01:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] the second looks a bit annoying to read due to spelling mistakes. still worth it despite this? 04:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Click on the link and thank me later 👉👉👉https://t.me/+6418gUGZ6qQ2YzE0 08:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon 08:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] controllers on mac don't work? 09:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] For me controller only worked in steam when i disable steam input for some reason xD xbox360 09:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh so never worked without steam? 09:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes 09:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] But maybe it's related to sdl version 09:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Currently use a custom version bcs the official was broken 09:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] But yeah only steam and only with that workaround 09:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] Funny thing is that on many games i have to enable steam input to have controller working on ddnet it's opposite for some reason 09:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] eh for some reasons it's just not detecting it 09:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] and I'm 100% sure it's connected since I can use it elsewhere 10:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://8bitworkshop.com/ 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Robyt3 I guess they should work with your recent addition 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.phoronix.com/news/LPC-2022-Rust-Linux 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] why wouldn't they be as fast? 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] Some arguments would be the constraints rust imposes 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] But its always good to prove its as fast 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1019176752435712030/unknown.png 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] this sucks for aya 😦 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] Whats that 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] Compile Once : Run Everywhere 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] basically it uses vmlinux 11:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] I use that for kernelspace 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Mesa-22.3-Rusticl-Merged 11:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] :bluekitty: 12:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Took an oral exam for computer architecture, the guy structured it like a russian roulette. 1 mandatory question, 2 optional questions. Any wrong answers and regardless of your score in the written exam you fail. If he asks any of the optional ones there is no take backs 12:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] wat 12:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] any wrong answers and you fail the course. a) bad bad bad b) has he thought about the psychological impact that has? 12:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's devastating. I knew the entire course curriculum and more and even I was concerned when I took the 2 optionals 12:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] To be fair. The questions arent that difficult if you know the content. But the way he structures the exam makes it so scary 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's a bad teacher 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you wanna change school, you can study where i now works 🙂 12:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] :greenthing: 12:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Chairn do you teach rust? 12:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] And congratz on the work 12:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I keep seeing that learning lisp will change your view on many things 12:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Is it true? 12:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I rly should learn it 12:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] There is like a big lisp cult 13:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] "cult" 13:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] learning some basic haskell taught me a bit about functional programming patterns many years ago. maybe lisp is similar 🙂 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] gameshow exam, "Would you like to go double or nothing on your grade with the final bonus question?" 14:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] I was joking xD, but ive seen more comments on saying how lisp changed more their way of thinking and not the same for haskell 14:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe its a bias hn has 14:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just see it there a lot 15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] i teach digital electronics and processor architecture and design 15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] i could also teach c/c++ 15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sounds interesting 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Chairn could you work, say, as a cpu designer for intel/amd? 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] i could 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] nice 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] there was ARM where i live, but they left 2 or 3 years ago 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] i could also work for NVidia, and any company that does CPU or alikes designs 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Would you say the years you spent learning this were efficiently spent? 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] define "efficiently spent" 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Could have you learnt what you needed in a smaller time span 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] And where most of the things you learnt relevant 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably yes. But what matters imo, is to be able to stand back, get some time to look at the bigger picture in a complete system rather than just the circuit you're supposed to work 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably yes. But what matters imo, is to be able to stand back, get some time to look at the bigger picture in a complete system rather than just the circuit you're supposed to work on 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] i guess from experience during my phd. My master 2 was not that interesting, but it gave me a quite broad picture of all the different things that exist 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think the most important stuffs i learnt are from my internships as well. My first one was on cache design and replacement policy 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] my second one was on processor design in C++ language using High Level Synthesis (HLS) 15:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] Since you understand how processors work in high detail, would you say it helps you optimize code? Or do you need to know more about compiler intrinsics/codegen etc 15:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sry for the questions xd im just curious 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] you can optimize the algorithm, but fine tuning the code requires to know the internal design of cpu 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] anyway, you shouldn't need to do that as compiler does it way better than you except in some cases like some very used function that you can fine tune 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sometimes i wish i still continued uni but i sometimes also think i did well, i didnt work back then and it was a high cost (even if its a public uni) and i knew i would take more than the 4 years, which means i would spend even more money (well, my parents) 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] Although i do like learning more by myself, at my pace, without anxiousness from exams 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just need more time 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] For instance, one important design aspect in CPU that has a large impact on code performance is cache. And im still baffled at how many developpers don't know about cache while it can easily hinder their code performance 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Many ppl in c 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Teach linked lists 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Load Store Queue is rather linked list friendly 🙂 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] :justatest: 15:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Doctor Chairn 15:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 15:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] soon 15:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] defense will be held in december normally 15:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Chairn will you teach ur students about the aclaimed open source game made in c++ that is ddnet? 15:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 16:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably not as the class i give are not software oriented but hardware oriented 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeye was joking 16:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://youtu.be/rX0ItVEVjHc do you think this level of radical restructuring of the code is worth it? 16:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] Tldw he starts with the usual entities with properties model but ends up with arrays of properties indexed by the entity and transformation functions that work on groups of properties that fit into the cache entirely 16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] I imagine it'd be a huge improvement as you could also utilize vectorization much easier this way, but I was never quite sure whether this would have a significant enough improvement that it's worth making the code less intuitive 16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] sounds like the good old array of structures vs structures of arrays 🙂 17:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] the dude is my type tho 17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/xd0y6b/slow_progress_is_stil_a_progress/ 17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes, that's the gist of it indeed 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] it all depends on the access patterns 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] just realized this is #developer oops 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] This is the only way we are slowly cleaning up ddnet 😄 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] i don't have time to watch it right now, im procrastinating too hard on reddit 😄 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Modules that are new are coded cleanly with nice interfaces, good encapsulation 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Outside those it's a proper mess 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] spaghetti code remains me of my grandma cuisine ❤️ 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] spaghetti code reminds me of my grandma cuisine ❤️ 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] It is a fun watch if you can handle some C++ slander. He is a good talker. Though his ideas aren't extremely new indeed 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I hate messy code but I can't code anything clean so that's a problem. 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] This was my concern with the idea aswell. The way you code intuitively with array of structs you do end up with properties relevant to the entity within the cache. If your next values rely on anything except the old value of the property, it is possible that the other way is actually more cache efficient 17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] I've been doing some interviews lately as well, and they keep asking about THE design pattern of our overall project and I don't even know how to answer, everytime. 17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think I watched this talk before 17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] gotta re-watch a little to make sure 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just say entity component system 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Over and over again 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] :justatest: 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] what does it even mean 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] i don't really get design patterns in general tbh 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] We achieve a high kernel hit ratio by utilizing a pub sub component system model 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] ECS is what unity does. Each entity gets many components, like a script component, a physics component, an animation component etcetc 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] isn't unity trying to move from GameObjects into a ECS structure? 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] and there's a package call ECS which is still in preview 17:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] I know some of them, but there is no way to nail single one into a unity project when you have so many third-party code that scaffold it. 17:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.entities@0.51/manual/index.html 17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] I honestly dont know how unity works. I know you can use it as ECS pretty much though 17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Not sure if it's the default or something they are working towards 17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe both and they just redefined what ecs really means to them 17:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] Unity has too many unfinished system at this point 17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] ECS is basically a pattern that helps with achieving the design that guy was talking about in the talk without the code looking completely insane 😄 17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] i might watch it later in bed 17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] He is a decent talker, you might enjoy it 17:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] There's a new UILayout system that is meant to replace the UnityUI system that replaced UnityGUI system with a new TextLayout system that replace the TextMeshPro layout system which they bought to replace their own old UnityUI text system. 17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] Lol, so much iteration 17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] Unity has three different text layout system in-engine right now and none of them has a complete features set. Unity was updating the TextMeshPro thing they bought and just dropped it and leave it in preview forever and started working on their new UI system which is also in preview 17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] Wrong 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] btw i think i'm not good at interviews nor looking for jobs 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] unity ECS is not like the ECS that bevy uses 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] they dont have "systems" 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] unless you mean the new experimental thing 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's ok, just never leave your job 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] i forgot where i saw this on hn 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] it was well explained 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] what if the jobs leave him? 