00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> why is this not working?
00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> https://github.com/fokkonaut/F-DDrace/commit/94b95a9821c9b43af9534c63f590012d856ad082
00:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> Its exactly how its handled on ddnet
01:27 <+Learath2> You'll have to define "not working"
01:27 <+Learath2> Is it not fast? Does it not download at all?
01:28 <+Learath2> Either way, debugging this should be fairly simple, log the received and requested chunks on the client and the server
01:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> yea its not fast
11:17 <+ChillerDragon> where is the file src/game/generated/server_data.cpp created?
11:18 <+ChillerDragon> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L1370 is it here? or should it be created here already?
11:19 <+ChillerDragon> ah i guess its generated here https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L1300
11:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/blob/c37dc660477566da5d54deacd3f8358acb850ecc/CMakeLists.txt#L1370
11:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> yes here
12:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerAnimemes/comments/hv2e6z/a_very_old_meme_from_ace_attorney/
12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> funny
14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> delete strong/weak :troll:
15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <n000b> U
17:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Yeah heinrich just ignore the community as u always do
17:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @ᶰ°Konͧsti I can reopen the issue if you can discuss in a saner manner. I explicitly warned you. feel free to edit your comment and I can reopen
17:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I didnt use rude language
17:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> you said something *must* be done. that's obviously not true. you can say that you want something done instead
17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> And its not even worth an isse because there cant be a discussion about reverting a completely unfair change to the gameplay
17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> If it was never possible from beginning it would be ok, but changing it after 6 years how can u Come to such an idea
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> what was the reason for this change
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Zwelf thought its a nice idea and heinrich just added it
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> idk, I won't discuss it with people only talking in absolutes
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @onby
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> im just asking lol
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> > idk, I won't discuss it with people only talking in absolutes
17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @heinrich5991 
17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> 
17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Thats an absolute
17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> yup. about whom I talk to
17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @onby yes, I'm answering that I haven't looked into it yet
17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> <https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/commit/f2b5abb1fba696e24e33cefb1b46532f0a4fbe05> this i assume?
17:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> Konsti seems to think so
17:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> If i report a game breaking exploit and say it MUST BE FIXED quick heinrich would ignore it
17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> how can one not understand the Problem with this pr
17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Ask any player and they all tell u thats bad
17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> we didn't get that far (discussing the PR)
17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> (by we I mean Konsti and me)
17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> u didnt discuss it when adding it
17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> So why u want a discussion now?
17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I don't want to have a discussion with you right now, see above
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Me neither cuz its not worth a discussion
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> k
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> isnt it making some old ranks unbeatable
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> ur only problem is the player who opened the issue, not the issue or the language itself
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> No it doesnt
17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> It just makes maps harder
17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Which is unfair and even noby understands who dont play DDRace
18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <TearlessAbyss46> Lol I wondered why saving to swap weak/strong didnt work anymore
18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <TearlessAbyss46> Strange "fixes" these last few weeks with the giving random words as a save and now with saving who has weak and strong
18:25 <+ChillerDragon> I think when it comes to such gameplay related decisions its wise to listen to skilled long time players like konsti
18:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > ur only problem is the player who opened the issue, not the issue or the language itself
18:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @ᶰ°Konͧsti no, u look like a complete retard here
18:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> lets be honest
18:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I'm just glad no one noticed that before the random words thing you could finish infinite times with one save near the finish line on a day with ddos 😛
18:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I vote we revert f2b5abb1 people have been using it for a long time and we don't have an alternative for it
19:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> i think there should be a better alternative
19:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i vote not reverting it just to piss konsti
19:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Ryozuki please 😦
19:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> With 2 person teams, maybe. With n person saves, there is no good way to decide on the tee order except loading as is
19:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> saving adds one minute to the time right? i doubt u can not take a rank one in the current state then
19:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> btw, discuss on github to have forum-style discussion @Learath2
19:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Didn't you nuke Konsti's issue? 😄
19:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I guess we could talk on the other one
19:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> there's a new one
19:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> probs his second account
19:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> idc, it was civil
19:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > Ask any player and they all tell u thats bad
19:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @ᶰ°Konͧsti any player around your circle*
19:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> it was such a big problem that you are the only and first to complain here btw
19:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I know the perfect fix for this, let's remove strong hook
19:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> weak hook?
19:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> well yes, but removing either will just leave one hook strength
19:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> He'll cry regardless, so I support that idea :poggers:
19:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> hm maybe save/load abuse could be embraced. add a server message: 
19:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> > Did you know: you can switch positions and change which tees have strong/weak hook, by renaming and changing the strong/weak order inbetween saving and loading.
19:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> add /spec to that map, it will make new r1 possible, but its better than the other way around, not making new r1 possible
19:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> yes, please remove weak hook, it's the most cursed thing ever
19:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> if you do that there will be more than a konsti coming here i think
19:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :greenthing:
19:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> idk everyone always cries that he has weak hook, if everyone has strong hook then nobody will cry
19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> I put 20$ on Wombat being the second one to complain after Konsti if we remove weak hook
19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Safest fix would be to make it somehow toggleable
19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> you're new here, huh?
19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> and taking care of weak hook in maps is just the worst thing ever
19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u can fix the konsti complain by adding spec to that map
19:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> p simple
19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> u can fix konsti complaining by not listening to konsti
19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> best
19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> reverting f2b5abb1 is easier than having a pink rat trolling on servers just to annoy us
19:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> We had the discussion with deleting weak hook already and its a complicated things
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> stop trolling
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ur the one trolling
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> ur
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> i thought the problem wasnt that its complicated just that it might break some maps
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> is there even a single part that works with weak and not strong? (except some stupid floating point crap part)
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> and that there was no easy way to find which maps it affects
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> save/load being fixed doesnt break maps, it only makes some "harder"
19:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> u can fix that by adding spec on that map
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> nobody maps around the idea of save loading
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> Anyway, we removed a gameplay option without giving an alternative and unless we find a good alternative we should revert it
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> There actually is a normal part that only works with weak xd
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> the alternative is to add spec to the map
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> wouldn't it be simply great if all parts... just worked?
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> spec can be abused on certain parts, so you have to look through maps to make sure you can't
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> what is an example of a part that only works with weak hook
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> a rocketfly map is a 2 team map
19:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> i doubt ucan abuse
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> spec
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> u cant just delete weak hook.
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Either u fix it "wrong" and still have all the other weak physics left but cant really figure out who has the real strong now or you fix the complete physic and will have the game broken because things like speedfly, hammerrun etc wont work anymore
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> No way to find all maps that would need spec and no way to know what kind of cheats Konsti can come up with spec on some maps
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> konsti
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> this here for example only works with weak
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/738807274964779129/unknown.png
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> u can delete weak hook and give all strong, look at kog
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> konsti the one who complains about this useless stuff
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> can tell the maps
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @Knuski how so? isn't it a basic ddmax part
19:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @onby you don't really do speedflys or shotgun runs on kog
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> o
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> kog is simple
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ddnet is not
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @Knuski are you coming from the left or right?
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> remove kog tab
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> from the left
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Hook is too strong to allow the tee to go past the corner up
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> @Ravie i played it today and well yes it is but the thing is that there is no freeze at the third tile either but there is freeze at the third so it only works with weak
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> ohh
19:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @Learath2 from left
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> > u can delete weak hook and give all strong, look at kog
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @noby 
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> 
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Its not a thing that can go for DDNet, weak is a deep physic that is the basic for a lot physics
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> @Ravie i played it today and well yes it is but the thing is that there shouldnt befreeze at the third tile either but there is freeze at the third so it only works with weak
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> @Ravie i played it today and well yes it is but the thing is that there shouldnt be freeze at the third tile either but there is freeze at the third so it only works with weak
19:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> I never thought about that type of part being impossible with strong hook, I noticed I sometimes struggle with them, it would make sense that it's a strong / weak issue. Is it actually impossible with strong though?
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @Skeith just tested it out, yes
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @Knuski I did it with strong but it's a bit tricky
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Very common part too
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> works though, so map not broken
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> so that map requires a way to switch weak/strong?
