00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> ok
00:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> I can't reproduce, like with most issues
00:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Dr.Funmanteddy> Is there a way for pvp modes to not allow certain resolutions so that people with ultra wide monitors don't get zoom hack?
00:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> ultra wide monitors don't help you
00:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> open editor and view the proof box, that's how far you can see, no further
01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Dr.Funmanteddy> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565178453893316608/900767258903736371/wat1.demo.mp4
01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Dr.Funmanteddy> whats up with this
01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> That's zoomed out
01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Dr.Funmanteddy> is this only in demo?
01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> You can't zoom out in pvp ingame
01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> only when spectating
01:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Dr.Funmanteddy> ok nice it was my assumption it was because of his monitor
08:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <TacTic> @bye-bye ok thanks for your help
08:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> does the tee look wide on ultra wide?
08:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkalaugh:
11:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @deen can u add word-wrap: break-word;
11:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> to .dlfiles ul {}
11:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> 👀
11:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/924965405011873822/unknown.png
11:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> vs
11:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/924965434556567612/unknown.png
11:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think its missing a whitespace too
11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> there was a random } that had no match xd
11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @deen there is still a random } there
11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> in the css
11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-web/blob/master/www/css.css#L794
11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> that opens in line 691
11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> oh
11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> maybe format it a bit xd
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> windows build is failing
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> Error: fatal: unable to access 'https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/': OpenSSL SSL_connect: Connection was reset in connection to github.com:443 
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki>   Error: The process 'C:\Program Files\Git\bin\git.exe' failed with exit code 128
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> <https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/runs/4641202966?check_suite_focus=true>
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i hecking love windows
11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkalaugh:
11:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> same happened on ubuntu build. it's probably a github or central run problem
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/4475
11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> swap in team 0 will never be good
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u can get rannks with time 0
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> since times are not syncronized as in within a team
11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> even if it adds some time
11:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> How can you get time 0? It should swap your times too
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> (I hope)
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> thats not how it works rn
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think it was coded in mind that ur in a team
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> and have the same time
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> iirc
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> can you check?
11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> but as long as we switch the times, it should be fine, right?
11:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It should be fine indeed
11:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but its a bit weird
11:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> to swap times
11:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> it makes sense to prevent a cheat like big time skip
11:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but it wouldnt in a part where you are near
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> cuz u would get the 300 min time from a afker
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> well u can always swap back
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> if other agrees
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> <https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/src/game/server/teams.cpp#L834>
11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think code is here
11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ye it should change the time
11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> the idea is to make it the same as swapping with timeout, which is already possible
11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ok
11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> so we have no further risk than we always had with /timeout
11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> im fine with it if it doesnt allow the 0' times
11:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> it just makes the /timeout swapping less awkward by providing it ingame instead of having to hard-kill your client etc
11:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> it also removes the risk of timeout not properly working, I saw someone just disconnect normally trying to timeout 😄
11:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkalaugh:
12:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think they are not shown on the current version
12:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> only on older
12:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ah
12:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> probs make sense since they dont exist
13:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I installed a shady chinese android emulator
13:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If I randomly start writing things in chinese, ban me
13:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> 好的，我会做。
13:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> oh god, it's starting
13:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> For some reason all the high performance android emulators seem to be made by chinese people and only in chinese
13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> 👀
13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> are you doubting the superior chinese engineering
13:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> No, pls don't rat me out to mr xi. I mean no disrespect
13:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> :thonk:
13:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I have a theory. I think it's because mobile gaming is really popular in china, so it makes sense they make emulators capable of running games
13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> What emulators are we talking about
13:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> I'm curious
13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> MuMu is the one I tried, it performs far better than the qemu based android emulator I had
13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Oh android emulator
13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> I thought you mean emulators on android
13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> :kek:
13:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Ye, we do have lots of those
13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> idk what kind of sorcery they employ tbf, doesn't even require VT-X on the cpu somehow
13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> I think they all need to be licensed by most of the bigger chinese mobile games too. Which is a werid situation.
13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> If you don't pay up these games blocks that emulator i think
13:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> :kek:
13:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Chinese market is wack
13:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I wonder if it is some sort of JVM implementation
13:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> This explains how these companies seem to be okay with their games running on emulated hardware
13:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Btw, i don't know about mumu, but you can find virtualbox's executables in a lot of these emulators
13:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Hard for me to dig around this because everything is in chinese 😄
13:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Even so, they split servers between actual mobile users and emulator users
13:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Well not all games, gacha games seem to be fine with people mixing
13:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If there is pvp however, yeah it seems that they do split
13:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Probably because they don't have gameplay:kek:
13:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Ofc they have gameplay, it's just insanely boring usually
13:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Only exception is genshin impact
13:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Genshin impact is weird in china. People either love it so much or hate it immensely
13:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Well it's aggressively weeb, that's how such things are treated outside of japan 😛
13:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> fair enough
13:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If only that game didn't have the weird gacha business model
13:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> Reverse engineer it and make a private server👀
13:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Great story, great art, great music, decent gameplay, absolutely awful game balance because they don't care if characters are balanced or not
13:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> They only care if characters sell, which means if they look and sound cute they ship it
13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Mihoyo would sue me to high heaven, chinese companies are ruthless with IP
13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> :thonk: we aren't Japanese tho
13:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> True, atleast it's not japanese 😄
13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <timakro> Question\: Does your isps block incoming connections? I wonder if this is a common thing for isps to do. My dormitory just started blocking every port incoming (yes every room has their own static ip which is awesome).
13:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <timakro> Question\: Does your isp block incoming connections? I wonder if this is a common thing for isps to do. My dormitory just started blocking every port incoming (yes every room has their own static ip which is awesome).
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> How does that work?
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Only traffic allowed on established ports?
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> ~~Our isp blocks half of the internet~~
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <timakro> heh
13:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It's for your own safety
14:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <timakro> Yeah only established ports, idk how it determines it exactly especially for connectionless protocols but it's a common feature every router supports
14:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> But ye, idk how would blocking incoming connection works
14:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Well I've only seen it blocked when I was behind NAT, and that you can punch through easily
14:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ts懒散> I know isps that just drop every udp packets
14:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <timakro> My backup was relying on the fact that my backup server here at home has a static ip and devices could always backup to it even if they were on some random wifi anywhere so that broke now
14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> timakro: Maybe you could poke through it the same way we poke through NAT?
14:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> wireguard does persistent keepalives, maybe you could try that
14:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Hm, though it needs to be the server that starts the communication, so that probably won't work too well
14:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <I.K.U> why is there no option to set maximum ping
14:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <I.K.U> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/925024809203683368/unknown.png
15:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I think we removed the UI option for it because it was just not very useful with the new browser that lacks pings
15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <I.K.U> kinda annoying
15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <I.K.U> but i guess i can use the eu and rus countries
15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I think we still should have it as a console option for the people that use the leak ips option
15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/925025667958067280/Screenshot_2021-12-27_at_17.01.10.png
15:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Maybe try checking the options that start with `br+
15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> `br_`
15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Robyt3> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/925029977123061790/unknown.png
16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Izanagi> can you add a feature that shows direction input from other players at all times?
16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Izanagi> so i can actually see what someone is pressing when in freeze
20:18 < keks_> @noby your bot detection had a false positive (^pDetektiv Keks), if you need the demo or smth just contact oreo
20:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :think_bot:
21:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> how can i use the cl_run_on_join
21:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> (for multiple command like go on team 2 join a dummy make him join too and after lock)
21:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Mh, you can't really do that
21:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> does ddnet support | ??
21:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Souly> i wish we could :feelsbadman:
21:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> there is nothing could do and or & or | ??
21:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> You can do ;
21:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> But the problem is you cant execute client commands, so you cant get dummy to join automatically
21:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> And there are no delays so lock would happen before dummy joins
21:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <bencie> if you want the next best solution is to make a config that does that on a key
22:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> yeah
22:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <bencie> i actually wanted to make fthat for myself so if you want i can make it and send it to you
22:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> can i put time in cmd ??
22:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> if you can i would like you tto send it to me
22:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> No timing in console
22:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <bencie> yeah ill make it real quick
22:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <chillerdragon> @Robyt3\: could https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/4536 fix my occasional delta unpack fails? Or tees flying up for a few seconds?
22:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> which social media is good
22:48 <+ChillerDragon> github
22:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> none
22:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> irc
22:48 <+ChillerDragon> how is irc social media? :D
22:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> anything used to communicate is a social media
22:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> by definition of social and media
22:49 <+ChillerDragon> okey
22:49 <+ChillerDragon> what about hooman voice?
22:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> thats overrated
22:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Robyt3> not sure what the undefined behavior ends up happening on integer overflow, but unless you are packing and unpacking invalid data, I don't think it will affect your bug
22:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> can you give its link
22:50 <+ChillerDragon> real life link?
22:50 <+ChillerDragon> try knock ur neighbours door and yell at them thats social
22:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> xd
22:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> okey
22:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> depends if you are a normal human then https://libera.chat/ if you are a weeb then https://www.rizon.net/
22:51 <+ChillerDragon> @Robyt3 hm oke i still blame my network but heinrich said it shouldnt happen. And the flying tees idk first i thought its kog then i thought its my hax client not sure yet
22:51 <+ChillerDragon> UwU
22:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> thank you
22:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> (@Ryozuki)
22:52 <+ChillerDragon> imo github is most underrated social media
22:52 <+ChillerDragon> its so fun to comment on random commits
22:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> lmao
22:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> on github i wrote "degraded person"
22:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> instead of degraded perfomance
22:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
22:53 <+ChillerDragon> oof
22:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Um, irc isn't really social media, is it?
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> thats what i said
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> imo social media is about public postings 
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> not just live chats
22:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Social media for open source nerds would be mastodon
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> ye
22:54 <+ChillerDragon> but does anyone use that?
22:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is a text-based chat (instant messaging) system. IRC is designed for group communication in discussion forums, called channels,[1] but also allows one-on-one communication via private messages[2] as well as chat and data transfer,[3] including file sharing.[4]
22:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think it is social media
22:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> the OG
22:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> how can we connect chat with phonr
22:56 <+ChillerDragon> whats phonr
22:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> phone
22:56 <+ChillerDragon> which chat
22:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skurt NapeZ> how do you open the discord interface with a bot ??
22:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> irc
22:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://xkcd.com/1652/
22:56 <+ChillerDragon> what os runs ur phone?
22:57 <+ChillerDragon> i did not find a neat irc client for iOS yet
22:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> samsung
22:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> android
22:57 <+ChillerDragon> idk baut android either
22:57 <+ChillerDragon> just search irc client in your fav app repo
22:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> the best way to enjoy irc is first by installing any sort of chad linux distro such as arch linux, gentoo, then proceed to open ur terminal, install irssi or weechat and connect
22:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> okey
22:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> i will try
22:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <zmymw> thank you
22:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkaS:
22:58 <+ChillerDragon> weechat on my phone sucks tho
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> on a 144hz screen
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> feels better when the text moves
22:59 <+ChillerDragon> ..
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> hm, the android irc clients are actually pretty sad ngl
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i use revolution irc
22:59 <+ChillerDragon> just use the twitch app
22:59 <+ChillerDragon> ... its irc :brain:
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I used yaaic for a while, but I just don't use irc much on phone anymore
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ye i dont even open it
22:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i dont have friends there
23:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :feelsbadman:
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> :c
23:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i was once in a cool niche irc
23:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but it closed
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> oodnet masterrace
23:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> oodnet feels a bit like a circlejerk of shorefire and friends
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> xd
23:00 <+ChillerDragon> did they move to libera btw?
23:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ye
23:01 <+ChillerDragon> just realized i am still left alone there xd
23:01 <+ChillerDragon> i barley check irc these days
23:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
23:01 <+ChillerDragon> i got sucked into matrix's electron hell
23:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i rly dislike it
23:01 <+ChillerDragon> but it runs on my phone -,-
23:02 <+ChillerDragon> and it can do images
23:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u can use OTR if u want to send ur privat sex texts on irc
23:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-Record_Messaging>
23:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkalaugh:
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> oodnet is cool computer stuff + me ranting about not having an ounce of serotonin left in my brain
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
23:03 <+ChillerDragon> u have a brain?
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 "cool computer stuff" aka C addicts who think doing everything in c is the epitome of software dev
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> and the cool dev club
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
23:03 <+ChillerDragon> i dont get OTR
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> sry tbh this is just my impression from overlooking it
23:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> its prob more than that xd
23:04 <+ChillerDragon> does anyone use OTR?
23:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i did once
23:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> it autodetects
23:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> if another has otr support
23:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> well aerx uses haskell a lot, muriii has his own lua like language and there was that one guy who was making a machine coding helper tool
23:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> tho they kicked the last guy because he was also a raging transphobe
23:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkaS:
23:04 <+ChillerDragon> so otr is just about encryption and one slaps it on top of a messaging app? liek pgp?
23:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> did they change the website?
23:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i remember some kind of skull before
23:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> it was cool
23:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i need to find my irc rust circlejerk
23:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> kinda
23:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> Off-the-Record Messaging (OTR) is a cryptographic protocol that provides encryption for instant messaging conversations. OTR uses a combination of AES symmetric-key algorithm with 128 bits key length, the Diffie–Hellman key exchange with 1536 bits group size, and the SHA-1 hash function. In addition to authentication and encryption, OTR provides forward secrecy and malleable encryption.
23:06 <+ChillerDragon> ye red that
23:06 <+ChillerDragon> so when encrypt tw? -.-
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> it would be cool to do that in tw
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> its prob possible
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u dont even need server side support
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but mayebe the character limit fucks it a bit
23:07 <+ChillerDragon> make ddnet to ddnet client whisper secure -.-
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> maybe*
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I was coding an OTR lib, but OTR for groups is actually not that easy to set up, especially when the group participants can change
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> maybe one would do the signal encryption these days
23:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> for IM encryption
23:08 <+ChillerDragon> signal encryption for tw chat? :D
23:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> ChillerDragon: a lot easier said than done. do you use any encrypted messengers? 😉
23:08 <+ChillerDragon> use?
23:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I was going to name it libsrsotr
23:08 <+ChillerDragon> wdym
23:09 <+ChillerDragon> isnt it using some crypto lib and slap it in ddnet code base?
23:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> if slapping coded we could probably get some monkeys to do it
23:10 <+ChillerDragon> ay weechat has a otr plugin \o/
23:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> ChillerDragon: what encrypted messenger do you use?
23:11 <+ChillerDragon> are you trying to embarasse me by not knowing which of my messengers are not encrypted? :D
23:11 <+ChillerDragon> i use wire and signal if i have to
23:11 <+ChillerDragon> think matrix does some crypto too sometimes
23:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> no, I'm trying to embarrass you by checking whether you would've detected a server MITM or no
23:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> t
23:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> did you verify your contact keys for any contact?
23:12 <+ChillerDragon> uhm wat?
23:12 <+ChillerDragon> oh you mean in person?
23:12 <+ChillerDragon> or like over another connection
23:12 <+ChillerDragon> like a pgp party? :D
23:12 <+ChillerDragon> no i didnt
23:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> over another connection fine, I guess
23:13 <+ChillerDragon> yea
23:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> sounds good 🙂
23:13 <+ChillerDragon> see?
23:13 <+ChillerDragon> i didnt and all worked
23:13 <+ChillerDragon> so make it the same in ddnet xd
23:13 <+ChillerDragon> hehe
23:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> hm?
23:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> you didn't? then you can't tell whether the server MITMed you
23:14 <+ChillerDragon> -.-
23:14 <+ChillerDragon> oke
23:14 <+ChillerDragon> so you want to go extra safe
23:14 <+ChillerDragon> even then can't that be done easily?
23:15 <+ChillerDragon> can't we add trusted authorities like ddnet servers to authenticate ?
23:16 <+ChillerDragon> i assume your point is that the decrentalized nature of teeworlds has plenty of fishy servers which could try to MITM
23:17 <+ChillerDragon> If i would not trust signal or wire with their official servers id also have to audit every line of code and selfcompile.
23:18 <+ChillerDragon> same goes for ddnet. If there can be some trusted ddnet server helping against MITM even on other servers that would work wouldn't it?
23:18 <+ChillerDragon> isn't that how the web works? someone decided to trust a bunch of root CAs and then boom SSL for all
23:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Well, very technically as soon as you have a public key for the person you are sending messages to there is no other security issue
23:19 <+ChillerDragon> but imo it would be best to not confuse the user with keys and signatures and shit. Also not make them think they can now sell drugs in tw chat.
23:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> So the hard part of the issue is finding a way to get public keys to people and let them verify that the key belongs to the person they are trying to communicate
23:20 <+ChillerDragon> Just do some basic crypto so not everyone in starbucks can read my tw chats with a basic tcpdump
23:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> For socially challanged people like the ones in here it's not that difficult, but the system needs to be designed for your grandma to be able to use. So it's not that easy 😄
23:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> ah, transport encryption is doable ChillerDragon
23:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> just e2e is not so easy
23:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I did start implementing something similar to TLS for teeworlds but heinrich told me he'd slap me if I did my own crypto
23:21 <+ChillerDragon> ye gimme something
23:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ye doing ur own crypto is bad
23:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I didn't feel like wrapping the entirety of teeworlds protocol in overhead, and he didn't let me make my own, so I just simply dropped the idea
23:22 <+ChillerDragon> rude heinrich
23:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cryptographic_attacks
23:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u need to protecc
23:23 <+ChillerDragon> I might get it all wrong and broken crypto is worse than none
23:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> is it?
