00:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <PerfeCtion> i also want things like in ath. I have the zoom but it doesnt show players all over the map
00:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <PerfeCtion> also superdynamic hides players
00:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> newest ddnet shows all players that are in your view range at all zoom levels
00:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> like dyncam but further?, that would e.g. be a cheat
00:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> generally zoom is a cheat in basically everything not ddrace based
00:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <plsplsplslol> :nobythinking:
00:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fahh> :nobythinking:
00:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fahh> :think_bot:
07:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> is there a recommended ddnet base version for modding?
08:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i would also like to know
08:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Astramast> Cool bug : when u have show others DDnet settings activated and u write /specteam, when u /pause u dont see anyone even ppl in ur own team :D
09:22 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @TsFreddie @lynn use the newest version, I'd say
09:24 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> :justatest: apparently modding standards back in ddnet is more difficult than i thought.
09:24 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> and even better: don't just copy our ddnet code, but make a fork and regularly merge new hex development into your mod
09:24 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> and even better: don't just copy our ddnet code, but make a fork and regularly merge new ddnet development into your mod
09:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> :ww:
09:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> some people just make a copy and then never update their mod based on new ddnet changes anymore
09:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> if you regularly merge ddnet in again you get all the improvements being done upstream
09:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> kough kough
09:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :yoo:
09:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> :feelsbadman:
09:26 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @TsFreddie r u planning on making a mod?
09:26 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> one thing is that if ur mod doesnt use many features of race u will end up removing lot of code
09:27 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> ye, i'm kinda doing that rn.
09:28 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> it's like choosing between modding part of ddnet's protocol into teeworlds or modding teeworlds back into ddnet.
09:29 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> :kek: i was actually planning to hookup libtw2 from nodejs, but i gave that up really quickly
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i always want to make the server in rust but its 2 much work and i just laze around
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but actually make the sv in a rusty way
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> ouch 😄
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> oof
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> and no unsafe
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @ libtw2 from nodejs
09:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> why nodejs
09:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> does libtw2 compile to wasm
09:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> presumably because that's a language @TsFreddie is coofortable with? 😉
09:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> ye, i do almost everything now in typescript
09:33 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> there's a library that called neon that can call rust code. but i kinda don't know where to start with rust binding.
09:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <nori> is official ddnet clienta build with websocket support, and is official servers are using it?
09:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> there is also assemblyscript which is a typescript look-a-like that compiles to wasm. but it's wasi binding doesn't have sockets yet. so i can't code the server part entirely in wasm so meh.
09:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> there was some progress but the websocket server made clients crash iirc
09:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> there is also assemblyscript which is a typescript look-a-like that compiles to wasm. but its wasi binding doesn't have sockets yet. so i can't code the server part entirely in wasm so meh.
09:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ah ye it made clients freeze or smth at the server list iirc
09:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> atleast for me
09:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> i can probably also just grab ddnet's c++ code and make a nodejs's napi library.
09:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> non of those easy tho
09:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <nori> so master list uses websocket then? optionally
09:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> no, master server doesn't support websockets, official servers don't have it enabled either
10:12 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Amou_Martîn> Do you need a turkish translator and a turkish moderator in your game?@heinrich5991
10:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> Moderator applications are possible on the ddnet forum (staff section), but I think we're not actively looking atm
10:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> turkish translation is at 88%, you can edit the file and send us an update: https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/data/languages/turkish.txt
10:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Amou_Martîn> Where should I send after I have flipped the untranslated places?
10:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> You can make a pull request on github, or just send me a DM with the file
10:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Amou_Martîn> okay
15:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> smone interested in updating the php scripts for the skin database on the website?
15:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> it needs a sync function or smth that is called, when a skin is added, removed, whatever
15:11 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> for the community tab
15:14 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> deen would also be nice ddnet would merge more upstream too :)
15:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> Code is in https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet-web/tree/master/www/skins , we use it straight from there
15:15 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> chillerdragon[m]: I knew you'd say that. Unfortunately 0.7 brought some changes we didn't want, so we only selectively cherry-picked fixes/changes
15:16 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> Yea sure 0.7 is tricky
15:16 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> what even was in ur mind?
15:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> the skin system?
15:17 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> I mean more the small non ddrace improvements that happend over the years. Like more auto mapper features for example.
15:17 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> Sure, would accept them
15:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> I think the problem is, ppl like Lea, who would be interested in this, are probably more interested in rewritting it completly xD
15:18 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> accpet? :D I mean propose those to the upstream instead of keeping them in ddnet
15:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> u want more ddnet in 0.7?