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> if ur not touching the actual weak physics but giving strong hook for all u need at least and indicator who has the real strong
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/738808057609453679/weakstrong.map
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> well but u still need to make things differently then which is kinda bad @Ravie
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Learath2> @Ravie lies, show demo
19:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Speedfly is a main weak physic
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> > if ur not touching the actual weak physics but giving strong hook for all u need at least and indicator who has the real strong
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @ᶰ°Konͧsti i cant find the sense in this, if u have everyone strong hook weak doesnt exist
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> ok sec need to record one
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Nah ryooki ur wrong
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> how
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> explain it
19:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> We already had strong hook on DDNet
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> It didnt fix the other weak physics, only the hook but u cant tell who has real strong now
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> if everyone has strong there is no real or fake strong
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> first stage at 2long, needs weak hook
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> would be surprised if not, make recording
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/738808508857974794/unknown.png
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> that sounds like it wasnt fixed correctly
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Ryozuki the trouble occurs when you collide
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> if u fix it correctly things like speedfly wont work anymore
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> you have another ordering problem there
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Bouncing behaviour is part of weak and strong
19:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Just shows how stupid this bug is, people aren't 100% sure if certain things are possible / impossible with it. Really fucks with the integrity of the game. Shit just feels random
19:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Skeith ur playing like 1 year u know nothing
19:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> LOL
19:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> The game isnt random
19:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @ᶰ°Konͧsti stop that
19:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> I've been playing for 11 years though
19:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> stop belittling people
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Yea go watching over any word i say but let the others insult xD
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/738809014464413706/remove_weak.demo
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I smell hypocrite
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> ez pz
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @ᶰ°Konͧsti dont worry, heinrich already pmed me about how i talk too
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @ᶰ°Konͧsti PM me about it, I'll handle it
19:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> :lol:
19:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Nobody gonna download this demo and paste it and open client without knowing what to see
19:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> It shows strong hook working for that type of part
19:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> @Ravie well okay but u have to keep in mind that that shouldnt be a problem and many ppl wont even think about doing smth like that
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> still, I proved my point
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> @Ravie does it make that type of part feel worse though? Does it take a more specific timing?
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> it works
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Knuski> and it also slows u down in a run
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> you need to hammer when he starts moving away
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> for al ittle boost
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> I'm guessing you need to let them unfreeze?
19:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> for a little boost
19:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> I don't remember if it's possible when there's freeze there, I don't remember if there's any like that
19:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> but this rules out this part for "not working with weak"
19:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> show me another one
19:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> I don't believe so
19:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> that's insanely more difficult though, like unbalanced more difficult
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> there was some type of flying with two tees that someone tried and it wouldnt work on fng bcs all had strong
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> but it doesn't break the maps, would some one ancient ddmax move be enough to stop progress on ddnet?
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> dont remember exactly what it was but maybe thats an example
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> So it requires the tee to hammer right as they're moving away? The other way works no matter when you time it, from what I can tell. So it'd feel worse
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> (Weak hook)
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> also someone could just fix maps with this move and remove one freeze
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> just an idea
19:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> @Skeith do u remember i think u were there
19:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Hm? You mean with murpi? I think everything worked fine?
19:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> @Ravie  that would be the best solution probably
19:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> hmm i thought there was 1 thing yall couldnt do without weak
19:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @Skeith hammer is not needed
19:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> and yes
19:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> @Ravie it's a stupidly common part
19:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> well if we miss some then someone will report them
19:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> and it's not like it makes the maps impossible to finish
19:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Another point was, a mechanic actually required it.. Involving shotgun
19:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Or multiple
19:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Which is the bigger issue
19:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> besides if it's such a common move then there is definitely some map(s) where you have strong there with no way to switch
19:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> unless you do /save fuckery, knonsti
19:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> As i said if ur giving strong hook to all but not touching the bouncing physics u should have an indicator that shows who got real strong / weak
19:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> then fix it properly
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> I think the idea was to give no one a weak hook, but that might be a good idea, just making weak hook not as weak?
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> If everything else would still work
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> that could be even worse
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> but even fixing weak hook hammerfly would be a step forward
19:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> @heinrich5991 https://zaiste.net/posts/shell-commands-rust/ cool stuff
19:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Ravie u cannot fix it properly xD
19:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> unless u want like every map broken because speedfly wont work anymore or shotgunrun especially on old maps
19:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> speedfly only needs one hook, that being strong
19:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> fix weak plz
19:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> there are like what? 2000 maps?
19:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> you can't just make such a big change and "assume" every map is still playable. the decisions have to be quite well thought through. 
19:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> the fact that you can't switch weak and strong anymore is already concerning
19:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> lol wtf how is speedfly broken if u fix strong/weak
19:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @ReD | allocaツ surely there's no map that got through testing where you need a /load/save cycle to finish?
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @ReD | allocaツ well if there is any issue and someone finds it then he will likely report it
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> @heinrich5991 yes there is
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ryozuki> ???
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> or they wont know thats the reason they cant do the part and just think the map is too hard and give up
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> i think pentamine there is a part that is veeeery difficult with weak where you have to do some insane shotgun snipes
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> and if u have strong u literally just hold hook
19:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> ive used save/load twice there
19:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> to switch out
19:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> > speedfly only needs one hook, that being strong
19:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Ravie w r o n g
19:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @louis many parts are significantly more difficult with weak
19:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Speedfly is not related to the hook but to The bouncing
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> delete maps which need weak hook and remove weak hook
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> it's bad
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> wrong you can do speedfly without even touching
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> lol wtf
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> yeah
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> u dont need the bounce for speedfly
19:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Its still releated to the bouncing
19:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Pretty sure murpi was doing speedfly perfectly fine on noby's server that has only strong hook
19:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> ye im on kog and it seems to work fine
19:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> noby server has strong hook just like KoG
19:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> but they still have weak physics
19:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> well strong/weak is technically fixed on these servers? or is there something else
19:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> @louis this part?
19:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/738813700647026708/unknown.png
19:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Yes Kog and fng have strong hook for all just like DDNet had years ago
19:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> For a short time
19:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> yes
19:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> but it doesnt fix the weak physics u need in DDRace
19:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/738814474487595018/IMG_20200731_194436.jpg
19:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> @louis but you can go back and swap to let strong go left here
19:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Maybe u can there but not everywhere.
19:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> The start of the discussion was to be able to swap weak and strong by save and load again
19:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> @ᶰ°Konͧsti well then the question is which parts are now broken
19:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @ᶰ°Konͧsti there's no need for that if weak is removed
19:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> @ReD | allocaツ if u dont know that its easier w strong then u wouldnt go back
19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> also i think its sg and laser so sg is required to go left
19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> > @ᶰ°Konͧsti there's no need for that if weak is removed
19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Ravie Wrong?XD
19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> what wrong?
19:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> there's no need to switch if everyone has strong
19:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I just showed why fix dont work
19:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> "the difficulty of this part is an arrow if you happen to have weak" that's seems just like a mapping mistake
19:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> 
19:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ReD | allocaツ> then fix map bei either making arrows speed 3 or adding turnoffentities arrow to say strong goes left
19:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> its just an example of how strong/weak can affect how a part is done
19:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Speedfly is related to bouncing even when u dont touch because a strong tee would fly up faster and bounce against the upper tee which stops the speedfly
20:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Tees have Something like a gravity in a speedfly
20:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> if map hasnt strong/weak necessity make variable like `sv_strong_only 1`
20:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> idk
20:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> if ddnet will have new idea physics related, it will should mark old maps for "old physics"
20:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> if ddnet will have new idea related for physics, it will should mark old maps for "old physics"
20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> If having only one hook strength breaks too many things, when why not just allowing spec on every map by default?
20:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Whoever plays for longer is more annoyed by the fact spec isn't enabled, than by the fact it is
20:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> and to make it more annoying right now, there are some map series in which only specific ones allow specing
20:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Soreu it doesn't really have anything to do with /spec. you could have a command that allows you to give strong
20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> \/spec has other side effects
20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Yes, but that's overcomplicating with another annoying cmd to remember
20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> why? no one would use spec anymore
20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> can we at least have a tile that gives you strong or weak
20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> spec have the advantages of temporarily not blocking someone else
20:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> pls no
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> if we allow /spec on all maps, it will be easier to do stuff with tees being into each other and shotgun
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> it would be useful if used right
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> > 8:17 PM] Soreu: spec have the advantages of temporarily not blocking someone else
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> yes, and of enabling cheating
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> you can e.g. push someone out
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> if two people land close to freeze edge
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> then fix sg-to-the-space bug? or otherwise, make map setting to disallow spec >.>
20:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @Ravie that would simply mess up the strong/weak order for the following parts
20:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> having the tee in freeze hammer immediately also broke several things & maps, yet it is kept as it have more pros than cons
20:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> in teamforced maps it would be useful
20:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> just add a strong hook tile after each part
20:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Soreu that was always possible
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @Soreu what did it broke?