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's what i thought so I was a bit confused 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ok, so only a little wrong 😄 17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] no, its completly different 17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] cuz in ECS the entity is just a id 17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] ECS is like SQL for games 17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't think unity calls their default structure ECS 17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] systems are the queries 17:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] It uses a very core idea to ECS. Just didn't take it to it's logical conclusion. I think it's closer to what an ECS is supposed to be rather than the traditional OOP structure 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > harles 1 day ago | prev | next [–] 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > Based on many of the comments here, it seems like there’s a lot of misunderstanding of what an ECS is - unfortunately the name does this no favors as it should probably be written as entity/component/system paradigm or renamed entirely. It’s not just a system that contains entities and components (that’s not what “system” refers to in the ECS name). 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > ECS is a paradigm where entities are the data-free IDs, components contain data associated with entities, and the systems operate on entities and components in batch, usually with database-like queries. 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > I have yet to find a good ECS reference, but Unity’s intro[0] gives some decent flavor for it. Note that only the DOTS subset of Unity (part of it anyways) uses an ECS. The default GameObject/MonoBehavior way of writing code in Unity isn’t part of an ECS. 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > [0]: https://learn.unity.com/tutorial/entity-component-system 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] every interview I went to make me question my abilities. I currently have one year of lead developer experience with no previous work experience. I tried to look for junior position and they think they couldn't pay me as I expected before I even tell them, and senior position just don't like how I got no professional trainings and I don't use chinese terms because I was "self-taught" 17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] :kek: 17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] ECS is the future paradigm for games, allows the usage of full cpu resources 17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Rn games paralelize horribly 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] they might think me as a wildcard with too much asterisks and risk to brought in. 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Unity gameobjects are very light containers for components. I don't quite care what this random on hn says. It's nothing close to the OOP approach in Unreal e.g. 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Still 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Gameobjects are not part of ecs 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can't imagine every game working with ECS tbh 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] Also unity just call their old system the GameObject stack I believe 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] GO vs ECS 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] which is a bit stupid 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just try to use bevy 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] Their ecs is some magick 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can't learn rust to save my life 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] Life cant be saved 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] also no one will hire a guy with niche engine experiences 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] I even tried to look for godot positions 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Thats such a bad mentality 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] none in beijing 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Then stop gamedev and learn web dev with bloat js 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Learning is for urself 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] a few in shanghai but all of them are looking for stripping godot out of godot 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't mind learning 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] be a hacker (in the real sense) 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] but I really want money at this stage 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] :kek: 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's not part of what unity calls an ECS. What they are in reality is very close to what you might call an entity in a proper ECS system. But I'll just stop arguing because this is just a very pedantic argument at this point 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Gamedev is not the way inho 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] They just abuse u 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] From what i heard 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] If i want money 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] You* 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Become indie dev. Live on instant noodles 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] I was going to and this random guy found me to make ddnet rip-off. and now i feel ripped off 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you can find a job working on gamedev tools you can usually avoid the bad part of gavedev 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] But yeah, i would never motivate my learnings based on possible income, best way to become a boring drone 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] btw the guy is pretty nice but the company is dying obviously 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] He took you out to hotpot 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Be respectful to bossman 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] If you enjoy programming 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] Honestly you just have to market urself 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] I enjoy programming off work when i'm paid 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] And find another job 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] I know it sucks 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] Idk how to do it well myself 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] :kek: honestly 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] the entire game industry is kinda weird lately 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] in china 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] He is in China though. I can see their job market being much different to the wide array of jobs in the eu market 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] but i always think how stupid they are for not hiring me, and im sure they got a stupid guy with 0 open source work to prove their worth 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] and just some exp 17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] where they did nothing relevant 17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] and i laugh and cry internally 17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] :kek: I'm just secretly hoping our money problem goes away soon at this point tbh 17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] so i don't need to find a job 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] but fake ppl get better salaries 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye, I can pass technical interview just fine 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] unless the technical interview guy is stupid 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] even tho they are like: bro, you got no supervisor do you 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] you know when u know there are way too many nuances in a question asked 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] but they dont know about them 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] ignorance is a bliss 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] usually it's just HR person don't like me 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Today a random friend of mine asked me if I'd help a friend of his with a work project. It's literally some c# application pulling data from a db and doing some stat calculations on it. It's actually quite sad to see the level recent graduates are at 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] cuz they had to make it risk free or something 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] i see it at my work 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I should just lie if I really need to find a job 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] for now I'm still trying to be honest 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] HR people think that if you dont know a language asked you will never learn it and skip you entirely 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] i sometimes dont wanna call myself a java expert 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] but im sure i know a fair share more than some devs they have 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] What would you need to lie about? 