:01 <+bridge> xd 16:01 <+bridge> lots to keep about 16:02 <+bridge> and 07 pls :troll: 16:16 <+bridge> As said to old clients:lol: 16:20 <+bridge> well, the PR is rather clear without looking at the code. It allows you to insert an image.png into a map file at the position you want 16:36 <+bridge> i dont think gitignore should be limited to what we "support" 16:36 <+bridge> i think its fine to gitignore a dir called build 16:36 <+bridge> the glob build* is also fine 16:37 <+bridge> its just common sense 16:37 <+bridge> I'm trying to gitignore its contents instead 16:37 <+bridge> Mh, shouldn’t people add their build dirs to their own local exclude? 16:37 <+bridge> why? 16:37 <+bridge> gitignore should be to make devs life easier 16:37 <+bridge> so that it doesn't depend on the name 16:37 <+bridge> of your chosen build directory 16:37 <+bridge> (in fact that's how it worked for the longest time) 16:38 <+bridge> i do that 16:38 <+bridge> but gitignore is a good convenience 16:38 <+bridge> and new ppl dont know about .git/info/exclude 16:38 <+bridge> yes, that's why I try to gitignore its contents 16:38 <+bridge> so that it doesn't depend on the chosen name of the build directory 16:38 <+bridge> not a magic name `build`, but rather all build directories 16:43 <+bridge> I've so much stuff there 16:43 <+bridge> Easy to block the dir 17:17 <+bridge> rust rly should make the sparse index asap 17:17 <+bridge> the index updates get out of hand 17:18 <+bridge> @heinrich5991 which pr was on github? 17:18 <+bridge> wanna see the progress xD 17:22 <+bridge> https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/issues/9069 17:22 <+bridge> founnd 17:48 <+bridge> Can’t afford 17:48 <+bridge> (@Ryozuki) 17:49 <+bridge> its 1€ 17:55 <+bridge> its chillerdragon 17:57 <+bridge> i always get nice 30KB/s xdd 17:57 <+bridge> amazing 17:57 <+bridge> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1063139641861087302/image.png 20:04 <+bridge> i just thought something 20:04 <+bridge> in the earth some numbers are ilegal to share or even know 20:05 <+bridge> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number 20:05 <+bridge> thus 20:05 <+bridge> if you have an index of all possible combinations 20:05 <+bridge> such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel 20:05 <+bridge> the library of babel is ilegal then 20:06 <+bridge> is a distribution of numbers that incluse such number ilegal too? 20:06 <+bridge> is a distribution of numbers that include such number ilegal too? 20:06 <+bridge> math is ilegal 20:07 <+bridge> :pepeH: 20:08 <+bridge> 01100111 01101111 01110100 01100011 01101000 01100001 what source code could this be? 20:08 <+bridge> this discord server has ilegal numbers too 20:08 <+bridge> since bot client names are strings 20:08 <+bridge> they can be represented as a number 20:09 <+bridge> and such number is thus then ilegal in this dc 20:09 <+bridge> due to heinrich 20:09 <+bridge> so heinrich is effectively banning the use of 1 or more numbers 20:09 <+bridge> such is life 20:09 <+bridge> sadge 20:10 <+bridge> dont post the numbers 20:10 <+bridge> :justatest: 20:10 <+bridge> https://tenor.com/view/numbers-gif-18415713 20:11 <+bridge> there was kinda a movie, idr what the plot was tho, with a number that was "illegal" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film) 20:20 <+bridge> This reminds of a random, non serious, thought I had. Programming is about fixing typos. You deem space a type and then you fix it with the "correct" letter (character). 20:20 <+bridge> This reminds of a random, non serious, thought I had. Programming is about fixing typos. You deem space a typo and then you fix it with the "correct" letter (character). 20:36 <+bridge> here a page of illegal numbers 20:36 <+bridge> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjunctive_sequence