00:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 what kind of variable would be useful 00:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] anything in that function or class would be nice 00:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] rlh_record_in should be 3 at most and 0 at least 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] is that useful atall 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] can we look at the value of `dist` 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] or did it not reach that point 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, it's a large negative value 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] which 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] dist? 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] dist 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] O_O 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] well 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] i guess thats the problem .. 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] lets add check for that 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] but I don't know if we can trust the debug info 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` int dist = (hx * hx) + (hy * hy); 00:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] dist = dist ? (int)sqrt(dist) : dist;``` 00:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] i figured 00:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] that this shouldnt be negative 00:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] wait why 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is the debug info of another binary 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] if it also matches this one, it's pure luck 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] f 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] 4:51 PM] heinrich5991: @noby do you have any variable whose value you know? 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] 00:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] the problem is that pretty much every variable in that function is dependant on the position of the tee and the mouse 00:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] so if we cant tell those things then im not sure :x 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] need to wait for the next crash I guess 😦 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] D: 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] why is the dbg info on this one messed up? 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] was it using the older binary 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, it was using the one I hadn't updated yet 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] ohh 00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] aw 00:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] lets pretend that the update fixes it 00:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] 🙃 00:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Is there any config for repeating chat counter 00:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> `cl_friend_messages` 00:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> `cl_show_ids` 00:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Is there any other commands that can affect chat now? 01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Is there any way friend pass that exp? 01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> `if (m_aLines[r].m_ClientID >= 0 && m_aLines[r].m_aName[0] != '\0')` 01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Is there any way friend will not pass that exp? 01:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> `if (m_aLines[r].m_ClientID >= 0 && m_aLines[r].m_aName[0] != '\0')` 01:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] mhhh, maybe if he has no name 01:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> is it the valid reason 01:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> to break the chat 01:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] you can also change that line, the problem was just then the chat message window itself was r == 0 01:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] so it did add ": " for me 😄 01:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe u can check it somehow else 01:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] like when u are typing stuff 01:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> fuck it, it will just not show the heart if you're friend with player named null 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] xD 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Does it look like an old chat? 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766074895506866196/unknown.png 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> If so, I'm ready. The only thing left is to make a toggle in game setting hud 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] well the : is obv different but i already knew that 😄 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I will not fallback the ":" thing 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] so yes, looks same 01:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> don't even ask me 01:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] idc about it btw 01:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> the most thing I was unsure about is heart 01:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] i just dont want code in the text.cpp xD 01:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] bcs the cursor can solve all your problems 01:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I've removed my "NewLineOffset" relaeted code from text.cpp 01:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I've removed my "NewLineOffset" related code from text.cpp 01:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Even improved old code a bit 01:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> for chat.cpp > OnPrepareLines 01:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] in chat.cpp change whatever u want 01:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Im doing exactly that 01:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Didn't even want to change anything else 01:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> but unfortunately I need width/height info of text containers 01:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> for my future updates as well. And someone else's I think 01:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 @Learath2 pls check repo 01:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя ok, but i'd prefer to have a proper reason to why u want it, bcs the textcursor can already return width and height 01:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] so its just bloating the already bloating text.cpp even more 01:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] makes a rewrite just harder and harder 01:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @Jupstar ✪ what members exactly 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] m_X returns the current X value, so you can check it against the X value before the function call, 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] same for Y 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] aligned size gives you the exact font size 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] and so on 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] we can discuss this tomorrow or smth, just look around a bit 😄 01:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> but you didnt have any width/height of text container 01:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] well x advances the whole lines 01:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] if i am wrong, i'd still prefer to put it in the cursor not in the text container 01:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @Jupstar ✪ But if you're using multiple cursors to edit the same container? 01:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> which I do ofc 01:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes u can just add floats to each other if u want the full size 😄 01:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I've made last commit, you can look at it if you want 01:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> and give some commentary ofc 01:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah but not today, tomorrow 😄 01:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> k 01:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I'll just add toggle in setting menu and I'm done with chat, so that will be your problem now 😄 01:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> is it ok that my PR fails nearly all tests? 01:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Made a checkbox for old chat style in settings 01:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Chat is done now 03:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] hi guys 03:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] check this i maked wiki 03:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:DDraceNetwork#cite_ref-1 03:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anyone want fix my wrongs or additions anything let him do that 03:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] Anyone want fix my wrongs or additions anything let him/her do that 04:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] thanks developers for take my suggestion🙌 :brownbear: 04:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766127029258027038/b58139c8caa5d83d.png 04:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] for the second time:troll: 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] i really hope windows puts out some update soon 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] the guy in general also thought that the older clients worked 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] he also has a intel from 2019 09:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] so not some old stuff xd 10:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Jupstar ✪ honestly these issues occur way too often. I don't think we can just keep telling people to update drivers 10:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen so whats ur suggestion? block windows update, you must be aware that these reports magically happened like 1-2 weeks ago 10:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] before that nobody said anything 10:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh, it's a problem with the driver version windows delivers? I didn't follow closely, I assumed it was some gl code change we did using more features 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] well he has a CPU from 2019, even if i use the most exotic opengl 4.5 function it has to work xD 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] but yeah, appearently its since only 1-2 weeks, bcs then it started, and all had the same bug 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] then maybe let's write a website news at least? 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] i've no proof, but i know that alot of ppl think that 14.7 and newer worked and the new GL code is since 14.6.2 10:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] well you can do it, sure, wouldn't hurt 10:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] could you report it at microsoft? 10:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] well since a driver update yet always solved the issue, its probably known 10:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] but yeah can see if there is some report for it 10:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] would be nice if you could write the news post too 🙂 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95639 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] this has happened 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] in the past 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] look this xD 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766212846731788318/unknown.png 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] ppl get black screen right? 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] but they are on windows 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] is that a forum for windows? 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah this is windows 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] u didnt even read the title 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] but 2015 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] doesnt sound new xd 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] :justatest: 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] but they may have made the same issue 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] now 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] intel is known to have alot of problems always 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] not even only opengl 10:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] when i searched the internet a bit yesterday i found so many bug reports 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://support.microsoft.com/de-de/help/4021566/windows-10-send-feedback-to-microsoft-with-feedback-hub-app 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] they have a builtin app, but cant find any other way 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah german 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes i understands 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] good, bcs u have to learn german anyway 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] i do c++ with german keywords 10:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] and force it into the world 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] german words are stupidly large 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] xdd 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] falls(x == 0) { 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] } 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] mache { 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] } solange (x == 0) 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] english is the best 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] u dont have to press multiple keys 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] to do stuff like ü 10:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] cuz it doesnt exist 10:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] äöü are one key each :p 10:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 10:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] ñç are 10:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] well on a german keyboard at least 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen i am not good at writing, just write something like this, but in your own words xd: 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] --- 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] layout: post 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] title: "Problems with Intel processors" 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] permalink: /news/intel-driver-problems/ 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] tag: current 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] --- 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] There were a lot of reports about for bugs and crashes with intel processors under Windows lately. 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] It might have been created by a windows update, which also updates the intel GPU's driver. 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] A driver update seemed to help with this situation (downloaded the latest driver for intel and update it with help of [this](//https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Update-to-Latest-Intel-Graphics-Driver/m-p/4457633?page=1#4457786)) 10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] We hope that intel can solve their issue quickly, until then you can just try to follow the advice above. 10:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``` 10:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hi, I was wondering if it would be possible to have a 2nd HD option especially for a foreground in my case (so it remains an option) 10:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Is it possible or not ? 😮 10:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] theoretically yes xd 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] if u really just mean that foreground would e.g. show the high details 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] lets say it like this: 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] the client knows that is foreground and what is background 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] and it could disable highdetails for one, while the other has it on 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] lets say it like this: 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] the client knows what is foreground and what is background 10:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] and it could disable highdetails for one, while the other has it on 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean it could be like hd, you check yes on the wanted layers 11:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] the client can already do this? 11:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] 11:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] it just doesnt split foreground and background 11:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] so the only chance is to split foreground with background option, but not in the edtior 11:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] in the editor you know whats foreground, bcs of the gamelayer ofc 11:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] but if you mean a 2nd option for the same layer 11:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] that is not possible 11:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] only a second option to split between foreground and background layers 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok let me show you 11:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://youtu.be/pvR7KPCl2M0 11:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd like the foreground, not playground, to be an option 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] aslong every layer after the gamelayer would be your definition of "foreground" then yes 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] else no 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] yep everything above it 11:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] or actually no the game layer graphics are above game as well 11:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] then it won't work probably, bcs in the client everything after the gamelayer is the foreground 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] so another HD (graphics/high details) option isn't conceivable? 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] it would break vanilla compability 11:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] so i guess ddnet wont allow it 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm I thought about it but in that case, wouldn't it just display it for vanilla players ? 11:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] only ddnet users would be able to show/hide it then 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766228447424282654/unknown.png 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] an option for these two is possible 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] but not single layers inside these groups 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] well maybe it is possible, but i dunno if they want it in ddnet 😄 11:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean everything is possible somehow xD 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, maybe it's possible without breaking compatibility 🤔 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] I thought I might just be the only one to use it but actually it'd be great to have a bar going from 0 to 2 (for HD 0, HD 1, HD 2) where you could decide how many details you want 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] looking in the editor yes 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] and not just nothing/everything as it currently is 11:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] it'd be possible to add it for ddnet only, i dunno how sensitive the vanilla client is, but probs it will just ignore the flag 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] you could add another ~31 high detail steps as far as i can see 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ok, I'll wait for more opinion about it 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] anyway I can't code 😄 11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Pipou I think HD on/off is enough, wouldn't add more. It also means all have to be tested 11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think the foreground stuff looks cool 11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe make it a bit transparent to make it clear it's just graphical (if that's your worry) 11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think it might be too much that's why I wanted to leave it as an option 11:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] I understand, but we have too many options 11:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah it's ok then 11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] here is what it looks like without hd 11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766234189221068810/unknown.png 11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont even understand whats the problem of having alot of options 11:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] we only save non defaults anyway 11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's complexity 11:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] every combination of options can fail 11:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] only if its used more than 1 time tho 11:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you do 11:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] int Detail = g_Config.m_HighDetails 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] and that is the level of detail that doesnt add complexity 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] 0 = no level of detail in this case 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] 32=all 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] smth like that 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok, in this case. but still annoying for testers having to check all 32 levels 11:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] can't it be less than 32? 11:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah was just an example 11:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] so people can adjust the design to their liking or pc performances 12:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think performance doesnt differ that dramatically. using a new feature to adjust the design to ones liking is not possible on any map released up to this point, would be another thing future mappers have to take care of 12:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes of course 14:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ravie which version is it broken on 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I will pay whoever fixes the damn cmake issue on macOS where it obsessively links to our bundled libs 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ravie fwiw the texture UV works perfectly fine on master 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] Suggestion 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] Preparing a simplified map creation program 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] like this:greenthing: 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766290341942263818/e02a0340d725aa86.png 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 @heinrich5991 What do you think about the option I mentioned earlier ? (concerning the HD option) 16:53 <+ChillerDragon> cockblock @Learath2 16:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] np 16:53 <+ChillerDragon> :p 16:53 <+ChillerDragon> took me whole day to find it xd 16:55 <+ChillerDragon> https://zillyhuhn.com/cs/.1602773668.png 16:56 <+ChillerDragon> i should have registered first before making a pr i guess 16:56 <+ChillerDragon> u ow me a infinite supply of shirts now learath xd 16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm not the one submitting shitPRs 😛 16:57 <+ChillerDragon> its good 16:57 <+ChillerDragon> spaces are the worst 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ravie I don't really see why we need another option here. performance isn't a problem 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] The only reason I could think of would be to let pros get a cleaner view of the map like they like but without stripping the entire design. Though I don't think anyone would use it 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] I have 2 people unable to update to the latest client version (15.1.1 to 15.1.2) 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] non steam version 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Any errors? 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://i.imgur.com/sVfHeEN.png 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] the other person also said something about ddnet info error 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah that fails sometimes, maybe we should disable the wwarning again or rate limit it 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] any way to solve this? or do they have to update to the newest version manually? 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats not about the version actually is it? 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well, it'd be nice to see the console if they don't mind 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd like to see why the curl request failed 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] all I know is, they can't update to the newest version bcs the update button doesn't appear 17:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] i'll ask them @Learath2 abit difficult bcs they don't have discord 17:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] its in the main menu now 17:25 <+ChillerDragon> @murpi they can hop on irc btw no need for discord 17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > the other person also said something about ddnet info error 17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @murpi 17:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > Sometimes there is a popup "ddnet-info error" showing up. Moon, translate it to him 17:25 <+ChillerDragon> @murpi https://webchat.quakenet.org/ #ddnet 17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I updated about 2 days ago, just to be clear the bug happens when you select different combinations of quad corners 17:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/744292708926881832/766321705776971816/JrX38sbQDWE.jpg 17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] is there a way to write the entire console output to a file? 17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] or is the screenshot suffcient? 17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] f1, logfile client.log 17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] and then restart cleint 17:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] where does it save the file? 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] dunno 😄 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] 17:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] and the file keeps growing, mine is > 1 year old already 17:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] the screenshot doesn't show an error 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe there's an error that we don't log 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Could you review my PR on chat update pls? 17:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] me? 17:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Idk, somwone who can finally check it, refactor if needed and merge 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I haven't really looked into it, saw that there was a discussion already 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] there is no need to rush is there 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] we also haven't finished the discussion about what to do with the options yet 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Already done "old chat" config option 17:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> No need to discuss 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Don't like the new style - switch to completely same old 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] > The problem with introducing more and more config options to selectively disable certain features is that it becomes hard to impossible to change the existing code without breaking something, hindering the exploration of new features such as your PR. I'm trying to solve that problem by offering less configuration options, but still allowing players to go back to a version they liked. 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] citing myself 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's what is to discuss 17:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] adding yet another config option is not sustainable 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] but we could actually move that discussion out of the PR, couldn't we? 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> It is, because it's only one options to make ppl that don't like an update satisfied 17:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen not if players become used to those config options and annoy us due to that 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I mean only 1 new config option that solves the problem 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 then open a separate issue, make a milestone 15.2, and tag that issue with the milestone so that we decide on it before release 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> You could, btw, disable parts of an old style one by one in future updates 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> So old players get used to new style slowly 17:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen okay, I can do that 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ravie how do you select multiple corners of a quad? 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 shift? 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] what do we do if it's not solved by then? revert the PR @deen 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] shift + left click 17:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 not release until it's solved 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean the same issue existed for every configuration option we introduced in the last years. so it's a bit unfair to suddenly hold back one change because of it 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766324894404968578/console.txt 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] entire console output 17:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] k, I'm fine with that 17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] @murpi is that from the run where the error occured? 17:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Eeeeh, I don't really know what the behaviour would be if it behaved "correctly" 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] If you select multiple corners and the U/V value are not meant to be the same, editing them together makes a mess as expected 17:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen I have no idea 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Is there a way to check if theres an update available via console? 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/744292708926881832/766321996002230382/qANtRHOgL70.jpg 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol 17:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] what console? 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] isn't he on the latest version? 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] bottom says one is available. Is that DDNet client from website or steam? 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> that's the reason I didn't have enough motivation to make any updates for ddnet. Because you spend a lot of time on useless discussions about "Old players may not like the update, so we will not release it. But we can make a config option to revert an update. But then there becomes to many config options, so we better don't release it" 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> and developments stays for months. 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] no, he's on 15.1 and 15.1.2 is available 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] Honestly, the fact that we can't ever to a visual update is pissing me off. We shouldn't have to maintain options to keep the game looking the "same" 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's the client from the ddnet site 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] s\/to/do/ 17:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Just stop being scared to improve the game already please 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think it's understandable that it's hard to change UI when people have been used to it for > 10 years 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> it's just one click to change it 17:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] tbf, whether it's an improvement is debatable, I don't really think the tees bring much to the table 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] it does look cute though 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, should have discussed previously if this is even wanted :/ 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] should I just tell him to manually update then? :S 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> it is wanted 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] should I just tell him to manually update then? :S 17:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] edit: them 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] how do you know? 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] @murpi That log doesn't show an actual error, so I don't really see us being able to help them. They'll need to update by hand 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] is the auto updater off? 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] oki 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] shouldnt it always show the update button if a update is there 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] Oh wait yeah 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, i'm checking the windows build right now 17:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wonder why autoupdate is off 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] damn, somehow the official build is without autoupdater 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] @murpi yeah, manual download 17:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> The way you can deal with old unpleased players is to slightly remove old features one by one, making them get used to new styles/features/updates 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> if there is at least more then 75% players who likes an update. 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> If there is around 50% maybe it's better to: 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> 1. Improve new feature, so more ppl want it 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> 2. Make a config variable for choosing between new/old and support both 17:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think the chat thing is cool as long as it's not buggy, ofc some ppl will not like it and they always complaain about it in discord but u can just add a "show chat backdrop" or w/e in the options 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I already did `cl_chat_old` option 17:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> so, as I said already, there is nothing to discuss 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> move forward, update the game, stop discussing each update for months 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] not just cl_chat_old u should have a button in options 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766327748590567454/screenshot_2020-10-15_10-52-10.png 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] also why is this srv at top when i have both player+ping sorting 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] isnt it above 100 ping 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> it's already a button in options 17:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] hmmm @louis 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя Which update have we discussed for months? 17:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] Your change is 2 days old and some of us have other things to do as well 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I thought each update which is not bug-fix 17:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's probably since it has over 64 players @heinrich5991, just a guess 17:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I left ddnet at that moment, but how long did it took you to accept and implement "showing map name instead of "Scoreboard" text in [tab]"? 17:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> just curious 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/1819 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] took 20 days to get merged, but I see no discussion 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] #861 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] took 1 month 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/861 17:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] xD 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> lol yes 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] that was a larger thing and we still have troubles ^^ 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> idk what it included, but that shouldn't be so large 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] u cannot always make small prs 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> just new message from server on map load + simple text change on client side 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> 1-2 days feature 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя I was really busy around that time since I moved to a new apartment and had lots of other things private things going on. I don't think you can expect responses in X days 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя I was talking about the opengl3 request that @Jupstar ✪ mentioend ("larger thing") 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I see now. But the previous thing took 3/4 month to merge 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> when it's simple af 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> and definitely an improvement 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766330169169674260/unknown.png 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] which previous thing? 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol i noticed the boxes dont line up btw 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> `"showing map name instead of "Scoreboard" text in [tab]"` 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] they someone added a useless margin somewhere xd 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Which I suggested some years ago 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] It took 19 days, didn't it? 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> So 3 weeks is 3/4 of month? 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя anyway, you pr changes the whole chatting, and we need to discuss anyway if we want this default or not 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] ooh, I misread that as 3-4 months 😄 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] even if you like it doesnt mean others will like it 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> If the others don't like it turn this thing off omg 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766330732712296458/unknown.png 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats not how it works 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> If someone don't like it turn this thing off omg 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/766330732712296458/unknown.png 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] but this is a maintenance burden on us 18:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] we now have to support two chat renderings (probably more, I think you added more than one option) going forward 18:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] if you say: remove old options, then great, let's remove as many options as you have introduced 18:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> you don't need to support old chat. Have some time to see how many people like and play with new style 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] great, so tell us which old option we can remove 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont like the background color 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] there are a lot of old options already @Дядя Женя 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] the roundness looks bad in teeworlds 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> then, if its enough, force others to switch for new if there is a new update coming up that will fuck up old version 18:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] we have lots of old options. which can we remove? 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > the roundness looks bad in teeworlds 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @Jupstar ✪ agreed, don't worry, I will move on UI soon, after the chat update xD 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. show friends in chat, show repetition counters, show IDs 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess IDs isn't a maintenance burden (haven't checked) if it just changes the name 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > we have lots of old options. which can we remove? 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @heinrich5991 show me the list of them pls 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя i have no problem with the UI changing, but chat is an ingame element 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] its not comparable with the UI 18:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> or name the most popular ones 18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > e.g. show friends in chat, show repetition counters, show IDs 18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @heinrich5991 force everyone to turn this on, except for IDs. IDs should be kept as debug feature 18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> ez, solved 18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] k, if that's fine with everyone and you only added two options, then I'm satisfied 18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> if you're talking about chat now, then I've added only 1 new option 18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] great 🙂 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen @Learath2 what do you say about removing the repetition option and the friend option and adding the new one? 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> there is no repetition option I saw when writing chat code 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> there was no repetition option I saw when writing chat code 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] So the only problem now we don't have space for a new toggle in settings? 