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] i just dont feel confident saying that 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] That I'm a junior developer with no supervisor 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think the lead developer thing 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] is holding people off 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] lmao 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] that'll match the 1 year work experience 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] So you need to say you are a junior dev or you need to say you are a lead dev? 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] lead dev with intern pay 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] I need to say i'm a junior dev 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] :BASED: 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats what i was at my first job 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] While looking for junior positions ofc 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] Good idea. 1 year and lead dev probably short circuits sth in hr peoples mind 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] (but I listed all the gamejam projects) 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] most of them are complete finished game 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] work experience is such a weird thing 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] no one cares 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] cuz u can be rly good and have 0 real work exp 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] lmao 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] ppl simply dont know how to value you 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] the tech interview guy sometime got impressed 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it never passes the HR guy 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] be fake with the HR 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] say buzzwords 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] large companies? 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] In todays job market your best bet is just knowing someone honestly 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] it is 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats how i got my current job rn 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] i skipped entirely the HR part 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I once had the interviewer cry cuz he thinks he's bad at his job for some reason... 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] did 1 interview 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] and done 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] which is a bizzard experience 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] 😅 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] well if he is crying at a interview he is bad 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] smaller companies where you can talk more directly with people might make it easier to skip HR, but not sure 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] having connections in the company 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] you may not skip hr but they will accept you anyway 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye, but smaller companies doesn't throw their position listing everywhere so it's a bit hard to find tbh 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, true, need to be a little more lucky to find those 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even getting a friend inside to put your resume on top of the stack is very helpful 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm currently in a small company 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] there's just that one small problem of me not getting my salaries for five month lmao 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh god 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] its also how companies get lot of incompetent people too 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] and nepotism 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean boss is still a nice guy, and we are helping him get fund as much as we could as well. 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Funnily enough they get fucked either way. Hire boss' son, fucked. Hire HRman's friend, fucked. Hire recent graduate from prestigious university, fucked 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Proper interviews are hard to do 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] we just got tencent's first party content provider signed so we might have some one-off projects that could feed us some money for the long term. 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] Glad i live in the eu 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] 🇪🇺 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] but we really need a quick investor on our mobile projects cuz the original investor cut their budget and left us. 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think this might be a problem in the EU too, for a company that's about to go bankrupt 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Payrolls are always the first thing to start failing 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh believe me I can sue him easily and get my pays. but we are trying to keep the project alive. 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] I would sue 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] And go find smth better 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] A company that cant pay you is a failure 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] what if the company is literally three guys 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] can you pay me? If not you're a failure :troll: 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] Got a 30/30 from computer architecture :Celebrate: 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] :kek: 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] Its good to not see companies or employeers as friends 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] They are the first to lay you off 17:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] nah, they can't lay me off 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] The guy is living in communist china, he really might be in one of the few countries that has better worker protections than the EU 😄 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] But he is not getting paid!! 