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> > if two people land close to freeze edge
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @heinrich5991 that one is even more useful :kek:
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> would the strong hook tile make the tees switch weak/strong
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> or literally give strong to any tee that entered
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Soreu the change did not allow hammering in freeze, was possible before
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it only made it easier
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> > @Soreu that was always possible
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> @heinrich5991 it was not possible to stack 10 tees in freeze and make them hammer at the same time (well only technically)
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Welf it was very possible
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> ppl will be blocking others to get the strong hook tile :justatest:
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Welf we tried. unlocked scroll wheel, 100%
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @onby i think would kinda do the /spec effect on the tee that touches it (without disappearing)
20:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> ohh interesting
20:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> > then fix sg-to-the-space bug? or otherwise, make map setting to disallow spec >.>
20:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Soreu 
20:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Its used in some maps and maps has already been cheated with it
20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> strong hook tile could have even more funny effects in team of more than 2 players
20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> or make this just a bind, giving strong without disappearing
20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> yes, that might be possible
20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> so you don't have to enable spec in maps
20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/issues/2529#issuecomment-667267197
20:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Also i dont need spec to do shotgun bug anywhere in the map, there are ways to do it anyway xD
20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> with ninja
20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> No
20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> pinkrat
20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> when someone does the command what would it do, give them strong on which tees
20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Its possible on every map
20:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> unsolo tile, no collision tile
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @onby everyone
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> eh
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> give them weak on everyone
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> like /spec
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> yeah
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> ahh
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Let's say we have 2 players - top one drags bottom one thru the part. Top one uses /GetStrongHook, and in middle of the part the bottom one uses same command - hook physics changing during hookingm
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> same effect as spec/unspec but always keep collision
20:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Ravie its possible on any map that contains shotgun on any place
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> hm im worried a command like that could be used in the middle of tees interacting with eachother and bug out or smth
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @ᶰ°Konͧsti Now you got me curious :p
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> would it work to just despawn and respawn the character on the same tick
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> to give it weak on all
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @louis same
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> @onby remember that save bug
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @onby or just reorder the character list, yes
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> that was despawning and respawning on same tick i think xd
20:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> no, what save bug
20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @louis it would be the same as spec so you can't do it in air or while being hooked
20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> it was a while ago where u could avoid wep cooldown
20:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> oh yeah that would probably work then
20:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> I still feel like spec is the easiest solution >.> pushing someone by unspecing rather won't be extremely useful. And the sg bug - pink troll rat already said that spec is not needed for it, so...
20:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> even if Konsti is lying, I'd rather trust him anyway due to his experience in that topic :justatest:
20:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Welf> just ban shotgun
20:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Soreu we don't need to look for the easiest solution code-wise
20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> and the problem is really there
20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it'd change gameplay I think
20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> say you have a map where you need to switch strong hook around, you simply can't use sg in that map
20:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> make the sg shoot bullets again like it does in vanilla
20:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> @heinrich5991 I didn't think code-wise, rather trying not to overcomplicate it for players and use already available solutions known by playerbase
20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I have the feeling that people using /save/load to swap weak and strong are sufficiently invested in the game
20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @Soreu wut. im not aware about how to overlay tees anywhere. i would guess that you need some setup, maybe reverse speedfly or smth. i dont think that is reason enough to allow spec+sg cheesing on all sg maps
20:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> We could enable spec by default for any map in future except the mapper puts spec off in server settings (ChillerDragon :thonkery: )
20:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Fixing things related to available options seems more reasonable than introducing new things, especially since lately there were a lot of additional options added
20:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> which?
20:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> which were added recently?