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> but was `cl_friend_messages`, which should be removed if you're not ok with keeping that 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] the problem is also, 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Pure_luck no, space is not the issue I'm talking about 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] But you discuss it about 2-3 screens already. 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] i like the alignment of the new text, but i hate the background, so we need 2 options or force alignment for old text too 😄 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 ids are really useful for mods 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen didn't propose removing that one 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] what's a repetition option? 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] I thought we had an opton for the [1] counters 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] but we don't 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> there is no such option 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] so it's just removing the friend option 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> there is an option for hearts for friend's messages 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> if you don't like that you have a lot of options now - remove that one 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Pure_luck the discussion is about having an ever-increasing amount of config options 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> should be turned on by default 'cause why you even use friend list without it 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> btw increasing config options is not bad 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Pure_luck which is a problem for code maintenance 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> if it's easy to maintain them 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> cl_friend_messages have no problems with maintance 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 i love an infinite amount of config options that i can change via the ui and not the console. 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] it had a problem with the repetition counter already IIRC. was hard to find a design that works properly with and without @Дядя Женя 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @Mikey. I'll make it for ya, my friend ❤️ 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 in web development world we do it in phases 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] 1. Merge a PR with new variant and a switch 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] 2. Test it and collect stats. This needs an adaptation period as most users are always conservative even if new variant is better. 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] 3. Remove switch and remove less favourite variant. 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Mikey. the problem is the development cost, not that it's nice to have them 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] This way we clean-up options at 3rd stage as they're no longer needed. 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > it had a problem with the repetition counter already IIRC. was hard to find a design that works properly with and without @Дядя Женя 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @heinrich5991 because your counter code sucks, not because it's hard to maintain 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yeah, actually there are features that interact with each other and there are ones that don't. maybe we should differentiate a bit more. 18:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> So you fucked up the alignment of the text if cl_friend_messages 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen but hearts do interact with the rendering of chat messages. you need to think about aligning everything properly with and without 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > in web development world we do it in phases 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @Pure_luck already told them to do so 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Дядя Женя 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] > you fucked up 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] > your counter code sucks 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] This is certainly not a constructive way to propose changes. 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] (yes. please tone down your language @Дядя Женя) 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] > @Mikey. the problem is the development cost, not that it's nice to have them 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 is there any development cost if he already came with the finished "product" 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Yeah, I'm sorry, that's just the way I'm talking, I have nothing against you and I'm not angry or smth 18:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even if your code is better dealing with this type of discussion and arguments might be the reason of rejecting code at all. As accepting this code means accepting this attitude. Can you change it? 18:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > @deen but hearts do interact with the rendering of chat messages. you need to think about aligning everything properly with and without 18:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @heinrich5991 you always need to make a code such way that it will align any message properly, no matter if you add new text to it or remove something 18:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> that's why I told before that it's not a problem with options 18:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> it's problem in you 18:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> and your coding < 18:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] generic code ftw 18:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just notice that people who are you talking to deserve some respect at least because they've maintained this product for a very log time and invested vast amount of their time. 18:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Also finding cons in your PR is the way discussion generally work. Even if you see your solution as perfect there could be other concerns that matter most in a long run that needs to be discussed too. Don't expect that major changes will be just accepted very fast and without attempts of finding flaws. Finding flaws in your solution and evaluating it is the way of making codebase better and not attitude to your efforts. just the way thing 18:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] generic code ftw ( i am drunk and i have no ideea what i am saying) 18:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think @Дядя Женя got it already, I don't think we need to sidetrack further 18:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> That's not about code flaws we're talking rn 18:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> But ok, what we should do now? 18:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> If we will not talk about it nothing will change 18:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] the message from me was just about the meta discussion 18:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> There is nothing that we need time for right now. Just discuss it and move on. We don't have any solution and plan for now. Just waiting for something 18:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] You've been working on this part of code for weeks now. You're having it in your brains. Other people are saw your code less than a day ago (or even haven't yet). I think they just need some time. 18:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> I've done it in 2 and a half days 18:26 <+ChillerDragon> @Ryozuki halp I did ``yay -Syu --devel --timeupdate`` and my ddnet client is still 15.1.1 and yells at me that 15.1.2 is out 18:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> Half day was for understanding the source code I'm working with 18:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon why don't you just use pacaur -S ddnet-git? 18:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] and you havent even changed what i requested 18:27 <+ChillerDragon> bcs i use yay instead of pacaur 18:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] so your pr isnt ready anyway 18:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> > You've been working on this part of code for weeks now. You're having it in your brains. Other people are saw your code less than a day ago (or even haven't yet). I think they just need some time. 18:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Дядя Женя> @Pure_luck As I mentioned before, where do you see any code discussion here? 18:28 <+bridge> [ddnet]