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] Congratz xd 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye but i'm willing to not get paid 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] otherwise i wouldn't stay here for five month 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] If he and his fellow employees wanted to create an issue about it I'm pretty sure that company instantly disappears 17:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean this in general 17:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] in reality this is just a small team of 7 people 17:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] well this is how i think 17:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] im not getting pay, i sue, bye 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] :poggers: 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] I still want to finish the project to get my 20% cut 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's a mobile game afterall 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] I find some people in smaller companies especially do think more in a "we are a family" sort of way 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] So as long as things will be better in the future, they will try their best to stick on the ship 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] I was in a small company 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] With less than 8 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] They paid like shit 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] did you sue them 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] That's a nice cut 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] Lots of freedom tho 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] But they are not ur family 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ur working to make aliving 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] no contract was signed so I might get screwed 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] Here if u work and havent signed 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] You obviously never worked anywhere east of vienna 😄 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] You are still a worker 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] Under an indefinite contract 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] Iirc 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] Its covered 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] No contracts, word of mouth, work because you like boss and coworkers all very common stuff 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean the cut wasn't written on any paper. 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] The law covers this 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] And you still have rights 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] In spain and probs eu 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] but given we literally have less than 5 people working on the project, so it's probably about that much. 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes within the EU you are fine. Outside though especially in smaller companies there is this very lax vibe about stuff 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hm, 5 ppl 20% cuts mean the bossman gets nothing. How does that work? 😄 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] Suing is not always worth it, it might cost you more than it will earn you 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] i believe the new hires are paid salaries. 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] instead of cuts 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] if we can get more fund we would hire a entire team for sure. 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] In the US it definitely will. I heard it's much more affordable in most places in EU 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] by cuts i mean after we paid off everything, employees, investors, platform fees (which is 50/50 instead of 70/30 in china btw lmao) and whatever left we might share across the lead dev designer artist and boss. 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] at least that's what I think they told me 18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe i'm getting it wrong. but I don't really care if the game can go live, and survive for a year. it's probably gonna be fine regardless what percentage was the cut 18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] ~~and i'm gonna snatch everyone off this company and make my own indie game~~ 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] How do you survive with no salary btw? 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] I got paid enough to live off saving 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] got new phones and steam decks and stuff as well. 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] i can live for maybe two more months before I run dry 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Your poor savings :AnyaSob:. Hopefully your gamble pays off and you get it back in the form of a cut 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] i don't need to pay rent that helps a lot 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's not that much, but we started living off colleague guys cooking instead of deliveries once we are low on money 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] that bring the food cost down like 4 times per months. 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] so really it was quite ok 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] cheap food, no rent, free internet. 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] more than enough for me to live 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] Huh, deliveries are expensive in china too. That's intersting 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] it is in beijing 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] How do deliveries work there btw? Do you have the gig economy there aswell? 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's not that expensive 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] I eat about 3k cny per month with deliveries i think 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] WTF 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] u clearly too rich 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] :justatest: 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hm, that's a fair bit. I spend half that on deliveries, but I only order food once every 3 days 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] i'm paid with 15k cny per month with no rent to pay so it's pretty ok 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] but its still 1/5 of your earnings 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] how much it translates to Euro? 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] That's a pretty good wage too. Especially on no rent 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] around 2k 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] then it's decent 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] and >400 for food 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] but no rent tho 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] i pay around 200 € for food xD 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] If i'm renting i would probably cook 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] and i mostly buy organic xd 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats already the "more expensive" variantion 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] it is beijing after all 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, getting advantage on having no rent, food, etc while getting 2k is massive 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm guessing you eat a lot at home though 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats already the "more expensive" variation 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] in my hometown i can live of 1k per month 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, getting advantage on having no rent, food, etc payment while getting 2k is massive 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] in my hometown i can live off 1k per month 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes i am cooking myself, thats cheap sure 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I spend about 200 on groceries, another 200 on deliveries. Though I honestly dont ever hold back on my food spending 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I pay around 400€ for food, including cat food / dog food 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd cut from everything else to keep eating like this 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] currently with a guy voluntarily cooking, it's like 700 per month. poor cooking guy doesn't ask for labor costs tho 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] rip xD 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] ik 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can't help it, it's a lot 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] good i dont have pets 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet]