14:33 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> I want it to be the future
14:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Too complicated to be the future
14:59 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> it's gotten better
15:00 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> I don't know how it works but it mostly does
15:00 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> Sometimes it asks me for a passphrase and I don't know which one exactly I think there is a masterpass and a keyfile and other crypto things or something but I mostly ignore it and it just works
15:01 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> So yes it's complicated but you can mostly ignore the weird crypto things it wants from you and it will somehow keep working
15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> The concept is too hard for the layman to grasp. It can only be the future if they could hide all the aspects of it that make it pleasing to us computerppl. The average user of chat applications only care that their cat pictures get from A to B and the UI looks sleek
15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> When you start to tell them about decentralization and crypto and privacy it gets scary
15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Even more scary for people that have half-assed knowledge. My math teacher told me people that contribute to privacy oriented projects or use them are completely immoral as it facilitates terrorism and drug trafficking
15:04 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> The government needs to advertise for decentralization and crypto like they did against smoking and people will do what their told
15:05 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> they're*
15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Sure but why would they? It’s actually bad for them as they are in the business of controlling people. If people communicate on decentralized networks in an encrypted way how are they supposed to control the narrative? 😛
15:06 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> TV? xDDD
15:06 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> Nah you're right
15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If it happens anywhere it’ll be the EU tho. It’s the most citizen oriented organization of politics so far
15:09 <+bridge> [freenode] <timakro[m]> Let the pirate party take over
15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> 🏴‍☠️
16:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> "Citizen oriented" may be the most loaded term I've ever heard. Especially when different citizens want different things :)
16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Like how US presidents from both sides always say they are "for the people" when they only represent the interests of ~50% of Americans every 4 years. The bigger the organization, the bigger this problem becomes. This is an argument for small groups governing themselves with their own liberties and responsibilities, aka libertarianism. This line of thinking is not in line with the EU, although being part of the EU does have some nifty benefi
16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> So a political organization can be “citizen oriented” if it tries to satisfy most of the people. It’s not very loaded, it’s just hiding away the concept of democracy.
16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Big government bad is the most neo-lib thing I’ve heard in a decade. Are you going to start quoting thatcher or reagan soon? 😛
16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Alienating a large portion of your constituents is how you get riots. The larger the group the more dangerous. At least that's what we saw in the last year in the US.
16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Chopping your population into smaller and smaller blocks until you are left with family units is also not sane
16:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Government is a compromise, we all find a way to live together in a way that satisfies the most of us. The US satisfies 1% of it’s population and is baffled when 90% of it riots
16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> True
16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Under the guise of pleasing 50% governments get elected and they start feeding their wall street overlords while giving just enough anesthesia to the 50% that they don’t notice that they aren’t doing anything they promised on elections
16:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I would define that as “not citizen oriented”
16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> The federated structure of the EU is exactly to overcome the issues you envision btw. If there isn’t an objective truth in some matter member states are completely free to regulate as their citizens want
16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I like how the EU nations spend a decent portion of their taxpayer pot into healthcare and education, whereas in the US I give almost 50% of my income to taxes, and the only thing I get is a $1 trillion military every year to kill Palestinian kids, while I pay for my own healthcare and my own education. That's why we all hate the government in USA.
16:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> But is the solution really less government?
16:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Since neither party in US is willing to slash military spending, the only solution is to downsize (I think)
16:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Sure that will drop the absolute amount of money you spend on bombing yemen but it doesn’t get you any healthcare. California as it is right now has overwhelming support for healthcare, yet there is no state attempt to have a single payer healthcare system in California
16:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> (As far as I’m aware there is nothing a state can do that isn’t regulated by the federal govt, so they could indeed do it if they want to)
16:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> .s/can/can’t/
16:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> California doesn't have enough money to get water to its citizens. Too many people and too much infrastructure to support. This seems to be the problem is all big cities in the US. You can't fix a densely populated area without insane spending.
16:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> There is a mass exodus in the US away from big cities right now for these reasons
16:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Moving out of the big cities yields higher quality of life and a higher income to cost of living ratio
16:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Well most if not all states operate at a budget deficit, no? I think without the federal govt most would go bust
16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The federal government operates on trillions of dollars of added deficit each year
16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> It is not sustainable, and it is not a solution
16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Well who is going to make the US pay, if we are being honest 😄
16:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Nobody as long as we keep up our military :) it's terrible
16:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> As long as you have world dominance you’ll be fine printing all the money you want and literally deleting debt ;P
16:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Tbf the entire world suffers from this issue tho. Currency isn’t really backed by anything but the US dollar around most of the world
16:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It’s more of an a measure of how much US dollar a country has in it’s treasury + an arbitrary measure of how trustworthy they are
16:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> But I am young, naiive, and anti-war. When I'm old and bitter I may find that the only way to get a large nation to cooperate is by implementing a shared belief system with expensive and restrictive policies. People love religion, bug government, and high taxes because it's the only way to ensure large groups cooperate.
16:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> But I am young, naiive, and anti-war. When I'm old and bitter I may find that the only way to get a large nation to cooperate is by implementing a shared belief system with expensive and restrictive policies. People love religion, big government, and high taxes because it's the only way to ensure large groups cooperate.
16:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Code of hammurabi is proof that it works.
16:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I feel the bigger issue in the US is that busted “democracy” that only gives you two “choices” both keen on not serving the people
16:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If the money went to the right places more people would be okay with the government. Might even want more of the good governence
16:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> We nearly broke that cycle recently. Socialist party nearly got elected (which may have been a good change) with Bernie printing money to fix the country. But then you are still borrowing money from the future generation aka a non-solution. I like your point about the myth of money though. Since its value is only based on what you trust others will value it, it really doesn't matter what you do as far as spending...
16:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> If a radical politician made a big change that had positive impacts, citizens would see through the two party system
16:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> (I think it’s an awful idea that is bound to blow up in all our faces btw)
16:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> That is the money thing
16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Change usually starts from the bottom, I guess it’s just that enough people aren’t pissed off that they only get two shitty choices yet
16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> It still seems clear as day to me that if the US spendy a little less on military, then we would have free healthcare and free education. Everyone in the world needs healthcare and education, that's obvious.
16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> 
16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The only risk (fear, thanks Russian arms race) is that if we cut military spending at all then we will be invaded lol
16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> As far as I know from what I’ve read the US’s current healthcare spending is enough to establish a single payer healthcare system, so you might even get to keep the massive military
16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i find it funny how muricans shit on nasa "fix earth issues first" when nasa gets only 1% of the federal budget, while the military gets trilions
16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Tbf NASA’s federal budget is like the entire gdp of a couple countries ;D
16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> they are always twitter people with a football related profile picture
16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> tho
16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The other argument is to deregulate and de-mystify the US healthcare system (libertarian approach). Currently you cannot shop around for healthcare, you can't even get a quote for what a procedure or medicine will cost. The federal government granting patents causes a monopoly where insulin costs pennies to make and gets sold for hundreds of dollars.
16:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> We outsiders sort of underestimate the absolute MASSIVE size of the US and the insane size of their budget
16:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> nasa budget is like cents for usa
16:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I love NASA, as I work in aerospace. I wish it had more funding lol
16:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @YupHio huh, thought you could get itemized bills but it’s extremely padded because insurance companies only cover a fraction
16:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> You can ask for an itemized bill, and often that will save you thousands of dollars. But you cannot shop around before the fact often
16:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It’s extremely deregulated right now imo with no one regulating prices except the free market
16:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> You couldn’t sell insulin for a 100$ anywhere else around the world even if it cost you that much to produce because it’s illegal almost everywhere
16:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I see it the opposite way. The federal government only allows one person to sell the drugs, so there is no competition
16:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> But both sides add up to a monopoly that fucks the healthcare patients
16:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Hm, patents. Yeah those are nasty, they need some kind of reform to stop companies from adding small insignificant things and repatenting drugs
16:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> well americans thinking our healthcare system (most europe countries) is equal to communism
16:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Either the government needs to allow competitive prices from multiple sellers, or the government needs to set a mark-up limit for healthcare expenses
16:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Either would work well I think
16:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> What is funny about that is european healthcare systems do really range from socialist to very close to what one could define as communism
16:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Look at france where they spend an absolutely insane amount of taxes for healthcare vs italy where it’s a relatively small portion
16:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The other problem in US is that health insurance companies are one of the biggest and most powerful political organisations. Health insurance is trillions of dollars and they basically run the show. This is a cycle as when they raise prices they get more money in the system and more power
16:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Is there really someone holding a patent to insulin btw? I thought patents expire sooner or later, aren’t there generic versions on the market yet?
16:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I think patents last around 20 years or something depending on what type. You are right about "new" patents that are basically just the old product with a small change.
16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> When a company can sell insulin for $100 for so long, it becomes the market value
16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> They with their trillions of dollars also run the politics of this issue btw. The supreme court decision that equates corporations to people in the eyes of the first amendment is literally a travesty of law. How could bribery be legalized it’s like one of the oldest crimes
16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> What people in other parts of the world would call corruption and degeneracy the US govt calls lobbying and legalizes it. Wtf
16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Corporate collusion is inevitable when you are talking about trillions of dollars. There is no getting around that. You just have to know it's there and work with it I guess
16:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Is it? In most countries politicians do protect massive industries even without getting bribes on the side
16:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Tho I guess money talks everywhere, at the end of the day everyone wants to get rich
16:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Same argument goes to big industries like tobacco and milk. You know it illegal to advertise products in public schools? In the US it is illegal to advertise every product except milk, because the dairy industry is so big that it lobbied the government to brainwash kids lol. Ridiculous.
16:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> You show up to public school as a 5 year old in USA and there are milk advertisements on all the walls.
16:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Tobacco and Alcohol are like one of the strongest lobbies everywhere. There is no way you could even be able to sell any product with half the harms of tobacco and alcohol
16:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> america healthcare sux
16:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Like branded ads?
16:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The alcohol industry in america is very good since prohibition. They self-regulate things such as never showing alcohol consumption in an ads (oddly enough) because they "don't want to promote drinking" but yeah you can't stop alcohol and tobacco industry
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> In turkey only the government is allowed to advertise in any school, not just public ones. And they usually run “ads” encouraging people to do sports or drink milk etc.
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Yes, whatever brand of milk the school has a contract with. I think my school was "Dairygold" branded milk
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I’m guessing you are not talking about this kind of ad tho
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The milk thing in USA is out of control
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Wow, literal corporate brainwashing from age 5 ;D
16:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Like really, ads on every wall in public school lol
16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Huh, that’s one I hadn’t heard before 😛
16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> One consequence of the ad ban in schools in turkey is that billboards close to schools are extremely valuable
16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Most people don't notice because we grown up with it here. But if you take an objective look at it, it is very strange
16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> On the topic of education, I have a wish that one day every countries curriculum would properly teach about how politics and government works
16:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> What if they were advertising tobacco in public schools? People would lose their minds. The problem is that most people think milk is relatively harmless I think. The science of environmental impact and dairy farming would beg to differ, but that's too much thinking
16:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I guess the rationalization people have is the age old fact(myth?) that dairy is good for growing children
16:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I think education is the foundational solution to most problems in our society. I think both sides completely agree with that. Now I can't understand how the US education system is still so terrible.
16:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Haven’t really read into that so no idea
17:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I have a theory, educated people are not easy to control. Governments like control
17:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I'm sure many people in this chat have experienced: easiest way to get a high paying job in USA is to get a college degree. Most places to get a college degree you have to go into bad debt. Then you get a high paying job, and spend 10+ years trying to pay off your debt and not really making more net income than you would have before. So it's like 15 years of bullshit until your college degree may have a net positive on your finances, while y
17:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> That's a good theory. Slave theory.
17:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> College in the US only seems profitable if you are able to get a scholarship
17:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Certain degrees are profitable, but most degrees will not help you if you look at the long term cost vs benefit.
17:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I have a theory about this too. Most people don’t actually belong in universities. They belong in technical schools but universities are sooooooo profitable to their owners so they open spots as bait
17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Technical/vocational schools should really increase all around the world. There is a need for a lot of capable/qualified people. There is no need for millions of academic-lites graduating from university-lites
17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> The worst situation (and very common) is people with average grades going to college, from a middle-class family.
17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> 
17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Firstly, the income of your family should not determine how much aid a student gets, as many of them are independent. Secondly, middle-class families are the sweet spot where they get no aid, and their parents generally can't afford to pay tuition. So everyone eventually gets to the middle-class and stays there miserably lol.
17:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> These people end up with massive student loan debt and get out there with no hirable skills to speak of. I think it’s insane that so many people are forced to get uni degrees to have a chance at a job that pays a living wage
17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Middle class almost always gets the shaft in almost every problem except maybe day to day life. You can check economic growth all around the world during the capitalism “miracle” and see how the poor people and the extremely rich benefitted insanely middle class had meh growth
17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I had a staff position at a university for a year. The way the budget worked was that you must spend all your budget by the end of the year, otherwise you get a budget cut the next year. So everything was designed to be as expensive and inefficient as possible. Most government work is like this in USA. It was very strange compared to corporate industry where it is all about cost savings and efficiency.
17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Funniest part is that the govt encourages this by cutting the budget. By their own hand they are forcing people to be as inefficient as possible to be able to keep their funding
17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I am currently a middle-class american, living the comfortable american dream. I have no *real* complaints, which is why nothing will change for my demographic. People living in relative comfort don't care to insight change
17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Yet you probably could be living much better or at the very least in a much more secure manner if the government cared more, no?
17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> @Learath2 if u set sv_map_window low, it depends on the cpu how fast the download is?
17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @Jupstar ✪ the actual connection
17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> With map window low the client has to request each and every chunk
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> ok, but isnt the server checking the request in some frequence?
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> like how long the CPU sleeps
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Yes and no. Define care. I am pissed that I pay almost 50% of my income to the government, so I don't want any policy that raises taxes more. I am all for the government redirecting funds to actually help people, but that's not profitable for the corporations running the show. They care as much as anything, but not about the right things it seems
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Uuuh, I would think w.r.t the connections propagation delay the cpu sleep is negligible
17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I meant as in if that 50% went to better things, like safety nets for everyone, healthcare, education etc
17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i just wonder if a very very slow CPU would struggle to make the same amount map chunks, than one with good CPU, at the same connection
17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> If I am not willing to pay more taxes, and the government will not redirect funds towards healthcare and education, nothing will change. I blame big government bloat for its wastefulness, corporate collusion, and military spending. But you could blame whatever you want
17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> lol why do u pay almost 50%
17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> With map window very small unless the cpu is like EXTREMELY slow I think the connection propagation delay still dominates
17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> @louis making well over $100k and I do all my investments in a ROTH so I have to pay taxes on them now rather than when I retire
17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It could happen with a very busy cpu tho, if the scheduler knocks your process out and all cores are hogged
17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Couple years ago when I was making $50k and not investing much I didn't have such a sour taste for taxes
17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> @Learath2  ok, then last question, do you think the opposite, an insanly fast CPU can cause the UDP packets to be not in order causing the packets to be dropped/ignored, or is our code designed to pack these chunks into one packet?
17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <gerdoe> i guess it would be better to move conversation to #off-topic, you guys are staying in irc-bridge channel
17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> are you planning on retiring early
17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Yes
17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> nice
17:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Everyone should be planning to retire early. Working all day for 40 years straight should not be the dream. Although working a little bit for your whole life sounds nice.
17:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @Jupstar ✪ we pack as much as we can into one packet. One teeworlds ‘packet’ is packed with as many other chunks that fit, one thing I’m not sure about is whether msgflag vital guarantees order
17:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I would like to "retire" quite early and then just teach one or two classes at a university or something until I die lol
17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Hm, no I’m sure an extremely fast cpu doesn’t matter either
17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It should all depend on the connection and the window size
17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> this is the kind of thing im doing
17:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i love how this dev channel always end up being a philosophical/politics channel
17:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Sorry about this, I get bored of studying then I chat around to keep my mind off of the guilt
17:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> why sorry
17:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i like it
17:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Tomorrow we can do philosophy. I’m almost done with “Discourses” we could all discuss stoicism ;P
17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> It’s quite off-topic for the channel
17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> but there is nothing else going on rn here anyway
17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> its just strange that on the same VPS laws server struggles in ddnet fast download
17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> vs
17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> 0.7 ddnet fast download
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> There is a difference between the two algorithms
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> 0.7 fast download doesn’t rely on the client at all
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > "virtue is the only good" for human beings, and those external things—such as health, wealth, and pleasure—are not good or bad in themselves (adiaphora), but have value as "material for virtue to act upon."
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> interesting xd
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> ok
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> but in the end, if the ping is similar, the connection should be similar shouldnt it?
17:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> The 0.6 one relies on the clients requests arriving in chunks aswell so it needs to handle requests still
17:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i mean the client is two times my client
17:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> 0.6 one creates two times the traffic ;P
17:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> yeah but on my VPS the map download is fast
17:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> almost same ping
17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> or the download sucks hard xD
17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> of the server
17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> You get the same speed for 0.7 and ddnet fast download?
17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> nah
17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> i meant, my vps runs ddnet, and his too, same version, default configs
17:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> but his struggles at 30kb/s while mine is fast
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> so maybe its the download speed of the server
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> or something really strange
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> bcs his vps is much better than mine
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> With 0.7 does his server perform better?
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> yes
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Packet loss absolutely kills the 0.6 version of fast download
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> in 0.7 the mapdownload is fast
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Maybe high packet loss?
17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> possibly
17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> didnt check yet 😄
17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> You could try to wireshark it, @heinrich5991’s new dissector should show you how many resends are happening
17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If i recall correctly 0.6 version of fastdownload literally falls back to slow download if you drop a single packet
17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> well small 200ms ping doesnt show anything atleast
17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> ping is also very stable
17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Jupstar ✪> thanks for the help tho 😄
17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> This is worth debugging, I would add dbg msgs on the client and the server to check what is requested and what is sent as a start as that’s how I debugged the fast download when implementing it
17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> If he wants to dig deeper that’s a good place to start
17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> A cute upgrade to the teeworlds protocol would be the ability to send maps thru a tcp socket. It would be soooo pretty to be able to just splice the memory into the socket getting rid of the dozens of syscalls done
17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I think an interesting place to take this conversation is the cost of extending human life. It is easy to imagine that in a generation the life expectancy could be closer to 100 years. Then let's say on average (hypothetically) everyone will get a terrible cancer and need a $1 million treatment by the time they are 95 years old. That is a burden that no government could afford. Where do you draw the line between basic healthcare vs extending
17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> 
17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> More realistic scenario: Mr Big Mac McDonald's comes in at age 35 weighing 500 lbs. His diet has caused cardiac disease and now he needs a new heart transplant that will cost $100,000. Should the free healthcare system absorb that cost?
17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> the thing is
17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> does it really cost 100,000
17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> or is it just corporate greed
17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :)
17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I read about this quite a bit actually. I think I even watched a youtube video on this that explained it pretty well. But the key is that european governments are absolutely invested into you never becoming mr big mac
17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> The sugar in drinks here are limited by law. Tobacco is taxed heavily by law. Governments have required budget spendings to build new gyms, advertise the benefits of sports.
17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @Learath2 https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/10/15/breaking-news-the-government-will-raise-the-iva-on-sugary-drinks-from-10-to-21-per-cent/
17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> xd
17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Part of the reason healthcare is so expensive and profitable these days is because people are living much longer, and needing more medical care as they get older. The cost seems to rise exponentially. For example my grandma had two knee replacements, a hip replacement, cancer treatment, etc. You simply can't provide that to everyone for free because it's such a luxury and takes the time of many others
17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Lots of $$$$$$
17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Is that something a US citizen invested in the concept of freedom could accept, that I do not know. But if you get free healthcare, the government has a huge incentive to keep you healthy
17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Only rich old people can afford it. So is it ethical to let the poor old people die when we *could* extend their lives at great expense?