15:19 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> i want more ddnet in upstream yes
15:19 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> same as deen wants more ddnet downstream in ddnet
15:19 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> There are a few things ddnet client/server have that are nice and non 0.6/0.7 related and not ddrace related.
15:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> vanilla doesnt want c++11 tho, and ddnet shifts to it slowly
15:20 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> Yea I noticed
15:20 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> same with STL
15:32 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> @QshaR any idea why KoG server keeps reconnecting me? Happend 3 times in a row after a few minutes.
15:42 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> hmm ddnet client seems to work is this some sort of custom client trolling? :/
16:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> [3:51 PM] Patiga: Chillerdragon asks why his client (chillerbot/chillerbot-ux) is being blocked, he can't connect to a kog server with it
16:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> could that please get fixed?
16:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> [3:51 PM] Avolicious: Maybe bots inside the client?
16:04 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> none activated
16:04 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> there is a bot that walks right and left but its not on
16:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I guess the client is banned if features that are considered cheats are built in
16:08 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> i doubt the client is known and it is considered cheats
16:09 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> works fine on ddnet maybe its the custom client info thing i send
16:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> unlikely, unknown messages are ignored
16:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> kog is more aggressive about kicking bots
16:09 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> u know kog?
16:10 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> well i cant think of much else that would identify the client
16:15 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> i am fine on ddnet servers since 8 minutes now so seems to be kog only
16:16 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> sorry for abusing this bridge but i have no other way to contact kog :/
16:18 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> (I'm done relaying messages. I don't see how this is resolved without much back and forth before you remove the thing you said might be a cheat)
16:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> lol kog banned me for a legit client and called it a botclient so i mean i wouldnt expect much from them
16:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> just play on ddnet client there or dont send custom client info maybe
16:21 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> i'd be wary about testing bots there tho
16:22 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> @heinrich5991 i can activate thing that defends me from afk blockers and tries to hold x position by walking left and right. There is no way this is detectable when off at all times.
16:23 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> but sure yea relaying messages is annoying kog needs a bridge
16:23 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> @louis ddnet client lacks some features like auto greet and auto login i really start to like :)
16:23 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I'm not saying that this specific feature is detected
16:24 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> its the most fishy thing about the client
16:24 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> but saying that kog might consider your client a cheat client and therefore sees little reason to help you join their servers
16:24 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> ah ye i see
16:24 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> ye i had a ping fake client + version number changer and got banned just for that xd
16:24 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> thats a bit fishier than mine tho :D
16:24 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> but still no reason for a ban imo
16:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> doesn't sound too bad @louis if they don't want that stuff on kog
16:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> i mean it does nothing gameplay wise
16:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> so what? maybe they have a different attitude to client mods than ddnet rules ^^
16:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> yeah which is bad imo
16:25 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> i don't like their anticheat at all
16:26 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> ddnet rules are fucked too ;D
16:26 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> why are there no anarchy gores or ddrace servers? :/
16:26 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> host one
16:26 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> anarchy ddrace is just block btw
16:26 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> most block servers have bad race
16:28 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> yea anways i would love to give this a try @qshar hope i can ping u :/ this is my client https://github.com/chillerbot/chillerbot-ux if there is something illegal in it please tell me
17:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Astramast> where is the Controls button that put deepfly ? ;-;
17:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it's gone. it was buggy
17:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Astramast> i never had problem with it ;-;
17:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Astramast> well can u tell me what was the 2 cmds then ?
17:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I don't know, sorry
17:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Astramast> D';
17:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <deen> https://forum.ddnet.tw/viewtopic.php?t=2537
17:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> its so fast :wtf:
17:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> Guess kog needs some compability xd, only sohws 16 players per server
17:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> bruh
17:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> @heinrich5991 does anything change for the server?
17:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> Fwiw I’d want to get all the way to C++17 if not for some older distros
17:54 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> maybe my client is bugged i also get random reconnects on ur server @fokkonaut :/
17:54 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> wat did i do .-.
17:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @fokkonaut for now, not
17:59 <+bridge_> [freenode] <chillerdragon[m]> probably broke my client sowwy for blaming u qshar :D
17:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> something will change in the future, so that one will be less vulnerable against serverinfo request spoofing
18:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i want c++20
18:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> 20 not even most compilers are ready for, but I would love it too
18:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> clang acutally compiles a bit faster just bcs of auto module includes
18:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> Concepts are so cute
18:02 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> Modules are also nice tho our codebase is pretty small to benefit from them
18:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> tru
18:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> It might allow us to include massive libraries if we need tho,
18:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> does that mean vanilla is more dead now.
18:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> no. backward compatibility will be retained
18:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> but for those who like their servers to not get attacked, will have to change a bit
18:03 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> I’m really excited to see how you pull this one off 😛
18:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> wdym? the server list in the PR functions rn
18:04 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it's the backward compatibility that will be retained
18:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> Ah you mean a different thing
18:05 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> Nvm me, too tired
18:06 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @TsFreddie wdym on "feedback on the TODOs"?
18:06 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I'm aware of the things I explictily marked as TODO. if there are more things to do, please do mention them
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> Where was that again?
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> in the code 😄
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> ctrl-f TODO
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i asked
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> :justatest:
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> I'm on mi phone rn
18:07 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> sorry, @Jupstar ✪ ^^
18:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> well if the todos are in the code ok
18:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> Oh
18:08 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> didnt look at it yet 😄
18:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> feel free to comment any concerns you have if you don't want to look into the code @Jupstar ✪
18:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> I thought I did something dumb way back.
18:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <TsFreddie> :kek:
18:09 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i mean like, e.g. player sorting and stuff like that
18:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> ah sure, comment that 🙂
18:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i mean i only used it for like 10seconds yet xD
18:10 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> dunno if you checked all functionality yet or just imeplemented it
21:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> how does it interact with the server then?
21:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Learath2> a backend server querying servers
21:14 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> ahhh, okay
21:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Chairn> does map name in downloadedmaps folder need only sha256 or both crc32 and sha256 for ddnet server?
21:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> only first
21:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> since a few versions
21:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Chairn> making a script to clean up a little bit as i got some maps in double due to this ^_^
21:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Chairn> ^^
22:01 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i think heinrich posted one here once
22:11 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Chairn> im doing symlink to get both version at the same time but on windows, so i guess its a lil bit different
22:13 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> @heinrich5991 no Serverinfo token?? :/
22:19 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> wdym @fokkonaut
22:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> Does this also fix serverinfo packet spam?
22:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> it reduces the amount of legit packets atleast
23:28 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Yeah, seen that behaviour, kinda strange but will be fixed soon
23:29 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Whats bad about banning bots? 😄
23:29 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> its not bot
23:29 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> at least my client wasnt
23:30 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Well, as this game is open source its hard to detect all kind of bots
23:31 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Everyone can modify DDNet & implement his/her own bot-system, this is why we're working on an aggressive anti-cheat
23:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> the antibot code that ive seen is naive, relying on things like version ids to detect bots
23:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> KoG is closed source
23:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> only allowing certain clients and having a super aggressive anti-cheat that bans even if there isn't proof of bots is really against the spirit of teeworlds imo
23:32 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> yea but im just saying, from what ive seen
23:33 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i dont doubt they use similar methods
23:33 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Just use the official DDNet/teeworlds client & you're fine
23:33 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i meant directly related to heinrichs https master server, and i assume its a missing feature on the script that generates the server list 😄
23:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Okay, I investigated already some time into debugging
23:34 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i agree, the game is mostly pretty lax about this sort of thing, and sure it can cause some issues with real malicious actors but i prefer that over the alternative, which is being naive
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Okay, I spend already some time into debugging
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> and its not like u cant fake ddnet/teeworlds client version and have bots as well
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> yeah but normal clients work fine, it might be just that the packet info changed or smth
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Okay, I spent already some time into debugging
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> ya i just think
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> as long as the game is open-source you cant have true bot detection
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> so its not directly Kog problem, more of the script that contacts kog servers
23:35 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> We detect them 🙂
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> well i appreciate the level of kog anticheat especially with replaybotters (ive seen a lot of replaybotters banned) but there are ways to improve
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> so trying to close-source stuff and add your own implementations for that is kind of meaningless and just a hinderance
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> and u dont know if u cant detect the ones that actually work
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> it makes me not want to support certain servers
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> like imo the spam click kog ban thing is rly bad
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> thats a place that could be improved
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> yup broso has been wrongly banned for it a few times
23:36 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Why do you need spam in gores?
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> You cant benefit from spamming around
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> There is no reason to jitter-click
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> well, dont NEED but if it happens accidentally you shouldn't get banned
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <plsplsplslol> idk but people complain very often
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> louis isn't arguing about its purpose
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <plsplsplslol> unless they are all lying i think its a problem
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> it happens sometimes
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Jitter-clicking gets banned rarely
23:37 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Only ~1 / 25 bans
23:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> im curious about the false positive rate, maybe it bans a lot of cheaters but u get autobanned for spamhooking while standing still / on a platform which doesn't make sense to detect as bot
23:38 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/4/14/1023
23:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> and plus, i agree you dont benefit from jitter click which is why it shouldnt be bannable lol, or at least not like the way it's implemented now
23:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @ChillerDragon :PepeA:
23:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 :PepeA:
23:39 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> ghost ping bout to make somebody act up
23:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Well, dont lets go too much into detail, its detecting more bots than false-positive
23:40 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> imo the way gores bans should work, is that suspicious replays should instead be stored to a special place for review, and a moderator of that server should review it
23:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> instead of just "i think you're cheating beep boop here's a ban"
23:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i dont think there are a million people using cheat clients in gores lol, more than manageable for a mod to review by hand
23:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Well, you need to have moderators for such taks
23:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> yeah well we do
23:41 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> people run kog
23:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> idk who but assuming they can spare 5 minutes to look at a replay every month or so
23:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> You've ever played gores?
23:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> of course
23:42 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i know what human gores gameplay looks like lol
23:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> normalized setups
23:43 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i actually think gores is easier to moderate in this way than ddrace, there's really no reason not to do it this way
23:44 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> ddrace is harder because certain techniques in ddrace are more nuanced in their execution and it would be easier to make a convincing bot client
23:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> @louis what are your thoughts on this?
23:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Okay, before we spam ddnet discord with a gores ( kog ) discussion, we could switch to KoG discord instead.
23:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> lol im not in that server, but im okay with stopping the conversatino
23:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> lol im not in that server, but im okay with stopping the conversation
23:45 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Gores isnt that easy to administrate as many of you currently think of. There are a lot of bots used in the past & currently being developed.
23:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> how many people are actively finishing maps that flag bot detection though
23:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> idk the replay thing would be great for kog and ddrace too but its hard to implement
23:46 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i mean, if you have logic for banning users you use that same logic for notifying a moderator
23:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> maybe we should just accept that there are botters everywhere and enjoy the game :justatest:
23:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> and you could probably pretty easily set up a bot that receives network requests with a finish db record and the name of a replay file
23:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Once more, maybe you missed the point. There has to be someone who activly reviews demo's.
23:47 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> and then also send a discord message
23:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i dont think that's an issue though, just imo
23:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Our team is not even of half the size of DDNet 😄
23:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i dont really know how often bans happen but i doubt it's too much to personally review
23:48 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> cant say the same for ddrace
23:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> people who successfully dodge bot protection and finish maps still get caught in a similar way with ddrace, correct? @louis
23:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> if they get rank 1 for example and it's way ahead of anyone
23:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> :justatest:
23:50 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i feel like i have seen posts about finishes getting removed that were determined to be cheated
23:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> idk if im allowed to talk about bot detection on ddnet also idek how it works but yes teehistorian allows for some post-rank processing
23:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> its more about abusing bugs in this case
23:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> but yeah, there were also cases for replay bots in the past
23:51 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> and those were decisions the moderators made right?
23:52 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> how often did that sort of thing happen?
23:52 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> its not really moderators
23:52 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> its more like, somehow there was some inconsistency, and then the admins investigated
23:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> i see
23:53 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> but ddnet also has a direct bot protection as far as i know
23:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> are detected bots banned immediately or marked for review?
23:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> guess directly
23:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> alright
23:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> well
23:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> there is veeery weak instant bot detection
23:54 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> i.e. client vers check
23:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> doesnt instaban for aimbot or anything like that
23:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> ddnet has a closed source anti bot tho
23:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> we dont really know what they can detect
23:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> ye i believe that isn't instant tho
23:55 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> maybe it is but ive never seen someone get banned instantly for anything other than bad client
23:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> ok in that case i think this can be applied to the kog conversations
23:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> where determination is only instantly made if there's a good chance it's a bot client, instead of just a guess
23:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ama> I know how to stop bots on kog
23:56 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ama> Its pretty easy
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> anyone know if kog / ddnet has more of a cheating problem?
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> teeworlds has xD
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> lol
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> 200% of block community
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Teeworlds yep
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> that i can agree with
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> fng too 🙂
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ama> Delete kog tab from ddnet client and there will be No players haha
23:57 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> LOL
23:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i've them under favorites still xd
23:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Ama> But most players wont 🤣
23:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> is it a sensitive topic to ask why ddnet hosts custom modes but not gores-specific maps?
23:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> with https master server, it will be nice to use internet tab again
23:58 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> like why kog is the only real main one
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> XDDDD
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> now the war can begin
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Maybe because KoG is based upon racing like dd**race**?
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> is it... dare i say... an argumentative topic????
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> And DDNet was made for the racing mode
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <lynn> down with big ddnet
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <Avolicious> Well, you could use teeworlds vanilla client 🙂
23:59 <+bridge_> [ddnet] <louis> ddrace doesnt host gores cuz kog exists also its kinda boring