00:02 < coffee> because there is no map for this mod
00:02 < coffee> i made infzthecave
00:03 < coffee> and zbskycraft
00:03 < coffee> bb good luck in your hosting
00:03 < Muttley> ty
00:03 < Muttley> cya
02:16 <@deen> oops, coffee left already
02:17 <@deen> some brazilians want me to stop running block and infection servers. Don't understand the reasons though: "the reason is about our delicate our players' situation."
02:52 < eeeee> if you drop the ' then it's possible to parse as (the reason is about (our delicate (our players) situation)), meaning that they have a pretty delicate situation where all the players belong to them so you can't run any servers
02:55 < eeeee> anyway, /me feels a delicate ddos situation imminent
03:05 <@deen> nah, don't think so
15:36 <@EastByte> hmm translating and understanding spanish texts for classes actually feels like reverse engineering
15:37 < heinrich5991> EastByte: that means that you should probably learn more vocabulary :P
15:38 <@EastByte> it's harder to understand the sense and meaning of the sentence
15:38 <@EastByte> also needs a lot of fantasy
15:58 < heinrich5991> is Spanish a language with lots of implicit stuff?
16:00 <@EastByte> not sure but in my texts for school I often have to fight with not understandable idioms
16:00 <@EastByte> often even the internet doesn't help
16:01 <@EastByte> well I'm a beginner
16:07 <@EastByte> heinrich5991: do you know what's the easiest way to get german and spanish special characters using us keyboard layout?
16:08 < heinrich5991> EastByte: which OS do you use?
16:08 <@EastByte> arch linux
16:08 < heinrich5991> then define a compose key
16:08 < heinrich5991> wait a sec
16:08 <@EastByte> what's that?
16:08 < heinrich5991> setxkbmap -option compose:rwin
16:09 < heinrich5991> that makes the right windows key the compose key
16:09 <@EastByte> hm I don't have rwin
16:09 <@EastByte> and lwin is for my windw manager
16:09 < heinrich5991> do you have an easily reachable, but unused key?
16:09 < heinrich5991> maybe caps? ^^
16:09 <@EastByte> ralt I guess
16:09 <@EastByte> or caps
16:09 < heinrich5991> ralt is used for €@ etc. I thought?
16:09 < heinrich5991> not on US keyboard?
16:10 <@EastByte> seems so
16:10 < heinrich5991> well, if not, I'd go for ralt
16:10 <@EastByte> setxkbmap -option compose:ralt
16:10 <@EastByte> hm did something happen?
16:11 <@EastByte> when I press ralt I have to press a key for three times to appear on the screen
16:11 <@EastByte> ah
16:11 <@EastByte> ff
16:11 <@EastByte> got on
16:11 <@EastByte> e
16:11 < heinrich5991> then you can press <compose>, ", a for ä
16:11 <@EastByte> ä
16:11 <@EastByte> yay
16:12 < heinrich5991> somehow it's not working for me :(
16:12 < heinrich5991> ä
16:12 < heinrich5991> ah
16:12 <@EastByte> yöy
16:12 <@EastByte> hm
16:12 < BeaR_> ä, praise the german keybord \o/
16:12 < heinrich5991> ï
16:12 <@EastByte> í
16:12 < heinrich5991> try to do that on your German keyboard
16:12 <@EastByte> aha
16:12 < heinrich5991> ı
16:12 <@EastByte> á
16:12 < heinrich5991> ¡
16:12 <@EastByte> spanish = compose,',a
16:13 < heinrich5991> ¿
16:13 < heinrich5991> don't you also need these inverted question marks? <compose>, ?, ?
16:13 <@EastByte> yea
16:13 <@EastByte> also exclamation mark
16:13 <@EastByte> ¡
16:14 <@EastByte> ¡Yo lo quiero!
16:14 < heinrich5991> does that mean "hello"? _)
16:14 < heinrich5991> :)
16:14 < heinrich5991> ☺
16:14 < heinrich5991> (lol)
16:14 <@EastByte> it means "ich mag das"
16:15 < heinrich5991> <compose>, :, ) gives a smiley
16:15 <@EastByte> ☺
16:15 <@EastByte> ☹
16:15 < BeaR_> lol
16:15 < heinrich5991> can't read those, too small
16:16 <@EastByte> ñ
16:16 <@EastByte> ah neat
16:16 <@EastByte> although it takes quite long to type
16:21 < heinrich5991> ñ
16:21 < heinrich5991> if you know how to, you can do it quite fast
16:21 <@EastByte> three keys for one char
16:21 <@EastByte> not sure
16:22 < heinrich5991> ññññññññññññññññññññññ
16:23 <@EastByte> huh?
16:23 < heinrich5991> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
16:23 < heinrich5991> that's fifteen seconds of typing, each
16:23 <@EastByte> ^^
16:24 <@EastByte> as you can see, not that fast
16:24 < heinrich5991> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
16:24 < heinrich5991> capital letters aren't as fast either
16:27 < BeaR_> "0.7 will be released in 2015" heh nice \o/
16:27 < heinrich5991> where?
