00:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] especially when other people uses it 00:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk i would imagine this having a toggle bind 00:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think i have it disabled, not sure 00:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] The design of it is ugly, if a person felt forced to use it, I don't think it'd be a good experience 00:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 maybe ur interested https://www.jackos.io/rust-kernel/rust-for-linux.html 00:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] I liked Voxels design 00:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] Prototype, could even be animated, just wanted to know if this has potential 00:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] This 00:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] could just use an entities background as well 00:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah i liked his desing aswell, except it doesnt actually represent the true hammer hitbox 00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Feels like something from a cheat client, no matter which way you make it, don't really think it belongs 00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] well, I think it only feels like that because it's not part of the ddnet client already 00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yeah but it renders behind everything idk 00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] sometimes new cool features feel like that 00:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. remember autohammer after freeze? ^^ 00:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ya, but idk. Visual guides are usually what you see in cheat clients lol 00:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] Autoedge is what i would think of in a cheat client 00:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen are you around and have some minutes to try to diagnose the rust PR? 00:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] if it also were to show the direction of aiming, this is what that shape would look like, sharpest point furhest away, then it becomes larger closer to a tee 00:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1003786653896278087/hammerrange.png 00:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] such a triangle could be made pretty interesting graphically imo 00:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think if you wanted to invest time into making the game easier for new players, you should probably make some new novice maps. 00:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Far more valuable 00:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] sadly my maps are deemed unoriginal, not much i can do about that 00:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] and more novice maps doesnt make the game more accesible... 00:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] Novice maps should have different rules @ tester 00:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] It makes it more playable 00:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] We only have like 4? super basic novice maps 00:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] We should have 100 00:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] sure 00:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] okay, for the linux x86-64 build, can you add a `VERBOSE=1` to the make command line? 00:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] like `make VERBOSE=1` 00:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] so we can see what command it tries to execute 00:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm, the nightly is still building for half an hour 😄 00:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] alright, nightly is indeed nightly ^^ 00:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] do you still have the CMakeCache.txt for the failed build? 00:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] if i were to fully develop this feature into something looking nice and working well, could we do a community vote on whether to add it? 00:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] We should at least decide if we'd consider it a cheat before you implement it 00:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] for me it seems fine, maybe others disagree 00:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] vote on that then? 00:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's a very minor cheat 00:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] it looks similar to hook line to me 00:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] And hook line is a cheat, if you're not using ddnet client, you're disadvantaged 00:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk its open source anyone can run it 00:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] you're not using the commonly accepted definition of cheat 00:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you use that, then freeze prediction is cheat 00:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] ^^ 00:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anything that ddnet uses is fine, we're talking about if it's a cheat, it is 00:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's not a good argument, if someone made an open source cheat client we still wouldn't accept it 00:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] okay, so what do you consider a cheat? 00:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anything that gives even a slight advantage 00:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] over what? 00:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] true but his argument sounded like its p2w or something 00:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] entities 😄 00:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Vanilla client I guess? But basically no one uses that, you're backing me into a wall for no reason, the question is, is it a cheat? 00:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes. 00:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] If you don't use it, you're not getting information that someone else has 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] I feel like this definition of cheat isn't useful 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] my argument is that playing ddnet should feel teeish and without too many unnecessary lines or distractions, i dont think this is a cheat but i think its unnecessary 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, I'm also wondering if it actually helps you while playing 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] new players should see the game for itself, not a bunch of lines over the place 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's basically saying "every gameplay feature that the vanilla client doesn't have is what I call cheat" 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] I never wondered if I can hit someone at this distance 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] i.e. you're saying "bubliman's feature isn't present in the vanilla client" 00:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is true, but doesn't give a lot of information 00:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] It doesn't really help people that are experienced, and I think anything around the tee would probably do more harm than good for newer players anyways 00:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] If it was somehow added to the crosshair, maybe it'd be usable 00:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] a player using various methods to create an advantage beyond normal gameplay, depends what u think is normal gameplay i guess 00:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes thats why it should be optional just like hookline 00:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] even hookline is kind of overused I think 00:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think saying it's a lot like hook collision is basically agreeing that it's a cheat, I think everyone would agree with that 00:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wanted it just for those annoying spots where you have to hook through corner to get someone out 00:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] because continuously shooting is annoying 00:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even if it's an almost useless advantage 00:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, I think it's like hook collision; it's not present in the vanilla client either, and it helps your gameplay 00:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe we can get away from the word 'cheat' if we disagree on its definition 00:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] we can simply substitute your definition instead 00:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] "unfair advantage" ? 00:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] well if you want a hardcore category to exist, that could happen i guess raw teeworlds without any help 00:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] "unfair" is not really a neutral word; then we'd have to figure out what is unfair 00:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] > a player using various methods to create an advantage beyond normal gameplay 00:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] "disagreed advantage" ? 00:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] i like bubliman's definition 00:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] now we have to agreed on "normal gameplay" 😄 00:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] well, apparently that's the teeworlds client for Skeith 00:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes we are a community i guess so we agree on whats fair 00:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's a fair base 00:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] so yes, hook collision is like the hammer hit box, it's an advantage over vanilla gameplay 00:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] normal gameplay at this time is propably the newest release of DDnet 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] normal gameplay at this time is probably the newest release of DDnet 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] normal gameplay is what the comminity decides it to be? 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk how u guys decide stuff here, if its only the devs or not, im new to #developer 00:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] It doesn't automate anything, it just gives you a visual cue, the word advantage is what should be asked. I think deen more or less meant that when asking if it was a cheat 00:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah, it's an advantage over not having it 00:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea, I guess 00:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think most people would agree that yes, it does give some minor advantage. 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] to be honest, hammer range is not the biggest advantage you could get 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen did u mean that? 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably helps for aled though 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] no, I don't think deen meant that 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think deen meant whether we consider this as something that should be allowed or not 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] however, shotgun/laser line with reflection and grenade curve is, in my opinion, too much of an advantage 00:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] the question is: if we allow hammer range, where do we stop? 00:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Grey area, honestly 00:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Should it be added to ddnet? I really don't think so 00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Imo freeze bar is a bigger advantage for aled because the difference in opacity let's you know when a tee is in freeze 00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] what? 00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] @bubliman I guess you could try opening an issue at this point 00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] then the discussion would be a bit more structured 00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Maybe it could be added while in ctrl shift d as an information type deal, but I don't think it should be an option to help with gameplay 00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Freeze bar changes opacity when tee is in/out of freeze. Imo it makes aled much easier 00:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] so as a debugging tool? if its that big of an advatage, ppl could play just with the debugger, ultimately helping with gameplay 00:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 will do! I just need to figure out how, shouldn't be too hard 🙂 00:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues go here 00:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] @bubliman 00:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] click new issue 00:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] you'll need a github account though 00:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] this link displays a login form for non-logged in users, I usually link /issues instead 00:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah im logged in so its fine 00:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dunno, im always logged in ^^ 00:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1003795162855657572/unknown.png 00:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] (that's all you see on /new) 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Should I write my opinion in the first comment? 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Idk, it seems annoying to feel obligated to use it, I guess it's a personal thing for me. But I think most people wouldn't use it for an advantage if it was only displayed in debugger 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] so the advantage is less harmful 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's just information 00:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] do it like you want to 00:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Kinda silly argument I know 00:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can see how you don't want to be 'forced' to use it because it's allowed and because you find it ugly 00:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] debugger is already useful to display your actual position anyways btw 00:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] So it'd be a similar bit of information alongside it 00:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd argue it makes the most sense to be there 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] you can now have this information in the HUD without debug mode 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] I meant your shadow tee 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] In real time 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] I fear even that is possible to show without debug HUD 😅 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] but I'd have to look it up 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1003796231660773436/unknown.png 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea that one 00:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ya, I don't know the command, if there is one 00:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] Personally I think the worst thing allowed is the aimhack bind which allows people to autoaim to cardinal directions 00:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats based, though removing it is propably not possible, unless you kept all ranks achieved with it as still valid 00:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats based, though removing it is probably not possible, unless you kept all ranks achieved with it as still valid 00:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] its literally cheating idc if people got ranks by cheating 00:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] but more so for me people have started to use it in ictf 00:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] which is sooooooo dumb 00:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] i also think this is cheating, but it's not an intended cheat, more like a feature abuse 01:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] how does that even help in ictf 01:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] You can get that without debug 01:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] I forgot the command but there is one 01:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah? neat 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] Let's move our discussion here, I'm going to sleep, Good Night! 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] good night 🙂 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] Let's move our discussion here. I'm going to sleep, Good Night! 