17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Even healthy old people need these things. When you get old enough you inevitably die or get crazy expensive medical procedures
17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Fwiw your healthcare really is overly expensive. My grandma had hip replacements at a completely unsubsidized private hospital in turkey and she didn't pay anything near what my research of hip replacement prices in the US seem to be
17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> yteah usa healthcare is ridiculously expensive
17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> its pure greed
17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Like 100€s a night in the cheapest rooms expensive hospitals in turkey have nowhere near the insane costs of us hospitals
17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i think americans have taken for granted that it being expensive is normal
17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> I would imagine that a new human heart could easily be worth $100,000. Even without corporate greed.
17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I had surgery for what people say an ambulance ride for a broken leg would cost in the US
17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Organ transplants are a very different issue imo. An ethical beast of a question we could chat about for hours and not get anywhere
17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > Results: A total of 21 patients undergoing a heart transplant were included. One year survival rate was 76%. Mean (standard deviation) of total cost (procedure costs + one year follow-up cost) was 59,349 (18,881) euros (range: 29,380-113,470 euros). Procedure mean cost was 41,724 (17,584) euros (70% of total costs) and one year follow up mean cost was 17,625 (10,096) euros (30% of total costs) per patient. When the initial episode (heart 
17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16750126/
17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Yeah ambulance rides are insane here. Even though the whole fire department including ambulances is paid for entirely with tax dollars lol
17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > Conclusions: Costs of heart transplant in Barcelona (Spain) are similar to those published for other European Union countries, and well below the costs related to the procedure in the United States.
17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <YupHio> Damn that's expensive @Ryozuki I can't imagine what it costs in USA lol
17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> the conclusion
17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Ambulances being not free is the silliest thing, why would anyone think it would be abused lol
17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i hear muricans pay like 5k
17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> for ambulance
17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I have never heard of anyone in any country abuse an ambulance as a taxi
17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> just take a taxi 4head
17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I have a friend living in the US who took an uber after breaking his leg
17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> My source for this story. Tho I guess since he never took the ambulance he wouldnt possibly know how much it actually would have cost :P
17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Learath2 you can get fined in germany if you needlessly call an ambulance
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> well obviously
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> to call a ambulance u have to call the emergency service
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> that wasn't always the case
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> or whathever it is called
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> hence it's not obvious
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> IMO
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> hmm i never heard it not being the case
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> here
17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> tho i guess it can be not obvious if a call was needed or not sometimes
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> New RUS BLOCKER server is laggin AF
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> ok, good to know
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> old one was better?
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> and lags for everyone or just you?
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> I've got 2 confirmations on it
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> It has sudden freezes for like couple tenth of seconds
19:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> But it's for block to be unplayable
19:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> meh, so new hoster is shit too
19:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> What is new one? And what was before
19:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> What is the new one? And what was before
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> I have opened a ticket at the hoster about this problem
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> new is https://firstvds.ru , old was https://www.ihor.ru/
19:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> Oh, firstvds is supershit, but I also have experience with ihor like 5 years ago I had scandal with their's support after which I migrated all my services to Hetzner into europe
19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> You can try Ukr hosters btw or somewhere in Finland
19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> Good ping for CIS
19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> Ok it's almost impossible to play on RUS Blocker now, everyone is hating in chat
19:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> Previous one wasn't that bad
19:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> firstvds is like 1 tire shitty scam hosting in russia
19:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> Ihor is a little bit better tho
19:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> You may try myarena.ru, it may be superior
19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> ddos protected etc
19:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> @deen I almost can guarantee that https://www.myarena.ru/price.html is better than (firstvds + ihor) x 10
19:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Андрей Рудой> @deen I almost can guarantee that https://www.myarena.ru/price.html is better than (firstvds + ihor) * 10
21:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <gerdoe> no no no no firstvds sucks
22:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> Ok, thanks, will try myarena
23:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Matodor> no pls 🙂 these are servers for schoolchildren
23:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <deen> too late
23:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Matodor> :Peepo_rot:
23:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Matodor> will you transfer only the block server?