16:27 < BeaR_> https://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=112944#p112944 oy's signature
16:28 <@EastByte> wut
16:30 <@EastByte> hm 0.7 probably won't get many players
16:30 < BeaR_> due to ddnet?
16:32 <@EastByte> due to the current player base
16:32 <@EastByte> they mostly stick to mods and don't like the new interface and skinsystem at all
16:33 <@EastByte> and ddnet might die before mergin to 0.7
16:33 <@EastByte> it's too much work
16:34 < BeaR_> well yeah, the current 0.7 master branch doesn't have some sort of 'unique selling point' unfortunatly
16:38 <@EastByte> vanilla teeworlds simply will be of version 0.7
16:38 <@EastByte> mods keep staying at 0.6
16:38 <@EastByte> and ddnet might becom an own game
16:40 < Learath2> thats what was said for 0.6
16:41 < Learath2> noone will play etc
16:41 <@EastByte> yea I know
16:42 <@EastByte> it took only about a year for 0.6 to get the number of players/servers back
16:45 <@EastByte> I think it was a little bit different back then
16:45 <@EastByte> the playerbase wasn't directed to ddrace/block/instagib only
16:46 <@EastByte> there barely is one vanilla clan left
16:49 < heinrich5991> will it be the python 3? :P
16:49 <@EastByte> probably^^
16:52 <@EastByte> an identification system still would be awesome
16:52 <@EastByte> real benefit for mods
16:54 < heinrich5991> is it?
16:54 < heinrich5991> for ranks maybe
16:54 <@EastByte> and accounts
16:54 < heinrich5991> yea. and people will ban by account :(
16:55 <@EastByte> nothing stops you from generating new identities^^
16:55 < heinrich5991> (given the unreasonable bans I have seen, I don't like this. for people who want to get around it, it's trivial, and honest people keep being banned)
16:56 <@EastByte> it doesn't benefit banning
16:57 <@EastByte> but I like the fact that you can prove to be the real one
16:58 <@EastByte> hm my argument isn't that strong
17:00 < heinrich5991> if people can ban by account, they will
17:00 < heinrich5991> and then you'll be permanently locked out until you choose to make a new identity, where everybody has to add you again
17:02 <@EastByte> banned in one server
17:02 < heinrich5991> yes. like ddracemax
17:02 < heinrich5991> or single servers hosting other mods
17:02 <@EastByte> I gues identification will be client->client and optional client->server
17:03 < heinrich5991> that's a suggestion, and I like it. however it needs to be implemented like that, I don't think that's the only way a possible account system would work out
17:04 < heinrich5991> it could also be managed by the server completely, like the names
17:04 <@EastByte> ^ doesn't sound decentral
17:04 <@EastByte> "A really lightweight version is just to do a player identification system using crypto keys and this doesn't require any extra servers at all."
17:05 < heinrich5991> yea, and who's responsible for exchanging these keys? probably the game server you're currently on
17:05 <@EastByte> I thought about a raw datastream over server
17:06 <@EastByte> and the server shouldn't be able to influence the auth
17:06 <@EastByte> meh
17:07 <@EastByte> won't work actually
17:07 <@EastByte> (mitm and stuff)
17:10 <@EastByte> http://13x37.com/showthread.php?tid=166
17:10 <@EastByte> again a new alternate client is being developed
17:10 <@EastByte> that guy really wanted to add ads ingame to finance his developement
17:12 < heinrich5991> why not?
17:14 <@deen> ads are disgusting
17:14 <@EastByte> it's a really simple opensource game and people are writing client modifications with cheats/hacks license systems backdoors and ads
17:14 <@EastByte> yea why not
17:14 <@EastByte> it's quite normal, like 40gbit/s ddos :)
17:14 < coffee> why not
17:15 < coffee> ADS + DDOS in same world
17:15 < coffee> it sounds like a dream
17:15 <@deen> looks like it's based on ddnet client
17:15 <@EastByte> you sure?
17:15 <@deen> colored ping, colored gametype, 64 player
17:16 <@deen> any other client has those?
17:16 <@EastByte> well where did you get it from?^^
17:16 <@deen> i made colored ping myself
17:16 <@deen> colored gametype was a pull request to ddnet
17:17 <@EastByte> okay
17:17 <@deen> and 64 player is from eeeee and fisted, but needed many fixes, so I doubt they took the old ddwar64 and fixed everything by hand^^
17:17 <@EastByte> right
17:18 <@EastByte> well in the end binary we would find hints to the ddnet client anyways
17:18 <@EastByte> we'll see then
17:18 < heinrich5991> colored pings were in gamer client too (not that this thing would be based off that)
17:19 <@deen> it's not that easy to read a single character on posix from scratch
17:19 <@deen> https://gist.github.com/def-/58c3374c23f120e31872
17:19 <@EastByte> from posix?