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] it is instant autoaim to horizantal 01:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] so imagine you are hooking ceiling 01:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] so crosshair placement is off 01:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] instant flick with no possibility of overshoot 04:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I hadn't realized this, this should immediately be removed, it's ruining the game /s 04:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] This one is a far bigger cheat than every other non-issue mentioned here 😄 04:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] Its funny you can fix aim cheat thing with a single character in config code but its too late 04:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] i have never even used the aim bind. i think it's kind of a nasty misuse of otherwise legitimate mouse sens options 04:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's ofc valid and okay to use it in ddrace, but i see how it complicates other modes 04:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] we could put min value to sth like 20 to fix it 05:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] ya it would be super easy 05:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] that may have been the "single-character" fix Tater said 05:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's true if tater says 05:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean just add a leading character to the minimum value for cl_mouse_max_distance in the config file 05:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] but its in the game now and imo it makes double nades a little less annoying at some points, but other uses of it is kinda annoying (like using it on shotgun) 05:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think its a big enough advantage that many players would stay with old version if it was removed, I assume 0.7 also has it 06:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] Its hard to remove advantages for that reason I guess 07:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ya I'd never update, lining up double nades is annoying :kek: 07:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] and triple ofc 09:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] Don't make teeworlds too ez xd 09:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] There should be puzzle based maps on tutorials :thonk: 09:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] There should be puzzle based maps on tutorials :thonk: (would be fun ngl) 09:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sry don't know how github works, accidentaly close the issue 😂 09:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sry don't know how github works, accidentaly closed the issue 😂 09:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] the solution isnt aim hack imo 09:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] True, ill try to think of a solution, this seems interesting 09:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] Angle binds can't be changed, nor would it feel good for high end players to change such things, it removes tedious parts of ddrace, it's more of a QoL at this point. Plenty of ranks heavily make use of angle bind, unrealistic to do without. It's quite literally a feature at this point 09:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] dumb argument, If the map has a tedious part you dont aimbot to make it easier, you probably just shouldnt accept the map with a tedious part 09:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] i really hate that no features are ever retconed in this game 09:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] Deal with it 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] I dont deal with cheaters 09:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] should be banned 09:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's been in the game since the start, can't really be removed 09:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] people said that it could, not that i know anything about coding 09:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] It should be imo or at least bannable from now on 09:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd imagine it'd be impossible outside of forcing a specific client 09:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] You could remove it from new releases of the client, but people would stop updating 09:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] you could detect it in the same way you would detect an aimbot 09:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] Too complicated and messy 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] And old ranks exist, the next step would be to wipe all existing ranks and start new 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont like the idea of allowing aimbot cause its too complicated to prevent it 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well one solution could be to have an indicator for when u are aiming 270° (kinda useless), 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] the better solution would be to make grenade more forgiving, have the perfect direction downwards for a larger range of aiming angle then just one degree, f.e 265°-275°, bit of an allowance for players to make fast flicks with grenade without aimbot... (sadly this would either need a server tune function or a slight change of grenade physics) 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Which this discussion has already been had, it's not really going to happen 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] wipe ranks that use it 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] What's an angle bind? The 45 degree bind? 09:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] How can you cheat with it? 09:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] it aims for you 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's a problem in pvp modes in very specific cases, I guess 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] > Plenty of ranks heavily make use of angle bind, unrealistic to do without 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] Can you give an example? 09:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] sure, gimme a second 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Most of the stop over maps by inner peace 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] noone can flick and get a perfect 270° aim, so thats why its kept in here, could be solved by what i said above imo a more "player" controlled option 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] If not all 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] if a rank makes heavy use of aimbot it shouldnt count 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe thats a hot take 09:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] There's quite a few solo maps that make use of shotgun that are very hard to beat if you don't use angle bind, I'd imagine 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] he was quoting Skeith btw 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] ik 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] The vanilla client has this "feature", anyone can do it, so it's not really a cheat. 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] listen im sure many maps are easier with aimbot 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] meaningless 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Every single teeworlds client allows use of angle bind 09:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] and its meaningless that vanilla has it 09:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] doesnt mean we have to allow it 09:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] No point discussing with you 👋 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Dr.Funmanteddy go talk to ppl at the official teewords discord i guess... Changing it in ddnet would propably not resolve the issue u are having with shooting gamemodes 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Idk doesnt matter anyways 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think ddnet should ban it in general in the same way botting is banned 09:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] and its up to the ictf community to do the same 09:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it will probably only ever be banned in our tournaments anyways 09:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think so too, but you need to consider stuff, first off all you cant really detect whether the bind was use, maybe possible with teehistorian after some tweaking idk whether it keeps such detailed data 09:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think so too, but you need to consider stuff, first off all you cant really detect whether the bind was used, maybe possible with teehistorian after some tweaking idk whether it keeps such detailed data 09:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Idk i just also really dont like the argument that it makes hard things easier to do 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] like maybe if something requires aimbot to do consistenly it shouldnt be in most maps 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't see a good use case for the angle bind for those map 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ask @Shinoa for a demo 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Or check the teehistorian yourself 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] yep one tile with double or triple rocket is the only use i guess 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] They make heavy use of angle bind to do some crazy skips 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] I've watched Shinoa play it 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] TAS? 09:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah but like i wouldnt argue for a feature that allows consistenty in doing like a 2 tile aled or somthing 09:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] aledbot 😄 09:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] then remove rank 09:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Wouldn't be fair, everyone accepts it as a feature of the client, it's been known and allowed for years. 