10:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 no clue how to debug such thing. Any ideas? 10:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] watch/breakpoints in the graphics thread 10:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] and what am i searching there? 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon try gfx_resizable 0 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yea that helped thanks @Jupstar ✪ 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] 11:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] I will play around the next time ill need to launch the client but for now it sometimes worked. 11:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 nice blogpost 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] where did u read it? 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] do youe men github/heinrich/blog ? 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://heinrich5991.github.io/blog/blog/one-tick-unfreeze 11:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] ahty 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] i even starred the repo and didnt notice it was published xd 11:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 anything new this patch allow that we might not want? 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] cool blog post love it. 11:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] But yikes the patch sounds really game changing. 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I suggest letting some pros play with the patch first before merging it. And see what becomes possible. So that he do not risk some unexpected op behaviour. 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] would this allow for freeze hammer chaining for example? 11:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] if hammer buffers like grenade then yes 11:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] could be op on some maps i guess 11:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] you could easily hammer through thick freeze walls 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] for sure a t0 speedrunning game changer 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean idk maybe not too bad and i really like the idea of supporting it without deepfly bind but we have to test it for sure, 11:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye it is cool but probably causes some cheats on old maps 12:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hmm, you could do hammer chains with a scrollwheel 12:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] also completely removes the timing aspect of "double hammer" out of unfreeze during a hammerhit 12:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] definitely needs testing 12:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] on the other hand it was the same with weapons in freeze before deen fixed it way back in 2013. maybe this should have been added years ago as well 12:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 wouldnt that allow deepflying with normal players? 12:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] basically means cheating a huge chunk of our current deepfreeze parts 12:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] (which are already cheatable with dummy - which is bad - but not intended to be done that way) 12:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe just allow it on dummy and new maps first 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] what if its possible to just walk infinitly through freeze:tee_thinking: 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] having inconsistent mechanics from map to map is rly bad xd 12:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] just on dummy would be better that what we have now tho ye 12:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/teeworlds/teeworlds/commit/7df4f9c8bfed13f9f0e6216cc93dc263ff85f8a6 12:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] 12:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] might be worth cherrypickin 13:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] wait,0.7 has sha256 hashes? 😄 13:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] would never think they'd implement that citing something like map names too long or ugly 13:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] sure 0.7 has it all 13:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] did i mention already that 0.7 might be worth taking a look at and updating to it? xd 13:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon did I mention a lot of people need to pitch in to get ddnet to 0.7? 13:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] hi 13:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] didn't we agree that we'd get a lite ddnet version running on 0.7? 13:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] isn't it only missing sql? 13:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] y 13:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] wouldn't implementing sql be better then asking me? 13:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm not really interested in porting the broken sql code as is 13:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] upgrading sql good sounds good 13:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm exploring web assembly now, maybe i'll look at rewriting sql tomorrow 13:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] would be amazing 13:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] (hope ur not trollin me rn :c) 14:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 is the stopper fixed now completely? if yes, can you commit it to ddnet7? 14:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 can you please be here to assist me with some cmake? 😛 14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @redix have a minute to spare 14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] About the sql stuff... You want to stick to the old db scheme I think? 14:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] I started implementing a sqlite based backend (should be easy to add MySQL aswell) but I'm using IDs instead of names and right now it only implements finishes and no teams, scores etc. 14:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @redix I was thinking of working on the db scheme aswell 14:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] What do you mean IDs tho? players don't really have ids when we don't have accounts 14:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @redix if you have a couple seconds to spare can you try building this? https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer-c-api 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Table for players and primary key as id 14:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Their cmake example can't possibly work (and it doesn't) but they wouldn't have commited it if it doesn't work 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] And in the finish you use the id instead of the name. So you don't have to store the name multiple times in the finish table 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] But it makes only sense in 0.7 since you cannot change the name 14:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] What a joke that change is 14:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] If I ever get a workable plugin system, i'll fork teeworlds and it'll be the first change I'm reverting 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Haha :D well I'm not sure why you would change the name... But not being able the change the skin was really a bad idea 14:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] Those things belonged in the snap and the couple dozen bytes saved by the initial snapshot being a full snapshot is not worth it 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] Yes 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] or maybe if I'm feeling particularly nice I'll implement it as a new extended snapobject so vanilla players can still connect but see the wrong names 14:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] It just bloats the code since you have to handle it differently in demos 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] @redix did you try compiling the wasmer example? 