17:19 <@EastByte> on*
17:19 <@deen> yes, i'm only using posix functions
17:20 <@deen> no ncurses or any library
17:20 < heinrich5991> why no library?
17:20 <@deen> i don't think you should need a library just to read a character
17:21 <@deen> and I'll try to get the code into the nim standard library now
17:21 < heinrich5991> well, it assumes an interactive terminal
17:21 < heinrich5991> which is probably why you can't read it easily with posix functions
19:16 < eeeee> heinrich5991: i get your argument about banning, but how is that different from the current situation
19:17 < heinrich5991> eeeee: that people usually have dynamic IP addresses
19:17 < eeeee> still "honest" people wouldn't exploit that to reconnect
19:17 < eeeee> and "tricky" people will, but that's kinda same case with accounts
19:17 < heinrich5991> nah
19:17 < heinrich5991> you get a new IP address after one day anyway
19:17 < heinrich5991> so max ban time is one day, roughly
19:18 < heinrich5991> the difference of accounts is that you probably want to keep yours because you connected to lots of friends and stuff
19:19 < eeeee> that might be true but as a solution for that problem you're suggesting that nobody should have friends
19:19 < eeeee> also note how a centralized account server could possibly be a solution
19:20 < eeeee> (by only sending you a list of your friends who are connected as opposed to all players)
19:20 < eeeee> so that server can't know if a particular player is connected unless server is his friend somehow
19:20 < eeeee> not sure how to implement decentralized
19:23 < eeeee> btw since you're a vanilla guy y u no tell oy about your concerns? i don't have high hopes for vanilla accounts but if you can make sure they're usable for ddnet-like usecases that would be great.
19:26 < heinrich5991> eeeee: it's not possible to reach oy for anything unfortunately
19:26 < heinrich5991> I tried to reach him via e-mail, still waiting for response
19:26 < eeeee> :/
19:26 < heinrich5991> he's also not commenting on the issues I create
19:42 <@EastByte> hm since ddnet has a really big playerbase and an autoupdated client we should have made some crypt/signing identification system for the client just for testing
19:42 <@EastByte> to give oy some results
19:42 <@deen> don't experiment on ddnet player base for science!
19:42 <@EastByte> for science!!!
19:43 <@deen> who wants to participate in GSoC for Nim?!
19:43 <@EastByte> do we have to learn nim for that?
19:43 <@deen> (I'm currently writing the list of project ideas)
19:44 <@deen> yes, would be nice if you know some nim :P
19:44 <@EastByte> nimby nim
19:44 <@deen> some projects would be rather easy i think
19:44 <@EastByte> did nim get into GSoC?
19:45 <@deen> not yet, I'm working on that
19:45 <@deen> deadline is Feb. 20
19:48 <@EastByte> good luck
20:00 <@deen> https://github.com/Araq/Nim/wiki/GSoC-2015-Ideas
20:19 < xRoThx> deen:  You there? 
20:20 <@deen> hi
20:35 < xRoThx> deen:  I will soon have a server that I should test 
20:36 <@deen> huh?
20:37 < xRoThx> Its to test if its stable & good enough for hosting gameservers
20:38 < xRoThx> It would be located @ Belgium
20:38 < xRoThx> Perfect EU Server for a month?
20:39 <@deen> what for?
20:41 < xRoThx> I should need to test it, to be sure its safe & stable for TW
20:41 < xRoThx> So wanted to let DDNet test it for a month? If you agree? 
20:42 <@deen> instead of GER?
20:42 < xRoThx> Not instead
20:42 < xRoThx> As extra
20:43 <@deen> adding an extra server always causes problems
20:43 <@deen> i just shut down GER2 again^^
20:43 < xRoThx> Why? ^^
20:43 < xRoThx> GER2 Was backup of GER right? 
20:43 <@deen> because you can't save on EUR and load on GER
20:44 <@deen> and afterwards everyone comes complaining when the server is gone again
20:44 <@deen> because they had 5 ms better ping or something
20:44 < xRoThx> :P 
20:44 <@deen> and it's a lot of work to setup
20:44 <@deen> i don't understand why i need to test it if it's just for a month
20:44 < xRoThx> So you don't agree on testing BEL for 1 month
20:44 <@deen> i don't understand the reason
20:44 < xRoThx> Its Perfect between GER & FR? ^^
20:45 < xRoThx> Testing purposes
20:45 <@deen> we don't have french players
20:45 < xRoThx> Alright
20:45 <@deen> More players from Poland and Russia than from France
20:46 <@deen> (on GER, even though we have RUS already)
20:47 < xRoThx> No problem 
20:49 < eeeee> i've heard dota has the same problem. even though russians have their own server, they still prefer to join and troll european servers
20:49 <@deen> russians aren't trolling on ddnet^^
20:49 < eeeee> yet :D