23:24 <+ChillerDragon> but i feel like there is a hugh difference between plain text and something that requires to be attacked
23:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> when u have the "confidence" that it is "secure" u may say stuff that u wouldnt on a channel you know is insecure
23:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> thats why its bad
23:24 <+ChillerDragon> yes
23:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Not really, crypto broken in some slight way is not that easy to figure out how to break
23:24 <+ChillerDragon> but what if we tell nobody that it has crypto
23:24 <+ChillerDragon> :D
23:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I might not be a cryptonerd but I'm not deficient in braincells
23:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> new icons poggers
23:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> sadly github doesnt show em
23:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> oh u need rich diff
23:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> How badly do you think I'd design the protocol? Not like I was considering sending the encryption key in plaintext 😄
23:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/925152497780289586/unknown.png
23:26 <+ChillerDragon> nah my point is currently it is plain text. And heinrichs argument seems to be we do not do crypto because there could be MITM
23:26 <+ChillerDragon> just give me MITM crypto then better than plaintext
23:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> like doing rsa as is without aes
23:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkalaugh:
23:27 <+ChillerDragon> there is no way to know who the other parties are in tw chat anyways there are no accounts and fake names
23:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Nah, his argument was that doing e2e is hard, since we were talking about OTR, which is about E2E
23:27 <+ChillerDragon> ah ye ok
23:27 <+ChillerDragon> i talk about some crypto in general
23:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u got some btc?
23:28 <+ChillerDragon> also like not sending the rcon pw in plain text
23:28 <+ChillerDragon> i got some btc
23:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Transport encryption is as he said much easier, I even started implementing it but I was the only one interested in doing it and I wasn't interested in wrapping the entire protocol in TLS
23:29 <+ChillerDragon> why ryo?
23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> we need post quantum encryption
23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> so google cant know
23:30 <+ChillerDragon> u high?
23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography
23:30 <+ChillerDragon> i doubt google has dumps of my tw traffic
23:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I don't really like doing homebrew protocol/crypto stuff where not necessary
23:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> standard crypto also has instant wireshark support
23:32 <+ChillerDragon> how much standard crypto is there other than TLS?
23:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> there's dTLS and quic right now AFAIK
23:32 <+ChillerDragon> oh i think i heard quic
23:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> (both use some form of TLS)
23:32 <+ChillerDragon> yea
23:33 <+ChillerDragon> so wrap it all in TLS?
23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> in quic
23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> it is far more work to do either of those that encompass the entire protocol, which is why we don't have it at all
23:33 <+ChillerDragon> yea sounds nasty
23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://github.com/microsoft/msquic
23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :monkalaugh:
23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> lets trust m$$
23:33 <+ChillerDragon> :D
23:34 <+ChillerDragon> wow its c
23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it's mostly the backward compatibility and secure detection that's hard
23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> but that needs to be done in both cases
23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> quiche has a very simple C api
23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I was just going to establish a small portion of netmsgs that should never be in plaintext and do those encrypted
23:34 <+ChillerDragon> I WANT MY HOOK PACKETS TO BE ENRYPTED !
23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> While not completely secure, it would work against any attack one would care about
23:34 <+ChillerDragon> enrypted xd
23:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I think I explained why I think this is insecure against reverse MITM
23:35 <+ChillerDragon> the network sniffer replay attack to steal runs!
23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> also I think we did some benchmarks on turkey servers to see that the crypto overhead is not big (re performance of encrypting everything)
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> ?
23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> it won't ever let an attacker execute a rcon command nor will it allow them to read messages
23:36 <+ChillerDragon> wat benchmarks
23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it lets people race under other accounts, i.e. botting on other people's accounts
23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Yeah performance of encrypting everything would be fine, but I don't see anyone that'll work on it within this decade, I'd have finished that thing within a month or two as I even had the time back then
23:37 <+ChillerDragon> ??
23:37 <+ChillerDragon> im confused
23:38 <+ChillerDragon> ye prio 0.7 clients :D
23:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Summary: You aren't getting any encryption until someone has the time to wrap the entire protocol in dTLS or QUIC