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] "will you?" is a better question if not I'll bug someone else 😄 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm on a phone right now 😅 14:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah 14:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] @archimede67 hello my fellow developer, would you mind compiling a small example for me on this fine day? 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] @fokkonaut or you? 😛 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] what? 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] can you give https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer-c-api a quick compile? 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] oof hpow 14:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] just clone 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] then `cmake . && make` 14:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] why dont you do it? (just wondering, no offense) 14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] It doesn't work for me, I'm wondering whether they commited a broken example or it's my cmake version or it's another macOS oddity 14:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] (My hypothesis is `cmake .` should fail) 14:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] it also fails on linux so that leaves broken example or cmake version 14:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] Okay as a last resort I'll ask @HMH if he is any good with cmake 😛 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] http://paste.pr0.tips/jg 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] debian10 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh u already tested linux 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] nvm then 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah, that settles it, the stupid example just doesn't compile at all 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] trolls 😄 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] 25 stars repo 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] where did u find dat xd 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] ExternalProject_Add builds at compile time, find_library happens at configure time 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon it's part of wasmer 14:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah wasm 14:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] you might want to build the thing first in the app folder 14:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer-c-api/tree/master/wasm-sample-app 14:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah wait thats a sample 14:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] xxxD 14:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] they are all examples? 14:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] are you sure this is the correct repo? 14:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 14:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah you just want to build a example 14:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] i see 14:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] the sample app is compiled to wasm 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] the actual project then runs the wasm file 14:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] so wasm is also used for desktop apps? 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] well you can 14:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] Fine, I'll implement lua instead.......... 14:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] luajit is quite quick anyway 14:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] lua yikes 14:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] lua is a very convenient language imho 14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] i only did a very lil project with it and some bam so i cant judge i guess 14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] do you have cargo installed btw Learath2? 14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] cmake seems to need that 14:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah I do have cargo installed 14:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk then 14:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] problem is that the build doesn't happen until build time 14:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] and find_library is looking for it before 14:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] which it's obv not there 14:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea :c 14:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 still need me? xd 14:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] @archimede67 nope 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @archimede67 if you are familiar with cmake, you can help me link to wasmer 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 cmake fails for me too. removing `WASMER_LIB`, calling make, adding it again and calling cmake and make again works 😄 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] wat? 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] remove the find library from cmakelist.txt? 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah that should work 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] Hmm I guess I can develop like that, and when @heinrich5991 is around he can fix it with his cmake-fu 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] 👍 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] just make an issue 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] and let those devs fix it 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] made an issue, doubt they'll fix it tho 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] ill like it 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] if a heroinfluencer on github like me likes theyll do it 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] there is surprisingly little resource on how to do cmake properly 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] who needs ressources if you have a heinrich :troll: 15:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] so you are going with c instead of lua again? 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] well with wasm you can compile a lot of things to wasm 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] rust is madness 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont even get wasmer compiled at all 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] emcc can compile c to wasm 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] there is also a compiler from typescript iirc 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] but we'd only be supporting c like this :/ 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] ill give up on it you have it running anyways huh? 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon am trying 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] will see if it works 😛 15:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] i get bunch of rust errors 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] `use of unstable library feature 'try_from' (see issue #33417)`... 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] just rust things 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I give up, I'll work on revamping sql instead 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] ya thats what i ment by rust madness 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] or maybe luajit, I'll decide in a minute or so 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] at least it links some issues haha 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] (not like luajit has any proper integration examples around either) 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I hate this step of getting shit to link 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just want to code, I don't want to mess around with cmake for hours at end 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] +1 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] just non bash things 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] it always just works 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] when are we porting ddnet to shell? 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe I should make my own build system 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] bam° 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] bam is weak 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] o.O 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] ill tell magnus 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm imagining something like npm or cargo that handles dependencies aswell 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's pretty hard to get right for C/C++ tho 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] apt also handles dependencys 🙂 it works pretty fine from shell script 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] fstd: how to create pstd from copy buffer? 15:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon there is xsel 15:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] the -b switch sounds useful 15:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] xsel? 15:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] -b ? 15:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] but how to finish -b then 15:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] xsel -b is supposed to output the clipboard to stdout 15:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah 15:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] works perfect thanks 16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm done messing around with cmake, what an absolute waste of time 16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm going to have a damn seizure 16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I spent 4 hours trying to get it to link, now it links but I can't add the include dirs 16:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] :c 16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] I might start crying 16:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] nah all will be fine 16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] linking is good 🙂 16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] im sure you are in top5 most productive ddnet devs today 16:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] thats a win 16:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 what do you need, specifically? 16:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I'm trying to compile and link libluajit 17:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] well download from git, compile, link 17:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] @snail that enables deepflying with normal players. but actually it just makes it ping-independent. people with bad pings can start to do the dummy maps 17:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] except that it allows hammer unfreezing from higher client IDs to lower ones, nothing is changed 17:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon My productivity is technically 0 as I haven't achieved anything 17:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 https://gist.github.com/Learath2/3d8149b80f1c986b9e6dce97d6ebfdbd this is what I have 17:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] I also added a `add_dependencies(engine-shared libluajit)` which sounds wrong to me tbh 17:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] @snail @jao I think that the change is great, because: 17:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] 1) it removes the annoying tick-perfect gameplay that was required 17:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] 2) it'll probably enable pros to do more fun tricks without buying some hardware 😉 I guess we'll see some new interesting tricks pop up 17:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] 3) it removes the weird restriction of only lower client IDs being able to unfreeze higher client IDs for hammering 17:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I think that by default, you'd want to link to the already built library 17:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] for testing, install libluajit on your distro, add a `cmake/FindLibluajit.cmake` and just go with it 17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] we can bundle the libs later 17:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] How does one even write the "FindLibluajit.cmake"? 17:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] copy `FindOgg.cmake` and replace all instances of ogg with appropriately cased luajit 17:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 what does find_package_handle_standard_args do? 17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] set OGG_FOUND if OGG_INCLUDEDIR is found 17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] and maybe a couple of other things, don't remember 17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] `man cmake-modules` 17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] I've never had so much trouble working with any language 17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's quite insane 17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] unfortunately it's the best supported build system for c/c++ 17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] I might one day make something like cargo for C/C++ 17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] or npm 17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] wasnt there something planned? 17:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] i saw it in a talk once i think 17:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] But do you really want to invest a full project time to only do building and linking @Learath2 ? xd 17:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] If I never ever have to mess with this again, sure 17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] Something like `cpm link --bundle luajit@v2.1` would be so useful 17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] > Learath2: @heinrich5991 nice blogpost 17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] thanks btw 17:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ChillerDragon yea, I wonder why you even starred an empty repo 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] fan num1 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] not very smart fan that missed the actual post tho 17:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] be honest that star kept you going :feelsamazingman: 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I noticed the star before publishing 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] I actually wondered before clicking: is that myself that is automatically starring my own repo or might that be chillerdragon 17:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] xxxxD 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 do you happen to know the history of these? how did cmake ever become popular with such an insanely hard to use configuration? 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] because configure.sh was worse 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] it was the only thing that worked cross-platform in a sane way 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think I had better time with autohell tbh 17:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] (including windows) 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] autohell doesn't really work on windows 17:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] relies on `fork()` too much 17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] I was sure I'd see poettering in the credits of cmake 17:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] looks like something he might make 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] my answer to that sounds like it could a flamewar 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] *could start 17:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm okay with bashing on poettering 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] Even ignoring his mess of a project, his behaviour is deplorable 17:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] If he'd contribute to ddnet I'd stop tbh 17:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] rq 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol, it links compiles, then it doesn't work because of some macOS weirdness 17:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] Why is life so hard? 17:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] wa mac weirdness btw? 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 have you tried just installing the lib instead of compiling it from source? 18:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] macOS revolutionises the OS space by allowing libs to bundle more then one architecture 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 on mac the only way to install it is from brew or by hand 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] I installed it from brew 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] brew is nice 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] i even have brew on linux lol 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] brew is garbage, what is wrong with you 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] :/ 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] you trying to fuck up your distribution? ^^ 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] why would you have brew on linux where packages are properly maintained 18:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] xd 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] at least i dont have macports :troll: 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] anyway I forced brew to compile from source, maybe that'll compile 64 bit properly 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] so u get a 32? 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] the developer for brew was salty google didn't accept him 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] xxD 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] beste meme 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] apparently because he couldn't reverse a linked list 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] he doesnt have to 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] he basically built google 18:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] 😄 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] you'd trust a programmer that doesn't know even the basics of algorithms with your systems package management? 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes? 18:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] If you can't remember the cool way you can just put everything into a stack in order then reinsert it in a linked list 😛 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] Compiling from source worked 18:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] hacker 18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 if the "cool tricks" allow you to cheat parts, it’s rather bad tho 18:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] but you can do that today 18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] we tried it out with an unlocked mouse 18:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] wheel 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] when kintafly was discovered, it also ment that parts could be done in ways mappers didn't anticipate 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] can you consistently deepfly with a real person today? 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] we haven't tried that 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it's probably possible by sending inputs much more often 18:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean the input is clearly possible 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] so u have to have a bot client 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] we can try it with the unlocked scroll wheel 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] i have one 18:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] will eat something first 18:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think an unlocked scroll wheel would indeed send enough input to have one per each tick 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @jao another example btw: in the past we had unreliable one tick unfreeze even with laser and automatic weapons 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] it sendss more than one +fire per tick and bot detects hate it 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] people with good internet were able to do it 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] deen fixed it by sending input more often 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] it sendss more than one +fire per tick and bot detects hate it (@scrollwheel) 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] wasnt it speedy? 18:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] you could claim that it's a bot feature, but I think having game features reliable is better? 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] ya that sounds good. 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] 18:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] i just feel like it could have some unwanted side effects that you didnt think of 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes for sure 18:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] we just need some pros test if you can do some crazy unfreezing 23:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 yes, it's frame perfect. and not even that, the frame you need to click in depends on whether you have a higher or lower client ID than the other tee 23:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] I wonder how we all got so good at it 23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 btw do we render one frame per tick? 23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's independent 23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] so it's not really frame perfect per se, but tick perfect 😛 23:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 23:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] in single-player games this coincides, therefore the terminology I guess? 23:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] I was onboard with the change at first, but I think I agree more with the others that this kind of thing is something that you just need to learn 23:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's definitely not that tough to time even on a bad connection and making it easier just, idk devalues peoples time spent learning the timing? 23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'd guess it'd allow these people to think of much more fun tricks tbh 23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] the people who are good at it 23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] deepfly being inconsistent though I don't really like that, maybe we could come up with a better fix for it? 23:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] of course the fix could be separated for deep/non-deep 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > [11:33 PM] heinrich5991: I'd guess it'd allow these people to think of much more fun tricks tbh 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] > [11:33 PM] heinrich5991: the people who are good at it 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] what do you think about that? 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean evolving gameplay a little is fun, isn't it? 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] you don't really need to be good after the change though 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] not for that exact trick 23:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] hammerflies suddenly become very hard to fail 23:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] it could allow some nice new gameplay though 23:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] people will be able to do crazier stuff 23:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean I kinda feel the cat is out of the bag already by the server accepting these inputs 23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] > [12:35 AM] heinrich5991: people will be able to do crazier stuff 23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes but with a much lower barrier to entry 23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] would it still constitute as "crazy" if it's just holding down the fire button? 23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] not this exact trick 23:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] but you can combine it with other stuff 23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. hammerfly used to be crazy 23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] then 0.6 came and it was a lot easier 23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] but people still managed to get much more complicated tricks with it 23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] and so there is more interesting stuff since then 23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 are you sure the hf save is exactly the same thing as a hammer in freeze? 23:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think it should be, but even though I can get the hf save like 80% of the time, I've never once in my life got the hammer while I'm in freeze 23:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] and I try every time 23:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'm pretty sure 23:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] you can see the results of me studying the code in the blog post 23:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] maybe it's the set rhythm of the hammerfly that helps time the hammers 23:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] yup, maybe 23:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] what did 0.6 do to make hammerflies easier? 23:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] changed tee collision 23:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] ah yes 23:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't think ddnet should be a never changing game 23:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think we'll just kill it with that… 23:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] Well I don't disagree, but I also think it's bound to die, so my opinion in that regard is irrelevant 23:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] but e.g. the hammerfly thing 23:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't think pros were sad that their old hammerfly skills were done by less skilled people 23:41 <+Konsti> oh ofc they would 23:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] The way to convince people to accept that change would be to show them the possibilities I guess 23:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] it just allowed new mechanics 23:42 <+Konsti> no thats cheating 23:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] I remember a couple people being salty about the hammerfly mechanics 23:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm k 23:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] but in the long run, nobody would want the 0.5 mechanics back 23:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] they were just less fun 23:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] but in hind-sight I think they just had their egos bruised, they didn't really hate the change itself 23:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] hindsight* 23:43 <+Konsti> yeah apply an aim assist to make edgehooks easier too, people will like it but that doesnt mean its fair 23:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] Konsti: edgehooks aren't inconsistent between machines or network connections 23:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] nor are they timed to 0.02th of a second 23:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] also not easily done by stupidly pressing the button often enough 23:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] you actually have to aim 23:44 <+Konsti> wtf 23:44 <+Konsti> u dont spam hammer button for this 23:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] but you can 23:44 <+Konsti> its feeling 23:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's the thing 23:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] but you can, exactly 😛 23:45 <+Konsti> u cant know nevause you are a nobo lmao 23:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] thanks for your nice discussion style… 23:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] feed enough fire inputs and it'll actually work a 100% of the time Konsti 23:45 <+Konsti> sorry but what do you know about pro mechanics 23:46 <+Konsti> then fix the spam input by mousewheel thing ez 23:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] sorry but what do you know about how the code actually works? 23:46 <+Konsti> nothing 23:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] can you stop it too, learath2 😦 23:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 if he gets to argue like a dickhead, I get to reciprocate 23:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's just unfair if he only gets to pick on people 23:47 <+Konsti> i'm sorry heinrich 23:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes. the usual way to deal with that would be moderators I guess 23:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] Konsti: to fix the spam input, we'd need to discard some input 23:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] How would you know what to discard? a rate-limit? 23:49 <+Konsti> how is it rate limited if using key but not if using mousewheel 23:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's not rate limited using the key 23:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] only by how fast you can press it 23:50 <+Konsti> yeah why does it work there 23:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess if you'd bind it to multiple keys, you could even reach it, but it would be impractical 23:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] because you don't click 50 times a second 23:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean we could probably just ban people that send a fire input every tick? 23:51 <+Konsti> not ban 23:51 <+Konsti> could be false positive right 23:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, but it'd kinda go against what deen did before 23:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] but that still leaves the trick inconsistent as client id's also matter 23:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] deen didn't patch out things like setting the "max mouse range" to 2 or so to get a perfect upward grenade 23:51 <+Konsti> better than chaning the physics of the game and affect tons of ranks and parts 23:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] this is not changing the physics of the game 23:52 <+Konsti> of the client then 23:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] the same thing is possible before 23:52 <+Konsti> u make it not only way more easier, you delete a complete kind of skill out of the game 23:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, but allow for more to be discovered 23:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] isn't that something you'd like? 23:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] but how can u discover new things if it doesnt change the physic ;D 23:53 <+Konsti> when do u check 23:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] because it allows you to pull the trick reliably @Jupstar ✪ 23:53 <+Konsti> that ddracers never want any changes 23:53 <+bridge> [ddnet] then its just easier not new 23:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] it does allow new things 23:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Jupstar ✪ assume that you have a gameplay mechanic that works 25% of the time. you'd never get to see the tricks that need 5 of these in a row 23:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] once you are able to do one thing consistently, you can expand on it @Jupstar ✪ 23:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] even if you are fairly consistent, you wouldn't be able to pull off a couple of them in a row 23:54 <+Konsti> its not a big deal to do it 5 times in a row when it works 100% 23:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] its mostly about tryhard 23:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] Which allows new interesting parts, which can be enough 23:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] however I also said before that yes it might not be interesting enough if it works for everyone at any skill level all the time 23:55 <+Konsti> make a new mod for it then but dont affect all existing maps with those things 23:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] but it's possible that some ranks were already done with it Konsti 😉 23:56 <+Konsti> how 23:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] To be perfectly honest, if we commit this right now, Konsti and a handful other will be pissed for like a week or max a month, then people will forget the change even happened 23:56 <+Konsti> did u already apple this thing 23:56 <+bridge> [ddnet]