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> new commands & options for existing ones
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> #2472
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2472
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> #2390
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> eh, that's not ddnet related
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <DDNet> https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/2390
20:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> that's also not gameplay related
20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it's not something you have to know to play the game
20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> yeah, heinrich asks for new serverside/gameplay options
20:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> Then the last one of which I know is making freeze hammers easier
20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <a gerdoe> one thing i remembered is teleport by weapons
20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Soreu> and about maps it broke - I think one was @Ravie 's
20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @Soreu it did not change what's possible
20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> we were able to reproduce it before the fix, too
20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> 100%
20:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> with a unlocked scroll wheel
20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> what does unlocked mean
20:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap5lEuS5uM
20:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> @noby I guess similar to how I broke your server with touchpad
20:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> hahaha
20:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> ravie yeah but i think most people who use scrollwheel with that bind
20:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> can break it in the same way lol
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> but not as good xd
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> The main argument for the new hammer was that they said the hammer is random or luck which is wrong, it was a learnable skill
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Nobody would use mousewheel bind in a hammerfly
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Ravie> new hammer allows great parts
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> it would be interesting to see what an 'unlocked' scrollwheel does compared to ur touchpad and the mice ive tested
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> and huge cheats
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> we tried it, it worked in hammerfly @ᶰ°Konͧsti
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> new hammer breaks a lotta parts too lol
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @ᶰ°Konͧsti i started to use it, it was actually quite ez to use
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> but its fine
20:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @ᶰ°Konͧsti no new cheats were enabled
20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> because its a huge improvement in many aspects
20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> we tested it beforehand
20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> oh yeah u could technically cheat w/out it i guess
20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @heinrich5991 yes it works but nobody would really do it in the moment ur going to fail. It was a big skill to hit the timed hammer and now isnt
20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> The argument that unlocked scroll wheel allows you to hammer 100% of the time is a perfect reason to make that hammer change imo.
20:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> if something like that introduces new exploits wouldnt they likely be obscure things that only happen in really specific situations? seems hard to test this
20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Good aim allows u to hit the enemy anyway so we can place an aimbot in the client
20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> @onby well, we also understood the code 🙂
20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it allows you to hammer if you do it in exactly the moment you get unfrozen
20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> @ᶰ°Konͧsti yes they would, it is 100% consistent. why wouldnt they. while you can definitely practice that, you wont get to 100%
20:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Thats the point of a skill
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> That its not possible 100%
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> understanding the code definitely helps yeah but arent most exploits found by players ingame
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> it also allowed people on bad connections to do deepfly
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Patiga> exactly, so having a way that gives you 100% kinda defeats the purpose of the skill
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> which is a good thing
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <TearlessAbyss46> 90% of people that argues against Konsti here either doesnt speedrun or they dont play the game a lot to see how much stuff will actually break
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> no
20:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> konsti doesnt speedrun xd
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> konsti just exploits
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Since u disabled deepfly by default on all maps
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <louis> also a lot of ppl in this channel are pretty experienced w/ the game so i wouldn't say that lol
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I didn't disable that @ᶰ°Konͧsti
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Even on maps were it was possible before
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> that was other people
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :feelsbadman:
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <heinrich5991> I was against it, but majority prevailed
20:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> now u know the feeling :feelsbadman:
20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <TearlessAbyss46> speedruns usually find unique ways to do map that other people wont even think about doing
20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> +i do speedrun sometimes
20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Like my last r1
20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <Skeith> Deepfly breaks too much shit, disabling it on all was a good choice
20:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Exploiting is just more fun
20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> > unique ways to do map that other people wont
20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> like exploiting
20:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Disabling deepfly on all maps broke topranks
20:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> that u cant beat anymore
20:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> ik its enabled ok Skychase for example but not on all maps that had this
20:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> was it ever officially reported
20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> was it ever officially reported
20:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <noby> because something that makes old ranks unbeatable doesnt sound like it would be accepted from what ive heard so far
22:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> Hey, I dont seem to be able to add proper SecurityToken support for ddnet clients for my 0.7 server. Here is where I added all of it, but in the current state it looks like I am just ignoring the tokens and ddnet clients seem to have unsecured connections, my server is currently beeing flooded.
22:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> https://github.com/fokkonaut/F-DDrace/commit/f8e3d0d5283cc46542c550ecfb875fcfe0a8ec36#diff-8be0b73182ebc28e83f65ab6d3335e90
22:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] <fokkonaut> maybe someone can look at this/ fix it? i really dont understand all of that