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I get that they got the rank under the pretense of it being fair game 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] The fact that it's been here for a long time doesn't mean that it should stay... 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it isnt anymore 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] so rip bozo 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] Pointless topic imo, genuinely can't be touched, causes too many issues 09:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] Angle bind is important in the game, but it can only be limited to vertical and horizontal angles. 09:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] rip off the bandaid and dont look back 09:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wish, plenty of things I'd change about this game, but alas. 09:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] What do u think of my idea, it was ignored ... 09:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont think you can change it to make it more forgiving 09:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] just say fuck it this is nearly impossible to do without bot 09:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] possible 09:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] I dont know if physics of the game should be changed 09:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] this would only work for grenade, and it could only be for ddnet servers 09:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] You still haven't given an example 09:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] wym? 09:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont play ddrace but skeith is saying the double nade or whatever is hard 09:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] he wants us to design maps without triple rocket if we need aimbot for it 09:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 09:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] You said "Plenty of ranks heavily make use of angle bind, unrealistic to do without" 09:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] but instead of unrealistic, you said impossible 09:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] i didnt dude 09:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] im not @Skeith 09:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's not hard, it's just time consuming, once you've done a double nade thousands of times, you'd prefer if you could do it instantly, and it to be consistent. Usually it only gives a slight edge over someone not using it 09:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok well i wish i would never miss shot in ictf 09:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh ops 😄 09:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] ddrace isn't a pvp mode 09:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] so its cool if i download bot client then? 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] Go for it 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] Get banned though 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] adding aimbot > maps that rely on it > ranks that rely on it > remove it all? 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] its not a pvp mode tho 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] ig 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Skeith #8 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/8 09:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] It has rules just like every other mode, depends on the server 09:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ya ya 09:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] maps can stay i guess, they should just be rated higher, and get their ranks wiped 09:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] if this were to happen, i've use the aimbot bind myself and i understand why its nice to have it in race f.e 09:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah i think that makes sense 10:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok, rn the aim bind has a 45 deg snap in all directions, 10:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] imo should be reduced to upward direction and the snap should be smaller significantly 10deg 20deg 15deg something like that 10:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] also make it only usable with rocket equipped? 10:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] good to make the bind more user friendly aswell 10:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] the other direction would be to remove it entierly making ddnet the hardcore game that it is i guess 10:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] but the thing is the bind takes advantage of your cursor proximity to your tee, since its so close it forces itself to be quantized 10:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] so changing it is kind of. impossible? 10:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, remove that "glitch" and make an actual feature that is balanced and user friendly with a new method 10:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's similar to the weak / strong debate, it's been in the game since the beginning, it can't be changed 10:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] No point discussing it further 10:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's too late 10:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] If we ever start new, be sure to bring it up 10:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] if we start new, itd probably have a lot changed 10:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1003938004903149619/unknown.png 10:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Also forcing it is a problem, as I said previously, would have plenty of complications 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] forcing it as in the physics thing? i agree, should be bindable with the "aim snap" but should be a way smaller angle 10:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] no physics change required, just an input assist 10:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] As in probably half the community uses outdated clients 10:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] proof? 10:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm a moderator, I eyeball clients quite often 10:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] Definitely not half, but a good chunk 10:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think deen made a graph of who uses which client 10:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ya 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] Also you'd literally have to force the client onto people, or have an antibot that is prone to false positives, and deen really hates false positives 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] no need to ban it globally, just ban it for top position ranks? 10:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] is it possible for teehistorian to see these values `+toggle cl_mouse_max_distance 2 VALUE1; +toggle inp_mousesens 1 VALUE2"`? 10:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] 🤷‍♂️ 10:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anyone knows good host services for tw server? 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] What do u mean by services? 10:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] For which location? 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] Like site that offer hosting 10:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ger, fre 10:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah there was a free site, i just dont remember the link ... 10:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh u want to pay, well ask deen i guess 10:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] It dont have to be free, just something good 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] kimsufi 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1003945316015419404/unknown.png 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] They have this locations 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] K i will check it thanks 10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] I recommend getting the 10 euro one. 10:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/1003945785509023744/unknown.png 10:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm sure you can find cheaper than this but ovheco is really cheap compared to its performance. 10:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Looks great thanks 11:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hetzner 11:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ddnet would defs be better without 90° bind or autohammer from freeze.. Now it's too late, but they feel like unintended cheats to a game that's very skill based. Doesn't fit 12:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] hmm, autohammer from freeze removed would get rid of that both double jump fly from freeze meta, that would be lovely xD 12:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] but i havent played the game when that was introduced, so I don't have the same feeling like u 12:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anyone got the mobile ddrace download link? 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] here is a reddit post about it https://www.reddit.com/r/ddnet/comments/mgg0ml/how_do_i_download_ddrace_to_the_phone/ 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ty 13:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] 90° bind worked since Vanilla Teeworlds. Autohammer was being used by pros spamming keys all the time (some even with automated tools) and it missing made the gameplay really inconsistent. Super annoying for speed running 13:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Not Keks have now pushed a new version of twgpu, now with the tilemap optimization, documentation and READMEs :) 13:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] the tilemap optimization seems to work really good btw, I'm curious how high the performance increase is that your tools will measure 13:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://gitlab.com/Patiga/twgpu 13:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm the docs seem to take a bit to generate 13:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] the tools are now also on crates.io https://crates.io/crates/twgpu-tools 13:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah, docs are up now https://docs.rs/twgpu/latest/twgpu/ 13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] heh, for the tilemap optimization I missed the edge case with parallax 0 groups not getting zoomed 13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes that doesn't change the fact it sucks. I know they exist since ever... Sadly 13:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] The bounding box or smtj else ? 13:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] bounding box 13:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ok will test later 13:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] thanks :) 13:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] ofc it also depends on the map, my selection is a bit random 13:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Patiga is https://mapview.patiga.eu/ up to date? I find it quite laggy 😅 13:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes it is, the performance in the browser isn't that great 13:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] which browser are you using, and which gpu do you have? 13:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] laptop gtx 1050, firefox ~ 20fps on lavender, 13:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] and just tested chrome, it's 40fps 13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah nvm it was using the integrated gpu 🙂 13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] but wtf I get 10fps on chrome on the nvidia gpu 13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] But I get better perfs on my webgl renderer so I guess it has to do with the cost of the wasm layer 14:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] my renderer does tilemaps very differently, that has a rather big performance impact 14:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah you prob solve the mipmapping issue I have and I don't want to fix 😆 14:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't actually have mipmaps yet ^^ 14:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] We can't remove it because people can just keep using old client. So everything that was already in official client is by definition allowed 14:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Patiga after zooming out too much I can't zoom in anymore 14:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh nice find 14:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] we could probably try to remove it if we came up with a plan 14:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. by gating new features behind "not having the possibility of this bind" 14:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] at some point, people would not longer want to use the old client, because the new one is a lot better 14:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] had to add a `+ 1` somewhere :oop: 14:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] That also wasnt my plan. But we talking about adding new cheats.. Once added we have to live them 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yeah, so we have to discuss and decide before implementing 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] or accept that we could remove features in the future, and also discuss that ^^ 14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] or put the feature behind a flag that is controlled by the server 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't get the fuss about the angle bind 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's obviously a gameplay improvement over not having it 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's also not really well integrated into the client, you need to look at out-of-game resources to find it 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess it's the combination of these two? 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] No, the concern is u do things which are unrealistic 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] you can do* 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Since its there u are basically forced to use it to keep up in skill 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] I thought that this was a question, my bad 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] And that sucks 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Where? When? Why forced to use it? 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Bcs speedrunners abuse it hard 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] And u nevef as good in aiming 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Where? When? 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Jupstar feels like people play better in some ways when using the angle bind 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] U want to tell me u can aim up 100% of time? 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] probably e.g. when double rocketjumping ^^ 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] You can't do that without a bind? 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I probably can't do that without the bind (haven't used the bind so far) 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] the 100% of the time, straight up 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's perhaps more that the bind guarantees a higher success rate? 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] aiming up perfectly in 1 ms in unrealistic without the bind 😄 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] The bind is just a convenient way to aim up in a straight line, nothing else 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you aim abit to the left or right, you adjust by moving 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] you don't think that the makes it easier to aim straight up? 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] you don't think that the bind makes it easier to aim straight up? 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] It does, but Jupstar says people are literally forced to use it 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] and other people aswell 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] he did not say literally 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] he also added a condition 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet]