00:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> lmfao 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Learath2 KoG =/ ddnet 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> KoG maps not available on maps.ddnet.tw 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> nobo 00:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> lmfao 00:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] we host popular maps on maps.ddnet.tw even if we don't host them on ddnet genuis 01:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 could you top up my copy of teehistorian sometime? 01:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] that is if you have decent upload speeds 01:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ᶰ°Konͧsti i dont think these are ddnet maps either 01:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/440652392703459328/Screen_Shot_2018-04-30_at_6.14.59_PM.png 01:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually i think most of them got pulled from my server somehow 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think heinrichs archive has all maps from the servers that dont have passwords 01:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] heinrich's archive is completely seperate 01:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] nobys screenshot is from heinrichs archive 01:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] no its from maps.ddnet.tw/ 01:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 01:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] this one is from the archive 01:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/440653296932356114/Screen_Shot_2018-04-30_at_6.18.36_PM.png 01:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] so pretty much the same 01:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh oops. 01:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think deen added most downloaded x maps or sth 01:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] where do they come from 01:23 <+Learath2> probably from heinrich's archive or his own downloaded maps folder, who knows 01:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] does a client have to join the servers to get the mapfile? 01:23 <+Learath2> yeah 01:24 <+Learath2> you just disconnect right before sending NETMSG_READY iirc and you just get the map 01:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] so if i open a server, i should be able to see heinrichs bot joining to get the map? if so, whats it called? 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] I've never seen it actually, and he might have stopped 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] nah. i have seen a lot maps from 2018 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think it only scrapes empty servers not to disturb anyone 01:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] is it the bot named maps.ddnet.tw? 01:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] ive seen it join my server several times in the console when it was empty 01:26 <+bridge> [ddnet] could be 01:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] does it leave instantly? i gotta write this in my firendslist 😄 01:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] it tries to call every vote option then leaves 01:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] does it have the blocker maps which you can only join through that lobby thing? 01:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] lobby thing? 01:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think if anyone joins while it's voting around it'll just leave 01:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can join them from the server list too 01:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] and yeah ive seen the bot join and instantly leave when there are players 01:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh. i thought it connects you to the lobby if you do try that 01:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] oh. i thought it connects you to the lobby if you try that 01:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] can someoe follow me and hear if they also have double hooking sound? 07:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> The bot is called Konsti 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Im 'corneum no, the bot called "maps.ddnet.tw" is the one for maps.ddnet.tw 09:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] mine is called "downloader" I think 09:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Im 'corneum the source is here: https://github.com/heinrich5991/libtw2/blob/master/downloader/src/main.rs 10:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] a teeworlds server cant host its on http map server? 10:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] and theres no way to upload their own maps to maps.ddnet.tw? 10:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ZombieToad you can send it to us 🙂 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] will you accept 100MB map? :D 10:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] why is it 100MB? 10:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] i havent made it yet 10:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] but why does it need 100MB? ^^ 10:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] lots of embedded memes 10:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] ^^ 10:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] and nsfw 11:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] 10 yrs to download 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] :q 11:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] w/c 11:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I stole dozens of maps from heinrich index 11:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] wanna make up for that by sending me your downloadedmaps folder? 🙂 11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> if u want 11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] sure 11:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> but there are a lot of test mals also 11:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's ok if you're fine with them perhaps landing on the map list 11:32 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Where to send u 11:33 <+bridge> [ddnet] upload it to a hoster (like solidfiles.com) and send me the link 11:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> when u are already done in uploading maps u could also apply my Fix :O 11:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/440809674057449474/GetSpeed2.map 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> this folder is 2,3gb @heinrich5991 xd 11:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's cool 🙂 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> HMM 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/440811451662336000/Bildschirmfoto_2018-05-01_11-44-09.png 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> so slow 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> xD 11:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] :ww: 11:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> k i zip it now 11:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] you could've zipped it immediately. 😛 11:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] before copying ^^ 11:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> xD ye i see it now 11:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> but i wanted to be safe 12:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] virus.exe.map 12:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> HMM 12:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] no u 12:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> this.will.totally.not.harm.your.computer.exe 12:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye there will be troll maps there 12:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] ye there will be troll maps in that folder 12:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @worstwish ur maps? :GWcentralCHOCO: 12:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] :GWtloLaugh: 12:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] :GWsplUwu: 12:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @heinrich5991 the download prepares some time, dont press on the advertisement :troll: 12:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] … 12:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> ? 12:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> just saying that there could be advertisement 12:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea ok ^^ 12:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sehr geehrter Benutzer, 12:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] Wir haben bemerkt, dass Sie einen Werbeblocker benutzen. 12:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] jdownloader it is? 12:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> no its transfernow :thonkery: 12:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @deen showall message is back :feelsbadman: 12:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] @deen @Learath2 https://github.com/ddnet/ddnet/pull/1091#issuecomment-385644076 thoughts? 12:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> unfix it for everywhere O: 12:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> heinrich did u get the maps 13:18 <+Learath2> heinrich5991: guess having it two ways doesnt make much sense 13:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Ryozuki cool forum 13:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] but 13:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://gyazo.com/30094118d042be9fe9246f5bf0fa623d 13:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ᶰ°Konͧsti yea, got it 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> HMM 13:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm? 13:50 <@heinrich5991> Learath2: the idea would be that you can fix it in old maps in the code and if you change the map, you don't have to change the source 13:51 <+Learath2> how about a global cfg with crc, bug pairs? 13:51 <@heinrich5991> that's essentially what this is? 13:51 <+Learath2> we don't have to edit the source to fix maps and we can fix maps without changing the old maps 13:52 <@heinrich5991> but then we'd have the centralization problem that deen mentioned (?) 13:52 <@heinrich5991> i.e. you can't fix maps without updating the global config 13:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> the physics should be the same on every map.. 13:53 <+Learath2> too late for that 13:54 <+Learath2> heinrich5991: hmm, I feel editing the source for a map fix feels meh 13:56 <+Learath2> lets just remove Binary and call it a day :P 14:02 <@heinrich5991> Learath2: backward compatibility \o/ 14:02 <@heinrich5991> do you feel it? :P 14:03 <+Learath2> hmm, we enable mapbug on a map in the source, someone doesn't want to on their server, what do? 14:03 <@heinrich5991> we do it for backward-compatibility 14:04 <@heinrich5991> if they want it without the bug, change the map ever so slightly, so that the crc changes 14:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I like Learaths idea of fixing it by deleting Binary :troll: 14:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] we should apply the same idea on getspeed 2 :thonkery: 14:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :GWchadThonkery: 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> This is how qshar and kamillentee fix things on KoG 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> if something is bugged they just delete it 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> cuz lazy :troll: 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :danAmazing: 14:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] :wtf: 14:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Its true 14:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> xd 14:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> "Its not an insult if its true :GWchadThonkery: " 14:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] "it's not an insult if it's true" – not particularly true 15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Calling a retard a retard is rude but not an insult :GWchadThonkery: 15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] xD 15:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insult 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] literally the second sentence 15:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] *third 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] then every truth is a insult 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] if i want it to be a insult 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] _may_ be factual 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @noby nobo 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> its a fact 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :troll: :troll: :troll: 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] ik 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] i mean 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] idk 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] HMM 15:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> HMM 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] ❓ 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] [8:04 AM] Im 'corneum: then every truth is a insult 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] i was replying t o that 15:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ᶰ°Konͧsti no u 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> no u 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] truth hurts most 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> jao is a fag :feelsbadman: 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] rq 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] the truth is that botters keep botting 15:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] why banned 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] in Konsti 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] konsti banned? 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] konsti is hates 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] #join-leave 15:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] konsti is haters 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] what a random ban. but its ok for me ;P 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] why ban 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] jao got pissed because he called him a f** 15:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's konsti 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] ban because insulting is not OK 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] and I told him many times before 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] might as well ban his secondary account on here 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] as long as they don't talk 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] whatever 15:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] ban @FluffiexD too 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] can you take talking permission instead? 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] ban half of this server, its friendly family server 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's about insulting others 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] you're welcome to use any words if you don't direct them at others 15:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] even nigger faggot? 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 you also have to understand there may be friendly "insults" between friends 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] banters 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] or idk how to say iot 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] the insulted may come to me and get the other person unbanned if you want 15:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] that should take care of that 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] @konsti you are a fag 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Ha:feelsamazingman: 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] thing is you can ban half of the server for such light insults (including learath 😏) 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] if a admin does it, its allowed 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] He isn't insulted so I could say this 15:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] Sorry for the bad language tho 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] botting is haram 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] i am true muslim 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] can insults go to people who arent on this server? 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] No 15:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] unless it's a public figure or something, no 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] and even then 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] no rabble-rousing then 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] ? 15:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] volksverhetzung 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] yea, don't do things that are illegal? 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] 💊 15:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] redpilled 15:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] But to be serious I am more irritated by useless discussion by for example Lola then swearing from konsti. 15:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] you mean on the forum? 15:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] literaly anywhere lola posts 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] ^ 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] either this discord is 99% quiet or people insult/talk trash most of the time. what do u prefer 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] While it better be quite 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] I like the part where people don't insult. I also see that 15:21 <+bridge> [ddnet] what is there to discuss anywhere? 15:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] what to you get from a quiet server? 15:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] Useless discussion about changed physics, no map releases bad map releases and everything that is about complaining to moderators/admins 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] i dont think the trashtalk is bad. 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't think insults is what gets people to come to discord ^^ 15:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] what do you get from a quiet server? 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] Trashtalk is not bad, if it is used in #off-topic just like this. Nothing to do with development xd 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok lets try to keep everything insulting out for a week or so and see if it’s better 15:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] as long as there is no other discussion going on, i think trashtalk is okay on every channel 15:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] and its not like u choose where to start the chat. it just develops 15:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] well serious discussion won’t start if something else is going on 15:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] 15:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293493549758939136/440866443341332498/b2.png 15:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] … 15:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Im 'corneum well like Learath2 should read everything here to see if something important was posted. And have to filter everything out :0 15:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] disturbing a serious discussion counts as insult @noby 🍌 15:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] no u 15:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] i can count some peoples existance as an insult to humanity. 15:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] if something is important, you should ping learath or report on github/forum 15:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] can’t expect anyone do go through all messages anyway 15:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] can’t expect anyone to go through all messages anyway 15:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] I actually do go through most everything on #developer 15:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] i would prefer if you would read intern channels instead 😪 15:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] i can do it if you give me access 😛 15:42 <+Learath2> I read those aswell 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Im 'corneum good that nobody knows who my second account is :feelsbadman: 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @Im 'corneum good that nobody knows who my second account is :feelsgoodman: 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] like 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] does it matter if a banned person can view the chat? 15:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] no – it's public 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> then why ban 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] you read and then ignore it 🙃 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> instead of giveng a muted role 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] there's a button for ban? 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] 🙂 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> there is also a button for creating role 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] giving muted role takes as much clicks 15:44 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes, one level deeper 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] you don’t need to create it, it’s already there 😮 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's easier for others to keep track of 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] #join-leave 🙂 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just don't enjoy interacting with you tbh 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> rude 15:45 <+bridge> [ddnet] you know what is ridiculous? ^^ 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> u 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :troll: 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] people complaining about people banning to quickly 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] and then 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ᶰ°Konͧsti it's not fun talking with someone who hates you 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] suggesting to ban for a lot weaker things 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> i suggest dont care about words 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> words cant hurt anyone 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] you think I hate you? 15:46 <+bridge> [ddnet] exactly my feelings 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] words can hurt people 🙂 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> no 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] k 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> unless ure not mentally disabled 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> unless ure mentally disabled 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] words don't change anything, actions do 15:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can't possibly change anything about your life with anything I say 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> except ure lawyer 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> xd 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 really? you can't motivate someone to code more? 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] e.g. 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] or encourage people to do stuff? 15:48 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's ultimately your choice to do it, what I say is irrelevant 15:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> lol, i discouraged u changing physics but u didnt care 15:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I don't think that's true 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can call you lazy and you can take that comment to heart and do something about it, or you don't and do nothing about it, which is the same state we were at before I said anything 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can encourage people to panic by yelling fire in a crowded space 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :troll: 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 learath insults me on here pls ban him 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] he calls me an ass 15:50 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> on noby fng u wont get banned for no matter what u say unless ure tagging @noby in einem deutschen Satz 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] do not bend my words, I never called you an ass 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] `***konsti has been muted for 10 seconds` 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :feelsbadman: 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] i cant remember what u called me but i remember seeing a donkey picture yesterday 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] i still dont ban for chat things 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> u banned ShootXen for keep tagging u one time :troll: 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] lol rly 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] @snail will remember what @Learath2 calls me 15:51 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> deen called me an ass :feelsamazingman: 15:52 <+bridge> [ddnet] if so it was probably for like 1min xd 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 would you accept any scientific evidence as to that words do change stuff or is it a believe like "I believe that humans have a free will in a way that will never be influenced by the outside and science can't get in the way of that"? 15:54 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 would you accept any scientific evidence as to that words do change stuff or is it a belief like "I believe that humans have a free will in a way that will never be influenced by the outside and science can't get in the way of that"? 15:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can't possibly imagine an experiment where you can judge that 15:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] (note that I haven't searched for that kind of experiment) 15:55 <+bridge> [ddnet] so it's the latter 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think learath is unable to relate to others emotions/feelings 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] If I see such an experiment, sure I'm not going to argue against science 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] well 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] but you might not be able to construct one is my point 15:56 <+bridge> [ddnet] if it's something that cannot be determined by science 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] then it's unscientific (that's trying to be factual, this only seems to discredit it because we view "unscientific" = "bad") I think 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] science basically means "observing things" 15:57 <+bridge> [ddnet] and if there's no experiment that can conclude whether a theory is true or false, then it is basically useless in the realm of science 15:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] Just because I can't imagine an experiment doesn't mean there can't be an experiment. I can't imagine an experiment that proves chirality doesn't matter either but people much smarter then me came up with one. 15:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] but the thing is 15:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] even before searching for an experiment 15:58 <+bridge> [ddnet] you give yourself a good excuse to not accept it if it goes against your beliefs 15:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] what is my excuse? The experiment can very well be invalid 15:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] am I supposed to accept every claim that comes from a peer reviewed paper? 15:59 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] so. what do you quantifiably mean by "words don't hurt" 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think words change actions and can go as far as make people dead that wouldn't be if it weren't for these words 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think words can change actions and can go as far as make people dead that wouldn't be if it weren't for these words 16:00 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean if a word hurts you it's because you want to get hurt by it, as my words can't possibly change anything in your life 16:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] you phrase it like an axiom 16:01 <+bridge> [ddnet] it sounds a bit like circular reasoning. a word can't hurt because a word can't hurt 16:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] my theory is: I think words can hurt, because I think words can change actions (we could experimentally check that) and e.g. make people dead who otherwise wouldn't be 16:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] so my claim has a verifiable claim in it 16:02 <+bridge> [ddnet] so my claim has a verifiable statement in it 16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] i can help experiment 16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 go kill yourself fat cunt 16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'll go get some ropoe 16:03 <+bridge> [ddnet] I'll go get some rope 16:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] you will need really thick rope 16:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ZombieToad telling people to kill themselves is not OK and will not be tolerated 16:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] i didnt say that 16:04 <+bridge> [ddnet] ur lying 16:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] and don't go offtopic, we're having a discussion here 😉 16:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 my point is words can at most change your state of mind but I also believe they can only change your mind if you allow them to 16:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] but making fun of it is okay @heinrich5991 ? 16:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] there 16:05 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 so they can change people's actions? and they will change some people's actions? 16:06 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Who cares about dead people 16:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> they cant know 16:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's not the words fault though, It's the person who takes them too seriously. Sure I wouldn't say stupid things around someone that is in a vulnerable state, but that doesn't mean that the words themselves are inherently bad 16:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] at most, I could be a bad person 16:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] 👌 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] but if we can observe that words can change what people do 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think we should do a #philosphy channel 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] @jao 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] and therefore hurt them. which we can scientifically observe 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] i think we should do a #philosophy channel 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] without assigning blame to who's "at fault" 16:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] we can see that 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's not the words themselves hurting the person, it's the context and me as a person hurting them 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Hating people for their skin color my right :O 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 there's not really a "cause" of gravitation 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's not the fault of the big body for having mass 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] or the fault of the small body of having mass 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's the whole system that creates gravitational force 16:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ᶰ°Konͧsti and dismissing your opinion because it's undiscussable is my right 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> I dont like fat people too 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] let's view our situation neutrally, @Learath2 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> :feelsbadman: 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Freedom of speech ded 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] link to relevant xkcd, @ᶰ°Konͧsti 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] you can do wathever u want while it doesnt affect another 16:10 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 you can't define the concept of "hurt" "bad" "good" but you can define gravity very well 16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] I can define "hurt" 16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can define hurt biologically 16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] hurt can be physically or emotionally, but you can scientifically observe both 16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] u can define hurt in a biological manner 16:11 <+bridge> [ddnet] also you can blame the fabric of spacetime for gravity if you really want to blame someone, but placing blame in that case does not change anything 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's my point 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] we want to view the situation neutrally 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] without assigning blame 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] ok? 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] or I want to, right now 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] can we do that? 🙂 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mean sure but my perspective very much relies on that fact so I doubt I can argue for it without it 16:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] "fact" 16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] no one is "at fault" in the universe 16:13 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's a people thing 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] So you think every word is inherently good/bad/hurtful? 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's a good exercise too, btw 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] neutral 16:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] understanding your "opponent"'s argument good enough that they'd agree with the statement after you paraphrase it 16:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think your statement is: words can't be good or bad, because you view the persons involved as having "free will" which means they can do whatever they want, without relying on any outside influence, because they're not bound by any words" 16:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think your statement is: words can't be good or bad, because you view the persons involved as having "free will" which means they can do whatever they want, without relying on any outside influence, because they're not bound by any words 16:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's it 16:16 <+bridge> [ddnet] now we try to get you to a point where you can paraphrase my point? 😛 16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] so, we try to view the situation neutrally 16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] without assigning blame 16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] You are technically arguing that people don't really have "free will" 16:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] no 16:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's not the start of my argument 16:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] we're observing the situation 16:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] so we get that people can change actions based on words 16:18 <+bridge> [ddnet] or that words are so powerful that they can influence your free will 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] and that people can get emotionally hurt by words 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] we can see that, without saying who's at fault for that 16:19 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's their choice to do so 16:20 <+bridge> [ddnet] It's very much my choice to take @ZombieToad's advice to heart or not 16:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] but I don't want to assign blame 🙂 16:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just want to observe what happens when words are spoken 16:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] and you're saying who the cause of the thing is 16:22 <+bridge> [ddnet] but that's not what I want to do. that's not really something I can define or experimentally find out 16:23 <+bridge> [ddnet] I had the choice of doing x or y before the words were spoken and I have the same choice after, the only thing it could have changed is which one I'm thinking to go for 16:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] yet you still have the "free will" to go for either 16:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] did anything actually change? 16:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] why are you unwilling to temporarily let go of assigning whose at blame? ^^ 16:24 <+bridge> [ddnet] I didn't assign any blame 16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] responsibility 16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] whatever 16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] no responsibility either 16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] the person is the only thing responsible for their actions 16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] I just told you the state before and after a function, and asked whether anything changed 16:25 <+bridge> [ddnet] is what you're saying 16:27 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually my argument is indefensible without pointing fingers, no point in arguing for it @heinrich5991 16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] I agree that words can "hurt" you in a world where responsibility and blame doesn't matter (and quite possibly "free will" can't really exist) 16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] so when one removes the people saying those hurtful words, one reduces hurt 16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> @heinrich5991 is it fixed on ddnet, that a tee can spawn on the other side of a block if the spawn i in a corner? 16:28 <+bridge> [ddnet] and this is what I'm arguing for 16:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] @ᶰ°Konͧsti I don't know that bug 😮 16:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> lol 16:29 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> Idk if it were every a thing on ddnet but it works on infclass for example 16:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] hm 16:30 <+bridge> [ddnet] but imho it's the opposite, when you give the people back their free will, actually it should decrease hurt 16:31 <+bridge> [ddnet] if someones brain is deterministic and you manipulate it's state with your words you have unarguably hurt them 16:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] blame, responsibility and free will are the only things that make this discussion interesting otherwise it's fact 16:34 <+bridge> [ddnet] but what is "free will"? 16:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] I mostly value things that I can observe in some way 16:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] things or explanations 16:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] you don't value your free will? 16:35 <+bridge> [ddnet] don't you think that "you"(whatever consciousness is) are the one making the decisions? 16:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] well, what does "making decisions" mean? ^^ 16:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] I try to stay off arguments that have no foundation in things that one can observe 16:36 <+bridge> [ddnet] but you can't just discard things that make you human and then just add them back in as if they don't change anything 16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I completely 100% agree that without free-will, words do hurt people 16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] I completely 100% agree that without free-will, words can/ hurt people 16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] stupid sed replacement thing 16:37 <+bridge> [ddnet] ^^ 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] yes. that's the different start points of us two, apparently 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] we all should stop existing 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] so we dont hurt anyone 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] nothing can happen 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's not nihilism day 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] best solution 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] xddd 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] that's tomorrow 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] yeah 16:38 <+bridge> [ddnet] we have to learn how to suicide first 16:39 <+bridge> [ddnet] @heinrich5991 I also do agree that If I say something and someone ends up actually hurt, it's most definitely my fault, no matter my intention 16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] actually hurt = physically hurt? 16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] physically or emotionally hurt 16:40 <+bridge> [ddnet] doesn't change the fact that i'm free to say whatever I want 16:41 <+bridge> [ddnet] it's just that I was irresponsible or had bad intentions if it results in any hurt 16:42 <+bridge> [ddnet] I think everyone should be allowed to say whatever they want and if the majority doesn't want to hear what they are saying that person will just end up being ignored 16:43 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Admin @Moderator what was with me? 16:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] going back to work, @heinrich5991 gimme a highlight if you want to keep going 16:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] @Learath2 I think we're pretty good now 16:47 <+bridge> [ddnet] seems like we understood each other's point 16:49 <+bridge> [ddnet] I guess that's enough 17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] gosh why is the show all mesages soooo long 17:09 <+bridge> [ddnet] what about 5 chars max 17:12 <+bridge> [ddnet] ``showall: ON`` and ``showoll: OFF`would be ok too i guess but these huughe text is confusign af 17:21 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] bors[bot] merged staging into master: https://git.io/vpE8l 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] developers hi! 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> lola sucks 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] u 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> no u 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] no u 20:14 <+bridge> [ddnet] No you 20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] no u 20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] No you 20:15 <+bridge> [ddnet] no u 21:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] wher do you guys see the showall message? 21:07 <+bridge> [ddnet] I tried it and it just shows up once, then not anymore 21:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] Also, hundreds of messages, not reading the rest 21:08 <+bridge> [ddnet] nothing interesting, just a philosophical debate 21:17 <+bridge> [ddnet] <ᶰ°Konͧsti> The showall message also annys this one time 21:17 <@deen> why? 21:17 <@deen> just get it one time 21:25 < ddnet-commits> [ddnet] bors[bot] merged staging into master: https://git.io/vpEQ8